2k18 /pol/

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:01 pm #449357

Source was ABC news, and it seems to be missing now that I went to check the article
No retraction or clarification either, just seems the detail is gone so perhaps it was not intentionally released or a mistake on their end that was caught in a few minutes

I maintain that this is not intended to cause harm however. This is a high-publicity thing designed to cause waves
Anyone actually wanting to cause harm would be able to do so much easier than with a bomb. Just a gun and a scope will get them there. Especially since they already seem to know where these people live
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:02 pm #449358

Your point being?
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:03 pm #449359

Point being there was never any danger of the 'bombs' causing harm because they're basically just shiny 'look a lot like a bomb' rather than actual explosive devices

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:29 pm #449363

Which is not what they're being treated as by police.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Thu Oct 25, 2018 11:35 pm #449365

Of course not. Because the police works on 'better safe than sorry' for their own staff. And they'd also want to check them for fingerprints, leftover dna(Hairs, etc), and so on. They're not just going to chuck them into the trash

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:29 am #449387

The return address said it was wasserman-Schultz
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ShadowDimentio » Fri Oct 26, 2018 1:47 am #449391

And the packages didn't have a post office cancellation stamp. If this isn't a hoax this would-be bomber has done a spectacularly pathetic job. Making a bomb is so easy dirt farmers in the middle of deserts can do it, but this idiot, with access to all the bomb-making materials and information the darkweb can provide, is mailing out inert dildos strapped to alarm clocks.

His incompetence is the only dangerous thing here, and anyone with two brain cells to rub together wouldn't try to run this as a BREAKING NEWS: DRUMPFH SUPPORTERS ARE ACTUALLY VIOLENT??? story after just a few weeks ago Trump and Mattis had actual ricin sent to them.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Takeguru » Fri Oct 26, 2018 6:36 am #449454

Funny how that works

Actual ricin gets sent, it drops off the radar within a few days

This bomb shit is gonna be trumped(haha geddit) up for a few weeks because it happened to the down and out party
Conveniently right before midterms
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Fri Oct 26, 2018 7:25 am #449464

You mean it happened to the party that is supported by the media
Because that's how they decide what stories to run. They don't want to hear about 'their side' doing bad shit and if they must publish anything related to it they'll keep it as small as possible or make excuses for it

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:30 am #449504

>oh, look, crime happens
>irrelevant, it happened to the side THE EVIL MEDIA is supporting anyway
>lmao it's probably a PR campaign
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Fri Oct 26, 2018 5:29 pm #449589

>Implying it's not bad that this happened
Just pointing out that the coverage is way overblown compared to the actual crime, and why that is

We know you're just trolling at this point, but I'll mention an update to go along with it
Specifically, they claim to have found the guy that did it

It's Florida Man. The greatest supervillain of the USA
And it's looking like a massive stereotype that can't possibly be taken seriously. But at least that would explain the comically bad bombs

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ComradeNecron » Fri Oct 26, 2018 9:30 pm #449654

XSI wrote:>Implying it's not bad that this happened
Just pointing out that the coverage is way overblown compared to the actual crime, and why that is

We know you're just trolling at this point, but I'll mention an update to go along with it
Specifically, they claim to have found the guy that did it

It's Florida Man. The greatest supervillain of the USA
And it's looking like a massive stereotype that can't possibly be taken seriously. But at least that would explain the comically bad bombs

I'm still waiting for the ultimate polish man vs florida man duel

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Fri Oct 26, 2018 10:06 pm #449659

Apparently unless one just got lost in the mail, there was a another 'package' mailed after the suspected was took into custody that could either disprove that it was them, or point to a accomplaice or copycat.


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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:15 am #449963

XSI wrote:We know you're just trolling at this point

jej
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Rustledjimm » Mon Oct 29, 2018 2:53 pm #450157

the world is going to shit

second referendum when
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ShadowDimentio » Mon Oct 29, 2018 3:22 pm #450161

On what
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Malkevin » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:07 pm #450173

Lol it's a remoaner
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Screemonster » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:39 pm #450178

Malkevin wrote:Lol it's a remoaner

or a scot

like one of the main no campaign arguments in the scottish indy ref was "if scotland leaves the UK they won't be grandfathered into the EU so if you want to stay in the EU then vote no to independence!"
and then they ended up not getting to stay in the EU anyway WHOOPS

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Oct 29, 2018 4:41 pm #450179

dammit where'd I put Spiegel magazine's latest Brexit caricature
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:07 pm #450196

Now they're saying Brexit is the option to a independent EU because they want to be grandfathered into it and get whatever the 3/4 of the UK was having on 'free trade'

The DUP and Scottish parliment really are a bunch of self serving tossers, not a peep out of Wales though.


