/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Ricotez wrote:What a lot of media conveniently left out are the images of protesters protecting businesses (you know, the job of the police, which they couldn't get to because they were too busy putting on more equipment than most soldiers have on them in warzones), and cleaning up the mess they created..

Which images?
You mean that video of the white women protecting the Papa Johns, she probably worked at, from two black savages?

Spacezenegger wrote:

nsos wrote:

paprika wrote:

Ricotez wrote:The goal of these riots is not to loot business, or to cause violence. The goal of these riots is to create change, to let the world know that these people are completely sick of the way the entire judicial system is biased against them. I'm sorry if they inconvenience you, maybe you'll finally pay some attention to these people's issues now.

im too much of a child to have a remotely serious discussion

i understand you have a reputation as le epik coder trole xD to uphold though

How do you even respond to such liberal ignorance? If I were to say the opposite of what Ricotez said was true I'd be labeled as a racist and ignored.

i dont think anyone here would label you a racist for having a differing opinions; this isn't actually tumblr and we can discuss differing viewpoints without being retarded.

i don't fuck with modern liberals as they're part of the inherently flawed "us vs them" two-party system that has done a great job in fucking over a great deal of modern government, so there's that then.

but anyway, i'll try to humor the response, because it would be silly for me to say what i've said and then not actually add to the conversation.

suppose we go back to ricotez's post for example: it would be absolutely short sighted/blind for me or anyone else here to suggest that there weren't obviously a bunch of chucklefucks from both within the ferguson community and from the st louis area that were looting. we can obviously even go so far as to suggest that regardless of the indictment decision there were going to be people who were going to break shit and loot/riot anyway. i will never justify the theft from your own community in the guise of "well now you're listening lmao".

moving on, though: it's certainly not surprising these riots were happening, as i've already stated in a previous post that, for how long it was building up, it was absolutely going to happen: you had a whole black population in ferguson in close proximity and up close and personal with real live representation from the same police department they've been up in arms about even way before the Michael Brown incident. the NG blew it for not getting in there immediately from the start, and thinking that the ferguson PD was remotely equipped to deal with the situation that they were inevitably going to cause.

does it justify looting? fuck no, and again, i've not seen anyone actually suggest that the looting itself, the action of it, was justified, outside of reactionaries on tumblr and the high school aged internet anarchists who are all like "YEAH FUCK PRIVATE PROPERTY I'M VICARIOUSLY USING THIS AS A WAY TO STICK IT TO MY BOSS BECAUSE I WORKED OVERTIME AND HE DIDN'T TELL ME GOOD JOB".

does it justify rioting? idunno. most certainly, there’s people running on instinct (or past experience) and making assumptions who are ust going to take it at face value 'white person killed one of my boys and now i gotta get mad about it' type deal because that's the type of person that the mainstream media and al sharpton's ilk prey on. But just as definitely there’s people who have followed the case closely and believe the verdict is wrong, and they feel like their nonviolent methods or going through the "official" channels have been ignored. they're pissed, it's a pressure cooker, people were going to lash out. it's up to the outside viewer to make their own conclusion if that's okay or not. and most of the responses here have been "it's not, but i understand why."

but i can't say that the same organization tasked with protecting, serving and upholding the peace didn't actually exacerbate the situation. i ca't say that the media both within and outside ferguson didn't stoke the flames up to this moment.

The end of story is that: Wilson walked because, in the minds of the jurors, his behavior didn’t fall outside protocol. We can argue for not on whether or not the jurors were right, or was Wilson justified in refusing to actually detail what happened in the incident report back in august, or is Darren Wilson a good cop (we've already seen multiple news reprots of evens prior to the Michael Brown event that suggest that he had some issues) or whether this may have been avoided altogether (probably, either by Michael Brown not trying to steal shit in the first place or Darren Wilson actually carrying a taser). But the decision is the decision.

