BYOND account: BurgerBB
Character name: Marcus Burgs
Admin in question: Jroinc1
When did it take place: November 19th, 2019, 6:46PM
Round ID in which ban was placed: 2019]
Evidence: Check admin logs. I couldn't screenshot everything in time.
Your side of the story:
Marines were loosing on the ground. Specialists, medics, and engineers were getting killed and/or captured. We couldn't even push past north of nexus because we were getting destroyed by aged T2s and T3s. They had a queen so it was extra hard to push. We were eventually pushed back into central nexus where we couldn't really do anything.
The field commander ordered a retreat, forseeing the destruction of the FOB and the slaughtering of marines. They made the right call because as soon as we evaced, they breached the FOB with the crusher and boiler they had. What then followed was a 30 minute waiting period because the xenos refused to go on the ship because they thought no marines died, and an admin bussed in a human dressed in a xeno costume and did some pretty memey things for them. The field commander wasn't willing to go down because there were only a few marines ready (there were a lot who were SSD or new players who were shooting at walls), there was an adminbussed human down there and wasn't sure what was going to happen, and the fact that the FOB was absolutely destroyed. I ahelped "Hey I don't mean to be a wet blanket but a lot of people aren't willing to wait 30 minutes for something to happen." referencing the xeno that was spawned and insisted that they weren't do anything to impede the xenos, then insisted that them impeding the xenos wasn't actually impeding, then insisted that xenos weren't going up because no one took any casualties, then insisted that they only took one casualty according to "suit sensors". Surprisingly, they did not change their stance when shown the corpse of someone who was off suit sensors and someone who explained to them that suit sensors isn't a reliable way of calculating how many marines have died. They still refused to listen to the evidence that more than one marine died, so I asked them to close the ticket because this conversation was going nowhere.
The admin then proceeded to teleport the xenomorphs into the east hanger, literally the best place for xenos to camp because of the 1 tile wide hallways. There wasn't a crash or anything, just a teleportation and then a late announcement saying that there were invaders on the ship in the west port. Marines were instantly steamrolled because they had a prea, a crusher, and a queen. An admin then made fun of the marines for trying to engage the xenomorphs from bad positions and mocked them for not using plasma cutters. People other than me in dead chat then questioned the admin's decision to bus a winning side, and the admin continued to insist that only one marine died despite other people saying that they died on the ground and that they saw several other players die and get captured.
On discord it was worse. They started acting exceptionally passive aggressive, telling people to make a complaint but "I don't think it will go anywhere.", telling people who are criticizing them to "go make an admin application", and saying personally "I don't listen to you." and "I don't listen to users aggressively trying to force me to do things." despite no one doing such thing, and even if, not a valid reason to ignore evidence that you had the wrong idea of the round.
https://i.imgur.com/wpmyxOk.png
This is piss-poor behavior, especially the discord part. They refuse to admit that maybe they fucked up and ignored everyone who told them that maybe they shouldn't have done that. I do not look forward to playing future rounds on TGMC if an admin pretty much cheats in a xenomorph victory and refuses to admit that it was an issue despite players telling them that the reason for them cheating was not very solid.
[COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
Moderators: In-Game Head Admins, In-Game Admin, Game Server Operators, TGMC Game Server Operators, TGMC Administrator, TGMC Lead
61 posts
• Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2
- BurgerBB
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:22 am
[COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by BurgerBB » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:05 am
#524766
- JPR
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:19 am
- Byond Username: Jroinc1
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by JPR » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:55 am
#524777
So, here's how my round went, roughly.
I joined and observed. I try to do that every round I admin. I spent the first half of the round messing with buildmode and seeing how importing structures worked, in a way that didn't affect the round.
Once I built a thing centered roughly around the log cabin north of the LZ, I spawned in a role as a xeno RSR. He had RSR equipment, a xenosuit and helmet (no armor, 10 anti-hug), and a xenohud. Offered it up to ghosts with the instruction to go observe and not attack xenos. That happened.
Once I set that up, I noticed that marines had lost planetside and headed up shipside. I ignored it, as that sort of stuff happens in a round.
The guy playing the RSR RP'd with the xenos and marines some, and then decided to leave (told me, and I deleted him once he was out of sight).
About this time, I started getting PM's from Burger. His tone varied from condescending to extremely aggressive while I answered him, more-or-less accusing me of delaying the round via adminbussing in order to get the xenos a victory.
