secnut tidenut

[Malkraz]

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29231
>Dom rulings
better luck with the admin lotto next time man

[FloranOtten]

10.Losing is part of the game.
Your character will frequently die, sometimes without even a possibility of avoiding it. Events will often be out of your control. No matter how good or prepared you are, sometimes you just lose.

Indeed. No matter how good or prepared you are... So why not be as good and prepared as you can be?

Because losing is part of the game. It's supposed to happen. Desperately trying everything you can to minimize losing always comes at the cost of the rest of the players. You're trying to escape part of the game. Don't.

[sinfulbliss]

Desperately trying everything you can to minimize losing always comes at the cost of the rest of the players. You're trying to escape part of the game. Don't.

There's nothing wrong with losing, to be sure. But if you're sec, you should try to do everything you can to minimize losing. That will be to the benefit of the crew, as a dead sec team usually means an antag killing people.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Desperately trying everything you can to minimize losing always comes at the cost of the rest of the players. You're trying to escape part of the game. Don't.

There's nothing wrong with losing, to be sure. But if you're sec, you should try to do everything you can to minimize losing. That will be to the benefit of the crew, as a dead sec team usually means an antag killing people.

Understanding fictional events requires one to distinguish reality from fantasy, and thus engages high-level processes including executive functions and imagination, both of which are impaired in autism spectrum disorder.

[BONERMASTER]

You can however minimize losing by getting good (at the game).


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

[Flatulent]

I'm loving all these 2014 and onwards accounts trying to explain to me that tg isn't MRP

go back to whatever hole you climbed out of and die

if you love mrp so much, log on to manuel and play it then, it needs guidance of you old players. or are you willing to say that manuel is up to your pre 2014 standards?

[sinfulbliss]

Understanding fictional events requires one to distinguish reality from fantasy, and thus engages high-level processes including executive functions and imagination, both of which are impaired in autism spectrum disorder.

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being, and thus engages high-level processes including social skills and flirtation, both of which are impaired in virgin disorder.

[Farquaar]

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being

What a peculiar comment to make in our libertine age of modernity.

[sinfulbliss]

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being

What a peculiar comment to make in our libertine age of modernity.

I mean even at rock fuckin' bottom which might be a Tinder date, you still have to establish some sort of basic human connection before you... You know.
Well I guess rock bottom would in theory be just a straight up hooker, but even then there is a basic human connection you'd have to make so they'd know you're not off your fuckin' rocker first.

EDIT: It wouldn't be fair to call a Tinder date rock bottom actually, I've had meaningful relationships through Tinder. But you get the point.

[Jonathan Gupta]

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being

What a peculiar comment to make in our libertine age of modernity.

I mean even at rock fuckin' bottom which might be a Tinder date, you still have to establish some sort of basic human connection before you... You know.
Well I guess rock bottom would in theory be just a straight up hooker, but even then there is a basic human connection you'd have to make so they'd know you're not off your fuckin' rocker first.

EDIT: It wouldn't be fair to call a Tinder date rock bottom actually, I've had meaningful relationships through Tinder. But you get the point.

as scout once said, I got some chicken, wanna have sex?

[IkeTG]

I mean even at rock fuckin' bottom which might be a Tinder date, you still have to establish some sort of basic human connection before you... You know.

not at all

[Rohen_Tahir]

Understanding fictional events requires one to distinguish reality from fantasy, and thus engages high-level processes including executive functions and imagination, both of which are impaired in autism spectrum disorder.

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being, and thus engages high-level processes including social skills and flirtation, both of which are impaired in virgin disorder.

I do not have this "virgin disorder", I think you're confusing me with Jonathan Gupta or one of the admins.
Also FYI forming emotional connections with other humans exclusively through things that involve flirtation is not normal, your mother lied to you.

[Jonathan Gupta]

Understanding fictional events requires one to distinguish reality from fantasy, and thus engages high-level processes including executive functions and imagination, both of which are impaired in autism spectrum disorder.

Having sex requires one to create an emotional connection with another human being, and thus engages high-level processes including social skills and flirtation, both of which are impaired in virgin disorder.

I do not have this "virgin disorder", I think you're confusing me with Jonathan Gupta or one of the admins.
Also FYI forming emotional connections with other humans exclusively through things that involve flirtation is not normal, your mother lied to you.

I have one-night stands asshole.

