/tg/Station 13

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Complaint withdrawn.

Do you play on Artyom/Basil?

Exclusively, yes, though I've only started playing again yesterday. My impression of you is mostly from Ye Olde Days (Late 2013/Early 2014), when I played almost exclusively on Basil, and before that Sibyl2.

I exclusively play on Sibyl now, and I did then. That would be why you never see me.

That explains everything. Complaints withdrawn and posts edited.

Thank you for being reasonable about it.

While in the past I may have disliked him due to various reasons, he is still a very good administrator and does his job well. He is at fault sometimes, but he is only human.

Horrifying avatar but good admin.

Never really had an issue with HG. Recently, he got a lot of flak from people that rarely really seems deserved.

He helped me on IRC so he's a pretty cool guy

His avatar makes me hard

I will describe my opinion of hg in haiku

Pushes all buttons,
both event and human minds,
which earns my respect.

MisterPerson wrote:I will describe my opinion of hg in haiku

Pushes all buttons,
both event and human minds,
which earns my respect.

Thought a Haiku was 3-7-3?
_ _ _ _ _ _ _

Anyway, only really seen HG on forums and have thought there points very valid and well structured. Sometimes they come across a little overly aggressive.

Also they're avatar greatly disturbs me... but I'm sure that's the point. So er... good job?

Alium spawner 40k

He shitposts a lot on my board.

But I like to see him around when I'm playing, since it means we'll likely get an alien event. He's been around long enough that he knows how to push the event buttons well.

hes old as fucking shit

and he has a picture of my balls saved on his hdd

pretty cool guy my balls are burned into his hard disk forever

8/10 admin banned me from #tgstation13 hes alright

I'm a crybaby about him a lot and he's handled it better than I expected. Thank you for fixing changeling.

He hasn't been as shit-terrible as he used to be. Good on you.
oranges do you own singulo.io?? is that what you're talking about? what a piece of shit holy shit dude.

Yeah... basically ditto to what Danno said. At least the parts that made sense.

I would like HG a lot better if he'd knock off the gruff "I don't HAVE to be nice" shit. No excuse for being rude. Otherwise he's fair and does a good job as admin.

It's a bad trend between admins of every game ever. You can get away with it in other games too, so I don't blame them.

An0n3 wrote:Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

I think by now you have seen plenty of examples of what happens when nice admins lose the favor of our fickle community.

did you post in the wrong thread somehow or am I missing something

You are missing something :^)

Even should an administrator lose public favor, I do not feel that excuses them from their role as a prominent figure in the community or from being held to a higher standard of behavior. If a new player arrives, hears that EXAMPLE is a terrible admin, and witnesses EXAMPLE cussing out a player in OOC, their opinion of EXAMPLE will easily match what they have heard. If a new player arrives, hears that EXAMPLE is a terrible admin, and witnesses EXAMPLE calmly responding to a player cussing them out in OOC, they will have reason to doubt what they have heard about EXAMPLE.

Hornygranny wrote:

An0n3 wrote:Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

I think by now you have seen plenty of examples of what happens when nice admins lose the favor of our fickle community.

Yeah, an example of one person who tends to be an idiot being rude toward a very rude admin, that proves all the complaints must be invalid.

It's like how my grandfather was a huge racist(Thus making him an idiot). He also hated hitler. Therefore, hitler's totally cool?

Hah, godwin's law does not exist on a forum where admins regularly call players they don't like "Shitlers" and/or "Literally Hitler". Not to mention, it was actually an apt (and logical) point. Godwin's law is actually meant to apply to stuff like that, for example, if I had said Brotemis is like Hitler because X, that's an example of Godwin's law. I said nothing of the sort, Hitler's just a great example of a universally accepted piece of shit.

But, I'll restate the point without that particular comparison.

Hornygranny wrote:

An0n3 wrote:Considering that this is the start this thread got off to I don't see how any of you can point the finger at Brotemis for being defensive and aggressive in his responses to criticism in the following conversation.
Let's start a discussion thread about any of you that starts with someone calling you a huge piece of shit and see how civil you can be.
"Oh but he's so abrasive. I spent five pages calling him an asshole and he said mean things back to me see? Look how abrasive he is."

I'm not trying to jump in and defend Broty I'm just saying that this is a pretty fucking ridiculous concept. How's anybody supposed to come out of something like this without returning this bullshit in kind?

You talk about anybody like this in a thread like this and it's going to get fucking nuts.

I think by now you have seen plenty of examples of what happens when nice admins lose the favor of our fickle community.

If shit person A says shit person B is shit, for a shit reason, person A's shittiness does not on its own disprove any future allegations of person B's shittiness.

My original example was of a horrible racist calling another horrible racist a piece of shit. Just because the accuser was himself a horrible racist doesn't make the accused less horrible.

So, that same logic applies to HG trying to point out that since Tunder (admins consider him shitty) called Brotemis shitty, Brotemis must therefore not be shitty, since tunder is so shitty. It's a logical fallacy.

Obviously I'm a moron for bothering to write this out, it's just going to get deleted, but at least whoever deletes it will be exposed to a little bit of logic, maybe it'll sink in.

HG you're not supposed to moderate in your own thread, just so you know.

No, damiac, you're a moron because you're wrong. Nothing anybody said has anything to do with the content of Tunderchief's character.

Deleting that post clearly is not against the moderator guidelines, danno. It's not even about me, but I'm not going to delete the discussion because it's nice to have people be wrong publicly.