We discussed the relative numbers, as well as why the xenos weren't coming up. I pointed out to him that very few humans had died.
Via suit sensors, there was one dead marine planetside. Via the follow dead section, there APPEARED to be one dead person, the bravo (flamer) spec. MJP says that he was dead near the base of the LZ, and he may have been because the follow dead section shows all the colonists, making it difficult to find every marine. Regardless, I saw 2 total bodies dead planetside checking inside all domes and the path back to LZ1(one had landed on the shuttle and been dragged off as I counted).
I told burger what I saw on suit sensors and he flipped his shit at me about how they don't read dead/infected/nested people. I'm not supposed to tell him what I see as an aghost, as that's OOC info to an ingame role. He got extremely upset and more-or-less ragequit the ahelp.
I then took a look at the situation. The marines had sent the Alamo down in a "fishing" attempt (get some ayys in, drop the shutters, call it up before the queen can unlock with her long cooldown), and had just launched it back up. There were ROUGHLY 23 marines VS 7 ayys. This could be "even", but when I looked around the ship, I saw mined plasteel barricades 3 deep with razorwire emplacements guarding medbay, and a group of about 10 marines with camo tarps gathered together next to the Alamo, yet showing no signs of boarding the Alamo.
I then offered the Hive a choice- They could either go up via Alamo and cause some damage when they hit the ship in exchange for their landing place being known and rushed (hyperspace ripples show where the ship lands far ahead of time), or they could be silently teleported aboard, causing zero damage but retaining the element of surprise.
The queen chose the teleport option, and I looked at engineering, but there was a MT in it. Working along the outer hull of the ship to the left, the next open place I came to was the left shuttle dock, so I teleported them there. I then prepped a command announcement to warn the marines about their presence, and announced it the instant any human could have seen any alien.
Marines engaged the Aliens in the Medbay service alleys and took heavy casualties due to trying to attack a crusher and a prae in a series of 1 and 2 tile rooms. I saw a plasma cutter in req, so I made an announcement to remind marines that it existed and is an effective way of leveling the playing field. I'm sorry you took it as an insult, but it was intended as genuine strategic advice, though I don't think anyone acted on it.
By this time, dchat was slowly filling up, so I spawned in a 1-5 man random ERT which rolled freelancer. They did their thing... I ahealed then moderately hurt a synth that both had a weird bug and was stuck in permacrit (probably shouldn't have done that, but synths in crit won't heal or die on their own and can delay the round by virtue of being impossible to find).
Once the marines died off to the 3 living ayys, EORG started and the discord shitstorm started. All the messages are still there, but I'm going to mention the ones he quoted.
I told him that if he didn't like what I did to go make a complaint and posted the link after. This is SOP, more or less.
I also told him I don't think it'll go anywhere. I still don't, because I don't believe I did anything majorly wrong.
I also mentioned that if "you" want to do my job, make an admin app. This still holds true. If you think you can do my job better, go for it.
I mentioned that I don't listen to you (Burger). I don't. If you have an admin-related question, I'll answer it ingame (You were the one who stopped talking), but I don't really like talking to you outside my required duties as admin. I personally dislike you, but that's not relevant to this situation, nor will it ever be from an administrative point of view.
I mentioned that I don't listen to users aggressively trying to force me to do things. This is 100% true, and is kind of a fault of mine. If someone pushes at me to do something because they're pushy and think that I'm wrong, I check the situation first. If I'm wrong, I adapt. If I'm not wrong, I will not change no matter what you tell me. I'm always willing to listen to additional evidence, but if I get incorrect hearsay while I'm actually aghosted and looking at things, I will 100% ignore the person who has incomplete evidence.
I think you think I'm trying to insult you or pick a fight. I'm not. I made the best call I could based off of the situation ingame.
Was it the right one? Maybe, maybe not. I think so.
Would I do it again given what I knew then and now know? 100%.
I joined and observed. I try to do that every round I admin. I spent the first half of the round messing with buildmode and seeing how importing structures worked, in a way that didn't affect the round.
Once I built a thing centered roughly around the log cabin north of the LZ, I spawned in a role as a xeno RSR. He had RSR equipment, a xenosuit and helmet (no armor, 10 anti-hug), and a xenohud. Offered it up to ghosts with the instruction to go observe and not attack xenos. That happened.