Regardless of the decision it would be a good idea for police departments to realize that maybe repeated events like this shows that protocol needs to be examined. That's my stance on the actual incident. That's my "politically correct" stance on the incident anyway, I could write a whole page worth of arguments about why I personally don't buy Darren Wilson's testimony and my opinions on the public's reaction to the decision. I certainly have a lot more to say about how it was handled by the media and the public outside of the situation, and the aftermath, but this post is getting longwinded as it is.

paprika wrote:

nsos wrote:

paprika wrote:

Ricotez wrote:The goal of these riots is not to loot business, or to cause violence. The goal of these riots is to create change, to let the world know that these people are completely sick of the way the entire judicial system is biased against them. I'm sorry if they inconvenience you, maybe you'll finally pay some attention to these people's issues now.

im too much of a child to have a remotely serious discussion

i understand you have a reputation as le epik coder trole xD to uphold though

i understand you have a reputation as a stick up ass retard who gets off discussing things that will never affect him in his retarded suburban home on the forum for a 2d spaceman game you actual retard

and i'm the child?

get slaughtered you armchair politician piece of garbage :^)

yeah bruh you sure did show me with your hot projections

nothing you've posted to me or in this thread in general has changed my opinion that you're a fucking moron more concerned with being an epik memer that puts on his "i'm too cool and contrarian to be bothered with not being a shitposting retard" when other people get tired of his shtick regardless of it being a discussion about RL issues or your changes to a 2d spacemen game

and you must understand how much of an actual moron you just be to be called a shitposting retard by me

I don't even need to look at a thread on here to know whats going to be said anymore

get out while you still can

You know if law and order is so great, maybe police should be subject to it also.

Has Kot showed up yet to try to say Anarchism is better

no sense of self?

more like all sense of gay

Incomptinence wrote:You know if law and order is so great, maybe police should be subject to it also.

If only a grand jury of the officer's peers would come together, hear all the evidence from both sides, and determine if a case should be pursued against the officer.

If we can't talk about this without being assholes or throwing ad hominem attacks every other post we won't talk about it at all.

was one of those posts mine i forget

E: No. - V

praise police
police are the alpha and the omega god bless

Quoting a blog from a 14 year old girl(Who has since then been doxxed and is receiving death threats and lots of harassing phone calls from SJWs)

There once was a thug named Brown
Who bum-rushed a cop with a frown
Six bullets later
He met his creator
Then his homies burnt down the town

lel

Funny how getting death threats online is so mundane now.

i remember being surprised the first time i got one on another website and wondering why it took so long

That's actually a pretty clever limerick for a 14 year old.

Any demonstration that devolves into violence only makes everyone look stupid.

I believe the message in the hearts of the demonstrators could've been affected through a cultural movement. The creation of art objects, music, film. Peaceful demonstrations like sit-ins, vigils, etc. Driving home the point of our shared history and condition. That no matter what color we are we're all still the same human animal, with the same wants and fears.

But the hate was too immediate, too much anger. That's why we all watched a city tear itself apart and only reinforce the idea that you don't want these people as your neighbors. They only accomplished the exact opposite of what they set out to do. The message America got was "If you don't give us what we want we will tear shit apart."

And that's a fucking gigantic injustice and a shame because it's a picture only the worst in both groups want. There are racist blacks who want whites to be afraid of them. There are racist whites who want others to be scared of blacks just the same. Fear is the ultimate power. Both sides are hoping this fear will spur more people into joining them, thinking like they do. And those guys are the only guys who won.

Both sides of the worst argument in the history of humankind won Ferguson.

Unless I'm wrong? Did anyone see all this unfold and think, "Finally we'll never see a young black american get gunned down again"? Did anyone think "Finally we'll never rush to racism as the first reason for a cop to act in a situation like this"? I sure as shit didn't see any positive outcome of this whole fiasco, and I would say that I was only counting the days until it happened again...

...but we already have moved on to the case of Tamir Rice being shot for your choice of:

A) Being black in America
B) Reaching for a weapon

An0n3 wrote:Any demonstration that devolves into violence only makes everyone look stupid.

I believe the message in the hearts of the demonstrators could've been affected through a cultural movement. The creation of art objects, music, film. Peaceful demonstrations like sit-ins, vigils, etc. Driving home the point of our shared history and condition. That no matter what color we are we're all still the same human animal, with the same wants and fears.

But the hate was too immediate, too much anger. That's why we all watched a city tear itself apart and only reinforce the idea that you don't want these people as your neighbors. They only accomplished the exact opposite of what they set out to do. The message America got was "If you don't give us what we want we will tear shit apart."

And that's a fucking gigantic injustice and a shame because it's a picture only the worst in both groups want. There are racist blacks who want whites to be afraid of them. There are racist whites who want others to be scared of blacks just the same. Fear is the ultimate power. Both sides are hoping this fear will spur more people into joining them, thinking like they do. And those guys are the only guys who won.

Both sides of the worst argument in the history of humankind won Ferguson.

