[COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

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Gub Gub Gub Gub Gub
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:41 am

[COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by Gub Gub Gub Gub Gub » #595789

BYOND account: <Phobe Stall>
Character name: <John Cooper>
Admin in question: <JeanManche>
When did it take place: <10:30-11:00 UTC>
Round ID in which ban was placed: <7881>
Your side of the story: <I went down as a Medical Researcher to get an infected monkey for my research. I admit I was on the frontlines but I was staying back and wasn't actually fighting anything. I was then bwoinked in the middle of nowhere while I was going to get an egg to infect a monkey with and was told by JeanManche that as a Medical Researcher you can't go planetside under any circumstances, witch I know is VERY wrong but he insisted and cryoe'd me, wasting almost an hour of my time and ruining my round. Very unformal and not very nice of a thing to do. Keep in mind this is my first time breaking said rule and I didn't know about it beforehand. Even though I was allowed to do this last night at the time I'm writing this complaint and an admin even played into our gimmicks. I can't remember who but they used admin powers to move pens and papers to us to send faxes to Nanotrasen about our alien we captured. So I don't understand why this would be against the rules as the one job Medical Researchers have is to make corrupted aliens and occasionally help out other people even though Medical Researchers aren't required to heal people. [img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC01.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC0.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC2.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC01.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC02.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC03.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC04.png[/img]
[img]file:///C:/Users/shark/OneDrive/Pictures/TGMC05.png[/img]
tell me if the screenshots aren't working I'm a retard>
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Lewdcifer
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Re: [COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by Lewdcifer » #595790

Images are not working, may wanna fix those.
JeanManche
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Re: [COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by JeanManche » #595840

Here are the logs for our tickets, including the input from Lewdcifer during the ticket messages :
Spoiler:
[2021-03-17 22:20:47.436] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): Hold up, friend.
You are not a marine. Get out of here, now.

[2021-03-17 22:20:51.930] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): yeah?

[2021-03-17 22:21:04.941] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are a medical researcher, not a combat role.

[2021-03-17 22:21:11.902] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): im going to get eggs

[2021-03-17 22:21:52.772] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are still not supposed to engage xenos.

[2021-03-17 22:22:19.365] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): im staying in the back, why is this even a problem? I'm not a fucking synth and I have a weapon to defend myself only. I'm not frontlining for no reason either. I'm here to get eggs

[2021-03-17 22:23:08.665] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): The problem is : you are a civilian and, of top of that, a support role.
If you want to be on the frontline, you should choose a combat role, such as squad marine, or even a corpsman.

[2021-03-17 22:23:22.227] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): Researchers aren't Medic Officers

[2021-03-17 22:23:41.651] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm here to get eggs and nothing else

[2021-03-17 22:24:21.174] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): why?

[2021-03-17 22:24:34.875] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I was literally allowed to do this last night

[2021-03-17 22:24:37.423] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are hereby then, cryoed, your role returned for another player to pick it up. You are also warned to not misuse roles outside of their boundaries.

[2021-03-17 22:25:03.840] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a fucking researcher dude, I went down to get eggs so that I can do the one job my job is supposed to do to roleplay. Why am I getting punished for this?

[2021-03-17 22:25:13.029] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are heavily armed, as a marine. You are on the very frontline.

[2021-03-17 22:25:28.139] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I had light jaegar gear and a flamethrower
[2021-03-17 22:25:36.166] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I hardly consider that heavily armed

[2021-03-17 22:26:40.911] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): As a player, I do not consider that heavily armed, but compared to what medical roles usually carry, yes, it's still heavily armed.
The main issue is : you were on the frontline, armed and acting like a marine to get your eggs.
Fact is : you are a support role, and mainly a roleplay role, not a fighting role.

