Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

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ATHATH
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Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by ATHATH » #605283

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 65#p605159

This is in response to the above post. I'm making a new thread for this instead of another post in the peanut thread that technokek made (https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29360) because this is an important post that I want our headmins to see and technokek's peanut thread derailed into like 5 straight pages of shitposting with obnoxiously large images and quote pyramids after the first 2 pages of actual on-topic discussion. Never change, forumposters, never change.

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After asking around a bit, I've learned that the #events-general channel does exist, but it's a private channel, which explains why I didn't see it and just assumed that #mapping-general covered event-related things as well. Could you please explain to me how I was supposed to post in (or even know about the existence of) a private channel that I didn't have access to?

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The teams ended up beating the shit out of each other with baseball bats and welderbombings, but you're telling me that detonating cyborgs using a ROBOTICS console in the ROBOTICS challenge would have crossed the line?

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I wasn't appealing those notes, I was giving further context to them, since YOU cited them as a source.

"I've sentenced Bob to 10 years of jail time for jaywalker. This imprisonment has been due for a long time, as Bob is a criminal menace to society with a long series of offenses. For example, this newspaper article says that he punched Alice in the face!"
"Actually, that article fails to mention that that punch was thrown during a boxing match between Bob and Alice."
"This isn't the time to discuss whether or not that article was misleading, we're here to determine if Bob should be let out on parole despite being a dirty, no-good facepuncher."

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Both teams had equal access to Twitch chat, though??? How was it giving one team an unfair advantage over the other?

Even if only one team could read Twitch chat for some reason, is shouting advice from the sidelines ("Go for the eyes!") cheating, assuming that the advice you're giving isn't based on information that the competitor you're advising isn't supposed to have access to ("Psst, your opponent's hand is X.")?

And how does this relate to "leaking" code information about the game show in a channel that I believed was currently dedicated towards the behind-the-scenes development of the game show?

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Okay, fuck you, that's a cheap move. You know it, I know it, we all know it. It is becoming very, very hard to continue to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you're not pursuing some sort of personal vendetta against me. I was originally going to just lie down, accept whatever came of this appeal as a judgement of my effect on the community, and move on, but this bullshit has persuaded me to seriously fight this ban.

Regardless of whether or not I am or am not a detriment to this community, this incident is nowhere near a severe enough crime to warrant a permaban, or even a 2 day ban. I might decide to leave even if this appeal is successful, but if I do, I will be leaving on MY terms, not yours. If I truly am the bad actor you claim that I am, I'll inevitably end up doing something that's actually ban-worthy at some point in the future, and you can get me then.

Also, after thinking over some stuff, including past conversations I've had with mappers, I hereby pledge to never codedive an event PR or an event repo ever again. I personally don't consider breaking a map or a feature to be an insult to the work of the person who created it, but I understand and respect that other people may see it differently and I don't want our event coding and mapping teams to continue to feel obligated to tiderproof all of their work because of me or others like me.
Last edited by ATHATH on Thu Jul 01, 2021 4:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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MMMiracles
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MMMiracles » #605512

confused rock wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:i can't believe people who spend months volunteering their time to make something that the community can enjoy seasonally get upset when a select few go out of their way to try and ruin it for others by spoiling surprises

crazy concept
Mfw (my face when) people all go with the narrative of ATH being actively malicious instead of him having just screwed up because that narrative makes them feel better about banning him
mfw we've had to add extra logging measures and remove particular mechanics in past events because of ath and others like him who've done this more than once
Spoiler:
Hints:
------
Submitted by: sandstorm

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then say "your cute" then push enter,wait until they say somthing back if they
don't go for another.
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FloranOtten
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by FloranOtten » #605513

God, this ban really reveals a lot about resident forumposters.

It's just been a constant loop of "But he was fixing exploits after finding them! Look at the fix PRs!" and maintainers going "No he wasn't." It's really telling that the only people defending him are folks who have never had to interact with him from any position of authority, be it as the person who PR'd, the person who mapped it, a maintainer, an admin or a headmin.