Unless I'm wrong? Did anyone see all this unfold and think, "Finally we'll never see a young black american get gunned down again"? Did anyone think "Finally we'll never rush to racism as the first reason for a cop to act in a situation like this"? I sure as shit didn't see any positive outcome of this whole fiasco, and I would say that I was only counting the days until it happened again...

...but we already have moved on to the case of Tamir Rice being shot for your choice of:

A) Being black in America
B) Reaching for a weapon

Race Card in this day and age is a powerful card to play, you can stir anything with the shout of "RACIST!". It drives away the facts and truths, devolving testimonies and evidence into opinions and arguments about if someone is racist or not.

If they really wanted to riot, they should be burning relevant government buildings, not shops and random cars.

FredNodoor wrote: Race Card in this day and age is a powerful card to play, you can stir anything with the shout of "RACIST!". It drives away the facts and truths, devolving testimonies and evidence into opinions and arguments about if someone is racist or not.

I think it's losing its potency. It's becoming harder and harder for the average person to believe a "good person" could be racist. It's easy to forget interracial marriage was illegal in the South only 47 years ago. That this shit was a tangible physical thing you could reach out and touch. You could read the law and see it right there, racism incarnate. The proof, the line that someone steps over and becomes racist, is all fucked up and loopy.

We're living now in an era with very little if any systemic racism and primarily social racism. And you can't fucking march against that. You need to get into individual's hearts and minds to fight that. There's no rule in the police handbook or our law that says to treat suspects differently based on the color of their skin. That's something that's in the individual officer's minds. Marching against the police office isn't going to accomplish anything. Marching on the government buildings isn't going to accomplish anything. They're not the ones responsible for it.

It's muddier now. It's very difficult if not impossible to prove. Calling someone racist has less of a punch at the same time that I think racism is on the rise again. Our ability to cloister ourselves up with only people who think like we do, and for others like us to find us is better than ever. In the 80's and 90's someone who thought one way but had nobody around to agree with might begin to think they're wrong or all alone and stop thinking or acting out that way.

But not now. Now even if nobody around you supports you you can go online and get support and reinforcement from people who think exactly like you do from the four corners of the earth. And then the two of you meet a third person who was on the fence about something, and you can convince them. You have group you can welcome them into now. Pretty soon you can be part of a network of people who think and act just like you do, even though you're the only one like that for hundreds of miles.

That can be used for good and bad but I think it's far more commonly used to reinforce terrible negative attitudes than good ones. From the KKK to LE digg ARMIE.

Humans suck.

ThanatosRa wrote:Humans suck.

This, though.

An0n3 wrote:

Spoiler:

FredNodoor wrote: Race Card in this day and age is a powerful card to play, you can stir anything with the shout of "RACIST!". It drives away the facts and truths, devolving testimonies and evidence into opinions and arguments about if someone is racist or not.

I think it's losing its potency. It's becoming harder and harder for the average person to believe a "good person" could be racist. It's easy to forget interracial marriage was illegal in the South only 47 years ago. That this shit was a tangible physical thing you could reach out and touch. You could read the law and see it right there, racism incarnate. The proof, the line that someone steps over and becomes racist, is all fucked up and loopy.

We're living now in an era with very little if any systemic racism and primarily social racism. And you can't fucking march against that. You need to get into individual's hearts and minds to fight that. There's no rule in the police handbook or our law that says to treat suspects differently based on the color of their skin. That's something that's in the individual officer's minds. Marching against the police office isn't going to accomplish anything. Marching on the government buildings isn't going to accomplish anything. They're not the ones responsible for it.

It's muddier now. It's very difficult if not impossible to prove. Calling someone racist has less of a punch at the same time that I think racism is on the rise again. Our ability to cloister ourselves up with only people who think like we do, and for others like us to find us is better than ever. In the 80's and 90's someone who thought one way but had nobody around to agree with might begin to think they're wrong or all alone and stop thinking or acting out that way.

But not now. Now even if nobody around you supports you you can go online and get support and reinforcement from people who think exactly like you do from the four corners of the earth. And then the two of you meet a third person who was on the fence about something, and you can convince them. You have group you can welcome them into now. Pretty soon you can be part of a network of people who think and act just like you do, even though you're the only one like that for hundreds of miles.

That can be used for good and bad but I think it's far more commonly used to reinforce terrible negative attitudes than good ones. From the KKK to LE digg ARMIE.