[2021-03-17 22:27:30.419] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a researcher, I'm allowed to go planetside to get eggs, you said it yourself and agreed with me that I'm a researcher role and roleplayer role

[2021-03-17 22:28:09.843] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): can I get another admins opinion on this? I was allowed to do this last night and nobody said anything about it, I think you are just throwing a sissy fit to ruin fun

[2021-03-17 22:29:11.470] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Lewdcifer/(Elder Praetorian (SA-X))->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Rule 6: In-game administration rulings are final.
- Precedent 4: Adminshopping is not allowed. Respond to the staff member speaking to you and respect their ruling. You may appeal that after the round is finished but do not attempt to get a new ruling from a different admin to counter it during the round.

[2021-03-17 22:29:21.600] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): I was playing, and interrupting my playtime to deal with rulebreaks are no fun to me.

I am currently requesting Headmin's input on the matter.
Usually, my ruling would be final. As you said another admin approved your behavior last time, I am asking to get a decision.
Please hold on.


[2021-03-17 22:29:25.623] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->Lewdcifer/(Elder Praetorian (SA-X)): Where in the rules does it say that researchers cant go planetside?

[2021-03-17 22:31:19.679] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): and on top of that you cryoed me, a researcher for going onto the ground to get eggs. My one job as a useless barely implemented job in the server. I was allowed to do this with another player last night as I said before and an admin even played with the gimmick. I don't see what is wrong with it and would like my fucking round back

[2021-03-17 22:33:09.967] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Rule 5. Precedent 4 : "Shipside roles, such as Medical Officers, Cargo Technicians, Ship Engineers, or IOs, should not deploy if their departments are not being taken care of. They must additionally get permission from their higher-ups, and remain in FOB while deployed. They should not leave their departments completely abandoned either."

[2021-03-17 22:33:49.445] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a fucking researcher, what do I do other than get eggs to research?

[2021-03-17 22:35:04.201] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): You also refused the fact that you just Cryoe'd me, wasting my time and basically removing me from the round for doing my job as a RESEARCHER, I'm not a medical doctor.

[2021-03-17 22:35:08.595] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Research is a nearly useless Department. It had its perks years ago, not anymore.
Usually, a MR getting their hands on eggs would still need an admin approval to get corrupted xenos.
MR is basically a CL, but more useful as they can perform surgeries. But still pretty useless in most cases.

[2021-03-17 22:36:02.455] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): so what you are saying is you don't like my gimmick thats taking up a useless class that nobody plays anyways because they can also do surgery like a medical doctor?

[2021-03-17 22:36:51.295] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): I do not refuse the fact that I cryoed you. I cryoed you because you refused my call and went straight outside FOB to go back to the frontline.
Negotiations are over.
You are warned to respect your limited role.
If you do not agree with my ruling, please, reach us on the forums and make an appeal here : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=70


[2021-03-17 22:37:35.148] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I will actually do that because I believe that I was fucked over unfairly here, go fuck yourself in a respectable and formal way

[2021-03-17 22:37:57.556] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Sure, have a nice evening.
Here are the facts :
- You were, as a medical researcher, armored and armed.
- You were deployed, outside FOB.
- You were on the very frontline, not at the back.
- You even got moderately/lightly injured and went back to FOB to get treated during our messages.
- You were admin cryoed after leaving again the FOB to return to the frontline.


Here is the motivation of my ruling :
- You would have stayed at FOB, I would have said nothing.
- You would have gone outside FOB, but very barely armed, or unarmed, I would have frowned upon it, but, I would have let it go.


My conclusion :
- The cryoing was a way to remove you from the round, without having to ban you or doing something harsher.
- The note you had was mainly due to the fact that you refused to acknowledge you were actively in a fighting situation, despite being a medical researcher.

I have no further details to add, I am awaiting for Lewdcifer questions/decision.
Gub Gub Gub Gub Gub
Joined: Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:41 am

Re: [COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by Gub Gub Gub Gub Gub » #595900

JeanManche wrote:Here are the logs for our tickets, including the input from Lewdcifer during the ticket messages :
Spoiler:
[2021-03-17 22:20:47.436] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): Hold up, friend.
You are not a marine. Get out of here, now.