Shoutout the the coconut conspiracy by the way. Some of y'all are CONVINCED we keep voting a tyrannical overlord into place, then being deathly scared of criticising him. He's won three elections, lads, if he was ruling adminbus with an iron fist he wouldn't have been so popular.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605514

confused rock wrote: Mfw (my face when) people all go with the narrative of ATH being actively malicious instead of him having just screwed up because that narrative makes them feel better about banning him
Athath wrote: To clarify what happened here:
While I was codediving the non-map file parts of the game show testmerge PR (https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/59825), I noticed that the names of the PR's map files blatantly gave away the names and sequence of the game show's events. I posted about this in the #mapping-general channel on /tg/cord alongside a screenshot that contained 2-3 of the spoiling file names, similar to the one below (I'd post the original, but it looks like it's been deleted):

Dominitius wrote:I was aware of your discord ban and from what I understood it was related to leaking event details intentionally.
Coconutwarrior97 wrote:These are largely cases of you using exploits in-game, which to be fair is not what happened here, still the fact its related to what I'd generally call you using coding knowledge in a generally detrimental way i.e spoiling the event's round order and offering potential exploits in twitch chat while the event is going on.
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Spoiler:
oranges wrote:who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass
cSeal wrote: TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fishimun » #605515

FloranOtten wrote:God, this ban really reveals a lot about certain janitors.

It's just been a constant loop of "He was exploiting bugs in the event! look he has a history of exploits!" and orange man going "No he wasn't." It's really telling that the only people attacking him are purple names who have never had to interact with him from the position of a player, be it as the person who played game, the person who spams forums all day, a redditor, an alex or a manuelmin.

HAIL THE SUPREME LEADER by the way. Some of y'all are CONSPIRACY THEORISTS who keep thinking we keep voting a tyrannical overlord into place, then being deathly scared of praising him. He's won three "elections", lads, if he wasn't ruling adminbus with an iron fist he wouldn't have been so popular.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605516

Coconutwarrior97 wrote: The code is open source, but that doesn't mean you should be spreading information about the specifics of the event order in public channels.
Athath wrote:"public channels" is misleading; that was #mapping-general, which I assumed was a safe place to discuss upcoming events in, as it'd be pretty silly if we forced our mappers to spoiler every single image they posted there that was related to the event they were working on. Again, if you get spoiled because you entered and read messages in a channel labeled "#mapbus" (or whatever it's currently called) the day before a game show that CitrusGender has repeatedly announced (with @everyone pings) that we have had our mapping team greatly contribute to is due to take place, it's your own damn fault. Maybe we should make an #events-general channel or something to avoid this kind of thing.
Coconutwarrior97 wrote:Mapping-general is indeed a public channel, given how anyone can view/post in it. Also there is in fact an events-bus channel where stuff like this sort of thing is discussed in-depth. Hence why discussing event order in mapping-general was considered to be spoiling the event for others. I fail to see how this part is misleading.


I think this and my last post is most of the back and forth regarding only the discord issue so its easier to see both side`s standing on that matter.


I dont think it actually is quite a false narrative I just think the headmins are just trying to prevent Athath from just pleading "oopsie daisy"
Last edited by MooCow12 on Thu Jul 01, 2021 7:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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oranges wrote:who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass
cSeal wrote: TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Stickymayhem » #605517

man this is sad and fucking sucks thanks for the years of hard work pkp and the event people deserve better

jesus i wish there was a way to remove the last vestiges of toxicity from this community there really is just this small core of people that fuck everything up for sheer pleasure. where would they even go these days if they weren't allowed here?

god just be fucking people in a community you literally dont have to be nice or chill or anything you can be a cunt to EVERYONE.

All you have to do ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is not deliberately maximize the amount of frustration and hurt you cause to other people over the internet. That's the fucking pathetically low standard, and we have a vestigial core of absolute cunts that does nothing but fail to meet that.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by terranaut » #605519

who are you to attribute malice to his actions?
[🅲 1] [🆄 1] [🅼 1]

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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Pandarsenic » #605520

Fikou wrote: S: I'm going to challenge the code divers for the next event, because I have something that I haven't even told Arm about that guarantees that they won't be able to dive shit. It'll take at least three hours this time! (laughs)

A: There was some stuff in the original Summer Ball that I thought wouldn't be uncovered for awhile. It ended up being uncovered legitimately, but faster than I thought it'd be. I thought I'd go even further, but I think I've learned that there's no point in really doing that stuff, and the best way to hide a secret is to lock it in a very challenging area.
What if you literally just asked them not to post publicly about it or you invited people to your super secret event bus channel or you made a public event discussion channel so people wouldn't be posting about mapping to? the? mapping? channel?