Yep... and acting like a stereotype is really not the way to win those hearts and minds


And to be honest I've never found the internet to be a great place to find people with racist views, most of the people I've met online are generally heavily liberal.
Unless of course by racist you mean someone that wears denim overalls, and lives in a trailer with a rusted out husk of what used to be a 1950s Ford Pickup, and blame the jews for everything. Then theres Stormfront.

ITT

Photoshopped. Also I'm obligated to note that the store robbery was unrelated.

Cipher3 wrote:Photoshopped. Also I'm obligated to note that the store robbery was unrelated.

Is there an original somewhere I can compare this to?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

no but really, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6wXkI4t7nuc

Ferguson does not represent an advancement for black people, it is an embarrassment, and anyone who thinks hash tag hands up don't shoot is even warranted is the worst kind of person. the kid was a bully, plain and simple, and believe what you want from movies and literature, police are actually trained to go for the center mass and not a tiny target like a leg or an arm. This isn't even arguable since none of us can really know what the cop was going through. how cool do you think you would be if your life was directly threatened?

fuck whitey, evidence is falsified

Also shooting someone in the leg is arguable more likely to be fatal than shooting someone in centre mass.

Your leg is just a long bone, muscle and the femoral artery. If a bullet goes through that large artery your going to very quickly bleed out. (The femoral artery connects directly to the aorta, so your heart is just pumping high levels of blood out of your body).

Meanwhile your chest/stomach is much larger and has more mass. Meaning if you do get shot in your centre mass your less likely to have a vital organ/artery/vein be struck.

That's another reason why people are trained to hit centre mass, its easier but less likely to be fatal.

Shoot someone in the hip to cripple them for life! The more you know!

just tactically suck their dick to disarm the situation ejsus christ rookies.

who is fergus?

Father of the Nord that founded Ferguson, who named it after himself.

Now this is shitposting

now this is podposting.

So what do you guys think about Eric Garner's death ruling?

"Winning hearts and minds" isn't Ferguson majority black so they pretty much have won the hearts and minds by default?

Really political means would work fine for these people if it wasn't for typical American gerrymandering.

fleure wrote:So what do you guys think about Eric Garner's death ruling?

surprised but not

like a lot of blame is being thrown at the dead guy for resisting arrest even though there's 0 instance of during the video where they actually inform this dude he's under arrest for selling loose cigarettes that weren't actually found on his body.

the chokehold/takedown/whatever was improperly applied to begin with and resulted in 0 injuries to the throat/neck in the autopsy. people are putting a good amount of fracas on the initial choke when what is more concerning: when 5 cops combined can't put together the brain synapse to think that putting 4 people on a 400 lb man's back and chest and compressing/asphyxiating him just might to be a terrible idea if you're trying to apprehend a person, even before the guy starts mentioning he can't breathe.


oh well nyc's awful not much about my opinion changed before or after this even happened.

there has been a complete reversal. news media no longer uses blacks as scapegoats. police brutality is reported in such a way that the cop is treated as the criminal. increased police power is indicative of a larger problem, but little white yuppies and social justice warriors can't get over it as a racial thing. nevermind more whites are arrested on average than blacks. maybe you hear less about whites being needlessly brutalized because blacks are statistically more likely to resist arrest, or maybe because American mainstream culture is developing such an anti-white attitude to the point individual whites are meant to feel guilt for the collective actions of their race.

you people really shouldn't worry about more than shitcurity anyway

vonharden wrote: nevermind more whites are arrested on average than blacks.

when you adjust it for the population it's 2,9% of the white population and 6,7% of the black population. and these statistics include hispanics in whites.

I used data incorrectly. The point is, at least I am trying to find underlying issues instead of being drawn in by racist sensationalism.

People leap to causality just based on stats.

A disproportionate number of blacks getting arrested getting arrested than whites?
Holy shit, must be racist cops.

A disproportionate number of whites being murdered by blacks?
Holy shit must be racist criminals.

Compare the number of blacks killed by whites. There are roughly six times as many whites in the country yet they're responsible for less than half as many murders of blacks as blacks are of whites.
If you want to be the kind of asshole who just makes judgements based on numbers you could pull some shit out of your ass and say if the roles were reversed white people would be extinct.

But that's fucking ridiculous. You can't say that because these are just numbers. They don't tell the story of the situation. Each digit is a whole set of circumstances and people that you don't know jack shit about.
Just because shit happens and you can count it and make comparisons between the frequency of things occurring doesn't mean you know how or why they happen.

