/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I saw an interview with Farage the other day, he said what we shouldn't done was sod the eu politicians and went straight to negotiating with eu businesses, let them put pressure on their politicians.

Great idea, what a shame he threw in the towel after winning and proceeded to be useless

Lol!

Well if you keep going -180% you'll eventually do a counter clockwise revolution.

Why didn't May get sacked by her own party for the total fuckup that was the early election? Do they want her to bear the full burn of Brexit as some sort of cancerous scapegoat?

To be fair, the entire brexit thing seems to be

"Democrasy woo!"
"Wait, shit, the people voted in a way we dont like. Ask them again"
"What if we say we do it but in practice we just don't?"
"Fuck it, hope they stop talking about it."

And so Brexit meant that the UK would only officially leave the EU, but will in practice just stay in and accept everything the EU demands of them
So it makes a lot of sense for them to quit if that's the deal. Your politicians have already decided they will not brexit. They're just trying to find a way to make it seem like they will

except it's the other way around
the people don't want it anymore
the politicians are doing it anyway because uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuh what are we supposed to do

Reminder that enough old people will have died and enough young people eligible to vote that if voting demographics stayed the exact same as before it'd be a Remain majority by December this year.

too bad young people didn't vote anyway because they thought remain would've won, or they voted brexit just to troll

I would still vote Leave because I see the EU as a threat to our independence.

Lol Jim, the youth are increasingly fed up of left wing rhetoric

Malkevin wrote:Lol Jim, the youth are increasingly fed up of left wing rhetoric

"the youth" don't exist
but the closest you can get to "the youth" is sick of all fringe political bullshit
it's just that the right are far more obvious in their bullshittery and so "the youth" are, in fact, increasingly fed up with right-wing rhethoric

The only unions I'm okay with are the ones where we're in charge, accept no substitute.

I'd rather everybody lose if we can't win.

European union more like fourth reich

i need to escape screaming pumpkin demon

I'm a "stand atop everyone else's bodies planting the Flag" kind of guy

It's not enough to succeed, others must fail

BEGONE THOT

Do what thou wilt shalt be the whole of the law

>redditors
>anti-right

might I inform you about the existence of a certain popular subreddit called the_donald

Every other even vaguely political forum on digg besides T_D (which is basically just a quarantine) is absolutely chock full of extremely far left sorts. Trying to say that isn't the case because T_D exists is a shit argument and you know it baka boy.

At least there's a white man in London now then

Even if he's not a great example

>Orange

Also can confirm digg is full of lefties, I made an unpc joke on something on the front page and was down voted to oblivion

I was just stating facts Malkevin. If voting % by demographic stayed the same enough old people would have died by December to change the vote outcome.

France should show up at the final with an all-african starting line-up just to trigger altrighters

Hearing about how bad Brexit is going is hilarious

Come on, a Leave vote passed, stop fucking around and get on it

Basically we're going to still follow EU rules without having a say in how they are made or what they are.

We just shouldn't leave. Not with the U.S also going the way it is, I'd rather follow EU food/consumer/worker standards than USA standards.

>Implying you have a say either way

European union bad

CosmicScientist wrote:

ShadowDimentio wrote:>Implying you have a say either way

Apparently we had a say in making the EU precisely what everyone against it is afraid of. Bigger. Controlling. Irrevocable human rights.

e.g. LOOK AT THESE BAD COUNTRIES THAT MIGHT JOIN THE EU, btw promoting Turkey to join the EU despite them not meeting the required standards of not being shit.

Or European

May as well invite Russia if Turkey can get in

Turkey in Europe is an old meme, it died after Erdogan went full islamic dictator

Turkey was never going to join the EU. Too many nations, Germany and France included I believe, were against it.

Strangely enough one of the nations pushing for their entry was.... the UK government.

If the UK really is serious about leaving (drafting a reasonable deal is a whole other matter), the EU is on borrowed time. I understand that Euroskepticism is on the rise in Italy, and Greece is pretty pissed at the EU too. I think my favorite part is how Euroskeptics are painted as a bunch of fringe right-wingers when the original ones were leftists from Greece.

