reverse manuel admin experience admin complaint(s) peanut megathread

[bobbahbrown]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=28886

alternatively https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=28887

thread theme:
[youtube]nendMLrpI-s[/youtube]

[Aloraydrel]

gm bee, i love ur pfp i laughed at itt hehe!

[bigfatbananacyclops]

[Cobby]

Ex headmin decided to fuel the flames in OOC and let them run unfettered instead of asking them what was up and telling them to knock it off had they found the reason to be inappropriate? Even if they were playing I would have expected maybe a F1 or something.

Complaint looks pretty straightforward but It just seems like the situation didn’t, shouldn’t even, have to get to that point especially if another admin (gamemaster even) was on.

[Malkraz]

lol

[Qustinnus]

lol that's some shit conduct. I hope that shit map doesn't get merged.

[Farquaar]

I'm glad other people wrote complaints about this. That was an awesome round with clown hijinks, a collaborative megaproject, and a robust crew who nearly got wiped out by a malf AI, all unceremoniously crapped on because I'M AN ADMIN LOL GO CRY ABOUT IT

[Armhulen]

lesson 1 on speeding up a round

dont get caught

[Malkraz]

admins are the biggest detriment to ss13 prove me wrong

[Qustinnus]

As a side note, this is why I don't add admin controls to my features when I can avoid it. Clearly noone here can handle not pressing every single button on their screen when given admin privs.

[bigfatbananacyclops]

Ex headmin decided to fuel the flames in OOC and let them run unfettered instead of asking them what was up and telling them to knock it off had they found the reason to be inappropriate? Even if they were playing I would have expected maybe a F1 or something.

Complaint looks pretty straightforward but It just seems like the situation didn’t, shouldn’t even, have to get to that point especially if another admin (gamemaster even) was on.

im not sure if owegno is aware of this but this really isn't a situation where you'd ask them whats going on and tell em to knock it off; paxil has adminabused several times while prioritizing their own fun several times, besides what owegno said (paxil doing this consecutively for like 3 days), they have spawned themselves as an arms dealer giving away deadly gear, while this is supposedly a gimmick to make the round fun it really doesn't look like they're trying to. another example would be building an entire room for a ''date'' they took part in, nobody was watching this nor does it contribute anything. from my perspective i think paxil just tends to press buttons ultimately looking for their own enjoyment over others. no i dont have any proof i just witnessed.

[NikoTheGuyDude]

> I mostly play on and moderate the non-european lrp servers, and I'm not entirely used to what Manuel considers normal or acceptable. I'll wake up tomorrow and probably wonder why the hell I did any of this. I made a mistake and misjudged over 50 people's ability to kill a stationary object, so forgive me, nobody's perfect.

Gotta love that condescending tone!

Also, blob is extremely powerful, all you gotta do to see how strong it really is is to watch a few of naloac's videos.

[Armhulen]

im not sure if owegno is aware of this but this really isn't a situation where you'd ask them whats going on and tell em to knock it off; paxil has adminabused several times while prioritizing their own fun several times, besides what owegno said (paxil doing this consecutively for like 3 days), they have spawned themselves as an arms dealer giving away deadly gear, while this is supposedly a gimmick to make the round fun it really doesn't look like they're trying to. another example would be building an entire room for a ''date'' they took part in, nobody was watching this nor does it contribute anything. from my perspective i think paxil just tends to press buttons ultimately looking for their own enjoyment over others.

Oh here we go, bigfat dropping the TEA! LETS GO

no i dont have any proof i just witnessed.

[Misdoubtful]

Aren't April Fools pranks supposed to be confusing out of the ordinary things that end with people laughing once they figure it out?

Cruelty that ends in anger as part of a prank or setting one up isn't something I'd sort highly on my list of good pranks.

[iwishforducks]

I was quite surprised, as the station was in great condition until the blob showed up and steamrolled everyone. So I did a little log-diving. What I found was that basically nobody was dead aside from antagonists. Here are all deaths (out of 55 players) that occurred before Paxil triggered the Blob. These can be verified from game.txt and attack.txt.

Spoiler:

Bobson Dugnutt died at 11:42. Revived at 11:51

Quinn Scott died at 11:43. He was a traitor, and logged out right after at 11:44.

Joachim Straub died at 11:58. Revived at 12:00

Khachatur Fox died at 11:52. Revived at 12:06

Joey Petunia died at 12:10. Revived at 12:21

Tucker Throne died at 12:09. Revived at 12:26

Paxil triggers Space Dragon at 12:17

D.O.N.G.L.E. destroyed at 12:21 while serving a malf AI.

