2k18 /pol/

[ShadowDimentio]

Bottom post of the previous page:

i hope shadow breaks a law and then gets a nice cold dish of irony

Very rude tbqh I'm a good boy

[leibniz]

leave it to secborg players to defend legislations that were made to increase profit for the private prison industry and not question how its allowed to fuck up someone's life over a mostly harmless drug

>Mostly Harmless

1. some people have a bad reaction to it
2. you shouldnt blaze erry day

[Rustledjimm]

Yeah back in the Jim Crow era, but those laws have long since been removed and these days the overwhelming majority of people in jail were put there for, y'know, doing something wrong.

If it became illegal to own guns would you turn them in?

[Anonmare]

>Using humans for labour
>when it would be cheaper to just automate most of them

There's already a burger-flipping robot and it's only not widespread because it's barely only more expensive than human labour (annual wage vs Robot's price+maintenance)
Give a big enough incentive and most of the jobs will just get automated with few exceptions, illegal immigrant labour is a disincentive because it's hard to get cheaper than that

[Super Aggro Crag]

Robots are stupid and lame

[Screemonster]

the latest social media explosion is some police department in illinois or some shit putting out some statement about how if the state legalised weed they'd have to put down their drug sniffer dogs

"keep letting us lock people up for this or the puppy gets it"

[Anonmare]

The burger flipping robot would be better as a machine than a robot. It has problems of cleaning up after itself, speed and consistent quality or even not dropping the burger. It'll always need a second staff member to take care of its oopsies and general mess that comes from making food. Fast food places tend to go down to a skeleton crew of two minimum and morale/motivation to do the job is going to plummet if you sit up one robot, one real person in the job, especially since communication isn't verbal but on a screen or even worse, on a phone app as even hospitals offload data input into those. It'd probably only exist alongside a gaggle of workers in high traffic locations at peak times unless the electricity really is worth nothing.

Burger in a box from a vending machine would be the ultimate form of automation, though the food quality & presentation will be even more suspect than a local chippy.

It is a machine, it's actually more consistent since it has perfect timing and can cook many more burgers at once.
Add in the fact that it never needs to be paid or take lunch breaks, sick days, vacation days, can work overtime and is incapable of being late or committing crimes or being insubordinate - and you can see why an employer would vastly prefer to automate than hire a non-illegal worker they need to give a full wage and employee benefits to.

To be perfectly frank, I cannot see how anyone who claims to care about human rights would be okay with illegal immigrants working below minimum wage and without the bare minimum of rights mandated to be provided to workers. It reeks of cognitive dissonance

[Anonmare]

Electricity is really cheap though. It's like, ~£0.13 per kilowatt hour and maintenance time and cost is always going to lead to less production lost than a Human getting sick and needing maintenance. It's why a lot of manufacturing is automated now. Plus you don't need a burger flipper to learn anything, if you need it to do something else, just program it in. The only Human that's needed is the supervisor to make sure everything is functioning as intended.
I can't find the article of the place where they were prototyping it, it should be in the 2017 /pol/ thread somewhere, or the 2016 one maybe though.

Also pizza drones already exist

[XSI]

You are legally allowed to shoot drones that come uninvited on your property in some states, so now you get to enjoy a free pizza with every drone shot.

In all seriousness though, I'd rather see the labour be done by drones and machines than by illegals. The drones don't suffer
Not yet at least. I'm sure one of the main uses for AI will be to give the more sadistic managers someone to yell at

[Sometinyprick]

the latest social media explosion is some police department in illinois or some shit putting out some statement about how if the state legalised weed they'd have to put down their drug sniffer dogs

"keep letting us lock people up for this or the puppy gets it"

that sounds like bullshit, if they couldn't afford the dog they would just follow procedure like they do with all the other rejects and give them back to the breeder

[Super Aggro Crag]

They replace our restaurant staff with drones and then they'll give shitty robot service and try to kill all humans when you dont tip em

This was an episode of the x-files

[Super Aggro Crag]

Robots shouldn't be tipped yuropeon

Tipping a human is something that should be done until the law forces companies to pay waiting staff a livable wage

20 dollars an hour for everyone who works

[Takeguru]

Minimum wage increases cause cost of living increases

If the average spending power increases, the average price increases as well

Noticeably worse in cities where the cost of living is already fucking ridiculous for the worse conditions you get

[ShadowDimentio]

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

[Rustledjimm]

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

If guns control was brought into law and you weren't allowed guns would you turn them in.