Once I set that up, I noticed that marines had lost planetside and headed up shipside. I ignored it, as that sort of stuff happens in a round.
The guy playing the RSR RP'd with the xenos and marines some, and then decided to leave (told me, and I deleted him once he was out of sight).
About this time, I started getting PM's from Burger. His tone varied from condescending to extremely aggressive while I answered him, more-or-less accusing me of delaying the round via adminbussing in order to get the xenos a victory.
We discussed the relative numbers, as well as why the xenos weren't coming up. I pointed out to him that very few humans had died.
Via suit sensors, there was one dead marine planetside. Via the follow dead section, there APPEARED to be one dead person, the bravo (flamer) spec. MJP says that he was dead near the base of the LZ, and he may have been because the follow dead section shows all the colonists, making it difficult to find every marine. Regardless, I saw 2 total bodies dead planetside checking inside all domes and the path back to LZ1(one had landed on the shuttle and been dragged off as I counted).
I told burger what I saw on suit sensors and he flipped his shit at me about how they don't read dead/infected/nested people. I'm not supposed to tell him what I see as an aghost, as that's OOC info to an ingame role. He got extremely upset and more-or-less ragequit the ahelp.
I then took a look at the situation. The marines had sent the Alamo down in a "fishing" attempt (get some ayys in, drop the shutters, call it up before the queen can unlock with her long cooldown), and had just launched it back up. There were ROUGHLY 23 marines VS 7 ayys. This could be "even", but when I looked around the ship, I saw mined plasteel barricades 3 deep with razorwire emplacements guarding medbay, and a group of about 10 marines with camo tarps gathered together next to the Alamo, yet showing no signs of boarding the Alamo.
I then offered the Hive a choice- They could either go up via Alamo and cause some damage when they hit the ship in exchange for their landing place being known and rushed (hyperspace ripples show where the ship lands far ahead of time), or they could be silently teleported aboard, causing zero damage but retaining the element of surprise.
The queen chose the teleport option, and I looked at engineering, but there was a MT in it. Working along the outer hull of the ship to the left, the next open place I came to was the left shuttle dock, so I teleported them there. I then prepped a command announcement to warn the marines about their presence, and announced it the instant any human could have seen any alien.
Marines engaged the Aliens in the Medbay service alleys and took heavy casualties due to trying to attack a crusher and a prae in a series of 1 and 2 tile rooms. I saw a plasma cutter in req, so I made an announcement to remind marines that it existed and is an effective way of leveling the playing field. I'm sorry you took it as an insult, but it was intended as genuine strategic advice, though I don't think anyone acted on it.
By this time, dchat was slowly filling up, so I spawned in a 1-5 man random ERT which rolled freelancer. They did their thing... I ahealed then moderately hurt a synth that both had a weird bug and was stuck in permacrit (probably shouldn't have done that, but synths in crit won't heal or die on their own and can delay the round by virtue of being impossible to find).
Once the marines died off to the 3 living ayys, EORG started and the discord shitstorm started. All the messages are still there, but I'm going to mention the ones he quoted.
I told him that if he didn't like what I did to go make a complaint and posted the link after. This is SOP, more or less.
I also told him I don't think it'll go anywhere. I still don't, because I don't believe I did anything majorly wrong.
I also mentioned that if "you" want to do my job, make an admin app. This still holds true. If you think you can do my job better, go for it.
I mentioned that I don't listen to you (Burger). I don't. If you have an admin-related question, I'll answer it ingame (You were the one who stopped talking), but I don't really like talking to you outside my required duties as admin. I personally dislike you, but that's not relevant to this situation, nor will it ever be from an administrative point of view.
I mentioned that I don't listen to users aggressively trying to force me to do things. This is 100% true, and is kind of a fault of mine. If someone pushes at me to do something because they're pushy and think that I'm wrong, I check the situation first. If I'm wrong, I adapt. If I'm not wrong, I will not change no matter what you tell me. I'm always willing to listen to additional evidence, but if I get incorrect hearsay while I'm actually aghosted and looking at things, I will 100% ignore the person who has incomplete evidence.
I think you think I'm trying to insult you or pick a fight. I'm not. I made the best call I could based off of the situation ingame.
Was it the right one? Maybe, maybe not. I think so.
Would I do it again given what I knew then and now know? 100%.