Lance Zalack died at 12:23. Chose to respawn as an Abductor.

Adam Fisher died at 12:23. Revived at 12:29.

Space Dragon died at 12:27.

ANDROMEDA wiped at 12:28:39. It was a malf AI.

Paxil triggers blob at 12:28:42.

this was the funniest thing to read after reading paxil's dramatic "the entire station was on fire and dead"

[iamgoofball]

i literally am more responsible during testmerges as a debugger

and they let paxil be admin?

[Cobby]

Ex headmin decided to fuel the flames in OOC and let them run unfettered instead of asking them what was up and telling them to knock it off had they found the reason to be inappropriate? Even if they were playing I would have expected maybe a F1 or something.

Complaint looks pretty straightforward but It just seems like the situation didn’t, shouldn’t even, have to get to that point especially if another admin (gamemaster even) was on.

im not sure if owegno is aware of this but this really isn't a situation where you'd ask them whats going on and tell em to knock it off; paxil has adminabused several times while prioritizing their own fun several times, besides what owegno said (paxil doing this consecutively for like 3 days), they have spawned themselves as an arms dealer giving away deadly gear, while this is supposedly a gimmick to make the round fun it really doesn't look like they're trying to. another example would be building an entire room for a ''date'' they took part in, nobody was watching this nor does it contribute anything. from my perspective i think paxil just tends to press buttons ultimately looking for their own enjoyment over others. no i dont have any proof i just witnessed.

Who cares if they have a history of this (not reported history ???) they saw something they thought was personally out of line and seemed to be perfectly fine with not bothering to ask while also happily making the suggestion ooc that they were rushing to get the map pushed when, again, they are a gamemaster (EX HEADMIN) and can easily inquire AND correct that. That seems really underhanded to me, not that it should necessarily matter for the complaint but to bitch about a spark that ended up taking the house in flames while holding a filled water bucket seems a bit odd and at the very least doesn’t promote that admins should be working together.

Just seems scummy and they don’t do themselves any favors while also happily taking a similar position on the forums either.

[iamgoofball]

[Owegno]

Since some people here are questioning me and other admins who were on at the time the other admins I believe were busy training an AC as I noticed they were in the training channel at the time and I don't blame them for not getting into an admin fight over this.

As for myself I wasn't really aware of what was going on in the round initially, hence why I didn't do anything. I got on the server to see Paxil buffing a blob which I thought was spawned by random event. I spent most of that round trying to figure out the situation, first by trying to learn how blob code works to see how much they buffed so I could judge if it was balanced or not (and it is takes me time to figure out code, hence my original false belief that they effectively gave the blob 5 free resource nodes, but I now know that the blob_points and blob_bonus_points uses a separate, longer timer from the ones resource nodes use). I did question their buffing of the blob and was going to remove the buffs once it was clear the blob was too powerful for the crew, but the blob rerolled before I could do that which had removed the buffs. I was considering using admin explosions to nerf the blob a bit more to make it a balanced fight for the crew (as the blob was at around 250/400 at this point if my memory serves), but I decided to check admin logs first and spent the rest of the round reading them, as a result I missed them later buffing the blob after it rerolled.

By the time the round ended I was nearly done reading the admin logs but had not fully formulated an opinion on it and didn't want to argue with Paxil given that I thought a headmin approved their actions. I only realized that Jimmius may have just been making a joke and not approving Paxil as I finalized my post. However I firmly believe in transparency so when people in OOC asked if the blob was admin spawned I told OOC that yes, it was admin spawned, and that it was buffed by the admin which spawned. However I did get it wrong about how much it was buffed which is my fault. I should have kept quiet on the amount until I was certain on it and I apologize for that.

To conclude on reasons why I didn't yell at Paxil for it is because I was uncertain on how much they buffed the blob (and when I was somewhat certain I went to fix it, but the blob fixed itself) I did question them on it and that is what led me to look at the admin logs to see what led up to this. I don't want to yell at someone when I don't know the situation, it could be that the round did in fact need to end for a valid reason. I then discovered that Paxil had gotten approval from Jimmius (or what I thought was approval, although it may just be Jimmius's tactic approval but I thought it was overt approval at the time) and I'm not able to overrule a headmin. Instead I tried to gather a full picture of what had happened so I could bring it up with a different headmin and I was considering making a complaint so this could be handled in a transparent manner and the incident had already happened.

tl;dr: Other admins were busy training an AC, I arrived at the end of the incident, saw something I disagreed with and thought it was headmin approved. It's taken me several hours to fully figure it out and even then I am uncertain on if it was headmin approved.

