[Admin Complaint][Kingtrin]LightBeast - Unprofessional behavior
Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:12 pm
Byond ckey: lightbeast
Character Name: John Armitage
Admin in qustion: Kingtrin
Evidence: There are chatlogs but I don't have them
Your side of the story: This is both complaint and a bit of feedback.
This happened after the end of a round in the OOC chat before the next round began. I was mad at an engineer from the previous round for ignoring orders and their actions wound up seriously hurting the marine team, some would consider to the point of griefing. In the OOC chat I told him if I saw him play engineer again I'd ziptie him and throw him in disposals. Kingtrin bwoops me during the next round as I'm trying to play and asks me if I've read rule 1, which he knows I have since I'm on this server a lot. Then he informs me that I was being a dick and metagrudging, and that's not allowed.
First, I don't know where "talking about metagrudging" crosses the line to actually metagrudging someone since I didn't actually ziptie this engineer and throw him in disposals. I was going about my round and so was he, but Kingtrin decided it was worth his time to sarcastically question me about some justified OOC anger. The only thing that's actually in the rules about metagrudging is in Rule 1 precedents, and it's not exactly clear whether being pissed off in chat one time at something a player did during the previous round qualifies as "metagrudging." Obviously that's an absurdly extreme interpretation of that rule that a lot of players would be guilty of breaking. All he had to do, if he was that concerned, was say "hey, I know it was chat but metagrudging is against the rules so please don't do that. There will be consequences if you do," which is a polite warning. I would've said "okay" and everyone could've gone about their game. That's what I would've done, and I think anybody else with a level head and understanding of the emotions that occur during this game.
Second, his insistence that I "broke rule 1" is yet another example of why having such a vague rule like "don't be a dick" is a terrible idea that will only cause problems, especially when you have admins like Kingtrin on your staff that will be very liberal in their interpretation of such a rule. From my perspective, the engineer that trolled us was the one being a dick and all I did was tell him off once in OOC chat during the next round, but again Kingtrin decides it's worth his and my time to PM me about it during the game and argue back and for for ten minutes before noting me. The player I directed the OOC chat to was even reported multiple times by others!
I know this server needs all the admins it can get, but in my opinion, Kingtrin's behavior doesn't fit with the server's philosophy at all. His handling of things is excessive and hypersensitive, and to be honest he reminds me of the power-tripping admins that cause problems on many other servers. He's also the only admin on this server I've seen act like that, and this isn't the only time I've seen him do it. He repeatedly gets worked up in chat about the most minor comments or anger and threatens to mute everyone, and I'm sure with how quickly he reacts to every little thing he perceives to be an infraction, there are others racking up lots of notes from him on their dreaded permanent record.
This server is different for many reasons, and the admins are a big part of that. There are plenty of servers with uptight trigger-happy staff that make players walk on eggshells over vague rules, and if you allow this type of moderation and bring on more admins like him, it will change the entire atmosphere of the server. I don't think anybody wants that. Kingtrin either needs to chill out or go be an admin where he can freely exercise his need for excessive control. I left the CM server for exactly this reason, and if this server becomes like them in their moderation, I won't play here either.
My last point is that the rules are way too vague and need to be defined better. I know they're still a work-in-progress and that it's impossible to have rules for every circumstance, but a general outline of what is acceptable and what is not i.e. cussing, anger in dead chat, arguing, etc.. would help clarify a lot of issues, for starters. Other things like "no server bashing" are still unwritten and I see warnings about them on a daily basis. Such things could easily be put in the rules as well. I've also seen people told by staff to go to the discord for discussing the game in the chat, which is bizarre. What else are you exactly going to do in dead chat? If you don't want people to talk about, of all things, the bloody game itself, then just don't even have dead chat at all. I would remind staff though that this can be a very frustrating game, and chat helps players to vent some of that whether it's by just being salty or talking with other players about what happened. When you have no outlet for that frustration, it makes things worse and can drive some players to lash out. Admins should be chill about chat as in 999 out of 1,000 cases, it doesn't matter at all and nobody cares after ten minutes. So long as you're not breaking a rule or being a serious asshole, racist, spamming, or whatever, admins shouldn't be micro-managing the chat; they have much more important things to do like spawning giant moth people.
