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Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:45 pm
by ShadowDimentio
Rustledjimm wrote:The fact of the trade isn't distance it's the lowering of standards that worries the population. For a trade deal with USA or India would require lowering our industry and food standards, something that very few want to happen.


What? Why? Why would India or the US object to higher quality goods coming into their countries?

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:52 pm
by Lazengann
You have it backwards, the UK would need to stop objecting to lower quality food getting sent to their own country.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 3:52 pm
by Iatots
Dumb shadow, how quickly you forgot about TPP and TTIP. Must all the chinese piss ammonia in your chicken impairing your brain.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 5:55 pm
by Grazyn
My personal favourite, sawdust parmesan

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 6:25 pm
by DemonFiren
CosmicScientist wrote:>ruining European chocolate

this is why I hate america

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:15 pm
by Super Aggro Crag
:( demonfiren

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 10:07 pm
by Lazengann
It's wood pulp not sawdust

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:32 pm
by Luke Cox
Why are people acting as if the UK isn't in any position to make demands when it comes to these trade deals? The world's 5th biggest market is going to be ripe for the picking. The EU's share of the UK's trade has steadily dropped over the past 10 years, and the trend is continuing. It baffles me how people are acting like the UK will have to bend over and take cheap Chinese goods up the ass. Being unshackled from the EU will give them a ton of leverage in trade deals. They can demand that goods meet certain quality standards.


Yes, it'll be scary at first. It's a big shift from the status quo for the UK. But in the long run, they stand to gain a ton.

Edit: Another point I forgot to mention, the US is firmly siding with the UK in Brexit. I've heard that some European politicians are terrified that Trump will pull troops out of Europe if things go south on the Brexit deal. Whether the rumors are true or not, it's definitely on the table, and definitely something that will be in the back of the EU's head.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:39 pm
by Rustledjimm
Luke Cox wrote:
Edit: Another point I forgot to mention, the US is firmly siding with the UK in Brexit. I've heard that some European politicians are terrified that Trump will pull troops out of Europe if things go south on the Brexit deal. Whether the rumors are true or not, it's definitely on the table, and definitely something that will be in the back of the EU's head.


Jesus christ what are they telling you in the U.S?

Edit: did they mention pigs fly too?

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:42 pm
by Luke Cox
Knowing his track record, do you honestly believe Trump isn't crazy enough to do that?

Also, >literally no arguments

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:47 pm
by Rustledjimm
i'm busy raiding sorry I cannot refute every single point of your relatively ignorant posts.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:01 am
by Luke Cox
>More ad hominems

On a related note, I cannot for the life of me understand how so many Brits can simultaneously have this defeatist attitude for their own country, yet act so condescendingly towards Americans. I'll be the first to admit that America isn't some magical utopia and that we have plenty of asinine problems that need to be addressed, but your house is hardly in order either. You've seen an uptick in crime, are in the midst of a refugee crisis, are arresting people for "hate speech" online, and apparently can't negotiate despite having the upper ground. Five years ago I would say that the UK was in better shape than the US, but that isn't the case today. It's not because the US has shot ahead, it's because the UK is slowly going to shit. It doesn't have be that way, and I think that the British people are more than capable of fixing their country.


If you don't want to engage with my "relatively ignorant posts" that's fine, but it looks like you do and you'd rather keep slinging "hurr dur American" ad hominems. I don't look down on Brits, but you seem to think that me being American means that I can't have a valid opinion on this.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:07 am
by Super Aggro Crag
Yeah we should be able to say what we want in here considering cosmic scientist turned this into some sort of UNGLANDPOL GENERAL. Just like you infernal anglos to try and colonize and oppress every1 >:o

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:11 am
by DemonFiren
coxposts are like less blatantly stupid but equally wrong shadowposts
this is comedy central

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:14 am
by Luke Cox
Shadow is the kind of person where the central premise can hold some ground, but the accompanying arguments retroactively make it retarded

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:16 am
by Rustledjimm
You're making the mistake of thinking I'm saying Americans are ignorant.

No I'm just saying you are.

edit: still raiding btw I'm not ignoring your arguments I'm just too busy to do more than state how ill-informed your posts are.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:22 am
by ShadowDimentio
Luke Cox wrote:Shadow is the kind of person where the central premise can hold some ground, but the accompanying arguments retroactively make it retarded


I make good argument FUCK YOU I'M GOING HOME AND TELLING MOM

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 12:24 am
by Luke Cox
We'll probably have to agree on Brexit then. I dont't think it's the end of the world for the UK, and I think that you guys could have a lot to gain long-term.