[ShadowDimentio]

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

If guns control was brought into law and you weren't allowed guns would you turn them in.

Fuck no. Civil disobedience time. Or plain civil war. Either or really.

[Rustledjimm]

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

If guns control was brought into law and you weren't allowed guns would you turn them in.

Fuck no. Civil disobedience time. Or plain civil war. Either or really.

But the law is the law?

[ShadowDimentio]

Off ya got me, guess I gotta submit to tyranny then because they changed the laws.

[Rustledjimm]

Off ya got me, guess I gotta submit to tyranny then because they changed the laws.

checkmate

[Grazyn]

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

If shit was worth something, poor people would be born with no asshole

[ShadowDimentio]

If shit was worth something, poor people would be born with no asshole

I don't get that phrase.

[Grazyn]

It means that the poor have always been so fucked up that nothing will ever help them

[DemonFiren]

please hold your fucking destruction of shadowmemes until I've bought myself some popcorn
all I've got right now is a pack of snyder's and I'm not so sure those are appropriate

[onleavedontatme]

Weed is an illegal substance (except where it isn't). If you don't wanna get jailed for possession don't possess it in the first place.

Maybe so, but the law is the law and you're expected to follow it even if it is dumb. They knew what they were buying was illegal and if they got caught they'd be in trouble.

just don't break the same law three times.

they all knew what they were doing and that it was illegal. They made their bed so now they have to lie in it, as it were.

Off ya got me, guess I gotta submit to tyranny then because they changed the laws.

Do you think actually he doesn't realize or just flat out doesn't care if nothing he says is approaching consistent

[XSI]

Minimum wage increases cause cost of living increases

If the average spending power increases, the average price increases as well

Noticeably worse in cities where the cost of living is already fucking ridiculous for the worse conditions you get

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

Several metastudies have shown that this is not true overall.
Or rather, it is only partially true- Minimum wage increases filter back into cost of living and average price by about ~5% of the wage increase, which still renders it a net improvement for the poor. Inflation doesn't come from this either, that's something else entirely and will always happen anyway.
Several studies have shown a price decrease, but they are outliers. At the same time, several studies had shown price increases of 50%+, but once again outliers. The majority had price increases of ~2% to ~8%

The ones who do have to worry are the middle class, who see no such improvement but do see the minor price increases. Once isn't a problem for them, twice isn't, but it adds up over time and if they're unlucky they'll find themselves being poor.
And no, I can't be arsed to look it up.
You don't have to take my word for it either, I'm just going to say that it doesn't work that way and then do something more productive

tl;dr Minimum wage increase does not make everything more expensive to the point of being counterproductive

[Sometinyprick]

"Hey this law is really stupid, it's just an excuse to fill up prisons and arrest people who aren't really being that harmful to society"
"But the law is the law! they should know better and not do it!"
"But what if they banned [insert thing your passionate about]"
"Then that's fucking tyranny and I'm going to go murder people because of it"
"But it's the law!"

The point everyone is trying to make to SD is that some laws are fucking stupid and passively accepting something because it's the "law" is fucking stupid.

[Grazyn]

Next Eurovision will be in Israel, as long as Israel is still there by then

this is the song btw

[youtube]84LBjXaeKk4[/youtube]

I don't think it deserved to win but this is Eurovision, the freakiest one wins

[cedarbridge]

Yeah back in the Jim Crow era, but those laws have long since been removed and these days the overwhelming majority of people in jail were put there for, y'know, doing something wrong.

Since the Bush presidency(Junior, the latest bush), laws do not necessarily need to be public because something something national security. Don't want to get arrested over a law you didn't know existed? Shouldn't have broken that law.

While it is true that you are still culpable for breaking a law even if you did not know it was against the law to do the thing you did (this is not a principal that came out of the Bush era and has nothing to do with national security) I'm going to need a citation on the "laws don't have to be public." Any law in the United States that fails to put on-notice the defendant as to what conduct is prohibited is per-se Void. This is distinct from mere ignorance of the law as every Title of the US code is on public display. Its pretty unlikely that any given person does or practically could sit down and memorize all of it, but the Justice system works on a presumption that if a person doesn't know if something is legal or not they can consult the publicly posted law records or consult a lawyer before doing whatever it is that might run aground with the law. Naturally this means that more complicated laws are more likely to run against people who cannot afford the ear of an attorney, but we have legal aid services in most states for that purpose. There's no provision in American law that empowers the government to pass laws and just forget to tell anyone about it until its time to throw people they don't like in jail.