- BurgerBB
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:22 am
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by BurgerBB » Wed Nov 20, 2019 9:24 am
#524822
I would like the full conversation in the ahelp posted. I only have snippets but even then I think it's an outright and seriously malicious lie that I was "flipping my shit" or "extremely aggressive" or that I "ragequit" the ahelp.
I only have partial logs because byond chat sucks, but this is what I have.
I did not accuse you of deliberately extending the round, I'm saying that spawning a human dressed as a xeno "effectively extended the round" and gave a pretty good explanation for it. There is literally no aggression here except for yourself where you got excessively defensive and passive aggressive. "Your suit sensors show.... ONE. dead marine." is not how you talk to people.
Honestly, a majority of what you said were also pretty gross misrepresentations of what actually happened. I would also like for you or someone else to post the announcement you made to the marines. On its own, it's nothing but just generally combined with your attitude, it's honestly an issue especially when you ignored me telling you about how there wasn't more than one dead marine because you personally didn't like me which you admit here. Like I offered you evidence and you didn't listen at all to it, which made me want to close the ticket because if you weren't going to take me seriously, then there is no point in having the ticket open.
Again, posting this:
Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not comfortable with admins who do something wrong on false information, and then when shown the correct information, they ignore it completely because they didn't like the person providing the information, but when others provide it, they ignore it too. When people in discord then complain about your choice to buff the already winning team, you then tell them to "make a complaint if you want, but I don't think it will go anywhere" and then also say "apply for admin if you want to do my job" despite no one talking about how you're a bad admin or whatever.
And honestly I don't think you'll do the same thing again if you had the facts. You literally said several times in deadchat that if at least 1 or two marines died, you wouldn't have done anything and several marines came in saying that they died and saw other people die. You then completely ignored them too and refused to admit that maybe you fucked up.
I only have partial logs because byond chat sucks, but this is what I have.
I did not accuse you of deliberately extending the round, I'm saying that spawning a human dressed as a xeno "effectively extended the round" and gave a pretty good explanation for it. There is literally no aggression here except for yourself where you got excessively defensive and passive aggressive. "Your suit sensors show.... ONE. dead marine." is not how you talk to people.
Honestly, a majority of what you said were also pretty gross misrepresentations of what actually happened. I would also like for you or someone else to post the announcement you made to the marines. On its own, it's nothing but just generally combined with your attitude, it's honestly an issue especially when you ignored me telling you about how there wasn't more than one dead marine because you personally didn't like me which you admit here. Like I offered you evidence and you didn't listen at all to it, which made me want to close the ticket because if you weren't going to take me seriously, then there is no point in having the ticket open.
Again, posting this:
Like, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not comfortable with admins who do something wrong on false information, and then when shown the correct information, they ignore it completely because they didn't like the person providing the information, but when others provide it, they ignore it too. When people in discord then complain about your choice to buff the already winning team, you then tell them to "make a complaint if you want, but I don't think it will go anywhere" and then also say "apply for admin if you want to do my job" despite no one talking about how you're a bad admin or whatever.
And honestly I don't think you'll do the same thing again if you had the facts. You literally said several times in deadchat that if at least 1 or two marines died, you wouldn't have done anything and several marines came in saying that they died and saw other people die. You then completely ignored them too and refused to admit that maybe you fucked up.
- JPR
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:19 am
- Byond Username: Jroinc1
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by JPR » Wed Nov 20, 2019 11:12 am
#524834
You're posting partial conversations. I'm not supposed to add logs to this, but the full conversations will be added once a headmin has a chance to look at this, same with the announcement.
Ingame, you were the only person who gave me information beforehand, and to the best of my knowledge, it was and is incorrect. I checked the area in aghost mode and sued follow dead for my own benefit, and checked suit sensors for your benefit. I should have used the Who command as that lets staff see who is playing what role, but I didn't think of it till later, and frankly I won't lose much sleep over it.
Once a headmin looks at this, they can confirm numbers and what actually happened.
Ingame, you were the only person who gave me information beforehand, and to the best of my knowledge, it was and is incorrect. I checked the area in aghost mode and sued follow dead for my own benefit, and checked suit sensors for your benefit. I should have used the Who command as that lets staff see who is playing what role, but I didn't think of it till later, and frankly I won't lose much sleep over it.
Once a headmin looks at this, they can confirm numbers and what actually happened.