Yeah, sure, that won't always be enough. I appreciate that some players don't comply with "Could you maybe not," and you can deal with those people when they come when and if you've actually, like... made it a rule/request not to talk about these things, instead of silently expecting people not to look at your Cool Thing You Made? But I feel like you're simultaneously underselling the creativity/curiosity of the very large collective of people you're exposing these things to while overcomplicating what you have to do to prevent most people who notice stuff from asking about it in front of everyone else.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by iwishforducks » #605521

pkp cracked because they saw a furry lol

the only shining light on this miserable forum is when someone that's not a dent head comes in with a funny shitpost, and not the same boring old shit of Rocks Lol have you heard of Rocks? They have prices! What's the price of them? Heh eh oh oho! the constant 5 same people that come in here to whine about how they can't call people slurs and then they just keep piggy backing off of each other until each and every thread is filled with the most stupidest shit of all time makes the forums a miserable experience for everyone. at this point i browse as a form of catharsis to be like "phew, at least i'm not as stupid as these guys!"

anyways this whole ath thing is so fucking stupid like the same aforementioned dent heads keep coming in here being like "But ATH fixes so many bugs!!!" and then the maintainers go "no". there is almost zero discussion to be had here. the Mega Racist Forum Users (MRFUs) just keep saying the same shit over and over again
im gay (and also play the moth “bugger”)

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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Pandarsenic » #605522

I'd like if PKP cleaned house of Gravelposting too but purging that shit from this thread was a service to mankind that I appreciate.
(2:53:35 AM) scaredofshadows: how about head of robutts
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605523

iwishforducks wrote: "But ATH fixes so many bugs!!!" and then the maintainers go "no". there is almost zero discussion to be had here. the Mega Racist Forum Users (MRFUs) just keep saying the same shit over and over again
They said "no" to him reviewing a ton of prs and preventing bugs from being merged in the first place, there actually is evidence that athath has fixed bugs every now and then that still stands from the other thread, thats why it still hasnt been brought up.
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Spoiler:
oranges wrote:who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by FloranOtten » #605524

MooCow12 wrote:
iwishforducks wrote: "But ATH fixes so many bugs!!!" and then the maintainers go "no". there is almost zero discussion to be had here. the Mega Racist Forum Users (MRFUs) just keep saying the same shit over and over again
They said "no" to him reviewing a ton of prs and preventing bugs from being merged in the first place, there actually is evidence that athath has fixed bugs every now and then that still stands from the other thread, thats why it still hasnt been brought up.

case in point
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605526

Pandarenic wrote:So I took a few examples for comparison, going by the admins.txt, written as
[Fix PRs Opened] since [year] -- [per-year average, round any decimal up]
Obviously there's some jank, since I'm not actually counting 2021 as its existing half of a year. If someone would like to adjust to to account for the half-year not counted, or whatever, feel free, you have all the data necessary, but I cbf because I didn't think about it until the end.

Actioninja: 87 since 2019 -- 44
AnturK: 809(!) since 2014 -- 115
Cyberboss: 786(!) since 2016 -- 158
Denton: 128 since 2018 -- 43
Fikou: 117 since 2019 - 59
MrStonedOne: 261 since 2015 -- 53
NinjaNomNom: 148 since 2017 -- 37
Optimumtact (Oranges): 156 since 2015 -- 26
ShizCalev: 842(!) since 2017 -- 211(!?)

And for good measure, iamgoofball: 115 since 2015 -- 20

Incidentally, I'm pretty happy that I went in alphabetical order down the TXT and the ridiculously high numbers from AnturK, Cyberboxx, and ShizCalev came in escalating per-year fix count. With 3 of them, I hesitate to even call them outlier figures.

