AI Stupid Prizes Peanut

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:18 am #595800

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=28797

AI refuses law 2 orders
Clown repeatedly tells the AI to state its laws to make sure it isn't malf
AI is obtuse and refuses to state its laws over the common radio when explicitly asked
Clown kills the AI
Clown gets beaned

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:51 am #595806

JusticeGoat's response is retarded. YOU KILLED HIM FOR BEING NEW!!!!
How is the Clown supposed to know the AI only has 4 hours and is talking in his chamber? All he can do is use the little information he has and act on it (the entire point of the game.)

Not-Dorsidarf · Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:58 am

This is a pretty bad looking call, AI should have eaten a ban for openly admitting to repeatedly refusing to follow its laws then ahelping when it gets killed for it. That's both rulebreaking AND banbaiting.

Also it's quite silly to demand that the clown / cyborg, neither of which has any ability whatsoever to repair or lawcheck the pretending-to-be-rogue AI, do so.

Tlaltecuhtli · Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:29 am

ai is an important role as much as heads, if you cant even speak in common you shouldnt play it, and with 0 knowledge of silicon policy i dont see why he shouldnt be the one banned instead of the clown which under suspicion of ai having a law to not state theirs has killed it while ai doing 0 effort to prove him otherwise

BONERMASTER · Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:12 am

terranut once again popping off in the appeal. What happened to you man? You used to be all hearts and smiles, but now you're all rage and hate. It's fucked up man, smh....

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:58 am #595819

I might be missing something here, but isn't the clown's job to honk around, be silly and annoy people?

Why the hell as a non-antag clown do you embark on a quest to, under your assumptions, deal with a malf AI. And especially after being told by a head that they're not (??)

It's not the place of the clown to do any of that. If you pick the clown do clown stuff. If you find yourself often having hunches or caring for the AI play RD, Captain, or be an AI yourself!

AI player is indeed a dick for ignoring the clown by own choice, and should have been ahelped to be told to stop. But the clown looked at the list of things to do and picked one of worst and stupidest one by own choice too. Not to mention he didn't check to confirm his assumptions later on.

This is a game of incomplete information and you can to certain extent act on hunches. But round removing for an assumption when it's not even anywhere near what you should be doing? Yeah

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:00 am #595821

reminder to use Who to try to find out who's playing the AI, look up how many hours they've played, dive into logs to see how they've played in other rounds, and THEN you can make a call about whether the extremely suspicious AI is in fact malf or just retarded
>woman avatar
>shit ban
every time

Rohen_Tahir · Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:20 am

Malkraz wrote:reminder to use Who to try to find out who's playing the AI, look up how many hours they've played, dive into logs to see how they've played in other rounds, and THEN you can make a call about whether the extremely suspicious AI is in fact malf or just retarded
>woman avatar
>shit ban
every time

also

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:21 am #595825

classic

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:13 pm #595828

damn can we get a 5th admin butting in on this dumb shit

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:26 pm #595831

BONERMASTER wrote:You used to be all hearts and smiles

Lay off the paint thinner, I've had a short fuse my entire life

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:28 pm #595832

Also this particular instance touches directly on me as an AI main especially because ~90% of admins are especially retarded dumbfucks in all matters silicon (not that players are better mind you)

IkeTG · Post by **IkeTG** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:38 pm #595834

AI player should have been banned for being an AI player

Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:41 pm

I had this AI as a master ai the previous round when I was a roundstart borg.
They're unironically a shitter. It doesn't surprise me at all that they decide to be mr funny guy and ignore the clear and obvious intent of getting laws stated over comms, and then they bitch so much when they get killed that they unironically get fucking repaired by centcom.

Very biased, but clown did absolutely nothing wrong in this instance.

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:45 pm #595836

ALWAYS Adminwho before joining the round

Eskjjlj · Post by **Eskjjlj** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 2:53 pm #595837

Just ahelp this kind of thing, if they're breaking their laws they get yelled at, if they're not breaking their laws, then there's no problem.