[2021-03-17 22:20:51.930] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): yeah?

[2021-03-17 22:21:04.941] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are a medical researcher, not a combat role.

[2021-03-17 22:21:11.902] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): im going to get eggs

[2021-03-17 22:21:52.772] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are still not supposed to engage xenos.

[2021-03-17 22:22:19.365] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): im staying in the back, why is this even a problem? I'm not a fucking synth and I have a weapon to defend myself only. I'm not frontlining for no reason either. I'm here to get eggs

[2021-03-17 22:23:08.665] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): The problem is : you are a civilian and, of top of that, a support role.
If you want to be on the frontline, you should choose a combat role, such as squad marine, or even a corpsman.

[2021-03-17 22:23:22.227] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): Researchers aren't Medic Officers

[2021-03-17 22:23:41.651] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm here to get eggs and nothing else

[2021-03-17 22:24:21.174] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): why?

[2021-03-17 22:24:34.875] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I was literally allowed to do this last night

[2021-03-17 22:24:37.423] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are hereby then, cryoed, your role returned for another player to pick it up. You are also warned to not misuse roles outside of their boundaries.

[2021-03-17 22:25:03.840] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a fucking researcher dude, I went down to get eggs so that I can do the one job my job is supposed to do to roleplay. Why am I getting punished for this?

[2021-03-17 22:25:13.029] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): You are heavily armed, as a marine. You are on the very frontline.

[2021-03-17 22:25:28.139] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I had light jaegar gear and a flamethrower
[2021-03-17 22:25:36.166] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(John Cooper)->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I hardly consider that heavily armed

[2021-03-17 22:26:40.911] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(John Cooper): As a player, I do not consider that heavily armed, but compared to what medical roles usually carry, yes, it's still heavily armed.
The main issue is : you were on the frontline, armed and acting like a marine to get your eggs.
Fact is : you are a support role, and mainly a roleplay role, not a fighting role.

[2021-03-17 22:27:30.419] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a researcher, I'm allowed to go planetside to get eggs, you said it yourself and agreed with me that I'm a researcher role and roleplayer role

[2021-03-17 22:28:09.843] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): can I get another admins opinion on this? I was allowed to do this last night and nobody said anything about it, I think you are just throwing a sissy fit to ruin fun

[2021-03-17 22:29:11.470] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Lewdcifer/(Elder Praetorian (SA-X))->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Rule 6: In-game administration rulings are final.
- Precedent 4: Adminshopping is not allowed. Respond to the staff member speaking to you and respect their ruling. You may appeal that after the round is finished but do not attempt to get a new ruling from a different admin to counter it during the round.

[2021-03-17 22:29:21.600] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): I was playing, and interrupting my playtime to deal with rulebreaks are no fun to me.

I am currently requesting Headmin's input on the matter.
Usually, my ruling would be final. As you said another admin approved your behavior last time, I am asking to get a decision.
Please hold on.


[2021-03-17 22:29:25.623] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->Lewdcifer/(Elder Praetorian (SA-X)): Where in the rules does it say that researchers cant go planetside?

[2021-03-17 22:31:19.679] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): and on top of that you cryoed me, a researcher for going onto the ground to get eggs. My one job as a useless barely implemented job in the server. I was allowed to do this with another player last night as I said before and an admin even played with the gimmick. I don't see what is wrong with it and would like my fucking round back

[2021-03-17 22:33:09.967] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Rule 5. Precedent 4 : "Shipside roles, such as Medical Officers, Cargo Technicians, Ship Engineers, or IOs, should not deploy if their departments are not being taken care of. They must additionally get permission from their higher-ups, and remain in FOB while deployed. They should not leave their departments completely abandoned either."

[2021-03-17 22:33:49.445] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I'm a fucking researcher, what do I do other than get eggs to research?