On a lighter note, here's the baby Trump "blimp": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=10x49T4oAzY

$40,000 dollars for that

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 1:13 am
by Super Aggro Crag
DemonFiren wrote:coxposts are like less blatantly stupid but equally wrong shadowposts
this is comedy central

Rate my posts please

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:02 am
by ShadowDimentio
Super Aggro Crag wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:coxposts are like less blatantly stupid but equally wrong shadowposts
this is comedy central

Rate my posts please


You insulted me once so you get a bad rating/10

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:35 am
by DemonFiren
Super Aggro Crag wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:coxposts are like less blatantly stupid but equally wrong shadowposts
this is comedy central

Rate my posts please

your /pol/posts are incredibly obvious bait
which is kind of refreshing

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:51 am
by Luke Cox
Everyone knows that in /Pol/, "stupid" means "opinion I disagree with"

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 2:54 am
by Super Aggro Crag
DemonFiren wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:coxposts are like less blatantly stupid but equally wrong shadowposts
this is comedy central

Rate my posts please

your /pol/posts are incredibly obvious bait
which is kind of refreshing

Cragpost

The thirst quencher

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:38 am
by XSI
All of Europe's got problems
And the politicians aren't even trying to solve them

So business as usual

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:53 am
by Luke Cox
@Cosmic: My general take on it is that the UK is in a pretty bad spot right now, but they more than have the capacity to get out of it. This isn't some inescapable black hole, you can do it. All the UK has to do is tell is tell the EU to go fuck itself and focus on fixing its problems. Take the money from the EU membership fees and funnel that into the NHS, police, etc. Although the police issue appears to be as much policy as it is money. Blunting the tips of kitchen knives and confiscating potato peelers isn't going to solve knife crime.

The refugee crisis absolutely was started by Germany and Sweeden, but free movement complicates things a bit. I'm not sure if free movement applies for legal residents, but once they have citizenship it's basically open season. Ditch open movement, and let them deal with the mess they made. According to international law, most of these refugees should be in either Saudi Arabia or eastern Europe (first safe country and all)

I don't agree with a fair amount of Trump is doing, but the one area I've always supported him in is trade. Elect politicians who are willing to negotiate aggressively with the UK's interests at heart. Negotiate your own trade deals, and funnel the tariffs into the aforementioned social programs too. Outsourcing taxes is pretty fucking sweet. These people seem to think that a trade war is tantamount to an actual fucking war. If Trump goes without starting any new military conflicts for his first term, I will seriously consider voting for him in 2020 unless the DNC gets its shit together (voted 3rd party in 2016). A president not starting a war will be a first in my lifetime and jesus christ that sounds depressing now that I've typed it out.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:06 am
by ShadowDimentio
>DNC sorts its shit out

Unlikely given how their platform following Trump has been to double down on hysterically unpopular issues like open borders or gun control. They'll probably wind up crashing and burning, with a new party rising to take their place. Or in a perfect world, crashing and destroying the two party system and actually paving the way for a less shit system.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:26 am
by Luke Cox
We're seeing the old neoliberal establishment being swept out of the DNC. Ordinarily this would be a good thing, but instead we have more extreme elements are taking their places. They are completely unviable. No conservative, moderate, or even most liberals want to abolish borders and ICE, enact strict gun control, etc. I expect them to collapse within a single election cycle. It's anyone's game at that point, but what should happen is the DNC should escew identity politics completely and re-invemt itself as a working class unionist party. An American labor party basically.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:38 am
by DemonFiren
>american labour party
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:44 pm
by ShadowDimentio
DemonFiren wrote:>american labour party
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I was seriously considering calling out that the dems are on the verge of commie takeover but didn't and NOW LOOK WHERE WE ARE WEW LADS

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 4:00 pm
by DemonFiren
ShadowDimentio wrote:
DemonFiren wrote:>american labour party
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


I was seriously considering calling out that the dems are on the verge of commie takeover but didn't and NOW LOOK WHERE WE ARE WEW LADS


do you even know what communism is

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:50 pm
by Luke Cox
I'm not sure if I would call them communists, but more extreme elements are undeniably taking over the democratic party. The old neoliberal establishment is dying off, both figuratively and literally - they're old as shit. We had Cortez, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, people who have slammed Bernie Sanders for not being radical enough, win a house seat in New York. Young democrats are marching in the streets chanting "no Trump, no wall, no USA at all" and carrying signs calling for abolishing capitalism and the border. Of course, these are fringe elements that are hardly representative of the population as a whole. They are making progress in the party itself though, and they will inevitably end up tanking it.


I say "American labor party" because the democratic party re-inventing itself as a working class party focused on labor issues is the only way I can see them winning back all the voters that they've alienated.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:48 pm
by Super Aggro Crag
The democraps dont care about working class America hence why hillary's response to 40 year old out of work blue collar americans was "uhhhh just go to college and get an IT degree sweaty duh ;)"

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:05 pm
by Luke Cox
Trump's plans in that area were pretty questionable (coal is kill, and it fucking sucks anyway), but it was a plan. Hillary's attitude towards them ranged from apathy to condescension. You'll never guess which demographic cost her the election.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:21 pm
by Screemonster
Remember when hillary's campaign tried to counter "make america great again" with blue "america is already great" hats?

