[Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

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Terrariola
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Byond Username: Terrariola

[Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

Post by Terrariola » #607006

BYOND account: Terrariola.
Character name: Dylan Ewing.
Admin in question: Introverse.
When did it take place: Round started 10:12 PM, UTC+1.
Round ID in which ban was placed: 9838
Evidence: https://imgur.com/2h1wqzf.
Your side of the story:

I was setting up a field bar as CL after getting permission from the Captain. I dragged my booze-o-mat vendor into the Alamo, and went south to get some materials. When I came back, the PO stole a bottle of vodka. I told them to give it back, they refused, I repeated my statement, they refused, etc etc until they got in a Ripley and knocked me unconscious. Admin said this was an "IC issue" and refused to punish, claiming it seemed like an accident (despite them literally being on harm intent and targeting the head).

When I came back to the Alamo after being patched up, half the vendor's contents were on the floor and being looted by marines. I started disarming them and yelling at them to stop taking drinks from my vendor, and one of the marines proceeded to repeatedly smash bottles over my head. I adminhelped, the admin didn't respond until I had given up, deciding to drag the vendor out to the range and destroy it before cryoing; no drinks for rowdy marines. The group of marines followed me, deciding to literally empty out half the vendor as I was dragging it out. I responded by deciding to smash a bottle over the head of one of the marines. The group of marines proceeded to decapitate me and grab the vendor. Immediately after, the admin responded, telling me that I was the first one to use lethal force (somehow) and to let the vendor go. Later, they told me they would make another vendor; an offer I refused - after all, I had just spent 10 minutes fighting over the vendor with marines, and the Alamo was pretty much about to leave. I simply would not have any time to gather up the materials for my field bar, not even taking into account how pissed off I was that the marines got away without punishment.

They (the admin) then told me it was an IC issue. I responded with "This is not a fucking IC issue. At all.", to which they responded "you want me to Pm[sic] each marine drinking and ask them to stop? No".
And thus began half an hour of back-and-forth arguments, ending with the ticket being closed by the admin.
Introverse
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm
Byond Username: Introverse
Location: Canada

Re: [Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

Post by Introverse » #607040

Look I am sorry you are upset and your fun got ruined, but marines taking drinks out of the vendor you announced not to take any from and hitting you with a bottle because you started a shoving match with them is a grey area IC issue because you were retaliating and continuing the tussle after they stopped more than once.

To be clear, you said, "That doesn't excuse the 10 minutes of wasted time and marines literally dying of alcohol poisoning due to these morons." Which I told you is an IC issue and then I said, "you want me to Pm each marine drinking and ask them to stop? No". It was really unclear what you wanted from me about wasted time and drunk marines.

Also don't start shoving matches with a guy in an exosuit over a bottle of vodka, and he won't crush you when he tries to shove you back and SS13 defaults to HARM with riply arms before I can PM them and ask them to return your vodka. From what I saw it looked like he hit you once and then said they were surprised that there was no feedback on it damaging you. On the surface level yes it seems accidental. I would have had the time to PM him about it, but you went back to the alamo and started shoving marines taking your liquor and PM'd me about that.

Simon stopped hitting you multiple times, but you kept coming back to shove them. I even asked Simon to stop hitting you unless you came at them again, because they bottled you while you were down. He agreed to stop. If you had walked away I would have replaced the vendor like I offered and PM'd them about the roughhousing and the others about emptying the vendor (which I did later when I had the chance to do anything else after I closed your ticket), but instead you re-instigated the fight while you dragged your vendor away and punched and bottled two other marines, which someone bottled you for which ended up decapping you. Once you escalated things you broke the rules too, then I have to message you about it. And since you argued with me about it so much I did not have the chance to message any of them while it was relevant.

