/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Wow, just don't be a dick you guys :^)
Can't you see that Brotemis is mean if you're a dick? :^)

le sarcasm face
cmon guys let's keep it real ok
snark is one thing but contribute something with substance too maybe? that hasn't been already snarked about?

i think the issue is that brotemis seems to think he's the LAW or something who must remove the horrible criminal scum of /tg/
i believe i remember him quoting rorschach once and i thought that was funny

brotemis seems really authoritarian, always placing his trust behind the admins and their decisions as well as his own decisions as an admin. it really propagates a negative "us vs. them" mentality that shouldn't be seen, in either players or admins, but especially admins. while players can simply spout their bullshit propaganda about the admins, admins do actually have power and an admin with an "us vs. them" mentality would be more prone to abuse or misuse that power.
muting iteq for speaking against you, for example. that's a massive issue.

MrStonedOne wrote:It would be nice if they themselves could follow rule 1.

Dude is abrasive, and I see him coming off as a dick on the forums, (both here and the old ones) and in the few ahelps i've seen from him to other players. He gets away with it because every time that he enters full dick mode, the person or people he is talking to respond back just as abrasively that it covers up bro's own contribution to the escalation of the conversation.


You need to only look at his conduct in his own feedback thread:

Brotemis wrote:Good to see you still have no idea what you're talking about. Why don't I ever see YOU on?


Keep being a shithead, A+ for effort by saying "lacks actual arguments, resorts to ad hom" then ad homs yourself.

In Brotemis' defense the way Tunderchief started this thread off was just fucking stupid and really shitty. Call me crazy but I thought one of the key things to keep in mind while starting off these admin feedback threads was to keep them unbiased. Tunderchief just flat out started it off with some God awful passive aggressive faggotry and bullshit. Starting a thread off with "Hey guys what do you think about x admin by the way he's a complete fuck up and shouldn't be an admin" paints a pretty biased and misleading picture.

Jacough wrote: In Brotemis' defense the way Tunderchief started this thread off was just fucking stupid and really shitty. Call me crazy but I thought one of the key things to keep in mind while starting off these admin feedback threads was to keep them unbiased. Tunderchief just flat out started it off with some God awful passive aggressive faggotry and bullshit. Starting a thread off with "Hey guys what do you think about x admin by the way he's a complete fuck up and shouldn't be an admin" paints a pretty biased and misleading picture.

And yet the last two pages of the thread have been pretty unanimous from multiple people. Brotemis is a dick.

Terbs might be snarky but he IS giving feedback, deleting it is not making things better.

On Brotemis, while he may be a fine admin, his events are usually bad and heavily disrupt the round, not to mention how he blamed the players for his events going south instead of admitting that giving the entire station assault mechs, five guns and antag status might have been a bad move.

Steelpoint wrote:Terbs might be snarky but he IS giving feedback, deleting it is not making things better.

Bro doesn't, nor ever had the power to ban someone from irc.

Nobody on tgstation does.

Rizon is a massive irc network and they don't hand that power out willy nilly.

So nothing brotemis could do could prevent terbs from pming sos on irc. Terbs was either lieing, or being misleading.

Any further discussion on this should be done else where. feel free to pm me.

http://cancer killing /tg/.com/i/s0XtXpnMB5AE
construsive was the word my brain wanted to say but its not a real word

MrStonedOne wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Terbs might be snarky but he IS giving feedback, deleting it is not making things better.

Bro doesn't, nor ever had the power to ban someone from irc.

Nobody on tgstation does.

Rizon is a massive irc network and they don't hand that power out willy nilly.

So nothing brotemis could do could prevent terbs from pming sos on irc. Terbs was either lieing, or being misleading.

Any further discussion on this should be done else where. feel free to pm me.

I think he meant from the channel? #adminbus, probably, where he was discussing. Which is totally different.

Pandarsenic wrote:

MrStonedOne wrote:

Steelpoint wrote:Terbs might be snarky but he IS giving feedback, deleting it is not making things better.