[Imaginos]

Since some people here are questioning me and other admins who were on at the time the other admins I believe were busy training an AC as I noticed they were in the training channel at the time and I don't blame them for not getting into an admin fight over this.

Can confirm, I was the candidate. I remember seeing the messages fly by in asay, but mostly ignored it since I was more focused in learning the tools. Quite unfortunate the events that happened well- happened, but that's what admin complaints are for. That's all I'll say on the matter!

[oranges]

april fools and owegno getting salty about april fools events name a more iconic duo

[oranges]

Also, blob is extremely powerful, all you gotta do to see how strong it really is is to watch a few of naloac's videos.

explain to me the blob win rate percentage then

[NoxVS]

Also, blob is extremely powerful, all you gotta do to see how strong it really is is to watch a few of naloac's videos.

survivorship bias

[Fhaxaris]

[2021-04-03 00:28:16.557] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "i was about to press the xenos button but last time I saw xenos on manuel" (Chapel (182,134,4))
[2021-04-03 00:28:25.412] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "they actually fucking rp'd with the xenos" (Chapel (182,134,4))
[2021-04-03 00:28:29.571] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "manuel players suck" (Chapel (182,134,4))
[2021-04-03 00:28:31.170] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jimmius/(Clyde Thunderpants) "manuel cares not for your admin bussing" (Starboard Bow Maintenance (169,149,4))
[2021-04-03 00:28:42.562] ADMIN: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) has triggered an event. (Blob)
[2021-04-03 00:28:44.192] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Jimmius/(Clyde Thunderpants) "press all the buttons you like, the shuttle isn't getting called" (Chapel (185,147,4))
[2021-04-03 00:28:48.442] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "rp this fucker" (Starboard Primary Hallway (161,129,4))
[2021-04-03 00:35:27.119] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "we do a little trolling" (Primary Tool Storage (74,148,4))
[2021-04-03 00:35:47.013] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Owegno/(Luvenia Afriel) "I doubt that is a good idea." (Primary Tool Storage (77,146,4))
[2021-04-03 00:35:54.644] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "its not" (Fore Maintenance (79,153,4))
[2021-04-03 00:35:57.285] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "but i dont care" (Fore Maintenance (80,153,4))

based level: 2 billion

[iamgoofball]

So, regarding the blob point generation, I decided to test it on a local server.

You literally cannot naturally get 9 to 10 point generation(which is what Paxil gave the blob with the 5+5 and the 2+7 after the reroll) every blob tick without the game ending due to blob reaching critical mass, due to the distance requirements on Nodes and Resources.

I had to start quickly taking pictures of my immense girth taking up all of the Kitchen, the Theater, the Hydroponics Bay, and maintenance behind it all on Metastation before the nuke went off and every tile got blob'd due to Critical Mass.
This was the size of a full department in just blob tiles.

Ignore the absurd point value, it does that when you reach critical mass since the game's over. I had to start screencapping then as I hadn't expected to reach critical mass just yet.




It took me 19 minutes to reach that point, with zero players obstructing me and spending none of my points on factories, blob spores, blobbernauts, rerolls, or shield blobs because I was on an empty test server by myself.


Paxilmaniac literally gave this blob more regen than a post end-game blob within the first four minutes of it being alive.

If this isn't an attempt by an admin to force end the round for personal gain(getting the ISS testmerge up faster), I don't know what is.

[oranges]

it'll be very difficult to make the headadmins care about this from what I can see, it's no worse than using highlander to end a round for technical reasons.

[iamgoofball]

it'll be very difficult to make the headadmins care about this from what I can see, it's no worse than using highlander to end a round for technical reasons.

nah, there's a case for it, because forcing the round to end for technical reasons means something legitimately is broken and it needs fixed

nothing was broken, except paxilmaniac's impulse control apparently

[oranges]

I have ended rounds for less and with way more disruption

[iamgoofball]

I have ended rounds for less and with way more disruption

the difference is you're my boss and its cool

paxilmaniac is not my boss, it is not cool

[wesoda25]

So, regarding the blob point generation, I decided to test it on a local server.

You literally cannot naturally get 9 to 10 point generation(which is what Paxil gave the blob with the 5+5 and the 2+7 after the reroll) every blob tick without the game ending due to blob reaching critical mass, due to the distance requirements on Nodes and Resources.

I had to start quickly taking pictures of my immense girth taking up all of the Kitchen, the Theater, the Hydroponics Bay, and maintenance behind it all on Metastation before the nuke went off and every tile got blob'd due to Critical Mass.
This was the size of a full department in just blob tiles.