My original stance on Brexit was "the UK should probably leave but it sucks that it came to this" but after seeing how the EU is acting like an abusive ex towards the UK, they need to get the fuck out ASAP

Thats all mentally unstable people
If they can't control you, they'll try to ruin you

Why would this ever not apply to organisations run by mentally unstable people? It only makes sense

I don't really see how the EU is being abusive.

Like the UK government trying to get the best deal for the British people the EU is trying to get the best deal for it's citizens.

Yeah the EU has no obligation to provide the best deal for the UK, they are the ones who chose to leave. Also there are other countries that have tight deals with the EU while not part of the EU, like Norway. Obviously just like Norway they'd have no say in other EU regulations, but that's to be expected since, well, they are NOT PART OF THE EU ANYMORE. You wouldn't call your ex "abusive" because they let you live in the apartment (after you dumped them) but they refuse to have sex with you and demand you sleep on the couch. I really don't understand what the UK wants, it's like anything short of "we want exactly the same things we used to have while in the EU" is the EU being abusive to them.

They should've prepared a safety net before brexit, maybe wait until after the US election and make sure they had a good deal with North American states in case brexit went through, now they'll have to beg Trump and accept any condition if things fall out with the EU.

If anything it's the UK being abusive and selfish. Those supporting Brexit want to have their cake and eat it. Our government has made no decent plans, made no sensible decisions, given little good input into the negotiations. They have destablised the union in Northern Ireland, Scotland and even Wales to different degrees. Nobody will be happy at the end of this, everyone will be worse off. It's the biggest political gaffe of the modern era in British politics certainly. It's been a disgrace to watch this government and this opposition. 52% of the electorate 2 years ago voted to leave the EU, among those 52% were wildly different ideas of what leaving the EU meant. Especially considering it's been confirmed that Leave.EU not only lied in the run up to the referendum but also broke electoral rules and regulations regarding funding etc.

It's been an absolute sham and has only hardened my will to see an independent Scotland from Westminster.

the eu is being abusive because we're actually carefully considering whether to give in to the brits' bawling instead of bending over lmao

The SNP are the only party I can vote for as they are the party that aligns most with my own personal views even without independence on the cards. The two party system in Westminster is clearly poor for our democracy. The only thing that would stop me supporting independence right now is full electoral reform to some form of PR.

Grazyn wrote:You wouldn't call your ex "abusive" because they let you live in the apartment (after you dumped them) but they refuse to have sex with you and demand you sleep on the couch.

to be fair I'm sure a lot of people in this thread would call that abusive due to tfw no gf

Rustledjimm wrote:Our government has made no decent plans, made no sensible decisions, given little good input into the negotiations. They have destablised the union in Northern Ireland, Scotland and even Wales to different degrees..

This is the big problem. Government hasn't done a single good thing about the whole brexit case and they're still pretending it isn't really happening. Which does not help their negotiation position in the slightest
And thanks to this, the EU decided that it would be able to demand Britain complies with all EU laws and rules but without any sort of input. This is not even demanded from Switzerland or Norway, who also do business with the EU and have separate agreements governing their access to the markets that are much less of a pain than anything proposed to the UK

They are very much putting pressure on the UK and trying to make the deal as bad as possible for them even to the point of possibly hurting their own economic interests just to set an example for anyone who may be considering to leave as well, and that is indeed abusive.
Imagine sharing your backyard with the neighbours. Slowly over time you get more agreements to share parts of the backyards and things go well. So then after a while, you've removed the fences and you're all using a big shared backyard. Then one guy decides he doesn't like that and wants to put his fence back and backs out of the shared garden.
The EU then declares that they will continue to have free access to the now fenced off garden using every single agreement made before this or there will be no deal whatsoever.
There is no way to negotiate with someone who has already said they won't negotiate. And if you bring the most inept failures in the field of negotiation for it then they won't change their stance either