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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Mon Oct 29, 2018 6:45 pm #450197

>nationalist complaining about self-interest
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:52 am #450326

Pretty much all nationalists shit on self-interest in politicians specifically because they put their self-interest above the people of the country

That's how globalism happens, the interests of themselves and their international donors above the interests of the people

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ShadowDimentio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:01 am #450327

The rattling for a second referendum on Brexit angers me. It's nothing more than a ploy by Remain to try and flip the result, which is unacceptable. You don't get to try and void the first vote because you don't like it, that's not how democracy works, fuck off.

I don't believe for a second the same crowd that refused to honor the first result would honor the second result if they lost again.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Takeguru » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:51 am #450335

It worked for catbeasts here, why not on the level of an entire country?
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Super Aggro Crag » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:53 am #450337

Why dont bongistanis just shoot the redcoats and declare independence

Dump all the tea into the Thames
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Rustledjimm » Tue Oct 30, 2018 3:50 am #450359

>lol no you can't change your mind

Those that defy a second referendum with that stupid argument are suggesting we should have one election ever and never change party afterwards.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:07 am #450366

That may be because the first vote on brexit has never been listened to and they've done their best to make a mess of things instead of just doing what was asked of them
It wouldn't be a problem if they competently handled brexit, but they are doing everything possible to make it into a disaster.

It's like a passive-agressive child going "No, I wanted mcdonalds!" when he got outvoted and people wanted to go to a pizza place. Then somehow this child is in control of where the group goes and he's just driving circles around the McDonalds while constantly asking if you'd like to change your mind and vote McDonalds instead.
Stop being a cunt about it and just go to the pizza place. Stop trying to change people's minds by being petty shits and just do the job

You can't vote on brexit again because nobody has even bothered trying to brexit. That's like having a vote on headmins and if the result wasn't what the old headmins wanted, lets just delay and get another vote. And then another. Until the vote says what the people in charge want it to say

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Grazyn » Tue Oct 30, 2018 6:40 am #450377

Brexit isn't something that can happen in a day, I hope people knew that unless it was another case of "I voted by I had absolutely no idea of what was going to happen"

European agencies that had their HQ in the UK had to be transferred to another EU country (e.g. the European Medicines Agency which was moved to the Netherlands), british laws concerning the EU had to be repealed or changed, funds related to the EU (e.g. student grants) had to be pulled or reassigned and so on. The UK and the EU have been working on that throughout the last 2 years.

So it doesn't really make sense to say "it's been 2 years and people can change their mind, let's revote", but it's also pretty dumb to say "it's been 2 years and I still see brown people in the streets, they're ignoring our vote! Why haven't we left yet?"

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby leibniz » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:35 am #450382

Rustledjimm wrote:>lol no you can't change your mind

Those that defy a second referendum with that stupid argument are suggesting we should have one election ever and never change party afterwards.


There is some truth to that, but repeating a single issue vote is like saying "we'll just keep doing this until you get it right", there was something similar going on with the Treaty of Lisbon I think.

Usually elections are held every 4 years, would it be bad to hold them every year to see if people changed their minds since the last one? No, but it would be expensive.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Malkevin » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:52 am #450402

ShadowDimentio wrote:The rattling for a second referendum on Brexit angers me. It's nothing more than a ploy by Remain to try and flip the result, which is unacceptable. You don't get to try and void the first vote because you don't like it, that's not how democracy works, fuck off.

Unless of course you are the EU, in which case you'll keep having referendums until you get the result you wanted: like with the Lisbon treaty.

Which of course was one of the reasons Leave left for.