So our sorted dataset, for per-year fix PRs, is
211
158
115
59
53
[I couldn't find ATHATH's git name at a glance to verify, but allegedly the 45 goes here]
44
43
37
26

Obviously, this doesn't mean sufficiently prolific coders should get to do Whatever They Want - even ShizCalev would cop a ban for doing something fucky enough.

I think this was the final thing that was posted concerning Athath`s contribution? Its only really relevant to people that keep saying Athath doesnt do anything for the codebase though. Its also nice to see a list of what all of these individuals are accomplishing.
List of my favorite TG Staff.
Spoiler:
oranges wrote:who's this moocow guy and why is their head firmly planted up athath's ass
cSeal wrote: TLDR suck my nuts you bald bitch
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Fishimun » #605529

ok, get real.
Athath's code contributions don't matter here. what matters here is should he permabanned from the game&discord for this incident?
He talked about how the event was poorly labelled and anyone who spent a split second looking at the code would automatically know 100% of the event in mapping general. (If he would be banned for this, this should be a discord ban since it's not related at all to the game and you give him a firm slap on the wrist for spoiling the event)
now his history of exploits, they shouldn't really matter here since they are months old notes which are unrelated to what happened here.
All he did in this incident was read code talk on discord, get banned, watch event on twitch , talk about some INTENDED GAME MECHANICS LIKE BRINGING BORGS IN , get perma banned for him talking in twitch. TWITCH is an entirely seperate platform so there shouldn't even be a ban for this.
If you want to ban someone from your game, maybe they should do something bad enough in your game to get permabanned :).
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by HiKewne » #605530

I just don't get what the scandal is all about, sure people like athath will go codediving, and talk about it in mapping general, and even if that's the case I don't really believe it spoils the surprise for like... People who don't even use the discord at all? People who don't go through those channels? He also said he will quit doing so, because, again, this is something he has always done due to him being a code nerd and just being interested in what possibly funny unexpected thing he can pull off.

Again, I'm not trying to imply this as me not giving a damn but it's not like he was writing in all caps in discussion general or in IC OOC every single secret there is, or spamming in every single channel what he knew. From what I get he only directly theorized about it during the twitch chat and... Got banned because of that? Because it was.. Giving some advantage to people who were looking at the twitch chat? Because he has a history of exploits and whatnot? When in reality the only really valid one, that caused a purely negative experience, was just him with the whole server lagging move, and that's it.

I honestly don't believe that moving to a permanent ban is a reasonable move, and much less closing the argument because he already made up his mind.

Like, even if he actually did something bad, he did it in the least mean way possible. Was ATH being retarded? Maybe. Did he mean it with bad intentions? I don't think so, and it didn't show like he tried to cause any real harm, neither to the mappers, to the players, or anyone else.

Hell you all hate on him and while he's just mad that this all came out of nowhere overnight and he had to dig through a 3rd party to know why he was banned in the first place, and when he tried to appeal his own ban he barely managed to get an answer in before the admin closed the thread. I would say he's right to be mad, and even then he's being very civil about this, and he has apologized about what has happened, he has made clear that he doesn't see the situation as the mappers or others do, which would explain why he did it in the first place, but he has also made a good will effort to 1: Not do it again out of respect of their views and 2: apologize due to what happened

I just don't get it

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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Flatulent » #605536

Sigma Rule #31: lock appeal threads without solid justification
power abuse grindset | ban all players
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Ayy Lemoh » #605539

Fikou wrote:long interview
I doubt this is real (a perfect transcript of an interview including someone I don't remember? what?), but if it is then I'm glad one of my original reasons behind leaving seems to have worked (I thought I was more detrimental than anything).
MMMiracles wrote:
mfw we've had to add extra logging measures and remove particular mechanics in past events because of ath and others like him who've done this more than once
Before I left, I've anchored potted plants, nerfed things in the code, constantly bitch about admins spawning stuff to the point that I suggested we just break the code of ingame tools so they don't work, and more. I think I even modified baseball bat spawn log code to work on tools so that if an admin did spawn tools then we would all know just to tell him to fuck off with that immediately. It's an understatement to say we removed particular mechanics when we had to fucking babyify so much of the game due to the inability of people to not destroy everything they can.
Pandarsenic wrote: instead of silently expecting people not to look at your Cool Thing You Made?
That's all that can be done without being ultra stealthy/obscure ("guys, we have to use one-time-only alts and make everything vague") or closed source (lol as if)
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by XivilaiAnaxes » #605543