Bro doesn't, nor ever had the power to ban someone from irc.

Nobody on tgstation does.

Rizon is a massive irc network and they don't hand that power out willy nilly.

So nothing brotemis could do could prevent terbs from pming sos on irc. Terbs was either lieing, or being misleading.

Any further discussion on this should be done else where. feel free to pm me.

I think he meant from the channel? #adminbus, probably, where he was discussing. Which is totally different.

yes he banned me from adminbus while i was talking about my shit

i even said "the irc" do i really have to explain it was a channel

I have yet to see an admin resign and actually mean it.

Korphaeron

Ehhhh I'll give you that one.

SirBayer, though he quit before he made fullmin.

Bayer got bullied out trialmin. Also he was still around post-deadminning so.

Most Controversial Person to Hold Admin Status, June all of 2014 all time(?) Too much drama history for that.

Cipher3 wrote:Most Controversial Person to Hold Admin Status, June all of 2014 all time(?) Too much drama history for that.

I know 4 off the top of my head that have been much more controversial.

Badly needs to pull his head and ego out of his own ass and come to terms with the fact that being an administrator involves a certain amount of PR and manners.

Aurx wrote:Badly needs to pull his head and ego out of his own ass and come to terms with the fact that being an administrator involves a certain amount of PR and manners.

this is the main thing.
brotemis, if you haven't abandoned this thread (Honestly? fuck you if you have, that's retarded.) read this and please follow.

I'm supposed to take feedback from people like helios, you, tunderchief and psyentific.

Right.

I'll get back to you when I can find some reliable feedback. Speaking of Aurx and Cipher, I haven't even had time to get on the server lately with my job. So why either of you posted without a specific instance and instead a broad sweeping statement, even if you think you have good intentions, is a question that has yet to be answered.

Admins don't have to read or even respond to shit in their feedback threads, that's not a part of their job at all so

There is a saying. You can polish and shine a piece of shit up. But it's still a piece of shit.

Personally, I don't think feedback threads have really been effective at what they're trying to achieve and has rather turned into a shitpost 2.0, whether it be positive or negative. But that's just my opinion.

Brotemis wrote:I'll get back to you when I can find some reliable feedback. Speaking of Aurx and Cipher, I haven't even had time to get on the server lately with my job. So why either of you posted without a specific instance and instead a broad sweeping statement, even if you think you have good intentions, is a question that has yet to be answered.

I just looked over the posts you have made on these forums as of the time of this post. Of them, a large quantity are aggressive and/or have a VERY condescending tone. I do not feel that your level of outright hostility is becoming of an administrator. You have received feedback on this exact same issue in this thread, and responded to it with more hostility. Your actions or lack thereof on the server have nothing to do with this, this is purely an issue with how you conduct yourself on these forums. And this isn't about any specific instance, it is about your general attitude. I'm not looking for a "Yeah, I messed up there" or a "I said X because Y". What I'm after is a "Yeah, I should give a rat's ass about my PR when I'm representing an entire community from a position of authority." Because when you're an administrator, your tone and actions shape public perception of the entire administrative staff.

On a side note, you've been posting incorrect information in policy threads and refusing to back down on it when confronted by other admins, and I find that to be rather worrisome. If it were a one time thing, well that's natural given how poorly documented policy is. But twice, with at least the second time coming during what you yourself admit to be a period of reduced activity, is unsettling.

Incorrect according to who? I still disagree with HBL on the silicon jobban, but considering he plays a completely different AI that bolts down EVA, secure tech storage, the upload and gravity generator at roundstart every round and is what I could consider to be a powergaming AI, his position on it isn't surprising.

As to the policy on succumbing, it's been like that for a long time, before I was even a player. It makes sense and draws a line. Less "help, assistant mcgriff killed me 4noraisin" and you come to find out he succumbed as soon as he went into crit.