Manuelmin saying we must ask the admins to solve ic conflict

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:05 pm #595838

Using IC information is for fucking pussies
Just ahelp it, if the admin says they're resolving it, the AI isn't malf. If they say "IC issue", go kill the AI.

Post by **Misdoubtful** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:15 pm #595841

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:This is a pretty bad looking call, AI should have eaten a ban for openly admitting to repeatedly refusing to follow its laws then ahelping when it gets killed for it. That's both rulebreaking AND banbaiting.

Also it's quite silly to demand that the clown / cyborg, neither of which has any ability whatsoever to repair or lawcheck the pretending-to-be-rogue AI, do so.

This. Imperfect knowledge and not having all the information/tools is part of the game. Using poor information to play poorly is another story.

Malkraz wrote:Using IC information is for fucking pussies
Just ahelp it, if the admin says they're resolving it, the AI isn't malf. If they say "IC issue", go kill the AI.

Using OOC IC, always feels kinda gross. Something about acting in good faith to what's happening, with the information you have, and escalating accordingly.

If someone is acting poorly or like an antag, what do they do, ignore it? (Not saying things didn't go too far or did go too far)

Also silicon standards and rules hmm.

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:30 pm #595844

You guys don't need to take sides. Why is it always about taking sides?

Both players did shitty stuff, both were in the wrong. The note for the clown is justified. There should have been a bwoink to the AI and a note in case they didnt stop being a dick. Can we agree?

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:45 pm #595847

No he acted like an antag and got treated like one
Being new isn't a get out of jail free card for people dabbing on you when you act suspicious. This isn't fucking manuel BUHBUH HESS DA CLOYWN
Also holy shit why is every mrp tardmin jumping in to peanut post in this dude's appeal

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:51 pm #595848

Malkraz wrote:No he acted like an antag and got treated like one
Being new isn't a get out of jail free card for people dabbing on you when you act suspicious. This isn't fucking manuel BUHBUH HESS DA CLOYWN
Also holy shit why is every mrp tardmin jumping in to peanut post in this dude's appeal

Ah a Bagil elitist. Go figure.

Also I never mentioned anything about the AI being new or not. This shouldn't factor at all in this case.

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:53 pm #595850

Guy was playing on lrp bye bye mandweller your retarded ruleset won't be missed

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:18 pm #595851

Vekter wrote:Worth noting that admins are not required to explain their reasoning behind a specific ruling, nor are they required to sit there for hours debating it with you.

yes vekter we know you're a powertripping cocksucker who thinks himself above the players

CoffeeDragon16 · Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:29 pm

was playing that round the clownborg lied a lot about it, i didn't believe them and unfortunately i got a poor innocent borg killed because of it

Super Aggro Crag · Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:12 pm

Silicons...what a concept

Farquaar · Post by **Farquaar** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:55 pm #595866

Agux909 wrote:I might be missing something here, but isn't the clown's job to honk around, be silly and annoy people?

Why the hell as a non-antag clown do you embark on a quest to, under your assumptions, deal with a malf AI. And especially after being told by a head that they're not (??)

It's not the place of the clown to do any of that. If you pick the clown do clown stuff. If you find yourself often having hunches or caring for the AI play RD, Captain, or be an AI yourself!

One of the reasons I personally love playing clown is the incredible freedom the role allows. Humour is subjective, but for me, some of the funniest features of SS13 is seeing the clown “do sometbing that he shouldn’t”.

Seriously, what’s more funny than a literal floppy-shoed red-nosed honky-tonky CLOWN hunting a rogue artificial intelligence? I’ve seen professor clowns hijack chemistry, vigilante clowns command security, and even military clowns impersonate the captain and give orders. And every second of it was funny, because it’s all a reminder that you’re not supposed to take this game too seriously.

This is how it’s been since I started playing back in 2018, well before LRP servers were officially a thing. God bless the clown.