It isn't a bad ban without floran coming into the peanut to complain "COMMUNITY BAD LET THE JANNIES JANNIE" and making up a strawman.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by chocolate_bickie » #605544

Stickymayhem wrote:man this is sad and fucking sucks thanks for the years of hard work pkp and the event people deserve better

jesus i wish there was a way to remove the last vestiges of toxicity from this community there really is just this small core of people that fuck everything up for sheer pleasure. where would they even go these days if they weren't allowed here?

god just be fucking people in a community you literally dont have to be nice or chill or anything you can be a cunt to EVERYONE.

All you have to do ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is not deliberately maximize the amount of frustration and hurt you cause to other people over the internet. That's the fucking pathetically low standard, and we have a vestigial core of absolute cunts that does nothing but fail to meet that.
Coconut straight up made a bunch of accusations in his last post, then locked the thread before ATH could refute them. That's far more toxic and abusive than ATH's behaviour, as since coco is a headmin, ATH has literally no recourse to this action.

I don't disagree the community has and can be very toxic, but I don't think code diving is the issue to fight this over. The code is open to the public. If this ban is upheld it's effectively a forbidden fruit. Here's some lovely juicy code you can look at, but don't you dare talk about that code or you'll be punished. It's ban bait and pretty shitty tbh.

And you can argue that the point of open code isn't for players to learn about game mechanics but instead to help with debugging. But if that's the case that isn't made clear on github and would imply everytime a player/admin/coder has talked about how weapons/items work in OOC and dchat they have broken the same rules as ATH.

Tldr; Coco's being toxic by posting accusations then locking the appeal. Ban has worrying implications
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Rohen_Tahir » #605547

iwishforducks wrote:e
Are the constant 5 same people that come in here to whine about how they can't call people slurs in the room with us right now?
FloranOtten wrote:God, this ban really reveals a lot about resident forumposters.

It's just been a constant loop of "But he was fixing exploits after finding them! Look at the fix PRs!" and maintainers going "No he wasn't." It's really telling that the only people defending him are folks who have never had to interact with him from any position of authority, be it as the person who PR'd, the person who mapped it, a maintainer, an admin or a headmin.
Read page 1 of the first peanut. Lol.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by zxaber » #605553

FloranOtten wrote:It's really telling that the only people defending him are folks who have never had to interact with him from any position of authority, be it as the person who PR'd, the person who mapped it, a maintainer, an admin or a headmin.
Alright. I've interacted with Ath in both the coding side and also the administration side. I think the permaban was dumb. Ath was asking/suggesting a theoretical strat to other people in a chat dedicated to watching the event. If this strat was actually an exploit, the response should just have been "no, they're not allowd to do that". If strats could be considered against the rules, we'd presumably have admins to tell any competitors reading twitchchat "no, you're not allowed to do that".
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605558

I watched most of the event and it felt like admins had very little control over what was going on, both teams did their best to take advantage of their surroundings and loopholes (like killing the enemy team directly instead of trying to get your singulo to t3 faster) and it seemed like it was intended for that kind of behavior to take place.


Like in actuality all the admins did was determine the winners based on certain factors (Like who`s singulo got to t3 first regardless of which team is dead)


So what exactly would have constituted an "exploit" in that event where players make the most of their environment in order to achieve a goal and admins determine the winner?
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by CitrusGender » #605568

perhaps it's my only serious post on the subject but I've been pretty hands off with this one since I don't particularly know athath's history and I don't particularly care enough

the intention of the event was to keep things extremely chaotic and I was more concerned with getting people to help out rather than keeping it completely secret so this part of the entire thing may have slipped away from me (though, this was somewhat of a direct choice)