Wow! Hostile! Even if I'm wrong, I'm not a moron. Geez, that's what was being talked about in the thread you quoted! You and Brotemis are so overly hostile whenever there is any disagreement with someone else. If you think I'm wrong, fine, why do you need to be a jerk about it?

What I meant, and maybe I didn't make my point well, is you're taking this one thing where Brotemis could legitimately respond angrily, and it's being extended to excuse all his hostility. Like, just because Tunder's kinda an idiot, and his reasoning for calling Brotemis hostile is crappy, doesn't mean Brotemis isn't hostile when it's not warranted.

Eh, whatever, this whole discussion, starting with your crosspost of Brotemis's thread, is pretty off topic here, so feel free to remove the whole thing. Or leave it to prove I'm a moron or whatever, it just serves as evidence in the future of your own hostility...

TLDR;
HG and Brotemis: "I'm not needlessly hostile, you fucking retard."

Don't call yourself a moron if you don't want me to agree with you.

damiac wrote:Obviously I'm a moron

damiac I also think they're needlessly hostile but don't further convince them that they aren't by trying to bait them like that

Ahaha, fair enough. Well played HG. You win this round...

You make us all look bad when you do that

That would only be the case if this was an 'us vs them' situation, which it isn't, stop propagating that.

Or "us" as in the community as a whole.

by us all I literally mean us all as in everyone, admins included

Not to be anal yet again but these threads are for hashing out your personal issues with an admin not pitchforking against them with any kind of group mentality.

I wasn't though
I was saying that when people like damiac do shit like try to bait admins it makes everyone as a community look bad
is he an admin

Wait what? I wasn't trying to bait anyone. I didn't realize HG called me a moron because I called myself a moron, until he pointed it out.

I posted in the first place to disagree with the point I thought HG was trying to make with that crosspost from Brotemis' thread, that's all. I made my point, I think HG and Bro are too hostile, but obviously when HG said I was a moron in this thread, it wasn't an example of such, because I totally called myself a moron in the previous post. I like HG's quick wit, I just don't like the condescending attitude that comes with it sometimes.

That's all. A mod should clean up the derail.

Or you could stop rushing into threads trying to propogate the mentality that you say we (As in, HG and I) give off ourselves. The whole forum warrior shtick is old. Why don't you play the game and have actual interactions with us before you make a judgement based on what other people say.

The point, Brotemis, is that most people aren't complaining about your admin skill. They're complaining about how you and HG are assholes.
HG usually makes good bans and doesn't fuck things over too much, and I can respect his judgement as an admin. I cannot respect him as a person because of his rudeness. The same goes for you, though I respect your judgement much less.

That would imply that I care if I hold favor with a fickle forum community that does not represent the playerbase at large who do not interact with me in the game. Or play on the same server. Or even at all

On the real, why should I or anyone else respond to "This guy is a dick. See how I just called him a dick and he told me off after? What a dick. This is legitimate feedback because I called him a dick and told him to not be one."

The feedback forum exists right now as a place to complain without making an admin complaint or a place to make compliments without saying what we actually did well.

Because if someone is calling you a dick, it means you're a fucking dick. Being a dick is not a good thing when you're an admin.
Have you ever noticed that the admins who aren't dicks get less complaints in their threads? Maybe it's because they're not dicks.
This goes for HG as well, but he's actually responded to feedback in at least a minor way. He's much less of a dick than he used to be, which is good.

Admins are expected by most to be held to a higher standard then the players.

This does go for how they take criticism, even 'bad' ones such as "THIS ADMIN SUCKS!". Which I would like to say should just be ignored if its an individual, but taken time to reflect upon if 5 people say it in unison.

Ill probobly write up a "What hornygranny can do to not be such a badmin" guide like I did with Brotemises. I personally see that he is taking his input, which I like.

miggles wrote:Because if someone is calling you a dick, it means you're a fucking dick. Being a dick is not a good thing when you're an admin.
Have you ever noticed that the admins who aren't dicks get less complaints in their threads? Maybe it's because they're not dicks.
This goes for HG as well, but he's actually responded to feedback in at least a minor way. He's much less of a dick than he used to be, which is good.

Thank you for proving my point, dick. Let's not derail this anymore.

why can't you just be a nice person, why are you so against it
people hate you.

I admit that while I do like you a lot Brotemis and consider you a friend... I do have to say that the abrasiveness CAN be more than a little grating at times. But then again, I also believe that with many of the folks you have to deal with, it's kind of Needed. Other than that comment, I abstain from commenting further.

I think what people are trying to say is that being a good admin and being a unlikeable person are mutually exclusive, and that you have to go out of your way to be a "dick". It takes no effort to be indifferent but it takes effort to be a nice person or a hostile, pessimistic person.

What do I think of HG? He's a good admin (He makes good calls for the most part), however his personality is lacking, he's sometimes hostile and exhibits a "us vs them" mentality at times. However, HG is open to feedback and (seemingly) tries to work on his flaws and thus is a more approachable person as of late, in my opinion.

You Brotemis (Going slightly off topic) are a good admin as well, but your personality reeks of elitism and hostility, and to date you show little effort in trying to address these flaws, you defend your actions because you claim this forums represent no real player interest and that these feedback forums are a waste of time.

One piece of advice I would give you, "If you've got nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all".

Saying that it's "needed" to be a dick is a fucking ridiculous, it's a video game.
It is as unnecessary as it is unwanted. Just stop.