What would be more worrying is that I (try) to maintain a social life and work 45+ hours a week and am still largely one of the most active in game admins according to the admin activity sheet for May.

Brotemis wrote: What would be more worrying is that I (try) to maintain a social life and work 45+ hours a week and am still largely one of the most active in game admins according to the admin activity sheet for May.

"Poor brotemis he spends too much time on spacemans so he has an excuse to be a jerk."

Dude seriously, c'mon thats not an excuse to be snobby and mean like god damn

If you can't be nice and handle all that at once maybe you should consider coming by less often since it stresses you so much

Brotemis wrote:There is a saying. You can polish and shine a piece of shit up. But it's still a piece of shit.

Personally, I don't think feedback threads have really been effective at what they're trying to achieve and has rather turned into a shitpost 2.0, whether it be positive or negative. But that's just my opinion.

youre saying feedback is shitposting

Whenever Brotemis posts about a posts being terrible he produces an even lower quality post somehow.

If he ever replies to himself we are in for a post-apocalyptic world.

Wow I defend your right to not be forced to post in your feedback thread and you call everyone's opinions shitposting, gg brotemis you sure are a classy admin who probably should be headmin 2k14 aoty

You read too much into what people say.

I would rather feedback of actual substance rather than a fluffed up post -a polished turd.

As of yet, the only ones really trying to even give feedback is paprka and aurx. And the post from steelpoint.

Anyway. I doubt I'll post in this shithole of a thread again.

Brotemis wrote:I'm supposed to take feedback from people like helios, you, tunderchief and psyentific.

Right.

yes
you are
holy shit.
This greater-than-thou bullshit is so played out, brotemis. get over yourself.

please point out where in this thread i've given feedback that isn't legitimate. please.
You can't just scream and say "this is all shitposting!!!!" and fuck off, it's not shitposting.
If this is how you go about administrating please quit. please. please.

Jesus I know you said this to me and I don't want to be a hypocrite but stop being a dick

I can understand why I'm disliked by dannos, he's still upset that I resigned and came back. Or Psyentific because I don't like guncargo. Or terbs because he was banned from adminbus because he refused to take it to PM's or the forums as he should and instead kept rejoining after being told what he needs to do and kicked. Helios in general is a shitler and nobody likes being called out (Pot calling kettle black argument).


I get it. But if you want to be taken seriously, you're going to have to put some effort into your complaints or positive comments. "Bromin/10, A+ for adminning" is just as bad as "shitmin, does nothing but idles on the server afk. "


There is no holier than thou attitude, I'm just asking for people to cut the bullshit out.

To terbs, I'm not bemoaning my situation. I'm pointing out that I lead a busy life and am still able to be very active. Where as some admins can't be bothered to show up every once in a while.

A few dedicated admins > more admins but inactive

Brotemis wrote:I can understand why I'm disliked by dannos, he's still upset that I resigned and came back.

Guess that means you can write me off, right?
I haven't even mentioned this in the thread once

Well, if you want an actual complaint instead of just "Brotemis is shit", I can offer one but I would like confirmation first that it would be read and acted upon instead of either deleated because REMOVE SHITPOST! SHIT POST BAD! or responded all defensivly of "NO I AM NOT A BADMIN I AM A GOODMIN" and shit.

If I can get confirmation of that, yeah, I will tell you exactly what the problem with your style of admining is.

youre relating the most unrelated past grievances to people so you can ignore their feedback and act like they only hate you for something that happened a long time ago and is only a minor part of what makes you awful
brotemis you win
there is no point trying to get a message across to you, youre too far gone

miggles wrote:youre relating the most unrelated past grievances to people so you can ignore their feedback and act like they only hate you for something that happened a long time ago and is only a minor part of what makes you awful
brotemis you win
there is no point trying to get a message across to you, youre too far gone

Which is why I am seriously asking if Brotemis will go "Okay yeah, the things that Helios127 just explained to me are very legitament problems and I can actually be a very good admin instead of one of the worst if I work on them, Thanks Helios!" or "NOPE SHITPOST REMOVE BAN GONE" or "NOOOOOO I AM NOT LIKE THAT! I AM THE BEST ADMIN ON THE SITE"

yeah strawmen, so what?