[Timonk]

i love this ban

>see random assistant on arrest at red alert
>hmm yes time to shoot
>suprised pikachu face

[Jonathan Gupta]

i love this ban

>see random assistant on arrest at red alert
>hmm yes time to shoot
>suprised Pikachu face

>see random assistant on arrest
>HANDS UP!
>baton
>shoot cause valid
>ban
>surprised Pikachu face

[Timonk]

Having a baton doesn't make u valid

[Timonk]

Also it's more like
>shoot
>has baton
>is valid

[Jonathan Gupta]

Having a baton doesn't make u valid

we gotta have a policy post about this

[Timonk]

Valid to be arrested but nothing else

[sinfulbliss]

I had to edit them like 10 times because of all the possible fringe cases, but here are some decent crew-sec polices IMO:

1. If a non-antagonist attempts to incapacitate or injure an officer without good reason, the officer is allowed to retaliate with lethal force.

Applying (1) to this case, the officer's opening shots of lethals provided the tider good reason to retaliate with a stun weapon, or even lethals of their own (although the latter would open them up to being killed according to escalation rules). If the officer had fired disablers instead to begin with, then the tider would not have had good reason to reply with a stunbaton as a nonantag, and therefore the officer would be allowed to kill him.

(2), (3), and (4) just fill out what would make for reasonable laws around crew-sec conflict.

2. Non-antagonists are allowed to use lethal force against officers that harm them only if the harm can be reasonably judged as a gross miscarriage of justice.

Ex. of 2) You steal and deepfry an officer's disabler, then give it back to them. The officer, in response, begins slashing you repeatedly with a combat knife, full-strips you, and brigs you for theft. This is clearly a disproportionate response to the offense, and as a result you earn the right to lethal them back according to rules of escalation. If you end up killing them, you shouldn't be bwoinked despite being a nonantag.

3. Non-antagonists are allowed to use non-lethal force against officers that harm them period.

Ex. of 3) Suppose you slip an officer, then he fires a laser at you. You are allowed to baton the officer into stamcrit, and the officer is not allowed to lethal you as a result. It is important stun weapons retain their status as defensive options, and they cannot be assumed to be murder weapons because of the possibility for unforeseen harm. In this case the officer began with harm, so they are forced to respect your right to defend yourself. If they end up running into this situation and dying in stamcrit because the person who slipped them is really an antag, then that is simply the price of using a laser in response to a slip.

I think this policy would allow for more freedom, not only for crew, but also for sec. Sec can be cheeky and abuse you for trolling them without being bwoinked because they lose admin protection as a result.

4. Officers are allowed to use deadly force against wanted persons if either (a) stun weapons are impractical, or (b) the person can be reasonably assumed to be valid.

Ex. of 4) Suppose you do a little trolling and find yourself a wanted man getting pursued by sec. Thanks to your dexterity and cunning, you are able to escape arrest three times from multiple officers, cuffing them all afterwards multiple times in a row. In this case it would be valid for sec to deem nonlethals impractical and instead opt to shoot you down with an autorifle, regardless of the reason for your wanted status. Or suppose someone wanted for theft manages to robust you and flushes your baton and disabler down disposals. Although you could go back to brig and obtain new weapons or call for backup, this could be deemed impractical and you would be allowed to lethal them and then cuff them instead.

Not sure why I wrote all this but it's an interesting topic.

[Pandarsenic]

I have very mixed feelings about this ban but I really do think there's a degree of "what the fuck did you expect" re: getting attacked back after opening with lasers THEN yelling halt, even against a serial Tideshit assistant. Using that to then justify more lethals that never should've been deployed in the first place... I'm hesitant to say that should be a thing, too.

But the moment you bring the baton out, of course the officer isn't gonna fuck around. Anything that can stamcrit effectively is an effectively lethal weapon if you want it to be, and we all know it.

[Flatulent]

Having a baton doesn't make u valid

yes it does seeing that the only way to acquire batons is either tiding security or tiding security crates

[Screemonster]

I have very mixed feelings about this ban but I really do think there's a degree of "what the fuck did you expect" re: getting attacked back after opening with lasers THEN yelling halt, even against a serial Tideshit assistant. Using that to then justify more lethals that never should've been deployed in the first place... I'm hesitant to say that should be a thing, too.