If you had taken any of the opportunities you had to walk away and let me do my job PMing them and telling them to stop this would have been over. I would have loved to work with you and I would have TP'd you to the planet with whatever materials you need and whatever vendors and special booze you wanted for your bar. Instead you wanted to argue for 40 minutes that you did not escalate things and I could not focus on dealing with the others so I closed the ticket since it was going nowhere. Doing this again I would have spawned in as spacial agent to diffuse the situation before you started hitting them and got decapped. I am sorry your fun was ruined, but next time don't fight back and just let me PM people for what they did. Things just become a messy grey area when you fight back or start shoving people, and it is hard to deal with the issue at the time.
Terrariola
Joined: Thu May 14, 2020 1:04 pm
Byond Username: Terrariola

Re: [Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

Post by Terrariola » #607064

Introverse wrote:Look I am sorry you are upset and your fun got ruined, but marines taking drinks out of the vendor you announced not to take any from and hitting you with a bottle because you started a shoving match with them is a grey area IC issue because you were retaliating and continuing the tussle after they stopped more than once.
They attacked me and continued vending drinks despite repeated warnings. They did not "stop more than once"; in fact, when I tried to put the drinks back, I nearly got killed. That's not a "grey area IC issue", that's blatantly territory for OOC punishment. In fact, if I remember correctly, the sole reason we don't have MPs anymore is because it was decided that any and all violence between those on the same team is to be handled by admins.
Introverse wrote:To be clear, you said, "That doesn't excuse the 10 minutes of wasted time and marines literally dying of alcohol poisoning due to these morons." Which I told you is an IC issue and then I said, "you want me to Pm each marine drinking and ask them to stop? No". It was really unclear what you wanted from me about wasted time and drunk marines.
A mob of people wasted 10 minutes of my time which I intended to spend preparing, then proceeded to get so drunk they literally forced medbay to do surgeries to fix liver damage and revive people. This is a serious problem that should be handled OOC.
Introverse wrote:Also don't start shoving matches with a guy in an exosuit over a bottle of vodka, and he won't crush you when he tries to shove you back and SS13 defaults to HARM with riply arms before I can PM them and ask them to return your vodka. From what I saw it looked like he hit you once and then said they were surprised that there was no feedback on it damaging you. On the surface level yes it seems accidental. I would have had the time to PM him about it, but you went back to the alamo and started shoving marines taking your liquor and PM'd me about that.
Explain how they crushed my skull. They were targeting the head. Nobody does that unless they actively intend to grief.

Introverse wrote:Simon stopped hitting you multiple times, but you kept coming back to shove them. I even asked Simon to stop hitting you unless you came at them again, because they bottled you while you were down. He agreed to stop. If you had walked away I would have replaced the vendor like I offered and PM'd them about the roughhousing and the others about emptying the vendor (which I did later when I had the chance to do anything else after I closed your ticket), but instead you re-instigated the fight while you dragged your vendor away and punched and bottled two other marines, which someone bottled you for which ended up decapping you. Once you escalated things you broke the rules too, then I have to message you about it. And since you argued with me about it so much I did not have the chance to message any of them while it was relevant.
They were continuing to vend drinks and assaulted me when I tried to put them back. When I dragged the vendor outside to destroy it, they vended half its' contents in 5 seconds. From my perspective, they were continuing the fight.
I did not escalate things. They were already using lethal force. I was acting in pure self defense.
Introverse wrote:If you had taken any of the opportunities you had to walk away and let me do my job PMing them and telling them to stop this would have been over. I would have loved to work with you and I would have TP'd you to the planet with whatever materials you need and whatever vendors and special booze you wanted for your bar. Instead you wanted to argue for 40 minutes that you did not escalate things and I could not focus on dealing with the others so I closed the ticket since it was going nowhere. Doing this again I would have spawned in as spacial agent to diffuse the situation before you started hitting them and got decapped. I am sorry your fun was ruined, but next time don't fight back and just let me PM people for what they did. Things just become a messy grey area when you fight back or start shoving people, and it is hard to deal with the issue at the time.
If a marine attacks an SG and steals their gun, should they not attempt to take it back? This is common sense. Regardless, the person who started the fight is always in the wrong, and they started the fight by vending all the drinks and refusing to let me put them back in the vendor.
Introverse
Joined: Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:27 pm
Byond Username: Introverse
Location: Canada

