WGW smiting complaint peanut

[Not-Dorsidarf]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=28881


ill be honest, I'm actually not sure that FATAL is right here, despite how stupid admincomplaining being smited is. That clause is for orders which are abusive to the AI player (As it uses the examples to show), not orders which are annoying for other characters.

[Rohen_Tahir]

retardmin

[Mickyan]

If a human law 2'd you to jump off a bridge would you do it

[Farquaar]

If a human law 2'd you to jump off a bridge would you do it

How do you jump off of a bridge? Do you stand on the Captain's console?

[Horza]

>a rando making random grenades and drugs is ultimately responsible for the consequences, not the person activating or taking them
>a rando giving the AI random law 2 orders isn't responsible for the consequences, since sillycons are expected to memorize all silicon laws by heart
Extreme big-brain hours.

[Agux909]

It's Fatal. Who's surprised at this point?

[MortoSasye]

People make mistakes, there's 0 reason to be rude

[Horza]

People make mistakes, there's 0 reason to be rude

Spoiler:

No.

[Armhulen]

I see where he came from because I would consider stating WGW as an obnoxious order

[Malkraz]

How many "just mistakes" does it take before it's retarded incompetency

[Istoprocent1]

Do mentally delayed stuff (post degenerate stuff over comms rather than being yo dawg that shit whack), AI not antag (meaning antag round not impacted), get smitten, nobody getting permanently punished. Problem where exactly? Literally best outcome for being a degenerate IC.

Edit: When given an order likely to cause you grief if completed, you can announce it as loudly and in whatever terms you like except for explicitly asking that it be overridden. You can say you don't like the order, that you don't want to follow it, etc., you can say that you sure would like it and it would be awfully convenient if someone ordered you not to do it, and you can ask if anyone would like to make you not do it. However, you cannot stall indefinitely and if nobody orders you otherwise, you must execute the order.

[Agux909]

I see where he came from because I would consider stating WGW as an obnoxious order

It can be handled IC with no admin intervention. There's no need to remove the AI from the round just because they followed their laws. With regards to the rule, it's there to give some flexibility when some order would, for example, ruin the round for others (ie: AI law 2 kill all moth assistants and space their bodies), or ruin the round for yourself (pick every existing "X"). And even in these cases, the one responsible is still the one who gave the order 100%, in case the AI decides to follow it.

It would be a different story if the AI had said the WGW out of nowhere, but they just decided to follow a legitimate order.

This is shitmin behavior, pressing buttons when noone needed it and without second thouhts (or maybe they were drunk?). Being able to do it because they can rule lawyer it doesn't mean they have to. It's not like the AI ruined someone's round so why ruin theirs?

[ArcaneDefence]

Should've smited all people involved.

If you spam my chat log I'm going to smite you for being a dumbass spamming my chat log.
Should just be thankful that we're not in the darkest timeline where people get banned for wgw when we have rule 8.

Yes, wgw is about a story where a kid gets off to shoving toys inside themselves, piss gets everywhere, and the kid fucking dies.
Eat the smite and get over it. This situation is fucktarded, this complaint is a waste of everyone's time, and the only thing of benefit that could possibly come out of this thread is if people start fucking shitposting it up so help me god
[youtube]Izz4XKo3GPg[/youtube]

[NoxVS]

AIs have the ability to stop things like this. They should have (assuming they didn't) announced that they had been ordered to recite WGW. AIs have the freedom to announce law 2 orders that are likely to cause issues, and the crew could have then law 2ed them not to recite WGW.

[wesoda25]

If it wasn’t your intention to kill the player why would you not just throw them an aheal and say sorry?

[Armhulen]

It would be a different story if the AI had said the WGW out of nowhere, but they just decided to follow a legitimate order

It's still not a legitimate order if they're telling you to state something that gets anyone who says it killed without fail, and it's not an ic issue in the same way people impersonating the mime to make it look like they talked as nonantag since that has ooc precedent about lynching

[Armhulen]

That being said if that guy who made that order didnt get punished (more than just smite too) that's stupid and

If it wasn’t your intention to kill the player why would you not just throw them an aheal and say sorry?

This too

[technokek]

[Armhulen]

That being said if that guy who made that
didnt get punished (more than just smite too) that's stupid and

If it wasn’t your intention to kill the player why would you not just throw them an aheal and say sorry?

This too

The orderer did not get punished.

And why would Mr. FatalX1 care, he is a ebic admin and above such problems as being dead. He can just bwoink/grief/whatever to entertain himself.

Why I made this complaint mostly is the total disregard of him towards my situation literally going " You weren't needed for this round anyway" in dead chat. If he didn't want a AI in his highlander event maybe he should have told people not to join as the AI.

i just read your ticket and it was handled poorly if you post the logs of him telling you what you're quoting that is the easiest successful complaint of the century, gl.

[terranaut]

Why does this retard keep saying it was neither an unreasonable/meaningless nor obnoxious order? It's obviously all.