But the moment you bring the baton out, of course the officer isn't gonna fuck around. Anything that can stamcrit effectively is an effectively lethal weapon if you want it to be, and we all know it.

so really the important factor is whether the assistant pulled the baton before or after the sec officer shot a laser at him

if before, the officer sees wanted assistant had baton, and therefore valids to go to lethals
if after, then the officer didn't know about the baton therefore the baton is not justification for the initial lethal attack regardless of whether subsequent shots were justified when the baton was pulled out in response, just as you can't gun someone down and check their bag for gear to retroactively justify shooting them

edit: reading the appeal again the officer says he fired twice before the assistant pulled a weapon therefore he did not know about the baton at the time of choosing to open fire with lethal force

[Malkraz]

reading the appeal again the officer says he fired twice before the assistant pulled a weapon therefore he did not know about the baton at the time of choosing to open fire with lethal force

Doesn't matter the assistant retaliated

If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator.

[Screemonster]

reading the appeal again the officer says he fired twice before the assistant pulled a weapon therefore he did not know about the baton at the time of choosing to open fire with lethal force

Doesn't matter the assistant retaliated

If you choose to retaliate with violence, you in turn have opened yourself up to violence. If you choose this route, do not expect admins to help you out if you die, even if you were not the original instigator.

the assistant isn't the one appealing a fucking ban here

just because he chose to respond with violence doesn't retroactively justify the thing he's responding to, especially when the thing he's responding to is being shot at with lethals

[Malkraz]

Nobody said anything about "justify" dummy we're not talking about IC
Admin shouldn't have been involved because the Assistant retaliated with violence

[Agux909]

Having a baton doesn't make u valid

yes it does seeing that the only way to acquire batons is either tiding security or tiding security crates

Incorrect, Beepsky could've been smashed by someone else and dropped the unpowered baton, which becomes fair loot in this situation. Only thing remaining for the assistant to do is to have, find or print a cell. This could've happened at any point of the shift. So no, having a baton doesn't inherently make you valid.

Nobody said anything about "justify" dummy we're not talking about IC
Admin shouldn't have been involved because the Assistant retaliated with violence

No, this is victim blaming and killbait validation. You don't fucking initiate a conflict with red lasers multiple times unless the one you're shooting at has been confirmed to be antagonist, period.

Violence or "escalating a conflict" doesn't mean defending yourself because you think you're gonna die at the hands of someone dressed up as sec. Just tell me exactly how much violence did the assistant exactly inflict to the officer vs how much violence the officer inflicted against the assistant.

The stupid post-thinking of "but he had a baton, he used it and you know how that ends" gets completely nullified when the sec officer completely failed to do what they're supposed to do as a sec officer.

Mistakes were made (by the officer), non-antags were round-removed (by the officer). Let the player learn from this mistake and not be so trigger happy in the future. Thanks.

[Pandarsenic]

As I mentioned in thread, Beepsky had actually been chasing the assistant a few minutes earlier. I'm fairrrrly sure the assistant jacked the baton from an officer trying to arrest him earlier - in wanted, he could never have just easily scooped it from the armory with Sergeant Armsky on guard.

[Agux909]

As I mentioned in thread, Beepsky had actually been chasing the assistant a few minutes earlier. I'm fairrrrly sure the assistant jacked the baton from an officer trying to arrest him earlier - in wanted, he could never have just easily scooped it from the armory with Sergeant Armsky on guard.

This is okay. But the officer isn't omniscient and didn't know what the assistant actually did to be set to wanted (correct me if im wrong and the officer actually knew what the assistant did).

So their behavior was still in the wrong. There's multiple things that having been different, would've probably resulted on a strictly IC outcome without admin intervention:

1)The assistant being confirmed to have been self-antagging during the round and this officer knew about it.
2)The assistant stealing the baton from this officer, or the officer having seen them steal it from another officer they managed to knock down
3)The assistant pulling the baton out after the officer shot only disablers at them.

Could list more situations but you should get the idea.

[Malkraz]

words words words if the assistant didn't suck at the game this never would've become a problem
you should be rolebanned for a day every time you die as assistant it's a rat race baby

[Agux909]

Point taken gamer, but we weren't peanuting about sucking at the game or not so nice derail lol.

[sinfulbliss]

ya also that assistant doesn't suck at all he's quite good at the game

[Jonathan Gupta]

ya also that assistant doesn't suck at all he's quite good at the game

not good enough if he died.

[cSeal]

words words words if the assistant didn't suck at the game this never would've become a problem
you should be rolebanned for a day every time you die as assistant it's a rat race baby

bald moron cope

[Malkraz]

play better