We're all human, and vague rules cause nothing but problems. Please clarify them to help both your staff and your players have a better experience.
Character Name: John Armitage
Admin in qustion: Kingtrin
Evidence: There are chatlogs but I don't have them
Your side of the story: This is both complaint and a bit of feedback.
This happened after the end of a round in the OOC chat before the next round began. I was mad at an engineer from the previous round for ignoring orders and their actions wound up seriously hurting the marine team, some would consider to the point of griefing. In the OOC chat I told him if I saw him play engineer again I'd ziptie him and throw him in disposals. Kingtrin bwoops me during the next round as I'm trying to play and asks me if I've read rule 1, which he knows I have since I'm on this server a lot. Then he informs me that I was being a dick and metagrudging, and that's not allowed.
First, I don't know where "talking about metagrudging" crosses the line to actually metagrudging someone since I didn't actually ziptie this engineer and throw him in disposals. I was going about my round and so was he, but Kingtrin decided it was worth his time to sarcastically question me about some justified OOC anger. The only thing that's actually in the rules about metagrudging is in Rule 1 precedents, and it's not exactly clear whether being pissed off in chat one time at something a player did during the previous round qualifies as "metagrudging." Obviously that's an absurdly extreme interpretation of that rule that a lot of players would be guilty of breaking. All he had to do, if he was that concerned, was say "hey, I know it was chat but metagrudging is against the rules so please don't do that. There will be consequences if you do," which is a polite warning. I would've said "okay" and everyone could've gone about their game. That's what I would've done, and I think anybody else with a level head and understanding of the emotions that occur during this game.
Second, his insistence that I "broke rule 1" is yet another example of why having such a vague rule like "don't be a dick" is a terrible idea that will only cause problems, especially when you have admins like Kingtrin on your staff that will be very liberal in their interpretation of such a rule. From my perspective, the engineer that trolled us was the one being a dick and all I did was tell him off once in OOC chat during the next round, but again Kingtrin decides it's worth his and my time to PM me about it during the game and argue back and for for ten minutes before noting me. The player I directed the OOC chat to was even reported multiple times by others!
I know this server needs all the admins it can get, but in my opinion, Kingtrin's behavior doesn't fit with the server's philosophy at all. His handling of things is excessive and hypersensitive, and to be honest he reminds me of the power-tripping admins that cause problems on many other servers. He's also the only admin on this server I've seen act like that, and this isn't the only time I've seen him do it. He repeatedly gets worked up in chat about the most minor comments or anger and threatens to mute everyone, and I'm sure with how quickly he reacts to every little thing he perceives to be an infraction, there are others racking up lots of notes from him on their dreaded permanent record.
This server is different for many reasons, and the admins are a big part of that. There are plenty of servers with uptight trigger-happy staff that make players walk on eggshells over vague rules, and if you allow this type of moderation and bring on more admins like him, it will change the entire atmosphere of the server. I don't think anybody wants that. Kingtrin either needs to chill out or go be an admin where he can freely exercise his need for excessive control. I left the CM server for exactly this reason, and if this server becomes like them in their moderation, I won't play here either.
My last point is that the rules are way too vague and need to be defined better. I know they're still a work-in-progress and that it's impossible to have rules for every circumstance, but a general outline of what is acceptable and what is not i.e. cussing, anger in dead chat, arguing, etc.. would help clarify a lot of issues, for starters. Other things like "no server bashing" are still unwritten and I see warnings about them on a daily basis. Such things could easily be put in the rules as well. I've also seen people told by staff to go to the discord for discussing the game in the chat, which is bizarre. What else are you exactly going to do in dead chat? If you don't want people to talk about, of all things, the bloody game itself, then just don't even have dead chat at all. I would remind staff though that this can be a very frustrating game, and chat helps players to vent some of that whether it's by just being salty or talking with other players about what happened. When you have no outlet for that frustration, it makes things worse and can drive some players to lash out. Admins should be chill about chat as in 999 out of 1,000 cases, it doesn't matter at all and nobody cares after ten minutes. So long as you're not breaking a rule or being a serious asshole, racist, spamming, or whatever, admins shouldn't be micro-managing the chat; they have much more important things to do like spawning giant moth people.
We're all human, and vague rules cause nothing but problems. Please clarify them to help both your staff and your players have a better experience.