Or you could just make the complaint. It doesn't do you any good to whine about it.

Just the same as Miggles can claim "unrelated past grievances" are unrelated, I can claim they are since they would be my only interactions with them.

To aurx, I don't know where you get your policy information but I know that VG runs tg policy mostly. I also know that the succumbing voiding adminhelps is probably one of the oldest unwritten rule because it usually fell under "Don't be a dick." Which it should probably be in writing now.

It's unwritten because it's a sweeping generalization that doesn't apply in a large number of situations. Very few people have succumb ready and waiting in their chat bar for someone to crit them in any situations of impending death they intend to adminhelp.

Their past grievances with you are not what they are complaining about now. What they are complaining about is your attitude.

You want a real complaint? Someone didn't like what you were doing, they said "Please do this on the other server," and you muted them. From everything except dead chat. Including IC and Emotes. Then complained that I had touched your things when I unmuted him. Really dude? Making someone unable to Say, Emote, Adminhelp, Pray, or speak in OOC because they don't like you being Mech HBL (if Hibbles will forgive the use of his name)? That seems like a good, just, and fair use of your powers?

Okay. Right. Lets go.

Brotemis, You are the worst admin on the site. Hornygranny comes close, but you manage to edge him out by being more active. But you already know this! I suppose the real question is, how or why are you such a shitmin? Lets start with How.

Most of your judgement calls favor the prosecutor, not the defense. You havent made too many new bans that pop up on the new forums, so I dont want to pull up examples (but I will if you just discard this because NO EXAMPLES? NO PROOF OF SHITLARY!) but the few that you have made are very harsh. Maybe this is more of a complaint of the system, but when its something thats 'just unsure' on perma, why not ban someone for a few months instead of DING DONG PERMA?

The seccond thing has made rounds as the 'Brotemis defense' now. When you want someone gone, you will do everything with hell and damnation on your back to pull things right out of your clown hole to make sure they are gone. And when this happens, keep in mind you are ALWAYS RIGHT! and will never, ever back down much in the same manner CDB once did. I bet you want an example of this. Try usednapkin, although to be absolutly fair there were a few other admins (including headmins) on your side.

You have an extremely authoritative view on how things should be run. A stenography of sorts is included right on my sig, but before that on Erros forum you used to delete posts that had a very differing opinion against the admins SHITPOSTS! Yes! Gotta get rid of thoose shitty posts that had a very differing opinion against the admins SHITPOSTS. Now I admit, people putting up dumb image macros when they dont belong? Yeah, thoose are shitposts and should be removed, but ones that say "I disagree with the decision an admin made because X" are not.

Furthermore, I dont see you on too much, and never on Artyom (the server I play) although I suppose thats a blessing rather then a curse. You never do any of the !FUN! event stuff either, but thats more of a general admin complaint rather then against you. You get a pass!

ANOUTHER PASS! YOU CHANGED YOUR AVATAR FROM SOMETHING THAT WAS JUST INSULTING (Creepy Hank Hill, DOTA Dude drinking a mug of "Your Tears") TO SOMETHING THAT ACTUALLY MAKES ME SMILE!

Now for the seccond part: WHY IS BROTEMIS SUCH A BAD ADMIN. I have a theory. You see, CDB did something very bad at the admin party. I dont know what, but he did something very bad. Now, CDB was only an admin so all the bad admin vibes could be kept to one admin that everyone hated. When SoS removed CDBs trialmin status and banned him from sec because of said bad thing, all the badmin vibes had to go to someone, and that someone was unfortunetly you.