[Super Aggro Crag]

How can israel be in eurovision if israel is in asia

[Super Aggro Crag]

How can israel be in eurovision if israel is in asia

[Grazyn]

Australia was in eurovision as well and it's in oceania

Everyone can participate as long as their singers are freakish enough

[Malkevin]

Eurovision isn't about Europe, Eurovision is about Euro's Vision - which is to let every cunt into Europe if they're enough a degenerate to ruin 3000 years of history.

[Screemonster]

I've heard it said that eurovision is europe's social media revenge against america for not shutting the fuck up about the superbowl and aussies are allowed to join in just 'cause of a proud australian tradition of fucking with the seppos

[Grazyn]

Well I mean, the winner is an ugly obese Jewish girl singing lines like "Look at me, I'm a beautiful creature" "I'm not your toy, you stupid boy" and "Wonder Woman don't you ever forget", it's something right out of a /pol/ fanfic

[ShadowDimentio]

Minimum wage increases cause cost of living increases

If the average spending power increases, the average price increases as well

Noticeably worse in cities where the cost of living is already fucking ridiculous for the worse conditions you get

I used to believe in increasing the minimum wage but my economics professor explained in class once that doing that wouldn't help people not be poor.

Several metastudies have shown that this is not true overall.
Or rather, it is only partially true- Minimum wage increases filter back into cost of living and average price by about ~5% of the wage increase, which still renders it a net improvement for the poor. Inflation doesn't come from this either, that's something else entirely and will always happen anyway.
Several studies have shown a price decrease, but they are outliers. At the same time, several studies had shown price increases of 50%+, but once again outliers. The majority had price increases of ~2% to ~8%

The ones who do have to worry are the middle class, who see no such improvement but do see the minor price increases. Once isn't a problem for them, twice isn't, but it adds up over time and if they're unlucky they'll find themselves being poor.
And no, I can't be arsed to look it up.
You don't have to take my word for it either, I'm just going to say that it doesn't work that way and then do something more productive

tl;dr Minimum wage increase does not make everything more expensive to the point of being counterproductive

Except increasing the minimum wage doesn't just do that, it also encourages automation. There's pretty much no minimum wage job that couldn't easily be done better with robots, the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because it's very slightly cheaper to continue hiring people. But that changes if you bump up minimum wage.

[XSI]

(Stuff on non-public laws)

Yeah, it's an odd single case about someone photographing an unmarked national security related building. I vaguely remember that this was a case and they were going to go to court and then...Nothing. No further information available on it, so I guess the media got bored and decided it wasn't important.
That was a point brought up during the reporting though

As for Eurovision, it's a joke with pre-decided winners and losers, putting on a show purely for entertainment much like wrestling. Everything about it gets better when you stop taking it seriously and just enjoy wondering why it seems like satire has merged with reality

[XSI]

Except increasing the minimum wage doesn't just do that, it also encourages automation. There's pretty much no minimum wage job that couldn't easily be done better with robots, the only reason it hasn't happened yet is because it's very slightly cheaper to continue hiring people. But that changes if you bump up minimum wage.

>Encouraging automation
This is a good thing, really

[ShadowDimentio]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

[Rustledjimm]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

Throughout the centuries jobs have slowly been automated. Everytime automation increases other jobs are opened up.

You are the kind of person back in the 19th century shouting about how everyone will be out of a job if farming becomes more automated. All the tailors will be out of a job once factories start producing clothes faster and better. etc. etc.

All you need to do to become a Luddite would be to start smashing computers.

[ColonicAcid]

Cant wait to see shadowdimentio on the front lines of the civil war when his guns get taken away.

[Screemonster]

in shadow's world if someone invented a fucking star-trek replicator and ushered in a new post-scarcity era where nobody had to work unless they wanted to, he'd call it a bad thing because it would eliminate jobs

[ShadowDimentio]

in shadow's world if someone invented a fucking star-trek replicator and ushered in a new post-scarcity era where nobody had to work unless they wanted to, he'd call it a bad thing because it would eliminate jobs

No I wouldn't you mongoloids.