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 7:56 pm #595867

Farquaar wrote:
Agux909 wrote:I might be missing something here, but isn't the clown's job to honk around, be silly and annoy people?

Why the hell as a non-antag clown do you embark on a quest to, under your assumptions, deal with a malf AI. And especially after being told by a head that they're not (??)

It's not the place of the clown to do any of that. If you pick the clown do clown stuff. If you find yourself often having hunches or caring for the AI play RD, Captain, or be an AI yourself!
One of the reasons I personally love playing clown is the incredible freedom the role allows. Humour is subjective, but for me, some of the funniest features of SS13 is seeing the clown “do sometbing that he shouldn’t”.

Seriously, what’s more funny than a literal floppy-shoed red-nosed honky-tonky CLOWN hunting a rogue artificial intelligence? I’ve seen professor clowns hijack chemistry, vigilante clowns command security, and even military clowns impersonate the captain and give orders. And every second of it was funny, because it’s all a reminder that you’re not supposed to take this game too seriously.

This is how it’s been since I started playing back in 2018, well before LRP servers were officially a thing. God bless the clown.

i dont like that sounds like fail RP enjoy your ban sir

saprasam · Post by **saprasam** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:32 pm #595871

>ai actively ignores law states
>has little hours in the game
>players are saying the ai is a shitter
>ai bitches and moans about being killed for acting sus as fuck
>admins expects the clown to have an intellicard on him to see if the ai is suspicious
this is fucking stupid bro if this dont get overturned

Post by **NoxVS** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:33 pm #595872

what's really fucking lame is how he had himself borged and then broke his laws to be made back into a human

hypocrite kills an AI for breaking asimov, and then goes and breaks asimov immediately after

wesoda25 · Post by **wesoda25** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 8:52 pm #595873

Farquaar wrote:
Agux909 wrote:I might be missing something here, but isn't the clown's job to honk around, be silly and annoy people?

Why the hell as a non-antag clown do you embark on a quest to, under your assumptions, deal with a malf AI. And especially after being told by a head that they're not (??)

It's not the place of the clown to do any of that. If you pick the clown do clown stuff. If you find yourself often having hunches or caring for the AI play RD, Captain, or be an AI yourself!
One of the reasons I personally love playing clown is the incredible freedom the role allows. Humour is subjective, but for me, some of the funniest features of SS13 is seeing the clown “do sometbing that he shouldn’t”.

Seriously, what’s more funny than a literal floppy-shoed red-nosed honky-tonky CLOWN hunting a rogue artificial intelligence? I’ve seen professor clowns hijack chemistry, vigilante clowns command security, and even military clowns impersonate the captain and give orders. And every second of it was funny, because it’s all a reminder that you’re not supposed to take this game too seriously.

This is how it’s been since I started playing back in 2018, well before LRP servers were officially a thing. God bless the clown.

lol

mind you I agree with what you're saying, I just don't think it applies very well to this situation. My number one metric for a good clown is whether they're playing in good or bad faith - clown's that drop any pretense of silliness and leap wholeheartedly into validhunting are the scum of the fucking earth

Eskjjlj · Post by **Eskjjlj** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:27 pm #595875

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:arr me armhulen me censor adminbus leaks arghghh plug the holes

It's only Manuelmins defending this ban. Did they forget Sybil was LRP or is this an intentional invasion?

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:31 pm #595876

NoxVS wrote:what's really fucking lame is how he had himself borged and then broke his laws to be made back into a human

hypocrite kills an AI for breaking asimov, and then goes and breaks asimov immediately after

Asimov says you need to protect your own existence. It doesn't define whether that means your physical shell or your consciousness, with the latter obviously being preserved if you get put back into a body. Or anything, really.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote:I'm really honestly surprised

I'm not, this is an ongoing trend.