You have two responses on how you can take this

HELIOS! YOU ARE WRONG! I AM THE BEST ADMIN ON THE SERVER!
Just resign take a one day vacation. Seriously.

You know what helios, you are right. I am the worst admin on the server. How can I not be so bad?
I am glad you can keep an open mind about this. Okay, well, first off you could be less harsh. Like, much less harsh. Innocent until proven guilty, yknow? But if they are guilty, yeah you can bring the hammer down. Like if a greyshirt goes up and murders someone straight up for no reason? BANNED! But if its one of thoose many questionable situations? Innocent until proven guilty. Now if you catch em lying, give em the chair! Go Old School Bropro on em! GIVE EM THE WOOD!

The other thing is to remove bias as much as humanely possible when it comes to bans. When someone appeals and is legit apoligetic, give em some time off if not unperma outright. You can go hardass if they do the same goddamn shit again, but people have a right to one or two fuckups I feel, and being nicer when it comes to people appealing will probobly go a long way, as otherwise I feel that people may just greif to put a badge of honor of "Lol, B& from TGstation!" on themselves.

Now I do hope you take the latter response to this. If you do, you could be one of the best admins on the site. Maybe even a fullmin! Hell, if you take them to heart, Id vote for you in the headmin elections, I mean I dont know about anyone else but I would! So keep true to yourself, as with great power comes great responsibility!

I'm actually glad you took the time and effort to voice your opinion in a constructive manner.

To the usednapkin note, I heavily disliked the " too cool for rules" attitude, never taking any appeal seriously, general shitposting (I use that term broadly and vaguely) and when he came around to make an actual appeal, I supported an unbanning on the condition smoke wasn't unbanned ( or austin rosello for that matter), as is typical of situations like that. People seem to forget this.

To the prosecution note, I would agree that I seem harsh, but only by the standard of other admins/servers being essentially a foil to me. When someone makes an appeal, more often than not you'll get only half the story and a one sided one as well. I can understand posting things from your perspective but outright lieing, leaving out obvious things important to an appeal or even an adminhelp is something I don't allow.

The point of a permanent ban is more often than not to force someone to make an actual appeal. Its better that way tob deny it and have then make a conscious effort to do so rather than waiting it out. I'd rather not Beardbeard or Bee York return every 3 months. And all things considered, We can easily identify griefers or troublemakers from other servers, so if they start acting up here, things that would normally net a normal ban would earn them a perma.

As to stenography, I still think that place should never come back. Most admins (read: not sawrge) agree. It did more harm to the community than good.

I'm also mostly on Sybil, though I am on Artyom randomly.

If people want events, be specific in your request rather than "something that doesn't kill everyone but is fun for everyone." Ask and ye shall receive.

The your tears was a DOTA avatar which was and always will be a joke, not an insult to anyone. It's funny. As well Hellish Hank Hill

Brotemis wrote:
To the usednapkin note, I heavily disliked the " too cool for rules" attitude, never taking any appeal seriously, general shitposting (I use that term broadly and vaguely) and when he came around to make an actual appeal, I supported an unbanning on the condition smoke wasn't unbanned ( or austin rosello for that matter), as is typical of situations like that. People seem to forget this.

Except, two things.
One, that's hypocritical. You have a style which you take on this board which is the hardass, smart-ass, stern guy or whatever your gimmick is. How is that any different from my fucking lack-i-daisical responses?
Two, you had maybe only 20% of my history and the situation down, saying multiple things wrong when the ban was being handled, yet backing your decision on the false info.
Overall, Brotemis, your pesimistic, know-it-all attitude is fucking shitty. You sound like a fucking elitist all the time. All the fucking time. No one wants to talk with you about anything thats opinionated, because you'll just be fucking hostile. It's like dealing with JLP with Security. Your pride, tunnel vision view, and hostility just make it unbearable. You act like a cunt and people tell you all the time. You say you don't care. That alone just makes you look like an ass. Like seriously, fuck your attitude. It's fucking shit, drop it.