[Rustledjimm]

in shadow's world if someone invented a fucking star-trek replicator and ushered in a new post-scarcity era where nobody had to work unless they wanted to, he'd call it a bad thing because it would eliminate jobs

No I wouldn't you mongoloids.

We're just basing this off what you've said previously. You keep saying dumn and stupid things so it's only natural we think you'd have dumb and stupid responses to other things.

Then again you are also a hypocrite so maybe this is just another instance of your own personal hypocrisy.

[ShadowDimentio]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

Throughout the centuries jobs have slowly been automated. Everytime automation increases other jobs are opened up.

You are the kind of person back in the 19th century shouting about how everyone will be out of a job if farming becomes more automated. All the tailors will be out of a job once factories start producing clothes faster and better. etc. etc.

I mean neither of those things are untrue. Virtually nobody is employed as a farmer any more. The industry is infinitely more efficient, but farmers did lose their jobs when things got automated, which was my point.

[Sometinyprick]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

Throughout the centuries jobs have slowly been automated. Everytime automation increases other jobs are opened up.

You are the kind of person back in the 19th century shouting about how everyone will be out of a job if farming becomes more automated. All the tailors will be out of a job once factories start producing clothes faster and better. etc. etc.

I mean neither of those things are untrue. Virtually nobody is employed as a farmer any more. The industry is infinitely more efficient, but farmers did lose their jobs when things got automated, which was my point.

1/4 of the worlds population is still employed in agriculture.

EDIT
To clarify, 1/4 of the total people employed work in agriculture roughly according to the world bank.

[Malkevin]

Hm... come to think of it the corporate mouthpiece media has been saying automation is a good thing right as they finally allow the questioning of immigration.

Guess we don't need cheap brown people when robots work for free.

[Rustledjimm]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

Throughout the centuries jobs have slowly been automated. Everytime automation increases other jobs are opened up.

You are the kind of person back in the 19th century shouting about how everyone will be out of a job if farming becomes more automated. All the tailors will be out of a job once factories start producing clothes faster and better. etc. etc.

I mean neither of those things are untrue. Virtually nobody is employed as a farmer any more. The industry is infinitely more efficient, but farmers did lose their jobs when things got automated, which was my point.

>It's ok because with any jobs lost we always find new jobs
>YOU ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT JOBS ARE LOST
>ignores the part about new jobs

:strongthinking:

[XSI]

How about we first stop the myth that population growth is a good thing?

We do not need more people. At all. It doesn't do anything good for the common man

[Lazengann]

It is, but those minimum wage jobs aren't coming back once the hammer of automation falls, and then instead of them having a shitty job they'll have no job.

Throughout the centuries jobs have slowly been automated. Everytime automation increases other jobs are opened up.

You are the kind of person back in the 19th century shouting about how everyone will be out of a job if farming becomes more automated. All the tailors will be out of a job once factories start producing clothes faster and better. etc. etc.

I mean neither of those things are untrue. Virtually nobody is employed as a farmer any more. The industry is infinitely more efficient, but farmers did lose their jobs when things got automated, which was my point.

>It's ok because with any jobs lost we always find new jobs
>YOU ADMITTED I WAS RIGHT JOBS ARE LOST
>ignores the part about new jobs

:strongthinking:

Not all jobs are created equal sir, if a manufacturing plant closes and a McDonald's opens in their place then I'm not going to tell the former craftsmen "at least you have a job"

And then there's the classic "turn a 40 hour job into two 20 hour jobs and brag about how many people are employed"

[XSI]

Why do two 20 hour jobs when you can do four 10 hour jobs without benefits and overtime?

Capitalism ho!

[ColonicAcid]

its true the fact that jobs being automated creates jobs, but not at the rate we need them to and that's completely missing the fact that those are usually jobs that are white collar, highly specialised and highly educated.

the problem right now with your technology singularity is that our current education system is not suited for the constant changing workplace. if we do not find a solution to this problem we're going to have to stay in constant higher education just to keep specialising more and more as automation takes over virtually every industry bar the very, very niche.

a universal income would solve some of these problems but even that still has its faults. however if smarter, and more experienced people are telling me that universal income is a good first step to tackling the problem of automation then im going to listen to them