Every day of my life I've been alive. If I'm operating under this kind of logic than I have every reason to believe I'm fucking immortal.

An0n3 wrote:People leap to causality just based on stats.

A disproportionate number of blacks getting arrested getting arrested than whites?
Holy shit, must be racist cops.

A disproportionate number of whites being murdered by blacks?
Holy shit must be racist criminals.

Compare the number of blacks killed by whites. There are roughly six times as many whites in the country yet they're responsible for less than half as many murders of blacks as blacks are of whites.
If you want to be the kind of asshole who just makes judgements based on numbers you could pull some shit out of your ass and say if the roles were reversed white people would be extinct.

But that's fucking ridiculous. You can't say that because these are just numbers. They don't tell the story of the situation. Each digit is a whole set of circumstances and people that you don't know jack shit about.
Just because shit happens and you can count it and make comparisons between the frequency of things occurring doesn't mean you know how or why they happen.

Every day of my life I've been alive. If I'm operating under this kind of logic than I have every reason to believe I'm fucking immortal.

Unfortunately this idealistic view doesn't work on a community of millions of people.
Believe it or not, to the government, to the majority, to the system, you, me and everyone else here is a number. Our stories don't matter, laws are set in stone, you pass the line you get arrested. You become a statistic, and since the laws are clear, your story is no longer relevant. Further this by the fact the police get paid according to their statistics and you can see that you as a number don't really matter that much either.
Unfortunately for you Americans, your prisoners are a commodity nowadays. Thank you reaganomics.

1) If you're going to come to me and tell me how awful of an idea this thread is, don't turn around and shit it up.

2) Ferguson is a race issue because it's a situation where an unarmed black man was killed by an armed white police officer. Mind you, this happens ALL THE TIME and is more often than not discovered to be due to race. It was arguable as whether or not it was actually racially driven for a while, but the way that the Ferguson PD has been handling the matter hasn't helped things. You have to wonder why a grand jury made up of predominately whites (in fact, just enough to get voting majority!) chose not to indict Darrel Wilson DESPITE THE FACT that out of 16,000+ cases last year, only 11 failed to pass the grand jury phase. You're telling me that despite the multitude of conflicting testimonies, they'd still choose to not take him to trial? THEN Wilson just out of the blue resigns? That doesn't sound fishy to you?

E: Should we make this a catch-all for the other police killings/protests going on right now, ie: Eric Garner?

he was going to resign regardless of the decision; his name was anathema in the community. plus he got about 400k in donations from people.

anyway the eric garner situation is particularly- people do themselves a disservice by dismissing it as a race issue. there's a significant issue, particularly in large metropolitan areas, the blue wall of silence is still a thing. darren wilson had plenty of problems aired to his superiors prior to the michael brown shooting. the dude who shot tamir rice was basically called unfit to be a cop by a previous instructor. the handcuffed guy in the backseat of a cop cruiser who managed to 'shoot himself' with his hands cuffed behind his back with a magically procured gun. the name of the 7 year old child that got her face burned in half by getting hit by a flashbang grenade in a no-knock raid (this is a separate incident by the baby in georgia that got hit by a flashbang in its crib a few months ago) evades me but it's also shocking to me that none of the LEOs affiliated or remotely related to this case, the departments in general, ever really came out to say, not even a "hey maybe things in our protocol need to be looked over, if only a little bit."

the NYPD holding a press conference to talk about how betrayed and thrown under the bus they were after the NYC Mayor mentioned some vapid hashtag solidarity with protesters he's going to probably throw in jail later, to me, is just another example of this:


when are police officers in this country going to hold itself to a microcosm of accountability?

it's seriously impressive to me how not a single one of these departments have even been able to say, "hey, maybe we fucked up a little bit, maybe we should look deeper into things like this so it doesn't happen in the future?"

That would require them to admit that they're wrong, and that would "indicate weakness". Plus there's the whole racism thing.

I ground my teeth walking past a news stand yesterday with a newspaper headline "WHITE SC COP SHOOTS BLACK MAN" Of course, because I'm a privileged, unemployed, savings dwindling white man, I wasn't pissed off that another white pig dared to mar the skin of a probably innocent African American, but rather that the newspaper was so blatantly trying to stir up more race-baited unrest and bullshit over something that would bat zero eyes if writen backwards and should really not be raising special attention as its written already.

As always, the print and news media are faggots and make things worse for everyone.

racially charged violence is how a lot of people make their money