[JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

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Greedycore
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:33 pm
Byond Username: GreedyCore

[JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by Greedycore » #593450

BYOND account: GreedyCore
Character name: Cade Kerner
Ban type: Role:CL/Corporate Liaison
Ban length: Permanent
Ban reason: Banned from Roles: Corporate Liaison permanently - frontlined as CL. Didn't show any respect in ahelps and had a shitty behavior. Did not agree to improve behavior as well as did not understand rules. Apply in forums.
Time ban was placed: 2021-02-17 11:21:08
Round ID in which ban was placed:???
Your side of the story: As a CL I always tried to atleast send out one fax that asks for directives from CC,I wouldn't be suprised if this (I don't remember) was one of these rounds,but nonetheless, as I've read the CL wiki and main server rules,nothing states that CL has to either, stay shipside,is forbidden from bearing and using arms against xenos or any other specific rule stating I can't go planetside to acquire and oversee operations.
I don't believe that I actually showed any sort of shitty behaviour/namecalling/derrogatives, I hadn't personally demeaned the admin, I showed my case as clear as I could in the PM's and I think the admin is taking it personal that I didn't do outright what he told me to(He messaged me when I was in a column of marines, I responded to him as fast as I could and was ready to just drop the game just then to answer this... bwoink. He told me to respond to him when I'm safe, and I was at the moment, then the column moved on, I was left in the dark, nonetheless I kept answering the DM's just because I didn't mind it(I know that it's stated somewhere that you should try to reply to the admin faster than later),I mean if he wanted for me to answer when I was in safety,he wouldn't just message me when I was ways away from FOB and THEN ask me to get to safety that was particularly nowhere in sight and detaching from marine column without a flashlight would be even more dangerous and CL's words actually don't hold any weight in swaying waves of marines).
Why you think you should be unbanned: I think that until there's a better plan for making any "self-evident" gameplay loop for Corporate Liaisons other than the 49 out of 50 unreliable and ultimately useless fax use as stated by other admin staff and sporadic,hand-me-down bridge officer job that you aren't required under any circumstances to fulfill without any consequences. There is nowhere stated what RP standard of a CL is... other than it's "higher",not giving any explicit answers or guidelines to go by,and the guidelines provided by CL wiki outright states that CL can do ANYTHING he wants because he's not directly meant to do any particular job and not like he's got any ties to the Corps either. I know also that some leads permit this behaviour.
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SpaceLove
Joined: Thu Jul 16, 2020 1:42 pm
Byond Username: SpaceLove

Re: [JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by SpaceLove » #593497

Alright, so first of all, the biggest reason I banned you for was how unwilling you were to change your behavior. Had you promised me not to do it in future, I would have left you with a note.

If you still promise to not repeat this behavior as a CL in future, I would be very happy to lift this ban. Otherwise I believe this ban should stay. Rule 5 Precedent 7 In itself is enough to tell you that CL is a position of higher RP standards, which marines are not. If you wish to play like a marine, just become a marine. Also once again this ban was enforced due to your unwillingness to change, not because of your misinterpretation of the rule.

About which leads allow this behavior, I am not so sure. If you don't promise to change your behavior, this ban will stay from my opinion. It will be upto leads then.

Thank you for appealing, I hope your doubts are cleared.
Last edited by SpaceLove on Sat Feb 27, 2021 6:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Lewdcifer
TGMC Lead
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:59 pm
Byond Username: Lewdcifer
Location: Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: [JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by Lewdcifer » #593598

It is my understanding that you quite literally told an administrator that you wouldn't attend our rules and instead refuse to change. This behavior by itself is very concerning, and I can more or less understand why the ban was placed in the manner that it was. I have no additions I can offer besides my support to SpaceLove's opinion; if you give us your promise that you'll change and follow our rules, then I would personally be more than willing to change my opinion on the matter.

If the original poster would like to add something, I will keep this thread open for a couple of days (assuming there's no replies).
Greedycore
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2021 5:33 pm
Byond Username: GreedyCore

Re: [JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by Greedycore » #593830

The continued use of vague crutches of rules that are in itself not explicitly refering to my predicament or many other Corporate Liaisons that just read the CL wiki and skimmed over the general rules that don't state any set-in-stone RP standards that CL is subjected to,I believe this jobban is largely without any precedence other than that an admin "feels" that CL's shouldn't do what they want,which is nowhere stated they can't and many in-game interactions lead to believe many people such as myself(like being able to use marine vendors,use the Dropship's console).

What you guys miss out trying to cite the rules is the second part of the 5.7 paragraph directly tells CL's what to "not" do. This paragraph states more or less that any "good-will" that has to be uphold as with more "freedom" standard,none of which is stated that disallows CL's from frontlining.

"CLs and Medical Researchers are held to higher RP standards but otherwise given more freedom to spice the round up. They should still not sabotage the mission, antagonize the marines without direct orders, nor fail to represent the interests of the company"

None of which can be used in this instance pertaining to just essentially limiting any "freedom" idea that the player has in his mind. What you are basically doing is taking one specific (not even a full sentence)excerpt of the whole rule and trying to enforce it because you just don't like it,that's how it looks to me and that's how it saddly came to be.
I imagine that the jobban will probably stay as a symbol of stubbornness(both mine and the admin's) and malpractice of admin tools you have been provided with inspite of the rule section's dictating how it should be.

I will continue to fail to comply to any attempts at enforcing any "unwritten" laws and conjecture at it's best and even if this ban's only reason was more or less only given out just because I was not willing to submit to unlawful practice and following a "micromanaged way" you want CL's to play then it shall be received as such(not the smallest of footnotes) and should've been the main reason of jobban(or hell,even permaban for any Roles that have any kind of "VagueRP" tied to them) rather than hiding behind vague precedents such as "frontlining" as a CL.
I sincerelly have sympathy for the people that will come after me to be greeted with such vague and unclear rules that basically depend on which admin you came across.
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Dolth
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2018 12:35 am
Byond Username: Pette

Re: [JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by Dolth » #593860

"CLs and Medical Researchers are held to higher RP standards but otherwise given more freedom to spice the round up. They should still not sabotage the mission, antagonize the marines without direct orders, nor fail to represent the interests of the company"

You're allowed more freedom at the expense of holding higer RP standards than the rest. A civilian going to the frontline and shooting xenomorphs is NOT "higher RP standards" than our regular MRP rules. It's as simple as that.

Yes, you can deploy and do whatever you want given it's coherent, and yet again, deploying with rifles and armor solely to shoot at xenomorphs without a word is NOT realistic nor 'higher RP standards" than MRP.

If you don't have any fax and then give up on playing a roleplay role such as CL and Researcher (which are described as RP roles), you're free to ask if you can go to cryo and be sent to the lobby to play as a PFC and not waste the opportunity of another player to play CL like it's intended.
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Lewdcifer
TGMC Lead
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:59 pm
Byond Username: Lewdcifer
Location: Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: [JOBBAN] [Space love] Cade Kerner

Post by Lewdcifer » #594386

Enough time was given for this appeal to be discussed proper between admins and the original poster. As per Dolth and SpaceLove's criteria, which I agree with, your job ban will continue to stand until your stance on our rules changes. If it does, feel free to make another appeal and give us your word that you'll attend our rules.
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