The former is a call to action, the latter... it isn't even disagreeing with the actions being proposed, it's in opposition to the idea that a problem exists. She might as well have sent her supporters out with "I'm alright jack" hats.

Guess which one struck a chord with people who'd been fucked by a recession with no sign of anything improving because nobody was willing to acknowledge there was even a problem? "Oh, but THE ECONOMY is improving!", "you're objectively wrong, look at these GDP figures" and so on, turns out nobody gives a fuck about the economy "recovering" if none of that recovery is being seen at the ground level

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:24 pm
by DemonFiren
I thought this was 2k18 /pol/, not 2k16 /pol/

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:27 pm
by Super Aggro Crag
Timezones, you sauerkraut saurian!

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:43 pm
by Malkevin
France had riots last night in Paris, media says it was football hooligans from France winning the world cup.

Videos show lots of darkies smashing and grabbing, just like all the other riots they have constantly. I wonder how the media connected this riot to the world cup hmmmm.

Also the headline was "Two dead in Paris football riot".
The two that died were a couple of separate incidents of a drunk killing himself in a stupid and hilarious way (one dived in a river and broke his neck, I forgot how the other darwined himself).

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 7:50 pm
by Super Aggro Crag
Yo dude your language is pretty racially charged

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:03 pm
by Grazyn
Screemonster wrote:Remember when hillary's campaign tried to counter "make america great again" with blue "america is already great" hats?

The former is a call to action, the latter... it isn't even disagreeing with the actions being proposed, it's in opposition to the idea that a problem exists. She might as well have sent her supporters out with "I'm alright jack" hats.

Guess which one struck a chord with people who'd been fucked by a recession with no sign of anything improving because nobody was willing to acknowledge there was even a problem? "Oh, but THE ECONOMY is improving!", "you're objectively wrong, look at these GDP figures" and so on, turns out nobody gives a fuck about the economy "recovering" if none of that recovery is being seen at the ground level

Remember when liberals used to say that America wasn't great?



All it took for them to change idea was a Republican saying the same thing.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:11 pm
by XSI
DemonFiren wrote:I thought this was 2k18 /pol/, not 2k16 /pol/


It's going to keep being relevant all the way to 2024 at this rate
The entire US democrat platform relies on "I hate Trump", which is not productive. It's just crying that they lost
They don't have a plan or a goal, so by all measure it's likely that they'll lose Trump's reelection and we'll see two terms of Trump

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:17 pm
by Luke Cox
The 2016 election is very much relevant in terms of how it broke the democratic party. My hope after the election was that the democratic voter base would lynch the party leadership, expel the extreme elements, and go back to being actual liberals. Oh how wrong I was...

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:29 pm
by IkeTG
the democratic party got pwned

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:37 pm
by DemonFiren
Luke Cox wrote:The 2016 election is very much relevant in terms of how it broke the democratic party. My hope after the election was that the democratic voter base would lynch the party leadership, expel the extreme elements, and go back to being actual liberals. Oh how wrong I was...

to be fair it also broke the republicans
and now their extreme elements are lynching the rest

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:54 pm
by ShadowDimentio
That's wrong though. Trump is pretty damn moderate and the war hawk neocon branch of the republican party has been on the downturn following the election that they lost.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:56 pm
by Anonmare
I think the 2016 elections highlight best the utter failure of a two party system and FPTP


I remember reading back in 2016 about a county in Wales where an MP got elected despite having only ~25% of the vote, by virtue of the fact that everyone else got even less. How an MP can claim to represent a county that barely a 1/4 of them voted for is beyond me

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:01 am
by ShadowDimentio
Two party systems and FPTP suck but there's no way to change them unless the system fails, which thankfully(?) the US is damn close to if/when the dem party implodes. We might actually be able to unfuck the system as more parties appear and fight over the space the dems left vacant.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 12:13 am
by XSI
The sad thing is that you'd have to rely on politicians to change the system
And if they've been elected, they tend to not want to change the system

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:12 am
by DemonFiren
ShadowDimentio wrote:That's wrong though. Trump is pretty damn moderate and the war hawk neocon branch of the republican party has been on the downturn following the election that they lost.

Image

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:34 am
by ShadowDimentio
XSI wrote:The sad thing is that you'd have to rely on politicians to change the system
And if they've been elected, they tend to not want to change the system


That's WHY the system would change. Every third party candidate that got in would want to change the system to another for the benefit of their party, and while the republicans would oppose it support for a change would come and they'd likely change their tunes.

Re: 2k18 /pol/

PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2018 1:34 am
by XSI
Say what you will, Trump is actually reasonably moderate on a whole lot of topics
Of course this is not the picture the media and his opponents want you to see, so those get nearly no attention and they focus on the bits where he is terrible. Or the ones they personally disagree with