Grazyn wrote:Brexit isn't something that can happen in a day, I hope people knew that unless it was another case of "I voted by I had absolutely no idea of what was going to happen"

No one expected Brexit to happen in a day, what was expected was that the government would actually have a plan for when it happened and wouldn't cowtow to the EU and wouldn't have the whole thing ran by the weakest PM in history who no one ever elected in the first place, who is considered to be so incompetent that her own party have no confidence in her and are trying to create deals behind her back.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:54 am #450403

XSI wrote:Pretty much all nationalists shit on self-interest in politicians specifically because they put their self-interest above the people of the country

That's how globalism happens, the interests of themselves and their international donors above the interests of the people

no, no, no
first, your definition of globalism as "bad" is a bit too narrow, it's just one approach to handing political problems in general: nationalism means "by ourselves" (and has the connotation of WE'RE THE GREATEST EVER WOO! because of ideologised, rather than political, nationalism), globalism means "together" (and has the connotation of sucking corporate cock because of corporate, rather than political, globalism)
second, the negative meaning of globalism is entrenched because the economy globalised first - it is results-driven and thus mostly free of ideological restraints: if we expand our business, we get more of what we want (historically money, these days data)
then individual nation-states had to ask themselves how to deal with this phenomenon, a question largely ignored in the neoliberal frenzy following the end of the Cold War, letting the multinationals entrench even deeper
one possible solution was to use already existing supranational political structures such as the EU - surely a market of 500 million consumers acting as one is more powerful than the sum of its parts, right? (right...in theory)

so when it comes to handling an already irreversibly globalised economy with the aid of political entities that are only now beginning to properly globalise politicians get four choices:
pretend to be nationalist but leech off international agencies, both government and corporate (cough, cough, Farage and consorts, cough)
pretend to be globalist but only so you can blame all your failures on those aforementioned supranational political entities while also still leeching (just about everyone right now, which is why even I don't like the EU in its current form: just enough power to be scapegoated and further erode the trust placed in it, not enough to actually solve problems)
actually be nationalist and try to reverse all globalism within your borders (then watch your economy fall apart and your diplomatic influence dwindle - or worse, end up dependent on a single foreign economic/diplomatic tie which has no reason not to ruthlessly exploit you)
actually be globalist and band together to tell giants like The Google to fuck off (and then get stabbed in the back by the first two categories unless your name is Vestager)

tl;dr: the problem is once again the rampant (and pragmatic) dishonesty of those who seek power at all costs and have no problem engaging in doublethink
sadly one cannot actually force them to stop riding the fence and either cut their ties and commit to nationalism, or reinforce them and commit to internationalism


come to think about it, my philosophical problem with nationalism is that the interests of the people of a specific country are just self-interest extended to an arbitrary group, no different from corporate leadership only acting in the interest of their shareholders
it's kind of nonsensical to hate big business as a nationalist, the largest of them have effectively transcended the idea of mutual benefit and become their own independent political entities that mostly don't give a fuck about foreigners
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Tue Oct 30, 2018 11:29 am #450408

In reality, things are more complex for every individual issue. But I am surprised by how much in that post made sense and how much of it fits in large lines
Notably, nationalists- Most of the ones I know, are in favour of balancing between the third and fourth thing you mentioned. Everyone takes their own nation and works together to tell the global entities to fuck off. Basically treaties on individual issues and at most a system like how the EU would be if it actually worked and had checks against corruption instead of being a tool for corporate lobbyists and extremist politicians to push their views on multiple countries at once.

The problem is that as you mentioned they get stabbed in the back for profit(Or a goal of some kind). As a chain is only as strong as the weakest link. Or they are left abandoned and isolated as they are the only ones that are willing to stand up to abuse(Which is being attempted against Britain)
And yet almost no global or multinational political entities have helped more than they've hurt, because these entities often lack anti-corruption measures(Hello EU) or are just tools for the bigger countries to more effectively control the smaller ones(Hello UN)
That is the main problem with it- Globalism is a bad word because it means "Fuck you, none of you matter. I'm moving everything to Vietnam to be worshiped as a rich god for giving them pennies!", and "You don't matter to us, you're just a silly peasant. Bow down to your rulers from across the sea". The only multinational entity that has helped more than it hurt, and not even by much, is NATO.

But that's because NATO is to defend against outside aggression and invasion, a thing that everyone can agree on.