And yet all of this could have been avoided if the politicians didn't just ignore large chunks of the population to try to force their own ideals, but of course that's common in every crisis or political problem

Two party systems are the chemo-resistant cancer that plagues democracies

It's one thing for the EU to not want the UK to leave and to bargain in their own best interest, it's another for them to take what would appear to be punitive action against the UK in what I can only perceive to be an attempt to intimidate other member states into remaining. The EU is not a sovereign state or any kind of federation, it is a voluntary association of sovereign states. If a state wishes to leave, the EU has no right to stop them. I'm an American and I have pretty strong libertarian leanings when it comes to this stuff, so my bias should be obvious, but I don't think that it's at all unreasonable to call an organization that can impose regulations on member states against the will of their citizens undemocratic.


Also, May is so bad that I'm beginning to think that Corbyn would do a better job of negotiating a deal. Worst case scenario for the UK is a short to medium length recession. Europe might cut them off, but the commonwealth countries and Asia will happily trade with them. Worst case scenario for the EU is the collapse of their organization with the second largest economy in it leaving, a massive morale boost for Euroskeptics that could trigger a domino effect, and the loss of a massive trading partner. You do not bargain like May is when you are the one in a position of strength.

Surely you've heard of May's draft agreement. It's basically the opposite of what everyone who supported Brexit wanted

CosmicScientist wrote:Firstly
>libertarian instead of liberal

Liberalism is different to libertarianism, they're not interchangeable words.

The distances of our non-eu trade partners is irrelevant, our major industry is the financial services sector and thus trade happens via phone/internet and happens at light speed.

Luke Cox wrote:It's one thing for the EU to not want the UK to leave and to bargain in their own best interest, it's another for them to take what would appear to be punitive action against the UK in what I can only perceive to be an attempt to intimidate other member states into remaining. The EU is not a sovereign state or any kind of federation, it is a voluntary association of sovereign states.

The USA is (was) also a voluntary union, but when a number of states thought they weren't getting treated fairly and tried to enact their right to secede the union the president made up an excuse of "mah slaves" and ordered an invasion of the 'rebel' states.

And there we have it, the plan is revealed

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-brit ... SKBN1K412G

May warns rebels - Back me or risk 'no Brexit at all'

The people thought they could make things happen by voting? Haha silly peasants, your rulers decided long ago!

Malkevin wrote:

CosmicScientist wrote:Firstly
>libertarian instead of liberal

Liberalism is different to libertarianism, they're not interchangeable words.

The distances of our non-eu trade partners is irrelevant, our major industry is the financial services sector and thus trade happens via phone/internet and happens at light speed.

Luke Cox wrote:It's one thing for the EU to not want the UK to leave and to bargain in their own best interest, it's another for them to take what would appear to be punitive action against the UK in what I can only perceive to be an attempt to intimidate other member states into remaining. The EU is not a sovereign state or any kind of federation, it is a voluntary association of sovereign states.

The USA is (was) also a voluntary union, but when a number of states thought they weren't getting treated fairly and tried to enact their right to secede the union the president made up an excuse of "mah slaves" and ordered an invasion of the 'rebel' states.

To be fair to CosmicScientist, "liberal" basically means "libertarian" in most parts of the world. Personally, I'd call myself a center-left libertarian.

I'm not sure that the civil war is the most appropriate analogy to use. Those states knew exactly what they were getting into, and chose to become part of a sovereign nation state democratically. EU members were told that they were becoming part of a voluntary trade bloc, has grown grossly beyond its original scope, and exerts undue authority on its member states in an undemocratic manner. Every single citizen of a member state could be against a resolution, regulation, etc, but if the EU parliament votes in favor of it, their options are to get fucked or kill themselves. The EU isn't a state. It does not have any legitimate authority over member countries. It was fine when the EU was mostly concerned with things like international commerce and diplomacy, but the line for me is drawn at it meddling in domestic policy.