I did run a test round on terry but fikou is right, I didn't particularly want anyone to know the order of the events: though it is true we could have not shown it on a public repo (though ultimately I was aware of that and honestly, what can u do: it didn't matter to me that much since I was more caring about making the code accessible to people who want to help: hiding it would impede that)

ultimately I'm more sad that this situation afterwards got more coverage and comments than the actual event itself, if people spent all their time typing about the situation: they could have made lines and lines of code for the event (no matter how good or bad you are at coding) so I just ultimately find it kinda sad that my last event has some controversy.

this stuff is honestly rather separate from eventbus though

I'm probably gonna make a thread about event-bus succession here in a sec so i just wanted to say that here at least: i don't particularly want to answer any questions about the subject but I'll spare a serious post here
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Bawhoppennn » #605569

I think that if ATHATH was a toxic player who deserved to be rule 0ed (I don't know if they are/aren't), it would've been better to lean into that angle than use this existing pretext. I understand the need for rule 0's existence to purge the community of chronically toxic players, but banning someone because they spoiled an event through codediving in an opensource game sets an unwelcome precedent in my eyes, as well as the limiting of their ability to argue during appeal being a pretty concerning thing too.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by HiKewne » #605571

CitrusGender wrote:perhaps it's my only serious post on the subject but I've been pretty hands off with this one since I don't particularly know athath's history and I don't particularly care enough

the intention of the event was to keep things extremely chaotic and I was more concerned with getting people to help out rather than keeping it completely secret so this part of the entire thing may have slipped away from me (though, this was somewhat of a direct choice)

I did run a test round on terry but fikou is right, I didn't particularly want anyone to know the order of the events: though it is true we could have not shown it on a public repo (though ultimately I was aware of that and honestly, what can u do: it didn't matter to me that much since I was more caring about making the code accessible to people who want to help: hiding it would impede that)

ultimately I'm more sad that this situation afterwards got more coverage and comments than the actual event itself, if people spent all their time typing about the situation: they could have made lines and lines of code for the event (no matter how good or bad you are at coding) so I just ultimately find it kinda sad that my last event has some controversy.

this stuff is honestly rather separate from eventbus though

I'm probably gonna make a thread about event-bus succession here in a sec so i just wanted to say that here at least: i don't particularly want to answer any questions about the subject but I'll spare a serious post here
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by CitrusGender » #605573

HiKewne wrote:
CitrusGender wrote:perhaps it's my only serious post on the subject but I've been pretty hands off with this one since I don't particularly know athath's history and I don't particularly care enough

the intention of the event was to keep things extremely chaotic and I was more concerned with getting people to help out rather than keeping it completely secret so this part of the entire thing may have slipped away from me (though, this was somewhat of a direct choice)

I did run a test round on terry but fikou is right, I didn't particularly want anyone to know the order of the events: though it is true we could have not shown it on a public repo (though ultimately I was aware of that and honestly, what can u do: it didn't matter to me that much since I was more caring about making the code accessible to people who want to help: hiding it would impede that)

ultimately I'm more sad that this situation afterwards got more coverage and comments than the actual event itself, if people spent all their time typing about the situation: they could have made lines and lines of code for the event (no matter how good or bad you are at coding) so I just ultimately find it kinda sad that my last event has some controversy.

this stuff is honestly rather separate from eventbus though

I'm probably gonna make a thread about event-bus succession here in a sec so i just wanted to say that here at least: i don't particularly want to answer any questions about the subject but I'll spare a serious post here
in my defense I don't know how to code, I've never known how to code, the best code I ever did was trying to make excel run a couple of formulas and I even failed at that
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by wesoda25 » #605588

MHM ??
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Pandarsenic » #605589

CitrusGender wrote:snip
Ignoring "I can't believe you want people to learn BYOND's nightmare code" jokes, I really do think that most people would be receptive if event-makers just straight-up told them, "Hey, this is meant to be a surprise. The spirit of the event is, fundamentally, about improvising from unexpected scenarios. I'm not going to try to stop you from prepping in advance by looking stuff up because it's not practical, but it'll be really uncool if you do."