[2021-03-17 22:35:04.201] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): You also refused the fact that you just Cryoe'd me, wasting my time and basically removing me from the round for doing my job as a RESEARCHER, I'm not a medical doctor.

[2021-03-17 22:35:08.595] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Research is a nearly useless Department. It had its perks years ago, not anymore.
Usually, a MR getting their hands on eggs would still need an admin approval to get corrupted xenos.
MR is basically a CL, but more useful as they can perform surgeries. But still pretty useless in most cases.

[2021-03-17 22:36:02.455] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): so what you are saying is you don't like my gimmick thats taking up a useless class that nobody plays anyways because they can also do surgery like a medical doctor?

[2021-03-17 22:36:51.295] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): I do not refuse the fact that I cryoed you. I cryoed you because you refused my call and went straight outside FOB to go back to the frontline.
Negotiations are over.
You are warned to respect your limited role.
If you do not agree with my ruling, please, reach us on the forums and make an appeal here : https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewforum.php?f=70


[2021-03-17 22:37:35.148] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824))->JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline): I will actually do that because I believe that I was fucked over unfairly here, go fuck yourself in a respectable and formal way

[2021-03-17 22:37:57.556] ADMINPRIVATE: PM: JeanManche/(Mark 'Echo' Kesserline)->Phobe Stall/(Elder Praetorian (824)): Sure, have a nice evening.
Here are the facts :
- You were, as a medical researcher, armored and armed.
- You were deployed, outside FOB.
- You were on the very frontline, not at the back.
- You even got moderately/lightly injured and went back to FOB to get treated during our messages.
- You were admin cryoed after leaving again the FOB to return to the frontline.


Here is the motivation of my ruling :
- You would have stayed at FOB, I would have said nothing.
- You would have gone outside FOB, but very barely armed, or unarmed, I would have frowned upon it, but, I would have let it go.


My conclusion :
- The cryoing was a way to remove you from the round, without having to ban you or doing something harsher.
- The note you had was mainly due to the fact that you refused to acknowledge you were actively in a fighting situation, despite being a medical researcher.

I have no further details to add, I am awaiting for Lewdcifer questions/decision.
Why do you talk like you are wearing a tuxedo at all times? It doesn't make you look smart it just makes you look like a tool.
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Lewdcifer
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Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:59 pm
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Re: [COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by Lewdcifer » #595928

Rule 5, Precedent 7: CLs and Medical Researchers are held to higher RP standards but otherwise given more freedom to spice the round up. They should still not sabotage the mission, antagonize the marines without direct orders, nor fail to represent the interests of the company.

What "higher RP standards" entails in this context, is that you shouldn't be playing Medical Researcher like a frontliner. There's many other ways of achieving your goals (to provide some examples: ask a marine force to come with you and flank around the main xeno push, ask a marine to keep an eye out for eggs and report their location so you can just slide by, etc).
I will admit that cryoing you may have been a bit too much, but my main concern is that you weren't playing the role as intended. If you'd like to actively engage in combat, there's other roles you could be playing instead.

I will also go ahead and say each admin has their own way of enforcing the rules, so even if you weren't bwoinked before for it, it doesn't mean it's inherently alright to do it. If you require clarification on whether what you plan to do is alright or not, you could simply ask admins first via an ahelp before acting. If they give you the OK, then no problem. If an admin tells you "no", respecting their ruling.


Additionally;
Gub Gub Gub Gub Gub wrote:Why do you talk like you are wearing a tuxedo at all times? It doesn't make you look smart it just makes you look like a tool.
Please mind your words. Complaints and appeals exist to discuss things formally and with the proper actitude, not to do these sorts of remarks.
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Lewdcifer
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Byond Username: Lewdcifer
Location: Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: [COMPLAINT] [<JeanManche>] <Phobe Stall>

Post by Lewdcifer » #596296

Enough time was given for all involved parties to offer a response. Since there has been none, I will be closing this thread.
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