You are absolutely correct about the trade issue though. Firstly, distance means jack shit in the age of globalization. That argument might have made sense in the 70s, but things like the internet and container shipping have rendered it irrelevant. Additionally, there is now way in hell that the EU is going to cut out the 5th biggest economy on Earth. It's just not fucking happening.

XSI wrote:And there we have it, the plan is revealed

https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-brit ... SKBN1K412G

May warns rebels - Back me or risk 'no Brexit at all'

The people thought they could make things happen by voting? Haha silly peasants, your rulers decided long ago!

I can't imagine any scenario in which this doesn't end in a vote of no confidence being held. Labor is already against Brexit, but even Corbyn is willing to respect the referendum. It's obvious that May is attempting to sabotage the agreement. She already cost them a ton of seats in parliament with her pants-on-head election call and platform, and now this. It's not a question of if she goes, but when.

Luke Cox wrote:Surely you've heard of May's draft agreement. It's basically the opposite of what everyone who supported Brexit wanted

Except people who wanted Brexit had a very wide range of wants. Many of them have completely unworkable wants and wanted their cake and to eat it. Some voted wanting an EFTA style arrangement, forty percent of Leave voters believed it was possibly to stay in the Single Market yet lose Freedom of Movement. Something the EU said time and time again was incompatible. There was and is no consensus among those who voted Leave about what they really wanted.

I'm an American

Ah, this explains why a lot of your ideas seem weird and disconnected from what's actually happening over here. I do wonder how U.S news even covers this.

Worst case scenario for the EU is the collapse of their organization with the second largest economy in it leaving, a massive morale boost for Euroskeptics that could trigger a domino effect, and the loss of a massive trading partner. You do not bargain like May is when you are the one in a position of strength.

If we haven't heard this again and again from eurosceptics


The fact of the trade isn't distance it's the lowering of standards that worries the population. For a trade deal with USA or India would require lowering our industry and food standards, something that very few want to happen.

>Brexit deal
I'll admit that there were definitely a wide range of demands when it came to Brexit, and in my opinion that's what makes the deal all the more baffling. It's like May hand-picked the worst of both worlds. Freedom of movement was probably the biggest unifying factor (marketing it as "muh refugees" was a mistake imo. Should have been about sovereignty and negotiating favorable trade deals from day 1), but so was not having to follow most of the EU's rules. After all, why would you abide by laws you have no say in? It almost looks like May is trying to sabotage it.

>muh American
lol ad hominem

>trade and standards
America has pretty decent standards as it is, and trading with the likes of China and Mexico has done very little to lower them. Not sure what you think is going on here. You are from Europe though, which explains why a lot of your ideas seem weird and disconnected from what's actually happening over here. I do wonder how European news even covers this. Seriously though, while I wish that some of the regulations were a touch more stringent, the European view of how shit works in America is grossly distorted. There are actually things you're not allowed to do in America.

Again, the UK is the 5th biggest economy on Earth, which is not an insignificant thing. Contrary to what a lot of the pro-remainers are espousing, all of these countries will be drooling to get trade deals with the UK that can be negotiated without the EU. The UK is in a position to be making demands here. Same goes for the US. You don't self-flagellate yourself when you're one of the big boys. The UK economy is surpassing the doom-and-gloom brexit projections, which should be everyone's first hint.

Luke Cox wrote:
>trade and standards
America has pretty decent standards as it is, .

t. American with pink slime and unvaccinated chickens. No, we don't want your lowered standards which have been listed as a basic requirement for any Free Trade deal along with the opening up of our National Health Service to American companies. Sorry. Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery, thank you.

all of these countries will be drooling to get trade deals with the UK that can be negotiated without the EU.

Drooling because we are currently desperate for trade deals and so be far willing to accept deals more in their favour? Well obviously.

Should have been about sovereignty

The UK government has always been sovereign, even most Leave campaigners admitted this.

Luke Cox wrote: >muh American
lol ad hominem

[...]

You are from Europe though, which explains why a lot of your ideas seem weird and disconnected from what's actually happening over here.

Why do you hate america jimm