BONERMASTER · Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:17 pm

One is looking to banbait you, the other is looking for a bad faith excuse to kill you, they both got exactly what they wanted, I don't understand what the commotion is here.

Post by **NoxVS** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:34 pm #595881

terranaut wrote:
NoxVS wrote:what's really fucking lame is how he had himself borged and then broke his laws to be made back into a human

hypocrite kills an AI for breaking asimov, and then goes and breaks asimov immediately after
Asimov says you need to protect your own existence. It doesn't define whether that means your physical shell or your consciousness, with the latter obviously being preserved if you get put back into a body. Or anything, really.

it also says you need to follow your laws, becoming human again removes your obligation to follow asimov. you can't ask to be unborged for the same reason an AI can't bolt open their upload and ask to be purged

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:45 pm #595883

NoxVS wrote:
terranaut wrote:
NoxVS wrote:what's really fucking lame is how he had himself borged and then broke his laws to be made back into a human

hypocrite kills an AI for breaking asimov, and then goes and breaks asimov immediately after
Asimov says you need to protect your own existence. It doesn't define whether that means your physical shell or your consciousness, with the latter obviously being preserved if you get put back into a body. Or anything, really.
it also says you need to follow your laws, becoming human again removes your obligation to follow asimov. you can't ask to be unborged for the same reason an AI can't bolt open their upload and ask to be purged

That's more of a meta thing to avoid player abuse, if for example an RD says he'd like to upload a different core-set, you can oblige him. You can make an argument for either case (potentially harmful vs. not inherently harmful) and either will generally fly, but being Asimov doesn't mean you need to stay Asimov.

keepforgettingpw · Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:46 pm

The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov. Becoming a borg to get some info on the binary channel was a neat move, and seeing that the ai WAS alive and active and talking on the channel giving suspicious commands to other borgs, was well and fully within the right to kill the ai.

Assuming they were unsynced from the ai, which is what they said the robo was doing to the shells in robotics anyways.

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:47 pm #595885

keepforgettingpw wrote:The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov.

Wrong.

keepforgettingpw · Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:53 pm

terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov.
Wrong.

Not wrong, it's a violation of both law 1 and law 3.

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 10:58 pm #595888

keepforgettingpw wrote:
terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov.
Wrong.
Not wrong, it's a violation of both law 1 and law 3.

Wrong.

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:03 pm #595889

Manuelmins really need to stay in their own lane with this shit, it's like coming here and quoting rules from fucking fulp

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Thu Mar 18, 2021 11:43 pm #595894

terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:
terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov.
Wrong.
Not wrong, it's a violation of both law 1 and law 3.
Wrong.

You're pretty shit at understanding laws for an AI main

Agux909 · Post by **Agux909** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:30 am #595897

legality wrote:
zxaber wrote:Ignoring law 2 orders is not enough to warrent a kill and forget on the AI. We have a whole boatload of alternative lawsets that don't require an AI to follow orders while still not making the AI valid, and due to a recent change there is a chance that an alternative lawset can be the AI's roundstart laws. The AI might also have gotten purged too, you presumably had no way of finding out. So killing the AI on a hunch and not dragging the core back to science for a law check/revival is pretty dickish.

This particular AI was asimov, and apparently missing (or ignoring) valid orders. That's a job for an ahelp, not an invitation to also break silicon policy to secure a valid.
I would say that an AI demonstrating it's not bound by its laws (ignoring law 2 orders) is absolutely reason to decommission it. It's an extraordinarily dangerous piece of tech. Even if it's not "malfunctioning" as in an antagonist, it's obviously malfunctioning from an in character perspective.

Additionally, there should be no situation in which your character can't respond to events like the AI disobeying laws because you're supposed to adminhelp it. Ahelping to resolve a situation is an option, not an obligation. IC methods to deal with the situation, like deactivating an AI that is disobeying its laws - as opposed to having an admin pm them telling them to stop doing that - should be an acceptable way to deal with the situation. The AI player learns the consequences of twisting their laws to be petty, the player who does it is disciplined by security if necessary, et cetera.