Ignore the absurd point value, it does that when you reach critical mass since the game's over. I had to start screencapping then as I hadn't expected to reach critical mass just yet.




It took me 19 minutes to reach that point, with zero players obstructing me and spending none of my points on factories, blob spores, blobbernauts, rerolls, or shield blobs because I was on an empty test server by myself.


Paxilmaniac literally gave this blob more regen than a post end-game blob within the first four minutes of it being alive.

If this isn't an attempt by an admin to force end the round for personal gain(getting the ISS testmerge up faster), I don't know what is.

This just proves it

[Tlaltecuhtli]

if forcing a small and fragile map is considered admin grief, would it mean kilo existing is coder grief?

[Armhulen]

if forcing a small and fragile map is considered admin grief, would it mean kilo existing is coder grief?

what's the admins gonna do about that huh??

[oranges]

kilo is ban bait

edit: it literally caused a bunch of bans no cap

[TheFinalPotato]

Multiz sound is ban bait

[Farquaar]

Spoiler:

So, regarding the blob point generation, I decided to test it on a local server.

You literally cannot naturally get 9 to 10 point generation(which is what Paxil gave the blob with the 5+5 and the 2+7 after the reroll) every blob tick without the game ending due to blob reaching critical mass, due to the distance requirements on Nodes and Resources.

I had to start quickly taking pictures of my immense girth taking up all of the Kitchen, the Theater, the Hydroponics Bay, and maintenance behind it all on Metastation before the nuke went off and every tile got blob'd due to Critical Mass.
This was the size of a full department in just blob tiles.

Ignore the absurd point value, it does that when you reach critical mass since the game's over. I had to start screencapping then as I hadn't expected to reach critical mass just yet.




It took me 19 minutes to reach that point, with zero players obstructing me and spending none of my points on factories, blob spores, blobbernauts, rerolls, or shield blobs because I was on an empty test server by myself.


Paxilmaniac literally gave this blob more regen than a post end-game blob within the first four minutes of it being alive.

If this isn't an attempt by an admin to force end the round for personal gain(getting the ISS testmerge up faster), I don't know what is.

That's some mighty fine investigating, Goof. I just hope this doesn't get forgotten in the peanut. It's very relevant info.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

if forcing a small and fragile map is considered admin grief, would it mean kilo existing is coder grief?

what's the admins gonna do about that huh??

ban maintainers for indirect griefing and gang raiding

[oranges]

man that'll really show them

[MrStonedOne]

I often and frequently and with no regret ended rounds to test merge my own prs.

Even I wouldn't have done this to manuel and respect that higher rp means longer rounds with higher investment in the round by the players. (and I've maybe observed 5 minutes total of manual rounds)

HOWEVER! if I had! This is how I would do it:

Use the game panel item spawner (not the spawn verb) to spawn 10 spiderlings in a random empty room with vents.

wait.

spawn 15 more.

wait.

Spawn 20 more.

.... and so on.

It seems stupid, but nothing like fighting thru wave after wave of spiders to force a shuttle call while giving the crew an enjoyable fight, you can dynamically add more based on how well they are doing, add some lore by ramming a single meteor in and spawning them there along with a centcom alert about lifesigns detected onboard "whatever the hell that was that just hit your station", and hell, while they are distracted with the spiders you can trigger machine intelligence. Maybe you just start making some of them sentient as they get closer and closer to the core area. Once the shuttle calls add an ert but wait until point of no return to send them to the station to give them a satisfying end to the chaos.

When you dip your hands into the round like that, you do so as a DM, not as an admin.

[oranges]

there's an unspoken principle amongst keyholders not to test merge shit to manuel because they whine so much, someone must have forgotten to let jimmius know

[IkeTG]

honestly every single person including the admins online on manuel at the time got owned

[RaveRadbury]

[2021-04-03 00:28:29.571] ADMINPRIVATE: ASAY: Paxilmaniac/(Cydia Ferrilinea) "manuel players suck" (Chapel (182,134,4))

you hate to see it

[Misdoubtful]

I often and frequently and with no regret ended rounds to test merge my own prs.

Even I wouldn't have done this to manuel and respect that higher rp means longer rounds with higher investment in the round by the players. (and I've maybe observed 5 minutes total of manual rounds)

HOWEVER! if I had! This is how I would do it:

Use the game panel item spawner (not the spawn verb) to spawn 10 spiderlings in a random empty room with vents.

wait.

spawn 15 more.

wait.

Spawn 20 more.

.... and so on.