There is nothing wrong with cooperation on a multinational scale. The problem is that people are working together to screw over the regular people and the regular people do not like it.
So they organize against this, and then..Suddenly they are far-right extremists for not wanting to lick and spit-shine the capitalists' shoes or giving away control of their entire society to people who do not care about them?
They're going to be pissed off. And they'll only get louder and more powerful as people try to ignore them as 'populists', or 'rural morons'
The people working together to screw over the regulars call themselves 'globalists'. So 'globalism' becomes a bad word in the eyes of the majority who does not want to be screwed

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Tue Oct 30, 2018 12:25 pm #450415

XSI wrote:I am surprised by how much in that post made sense

Sometimes it's actually possible not to shitpost in a politics thread.
XSI wrote:Everyone takes their own nation and works together to tell the global entities to fuck off. Basically treaties on individual issues and at most a system like how the EU would be if it actually worked and had checks against corruption instead of being a tool for corporate lobbyists and extremist politicians to push their views on multiple countries at once.

We're not too different, then. I don't believe in abolishing the idea of the nation-state, I just don't think it's a political panacea for today's - internationalised, globalised - problems.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ShadowDimentio » Tue Oct 30, 2018 2:19 pm #450429

Rustledjimm wrote:>lol no you can't change your mind

Those that defy a second referendum with that stupid argument are suggesting we should have one election ever and never change party afterwards.


And those that want a second referendum are suggesting it's okay to re-vote on issues as much as they want until the vote goes their way. It's no small coincidence that Remain are the only ones who want another vote, and that every single time their defense is "well what if the vote is different?"

Well, what if the vote ISN'T different? Are you going to accept the result THIS TIME?
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Screemonster » Tue Oct 30, 2018 4:50 pm #450451

ShadowDimentio wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:>lol no you can't change your mind

Those that defy a second referendum with that stupid argument are suggesting we should have one election ever and never change party afterwards.


And those that want a second referendum are suggesting it's okay to re-vote on issues as much as they want until the vote goes their way. It's no small coincidence that Remain are the only ones who want another vote, and that every single time their defense is "well what if the vote is different?"

Well, what if the vote ISN'T different? Are you going to accept the result THIS TIME?

to be fair when the polls were saying it was gonna go the other way farage was on record as saying a 48% vote to remain would be "far from a done deal" but as soon as it was equally marginal in the other direction suddenly NOPE IT'S CONCRETE AND SET IN STONE AND THE WILL OF (roughly half of) THE PEOPLE

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Incomptinence » Wed Oct 31, 2018 1:54 pm #450795

Ukip was a small party with the explicit purpose to try and leave so no shit they would try again probably at a much latter date using their finite political power.
Hell it went through and now it looks like ukip are still needed. Honestly I am glad Demonfiren is a dirty lizard so they have no teats for poms to latch onto.

Britain and her people would be a laughing stock if they didn't finish the Brexit now. A nation where not only the politicians but the voting public themselves renege on their commitments.

Remain is a stupid cause at this point try for rejoin at a latter date if you like the EU that much.

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Oct 31, 2018 2:11 pm #450797

Hold on.
The "voting public" was split pretty much 50-50 on this, so there is no commitment.
Even if there was, there's no reason to cling to a decision if the facts that decision was based on have changed - Brexit seems to be looking more and more foolish to more and more Brits.
As far as I'm concerned I'd count those as laughing stock who stubbornly refuse to re-examine the situation in spite of altered circumstances.

I mean, just so I'm not getting you wrong, did you seriously just accuse an entire nation's populace of taking a moment to contemplate whether the ship they're on might end up sinking after all?
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Rustledjimm » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:04 pm #450851

If an election was as shoddily run as the referendum was and had many election and funding laws broken it would've been redone.

The saddest thing is that by next month if voting demographics remained exactly the same as the time of the referendum (and if anything the demographics have moved in favour of remain already) the result would be an easy remain because enough old people have died in the past two years.

Fact is even if we do brexit now the majority of people who will be alive going onwards from this year will want to be in the EU. Brexit is one of the most retarded short-term politics mistakes ever made because it's guaranteed to be reversed in less than decade so we might as well stop it now.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Grazyn » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:10 pm #450855

Rustledjimm wrote:If an election was as shoddily run as the referendum was and had many election and funding laws broken it would've been redone.

The saddest thing is that by next month if voting demographics remained exactly the same as the time of the referendum (and if anything the demographics have moved in favour of remain already) the result would be an easy remain because enough old people have died in the past two years.