[Malkraz]

I was gonna say maybe he didn't know the legacy of WGW but then I looked at his post history and realized this is just another retard vs. retard peanut.

[BONERMASTER]

The AI gets permanently knocked out because it was ordered to do something the jannie didn't like, and the response is "it's nothing serious and basically your own fault anyways".

You know, If I as a player blew up the entire AI satellite because it quoted WGW, for some reason, I don't think that response would have worked.

[Malkraz]

Don't forget this kind of fire-and-forget horse shit is par for the course with Fatal "didn't read lol" X1
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 34&t=28644
But it's "just mistakes", right?

[Not-Dorsidarf]

1) Wow I didnt realise that thread got quietly trashcanned without any kind of headmin intervention or ruling what the fuck?

2) I'm detecting harsh and un cool vibes in my thread will the squares please desist

[Malkraz]

1) Wow I didnt realise that thread got quietly trashcanned without any kind of headmin intervention or ruling what the fuck?

There's multiple cases of this towards the end of the last headmin term.

[wesoda25]

Toxicity isn’t a good look on anyone, Malkraz

[Rohen_Tahir]

Toxicity isn’t a good look on anyone, Malkraz

????? BRITISH PERSON DETECTED! ?????

[Fhaxaris]

The occurrence of any of the following should be adminhelped and then disregarded as violations of Server Rule 1:

1.Declaring silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders.
2.Ordering silicons to harm or terminate themselves or each other without good cause.
3.As a nonantagonist, killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a reasonable alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion.
4.As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with silicons so you can kill them.
5.Threatening self-harm to force an AI to do something it otherwise wouldn't.
6.Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task).

The AI should of adminhelped and disregarded the request, but the human shouldn't have made the request in the first place.

[Armhulen]

The occurrence of any of the following should be adminhelped and then disregarded as violations of Server Rule 1:

1.Declaring silicons as rogue over inability or unwillingness to follow invalid or conflicting orders.
2.Ordering silicons to harm or terminate themselves or each other without good cause.
3.As a nonantagonist, killing or detonating silicons in the presence of a reasonable alternative and without cause to be concerned of potential subversion.
4.As a nonantagonist (human or otherwise), instigating conflict with silicons so you can kill them.
5.Threatening self-harm to force an AI to do something it otherwise wouldn't.
6.Obviously unreasonable or obnoxious orders (collect all X, do Y meaningless task).

The AI should of adminhelped and disregarded the request, but the human shouldn't have made the request in the first place.

kinda what i was saying, the person who made the request should have been talked to

[Malkraz]

Toxicity isn’t a good look on anyone, Malkraz

True "You weren't needed for this round anyway" is pretty toxic to the playerbase

[Vekter]

Why are we even entertaining a complaint that reads "I was told to do something stupid and I did it, now I'm upset that there were consequences for my actions"? Just delete the thread and move on, who fucking cares

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Why are we even entertaining a complaint that reads "I was told to do something stupid AS THE ROLE THAT HAS TO DO WHAT PEOPLE TELL YOU TO DO and I did it, now I'm upset that there were consequences for my actions"? Just delete the thread and move on, who fucking cares

I fixed that for you buddy

[ArcaneDefence]

Your honor, I simply **HAD** to recite the story of a child stuffing toys up their ass, getting coated in piss, and fucking dying.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, I WAS A ROBOT. I HAD TO DO IT!!

[Qustinnus]

Your honor, I simply **HAD** to recite the story of a child stuffing toys up their ass, getting coated in piss, and fucking dying.
YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, I WAS A ROBOT. I HAD TO DO IT!!

bro are you okay? Did you gets toys forced up your ass as a kid?

[BONERMASTER]

For some strange reason, whenever something about sex comes up, jannies become very defensive.

[Farquaar]

An AI should be protected in the event it is given a malicious order. This should be an open and shut case.

If I get a law 2 order to kill an innocent xeno, should I ahelp it so an admin can tell me whether the guy giving the order is an antag or not? If I get a law 2 order to turn off some nonvital equipment, should I ahelp before I do it just in case the guy giving the order is griefing? The answer is no. An AI follows orders that don’t conflict with its laws. It’s not on any “team”. It’s not supposed to enforce a particular admin’s idea of /tg/station etiquette. It’s supposed to make input equal output as best it can.

Silicon policy is messy enough as it is without allowing stuff like this to stick as precedent.

[NoxVS]

When given an order likely to cause you grief if completed, you can announce it as loudly and in whatever terms you like except for explicitly asking that it be overridden. You can say you don't like the order, that you don't want to follow it, etc., you can say that you sure would like it and it would be awfully convenient if someone ordered you not to do it, and you can ask if anyone would like to make you not do it. However, you cannot stall indefinitely and if nobody orders you otherwise, you must execute the order.

[technokek]

[MortoSasye]

Guys I love you but please don't be stupid and seriously defend someone being removed from a round for following an order.

The guy that should have been removed was the one that asked for the AI to say it, not the AI itself.

[Armhulen]

Guys I love you but please don't be stupid and seriously defend someone being removed from a round for following an order.