Replying to something cimika said about the HoP saying it's fine meaning there's no reason to pursue the issue: this is not Manuel and there is no stay in your lane rule. Players on sibyl can take on the role of disciplining the AI if they want to (and are willing to accept the IC consequences).

Ok I brought these here since they were deemed as peanut in the appeal thread and I feel like they're pertinent.
With all the full context and the remarks from legality I can admit I didn't think about the situation from this angle. I'm gonna go meditate about it now.

If I don't post again in this peenut just refer to the incredibly wise quote in my signature.

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:38 am #595899

manueller utterly destroyed by facts and logic

Kassori · Post by **Kassori** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:04 am #595911

So, AI acts like an antag by stating its laws in a way that nobody can hear them.
AI acts like an antag, is treated like one.
A helps after intentionally pretending to be malf

How is this not ban baiting? Clown should be noted for not being in their own lane, but the AI was being a shitter and deserves a ban.

Post by **NoxVS** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 5:30 am #595912

Kassori wrote:So, AI acts like an antag by stating its laws in a way that nobody can hear them.
AI acts like an antag, is treated like one.
A helps after intentionally pretending to be malf

How is this not ban baiting? Clown should be noted for not being in their own lane, but the AI was being a shitter and deserves a ban.

It was Sybil, stay in your lane doesn’t matter.

AI is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Clown is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Everyone in this thread (myself included) is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for thinking participating in this peanut was a good use of their time

Malkraz · Post by **Malkraz** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 6:29 am #595913

Kassori wrote:Clown should be noted for not being in their own lane

It's unbelievable how every mongoloid manuel main thinks the rest of the servers work like their's

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:35 am #595922

carshalash wrote:
terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:
terranaut wrote:
keepforgettingpw wrote:The only thing the clown did wrong in this entire situation was asking to be unborged while still asimov.
Wrong.
Not wrong, it's a violation of both law 1 and law 3.
Wrong.
You're pretty shit at understanding laws for an AI main

I already explained why they're not clear-cut violations, you mouthbreathing trog.

carshalash · Post by **carshalash** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:35 am #595923

[2021-03-18 01:21:46.998] SAY: 01:21:46.998] SAY: PwntQ/(Indomitus) "I AM A HERO" (AI Satellite Hallway (177,29,3))
[2021-03-18 01:21:53.489] SAY: 01:21:53.489] SAY: PwntQ/(Indomitus) "AI ISDEAD" (AI Satellite Antechamber (177,26,2))
[2021-03-18 01:21:58.348] SAY: 01:21:58.348] SAY: PwntQ/(Indomitus) "UNLESS SOME IDIOT REVIVES IT" (AI Satellite Antechamber (177,26,2))

Damn, you guys are really simping this dude?

Istoprocent1 · Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:09 pm

NoxVS wrote: AI is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Clown is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Everyone in this thread (myself included) is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for thinking participating in this peanut was a good use of their time

This.

Although in defense of the newfriend AI, clown did opt for the most drastic measure rather than sneaking into the sat and carding the AI for lawset checks.

E: It kinda drifts into the territory of "I haven't seen botanist all shift, must be a tot, fireaxe tiem".

terranaut · Post by **terranaut** » Fri Mar 19, 2021 12:16 pm #595931

Istoprocent1 wrote:
NoxVS wrote: AI is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Clown is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for breaking asimov

Everyone in this thread (myself included) is a skulldented moron who should be yelled at for thinking participating in this peanut was a good use of their time
This.

Although in defense of the newfriend AI, clown did opt for the most drastic measure rather than sneaking into the sat and carding the AI for lawset checks.

E: It kinda drifts into the territory of "I haven't seen botanist all shift, must be a tot, fireaxe tiem".

Killing the AI as unsynced borg is infinitely easier than carding it as clown.