But maybe I have rose-tinted glasses.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by terranaut » #605591

Flatulent wrote:Sigma Rule #31: lock appeal threads without solid justification
power abuse grindset | ban all players
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Whoneedspacee » #605593

HiKewne wrote:I just don't get what the scandal is all about, sure people like athath will go codediving, and talk about it in mapping general, and even if that's the case I don't really believe it spoils the surprise for like... People who don't even use the discord at all? People who don't go through those channels? He also said he will quit doing so, because, again, this is something he has always done due to him being a code nerd and just being interested in what possibly funny unexpected thing he can pull off.

Again, I'm not trying to imply this as me not giving a damn but it's not like he was writing in all caps in discussion general or in IC OOC every single secret there is, or spamming in every single channel what he knew. From what I get he only directly theorized about it during the twitch chat and... Got banned because of that? Because it was.. Giving some advantage to people who were looking at the twitch chat? Because he has a history of exploits and whatnot? When in reality the only really valid one, that caused a purely negative experience, was just him with the whole server lagging move, and that's it.

I honestly don't believe that moving to a permanent ban is a reasonable move, and much less closing the argument because he already made up his mind.

Like, even if he actually did something bad, he did it in the least mean way possible. Was ATH being retarded? Maybe. Did he mean it with bad intentions? I don't think so, and it didn't show like he tried to cause any real harm, neither to the mappers, to the players, or anyone else.

Hell you all hate on him and while he's just mad that this all came out of nowhere overnight and he had to dig through a 3rd party to know why he was banned in the first place, and when he tried to appeal his own ban he barely managed to get an answer in before the admin closed the thread. I would say he's right to be mad, and even then he's being very civil about this, and he has apologized about what has happened, he has made clear that he doesn't see the situation as the mappers or others do, which would explain why he did it in the first place, but he has also made a good will effort to 1: Not do it again out of respect of their views and 2: apologize due to what happened

I just don't get it

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Can someone give the counterargument to this I'm pretty interested to see the logic behind it.
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Post by technokek » #605594

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MooCow12 » #605596

Whoneedspacee wrote:
Can someone give the counterargument to this I'm pretty interested to see the logic behind it.

Thats a big problem, this thread isnt getting anywhere until a headmin involved comes to argue their logic and reasoning and we reach conclusions on each and every single point.

The points being
1. Athath`s note history and if each note is relevant or not.
2. If what he said in twitch chat was truely worth upgrade to perma.
3. The discord spoilage (which I think we have come to a conclusion that he most likely made a mistake *but still did something wrong* so just argue how much he should actually be punished for that)
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MMMiracles » #605608

technokek wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:
technokek wrote:
or his maps :^)
talking a lot of shit for someone in tram distance
The tram that I broke at round start?
hopefully as an antag, or else that'd be considered station grief and is a bannable offense, according to more than one game master bucko ;)
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #605610

Im getting bored of this ban all the people i dont like and move on
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Post by technokek » #605627

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MMMiracles » #605629

technokek wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:
technokek wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:
technokek wrote:
or his maps :^)
talking a lot of shit for someone in tram distance
The tram that I broke at round start?
hopefully as an antag, or else that'd be considered station grief and is a bannable offense, according to more than one game master bucko ;)
i have never been bwoinked and it will never happen and also i just wanted to bring the recycler to arrivals for the chef to use it was a accident.
keep bragging about it publicly and I'm sure nothing will come of it
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Hints:
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Post by technokek » #605630

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by technokek » #605632

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Farquaar » #605633

Last I checked, this ban isn’t about Tramstation.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by chocolate_bickie » #605634

Farquaar wrote:Last I checked, this ban isn’t about Tramstation.
This is Off Topic
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MMMiracles » #605635

this is now a tramstation thread please air out any grievances you have with the map

also if you see someone actively griefing the tram (blocking it off, spam calling it, ect) ahelp it, antags are free to do as they please but shitters doing this as non-antags ruin the map for everyone else and general admin consensus is yes this is griefing.
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Hints:
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Submitted by: sandstorm

The best way to get a girl/boy friend is to click on them say "hi" then push enter
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Farquaar » #605636

chocolate_bickie wrote:
Farquaar wrote:Last I checked, this ban isn’t about Tramstation.
This is Off Topic
MrStonedOne wrote:Global Forum Rules:

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Are we just going to pretend that more than half of this thread wasn’t deleted because of off-topic posting?
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Post by technokek » #605641

Last edited by technokek on Sat Aug 21, 2021 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by MMMiracles » #605642

i think the amazing thing is almost every time i've had someone unique tell me about this issue it's always been a terry player

is this like the colonial prison colonies where the british send their offending byond players or something wtf
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Hints:
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Cobby » #605645

Was it in the stream somewhere that you’re not allowed to armchair strategize or what? I don’t get that piece.