Fact is even if we do brexit now the majority of people who will be alive going onwards from this year will want to be in the EU. Brexit is one of the most retarded short-term politics mistakes ever made because it's guaranteed to be reversed in less than decade so we might as well stop it now.


I'm not sure if you're aware, but the next EU elections are next year and natpops are gonna win it in a landslide. The EU will be virtually unrecognizable in less than a decade, if it's even gonna survive that long

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Rustledjimm » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:21 pm #450864

Grazyn wrote:
Rustledjimm wrote:If an election was as shoddily run as the referendum was and had many election and funding laws broken it would've been redone.

The saddest thing is that by next month if voting demographics remained exactly the same as the time of the referendum (and if anything the demographics have moved in favour of remain already) the result would be an easy remain because enough old people have died in the past two years.

Fact is even if we do brexit now the majority of people who will be alive going onwards from this year will want to be in the EU. Brexit is one of the most retarded short-term politics mistakes ever made because it's guaranteed to be reversed in less than decade so we might as well stop it now.


I'm not sure if you're aware, but the next EU elections are next year and natpops are gonna win it in a landslide. The EU will be virtually unrecognizable in less than a decade, if it's even gonna survive that long



I honestly don't see the political willpower for it to fall apart. It will induce reforms which are sorely needed but it will survive imo.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby Grazyn » Wed Oct 31, 2018 6:35 pm #450875

If they go through with their reforms, it will survive in name only. Why would the UK want to rejoin at that point? Considering the UK already had most of the things nationalists want to (re)introduce for everyone, like border control, monetary sovereignty and so on

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:50 pm #450949

The EU needs to fall apart so we can replace it with something that actually works
Of course that's not likely to happen, but I'd like for the traitors who fucked europe to be punished as well

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:59 pm #450957

fix > remove
alas, nobody ever does that
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:02 pm #450959

If the foundations are broken, trying to build on them will only lead to a different ruin. Not to a functional construction

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:39 pm #450985

They ain't, though.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby IkeTG » Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:51 pm #450999

XSI wrote:If the foundations are broken, trying to build on them will only lead to a different ruin. Not to a functional construction

Since we're using strange analogies, if your house burned down and half your family died, I doubt any survivors would want to reframe the tragedy as an idealistic first step towards a reformed, more functional family life.

Trying to reform is usually going to be cheaper and less catastrophic than letting everything fall inwards just because it's 'easier' to build something from nothing.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby XSI » Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:39 pm #451033

And that is why I am in favour of disassembly and not demolition
Take that shit apart into components and from there you can salvage the good parts and cut out the bad
Then use the good parts for a new thing that does have a good foundation, and leave the bad to rot on the pages of history

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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby DemonFiren » Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:30 am #451052

So you're saying, keep it running.
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby ShadowDimentio » Thu Nov 01, 2018 4:01 am #451091

DemonFiren wrote:Hold on.
The "voting public" was split pretty much 50-50 on this, so there is no commitment.
Even if there was, there's no reason to cling to a decision if the facts that decision was based on have changed - Brexit seems to be looking more and more foolish to more and more Brits.
As far as I'm concerned I'd count those as laughing stock who stubbornly refuse to re-examine the situation in spite of altered circumstances.

I mean, just so I'm not getting you wrong, did you seriously just accuse an entire nation's populace of taking a moment to contemplate whether the ship they're on might end up sinking after all?


>Looks more and more foolish

Says the German who has everything to lose when the EU collapses

And what altered circumstances? The only thing that's happened so far is May doing a 180 out of nowhere and deliberately sabotaging the negotiations, so much so that UKIP is having to resurrect themselves so that there's the slightest chance she doesn't fuck things up further.
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-Remie Richards

"I just spent all fucking day playing fallen london and sunless sea and obsessing over how creepy the fucking dawn machine is and only just clocked now that your avatar is the fucking dawn machine. Nobody vote for this disgusting new sequence blasphemer he wants to kill the gods"
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Re: 2k18 /pol/

Postby FantasticFwoosh » Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:56 am #451156

UKIP is basically a protest & political pressure party, its aligned with the public's opinions on leaving the EU but really shouldn't be a representative for government.

I've said it once and i'll say it again, Liberal democrats should reform into a right wing party to properly represent a counterbalance to how soft Labour & Tories have become rather than rely on UKIP with no long term goals or feasable ability in government past a set point.


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