Re: [Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

Post by Introverse » #607082

https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x82ox51 password is 'tgmc'

Here's you re-instigating fights and not walking away, along with a breakdown. It clearly shows you getting up and shoving Simon after he leaves you alone on the ground, and fighting the other two marines after one of them vends your drinks instead of walking away and letting me deal with the issue.
You even assault the marine who drug you away from the fight, and who wasn't vending your drinks either.
Regardless, the person who started the fight is always in the wrong, and they started the fight by vending all the drinks and refusing to let me put them back in the vendor.
You started shoving them so you started the fights instead of walking away, and they finished it. When you shove people, what else do you expect? They are gonna shove or hit you back for it when you start a fight.
And when you keep fighting back that just perpetuates the situation instead of deescalating it and letting me handle the others. You escalated and perpetuated this fight.

If you had just walked away from them emptying the vendor the first time this would be cut and dry, and Simon would have at least had a PM from me for making a mess and the other marine would not have emptied your vendor as you left. Instead you fought back and escalated the situation, which makes it messy and hard to deal with because logs get complicated and they likely would not have hit you if you hadn't been shoving and punching people either. Simon was in the wrong too, but when you also cross the line I can't just message him about it I have to tell you not to escalate too.
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Lewdcifer
TGMC Lead
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 10:59 pm
Byond Username: Lewdcifer
Location: Everywhere and nowhere.

Re: [Introverse] Terrariola - Completely ignoring the rules, adminhelp devolved into nonsense.

Post by Lewdcifer » #607087

Hello. Thank you for taking the time to make this complaint.

It is my understanding that a Pilot Officer stole a bottle of vodka, and you started disarming him so he returned it, then proceeded to attack you 4 times with a Ripley. This is not an IC issue, but rather a case of overescalation by the PO, which is punishable as per our rules.

In regards to the Alamo situation with the vendor, I don't think I need to tell you that it's practically guaranteed that marines will take a drink if you just give them the vendor. An administrator will not tell each and every marine NOT to take a drink from a vendor that's right there, much less tell them to return their drinks, because it's just a headache to handle all of that. However, they can give you a new vendor with renewed contents, which Introverse offered at some point during your ticket. You could've asked for the materials you were missing for your bar, too.

In Introverse's video, I see you repeatedly instigating a fight after getting a bottle to the face from a certain "Simon". You get a bottle to the head and you're stunned for a bit with no major damage. Then you immediately get up, chase Simon, and start spamming disarm on him again. This repeats itself multiple times. At that point, I wouldn't say it's completely undeserved, considering Simon wasn't actively seeking to harm you, but rather only responding when you pursued. You have to understand that - as a response towards your actions - it was warranted, to a degree, though still not okay, which is why Introverse talked to them. From what I can read in the ticket itself, this continued with you trying to move the vendor away, then you got decapped by a bottle to the head. That part was not okay.

Terrariola wrote:A mob of people wasted 10 minutes of my time which I intended to spend preparing, then proceeded to get so drunk they literally forced medbay to do surgeries to fix liver damage and revive people. This is a serious problem that should be handled OOC.
It's not necessarily an OOC issue. It's up to players how they want to spend their round, be it in medbay or somewhere else, and it also gives medbay's personnel some fun.
Terrariola wrote:If a marine attacks an SG and steals their gun, should they not attempt to take it back? This is common sense. Regardless, the person who started the fight is always in the wrong, and they started the fight by vending all the drinks and refusing to let me put them back in the vendor.
A gun is an essential component to a SG, it's literally the defining aspect of their job and it'd be more understandable if a SG tried to get it back and started disarming some dude for it, or maybe even ahelped it. A drinks vendor is nowhere near that level -- you literally put a vendor where everybody could reach it, expected everyone NOT to use it, and when they DID use it, you started disarming everyone left and right until they started retaliating.
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