What Napkin means to say is I really hope you take what I said to heart. I really hope your response is not a brushoff, Im going to assume it isnt except for this

To the prosecution note, I would agree that I seem harsh, but only by the standard of other admins/servers being essentially a foil to me.

Now I am trying to not just go the route of "You are shit, leave the server 4ever" route but I need to inturrupt here. You dont seem harsh, you are harsh. So in the future, if you think you seem harsh, ask yourself if you really are.



V AS FOR STENOGRAPHY IF YOU WANT IT OH BOY SO DO I BUT FORUTNETLY WE CAN HAVE STEONOGRAPHY AND NOT HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT IT BEING ADMINED! IMAGINE A WORLD MADE OF SHIT WHERE PEOPLE COULD TALK LIKE RETARFDS AND INSULT BADMINS! AND DO IT ANONYMOUSLY WITHOUT SHIT BEING DELEATED. ITS REAL NOW! V

VVVVVV

tunderchief wrote:Since Brotemis seems to lack a thread, I'll make one until Nik Nak does it proper like.


Brotemis is heavy on the forums, where he mindlessly drones support for any admin actions in question, even when those actions were obviously poorly chosen, and seems to use ad hom a lot to make up for poor arguments.

However, for a Game Admin he seems to never play, and when he is on the server adminwho list, which is rare, he is nearly always afk.

I have never had a prayer answered by him, and I have never seen him do any kind of event.

He is apparently so forgettable that Nik Nak didn't even think to make him his own thread.


Dead weight/10

Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

While Brotemis mind be a hard-ass on occasion, he usually does his job fairly well when he's really needed. I appreciate this.
Just make yourself appear more friendly, and I think everyone would be golden with ya.

An0n3 wrote: Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

I don't think anyone will try and deny that tunder is a tard
But anyone else could have made the thread and it would have gone the same way. Brotemis was like this before tunder made that post, and will be like this forever after apparently
You can't just shit on all of the feedback because one jackass made a shitty post first.

danno wrote:

An0n3 wrote: Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

I don't think anyone will try and deny that tunder is a tard
But anyone else could have made the thread and it would have gone the same way. Brotemis was like this before tunder made that post, and will be like this forever after apparently
You can't just shit on all of the feedback because one jackass made a shitty post first.

Get pooped on, kid.

ho golly the callback
would have maybe been pretty good if it fitted the context or whatever

So now that I actually said all the reasons why Brotemis is the worst admin, can I keep calling him that until/unless he improves?

I mean, unless he is fired or retired HAHAHA YEAH RIGHT AN ADMIN BEING RETIRED OH GOD THATS A GOOD ONE HELIOS. NO ADMIN EVER REALLY QUITS

danno wrote: I don't think anyone will try and deny that tunder is a tard
But anyone else could have made the thread and it would have gone the same way. Brotemis was like this before tunder made that post, and will be like this forever after apparently
You can't just shit on all of the feedback because one jackass made a shitty post first.

I don't think we'll ever know that because every time anyone tries to raise a serious conversation about Brotemis as an admin it immediately turns into a bunch of people calling him names and him giving it back.

It's impossible to determine who is actually the source of this shit. Is he provoking it? Is he responding to it?

I wish I had a more up to date experience on the matter, but beyond that I wish I could somehow get everyone to calm down for a second, wipe the slate clean, and start over again.

My best guess is that a long time ago either he got on someone's nerves or someone got on his nerves and the anger has just surged out from that ever since.

It's ridiculous because a lot of you guys I see hating eachother are people I'm totally cool with, fucking hilarious goodtimes bros I 10/10 would play vidya with. So when I see you guys having it out like this I have to wonder how the hell it came to this and if maybe everyone could just start over again it may turn out better.

I mean, this has been going on for like...what over a year now?

10/10 for how brotemis is handling this, I'm not even being sarcastic you guys take this shit way to serious.

Brotemis and HG should be dual headmins.