It seems stupid, but nothing like fighting thru wave after wave of spiders to force a shuttle call while giving the crew an enjoyable fight, you can dynamically add more based on how well they are doing, add some lore by ramming a single meteor in and spawning them there along with a centcom alert about lifesigns detected onboard "whatever the hell that was that just hit your station", and hell, while they are distracted with the spiders you can trigger machine intelligence. Maybe you just start making some of them sentient as they get closer and closer to the core area. Once the shuttle calls add an ert but wait until point of no return to send them to the station to give them a satisfying end to the chaos.

When you dip your hands into the round like that, you do so as a DM, not as an admin.

This is it really. Mindless cruelty doesn't make for a good experience. This is true anywhere honestly. Its not some unobtainable pedestal to make things at least a little interesting while also pursuing an agenda.

Every server can be DM'd its not a Manuel specific thing. People can opt to good faith a rounds events, interventions, and conclusions. I'm also not saying this did or didn't attempt to do that, but its a nice hill I'd die fighting on.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

omg he spawned an antag on a full crew with no deads or anything else happening OMFG think of the children's rp

[MortoSasye]

Legit what the fuck

[Farquaar]

Spoiler:

I often and frequently and with no regret ended rounds to test merge my own prs.

Even I wouldn't have done this to manuel and respect that higher rp means longer rounds with higher investment in the round by the players. (and I've maybe observed 5 minutes total of manual rounds)

HOWEVER! if I had! This is how I would do it:

Use the game panel item spawner (not the spawn verb) to spawn 10 spiderlings in a random empty room with vents.

wait.

spawn 15 more.

wait.

Spawn 20 more.

.... and so on.

It seems stupid, but nothing like fighting thru wave after wave of spiders to force a shuttle call while giving the crew an enjoyable fight, you can dynamically add more based on how well they are doing, add some lore by ramming a single meteor in and spawning them there along with a centcom alert about lifesigns detected onboard "whatever the hell that was that just hit your station", and hell, while they are distracted with the spiders you can trigger machine intelligence. Maybe you just start making some of them sentient as they get closer and closer to the core area. Once the shuttle calls add an ert but wait until point of no return to send them to the station to give them a satisfying end to the chaos.

When you dip your hands into the round like that, you do so as a DM, not as an admin.

I don’t think anyone would have had a problem with that approach. Even if it cut an eventful round short, that approach would have been a gradual ramp-up that would have at least made for a fun struggle for survival. It’s leagues better than “hey fuck you I’m an admin everybody dies to mechanically unbeatable antag u should have called the shuttle lol go cry about it PRANKED”

[MortoSasye]

Spoiler:

I often and frequently and with no regret ended rounds to test merge my own prs.

Even I wouldn't have done this to manuel and respect that higher rp means longer rounds with higher investment in the round by the players. (and I've maybe observed 5 minutes total of manual rounds)

HOWEVER! if I had! This is how I would do it:

Use the game panel item spawner (not the spawn verb) to spawn 10 spiderlings in a random empty room with vents.

wait.

spawn 15 more.

wait.

Spawn 20 more.

.... and so on.

It seems stupid, but nothing like fighting thru wave after wave of spiders to force a shuttle call while giving the crew an enjoyable fight, you can dynamically add more based on how well they are doing, add some lore by ramming a single meteor in and spawning them there along with a centcom alert about lifesigns detected onboard "whatever the hell that was that just hit your station", and hell, while they are distracted with the spiders you can trigger machine intelligence. Maybe you just start making some of them sentient as they get closer and closer to the core area. Once the shuttle calls add an ert but wait until point of no return to send them to the station to give them a satisfying end to the chaos.

When you dip your hands into the round like that, you do so as a DM, not as an admin.

I don’t think anyone would have had a problem with that approach. Even if it cut an eventful round short, that approach would have been a gradual ramp-up that would have at least made for a fun struggle for survival. It’s leagues better than “hey fuck you I’m an admin everybody dies to mechanically unbeatable antag u should have called the shuttle lol go cry about it PRANKED”

[mrmelbert]

manuel players suck

rp this fucker

we do a little trolling

I made a mistake and misjudged over 50 people's ability to kill a stationary object

I buffed an antag that's already barely balanced against a playerbase I have no expectations of and they lost?

How?

[Dankasaur]

time to vague lol post


lol

[oranges]

stop saying blob is barely balanced it has about a 1% win rate against the crew it's fucking embarassing you would even say that.

[iamgoofball]

omg he spawned an antag on a full crew with no deads or anything else happening OMFG think of the children's rp

they didn't spawn an antag

they spawned an antag and then gave it 10x power