- BurgerBB
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:22 am
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by BurgerBB » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:55 pm
#524889
I told you that multiple people died. You told me no, no one died. You told me that one person was dead on suit sensors. I told you that there was a person in front of me that was dead who wasn't on suit sensors. You ignored that completely and still insisted that only one person died on suit sensors because you didn't like me. You were then scolded in deadchat and in discord by others for thinking that only one person died, and still insisted at the time that only one person died. Even partial logs show that this was the case.
Imagine if this was a different scenario. Imagine I told you that a marine deliberately tried to kill me in an FoB, but you insisted that they shot me only once because suit sensors showed that I only had 20 damage despite me providing logs that they shot me multiple times and that a medic healed me after, and then you went on record to say that you didn't bother to look into anything factual because you didn't like me.
Imagine if this was a different scenario. Imagine I told you that a marine deliberately tried to kill me in an FoB, but you insisted that they shot me only once because suit sensors showed that I only had 20 damage despite me providing logs that they shot me multiple times and that a medic healed me after, and then you went on record to say that you didn't bother to look into anything factual because you didn't like me.
- JPR
- TGMC Administrator
- Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 12:19 am
- Byond Username: Jroinc1
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by JPR » Wed Nov 20, 2019 8:43 pm
#524895
It's not actually a different scenario, though.
As I stated before, my personal dislike of you has no bearing on administrative matters whatsoever.
In the case given, I'd have used your logs as a starting point to pull my own logs of the situation, investigate witnesses around (using the automatic FF logs I have enabled), PM the guy, and conduct an investigation into why he did it. Once I had enough info to be reasonably sure, I'd take the appropriate action, then let you know it had been resolved. I wouldn't tell you what he had been punished with, or even if he had been punished, because that's not a thing we do on this server.
I have explained my entire chain of thoughts in previous posts, and I would still do the same thing again in the same situation. Only thing I'd change is using the Who command to get 100% exact numbers on living VS dead.
I'm sorry your side lost, but in a ~6-7 VS 23-24 where neither side is willing to push because they'll get killed, I'll 100% adminbus a solution every time, and it will benefit the weaker side. In this case, the xenos were the weaker side and were buffed accordingly.
Once a headmin looks at this, they can post logs and numbers and confirm what actually happened.
As I stated before, my personal dislike of you has no bearing on administrative matters whatsoever.
In the case given, I'd have used your logs as a starting point to pull my own logs of the situation, investigate witnesses around (using the automatic FF logs I have enabled), PM the guy, and conduct an investigation into why he did it. Once I had enough info to be reasonably sure, I'd take the appropriate action, then let you know it had been resolved. I wouldn't tell you what he had been punished with, or even if he had been punished, because that's not a thing we do on this server.
I have explained my entire chain of thoughts in previous posts, and I would still do the same thing again in the same situation. Only thing I'd change is using the Who command to get 100% exact numbers on living VS dead.
I'm sorry your side lost, but in a ~6-7 VS 23-24 where neither side is willing to push because they'll get killed, I'll 100% adminbus a solution every time, and it will benefit the weaker side. In this case, the xenos were the weaker side and were buffed accordingly.
Once a headmin looks at this, they can post logs and numbers and confirm what actually happened.
- BurgerBB
- Joined: Sun Nov 17, 2019 12:22 am
Re: [COMPLAINT] Jroinc1 BurgerBB
by BurgerBB » Thu Nov 21, 2019 7:01 am
#524977
You say it has no bearing on administrative matters but when you post this sort of thing as an administrator it's exceptionally concerning.
Context: Project lead told me to do something with a PR. I argued that their method was wrong and provided a reason why and they provided a reason why I should do the thing that they told me to do. There were no insults flung, everyone was polite, we were just having a disagreement. They come in the conversation and say this, which was just really just... out there to the point where even Roh said "Let's not." and someone else used a blush emote.
You could argue that this wasn't said or done as an administrator, but as a player, but when you comment on player behavior and accuse them of "going after" the project lead AKA break the rules, it's concerning.
Context: Project lead told me to do something with a PR. I argued that their method was wrong and provided a reason why and they provided a reason why I should do the thing that they told me to do. There were no insults flung, everyone was polite, we were just having a disagreement. They come in the conversation and say this, which was just really just... out there to the point where even Roh said "Let's not." and someone else used a blush emote.
You could argue that this wasn't said or done as an administrator, but as a player, but when you comment on player behavior and accuse them of "going after" the project lead AKA break the rules, it's concerning.
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