The guy that should have been removed was the one that asked for the AI to say it, not the AI itself.

To be fair there is a very subjective rule about ignoring and ahelping orders like this and the other precedent set is setting admins on wild goose chases for who was the originator of the copypasta instead of who said it which is dumb. The man trying to get the ai to say stuff that makes it OOCly valid is something that should have been cracked down on but I think it's safe to say if you connect to our 45 minute game >1000 times you should know by now that saying WGW = valid

[Agux909]

Look, the complaint is not there to deadmin or suspend Fatal. It's just so he owns up, admits he fucked up and made a shitty call, and so it can be set as precedent for the next time so he doesn't repeat this kind of negligent behavior, as he has done like 2 or 3 times already.

I was participant of this event and everything points to Fatal just being high on his horse, deciding the round didn't need an AI, and round removing it when he was given the excuse for it (if this isn't textbook admin abuse, albeit in a roundabout way, I don't know what is).
I remember reading the WGW as I was chasing for the one carrying the disk and I was like "bruh", until I read that it was the AI. So I figured someone had to give it the order and the AI obviously had to comply. It didn't ruin my round or make me cry, and neither it did for the rest of the highlanders, which were just focused on getting the disk and killing anyone getting on their way. Noone was rushing the sat to kill the AI because it said the WGW either. And never in a thousand years would I have imagined that the AI was smited for this, I just thought it kept watching and doing things around the station without speaking in comms.

As I said in my previous post, the AI didn't ruin the round for anyone, it just followed a legitimate order that didn't harm anyone, so why ruin the round for them? Are you guys such banbots that defend this rule lawyering instead of seeing the context and how removing the AI didn't improve the round or gave any beneficial impact to anyone? Fatal fucked up and pressed a button for his own satisfaction, period. Let him (and advise him to) own up for it and don't spoil him like he's a baby doing something they shouldn't do.

[Farquaar]

Agux spitting straight facts

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Guys I love you but please don't be stupid and seriously defend someone being removed from a round for following an order.

The guy that should have been removed was the one that asked for the AI to say it, not the AI itself.

To be fair there is a very subjective rule about ignoring and ahelping orders like this and the other precedent set is setting admins on wild goose chases for who was the originator of the copypasta instead of who said it which is dumb. The man trying to get the ai to say stuff that makes it OOCly valid is something that should have been cracked down on but I think it's safe to say if you connect to our 45 minute game >1000 times you should know by now that saying WGW = valid

Thing is there is literally no other scenario where you as an AI get punished for following an order, unless it's something that breaks law 1 etc.

The tradeoff is you tend to get put under extra scrutiny for anything else you do especially since there's usually only ever one of you.

[Critawakets]

actually, AI was breaking law 1 in this case. WGW causes massive harm to the psyche of anyone that listens to it, making it human harm.

Checkmate, losers

[Agux909]

actually, AI was breaking law 1 in this case. WGW causes massive harm to the psyche of anyone that listens to it, making it human harm.

Checkmate, losers

You can't hear text, your checkmate was a mere illusion. Checkmate.

[MortoSasye]

Guys I love you but please don't be stupid and seriously defend someone being removed from a round for following an order.

The guy that should have been removed was the one that asked for the AI to say it, not the AI itself.

To be fair there is a very subjective rule about ignoring and ahelping orders like this and the other precedent set is setting admins on wild goose chases for who was the originator of the copypasta instead of who said it which is dumb. The man trying to get the ai to say stuff that makes it OOCly valid is something that should have been cracked down on but I think it's safe to say if you connect to our 45 minute game >1000 times you should know by now that saying WGW = valid

Ok but can we agree the AI is not the one to blame, that the ticket was handled in a poor manner and that removing someone from the round to then go "oh you weren't needed anyway" is bad.

[BONERMASTER]

Morto, what do I always say? Criticism to jannies is like sunlight to vampires. It is literally impossible for a jannie to accept his wrong doing and exist at the same time. And judging by how sweaty this guy handles the situation, there isn't even enough space in his head to imagine an opposing opinion. The only good play here is to deadmin him ASAP to set an example for the rest of the jannies. Because while reason does not work, fear does greatly, and it'll motivate the lower level jannies to not fuck up this badly.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Morto, what do I always say? Criticism to jannies is like sunlight to vampires. It is literally impossible for a jannie to accept his wrong doing and exist at the same time. And judging by how sweaty this guy handles the situation, there isn't even enough space in his head to imagine an opposing opinion. The only good play here is to deadmin him ASAP to set an example for the rest of the jannies. Because while reason does not work, fear does greatly, and it'll motivate the lower level jannies to not fuck up this badly.

Imagine posting this on a thread for a fuckup this fucking minor.

[Malkraz]

u have "chungus planet" on ur profile

[Irad]

actually, AI was breaking law 1 in this case. WGW causes massive harm to the psyche of anyone that listens to it, making it human harm.

Checkmate, losers

policy that AI must disable telecommunications whenever wgw is read when?