Is events bus visible to non eventers? Seems like a case of “admin has access to info the player doesn’t have” but ooc. At the very least that didn’t seem malicious when you could prob point to several other more sketchy actions.

Reruns of “you could have banned this user but you chose a really rusty final nail” is very yikers, especially if looking at it historically it makes them that much harder to ban afterwards (because the ban doesn’t stick)
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by WineAllWine » #605646

technokek wrote:
MMMiracles wrote:this is now a tramstation thread please air out any grievances you have with the map

also if you see someone actively griefing the tram (blocking it off, spam calling it, ect) ahelp it, antags are free to do as they please but shitters doing this as non-antags ruin the map for everyone else and general admin consensus is yes this is griefing.
I seriously wish that was enforced then. Most tram rounds just devolve into shittery doing exactly that.
I am speaking only for terry rounds.
This is because I always play rather than admin when it's tram cause I love it. If I'm adminned and see people fucking with the tram they're definitely getting a bwoink
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by EOBGames » #605647

Cobby wrote:Was it in the stream somewhere that you’re not allowed to armchair strategize or what? I don’t get that piece.

Is events bus visible to non eventers? Seems like a case of “admin has access to info the player doesn’t have” but ooc. At the very least that didn’t seem malicious when you could prob point to several other more sketchy actions.

Reruns of “you could have banned this user but you chose a really rusty final nail” is very yikers, especially if looking at it historically it makes them that much harder to ban afterwards (because the ban doesn’t stick)
Eventsbus isn't visible to people without the appropriate roles, which Athath didn't have at the time.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by CitrusGender » #605648

main thing to say about eventsbus here again is I care more about people helping than I care about secrecy, which run a bit against each other sadly

every event I worry about whether or not I'll get enough people to help so I make it particularly easy to contribute: especially since some people don't know how to set up GIT properly and approving/monitoring people for a secret repo is already adding way too much to my job description
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Agux909 » #605665

Damn. Even the very event organizer didn't/doesn't take issue with the secrecy of the whole thing. And more than players being able to exploit stuff to their advantage they were worried about having enough people contributing and the event as a whole being held together to the end. Fascinating.

I wonder where this whole "ruining the event" idea even came from. As posts keep piling up it looks more and more evidently like something pulled out from an ass to justify a ruling. I mean, for if it wasn't clear enough already from the previous thread, lol.
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by Autismal » #605667

Agux909 wrote:Damn. Even the very event organizer didn't/doesn't take issue with the secrecy of the whole thing. And more than players being able to exploit stuff to their advantage they were worried about having enough people contributing and the event as a whole being held together to the end. Fascinating.

I wonder where this whole "ruining the event" idea even came from. As posts keep piling up it looks more and more evidently like something pulled out from an ass to justify a ruling. I mean, for if it wasn't clear enough already from the previous thread, lol.
almost like coco does have a bias against him despite what a few people are saying
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Re: Game Show Permaban Peanut Thread 2: Electric Boogaloo

Post by CitrusGender » #605670

Agux909 wrote:Damn. Even the very event organizer didn't/doesn't take issue with the secrecy of the whole thing. And more than players being able to exploit stuff to their advantage they were worried about having enough people contributing and the event as a whole being held together to the end. Fascinating.

I wonder where this whole "ruining the event" idea even came from. As posts keep piling up it looks more and more evidently like something pulled out from an ass to justify a ruling. I mean, for if it wasn't clear enough already from the previous thread, lol.
you misunderstand me, it's less about saying "we don't care about secrecy" and it's more "we found it difficult to care about secrecy." I think it's ultimately a concern and I understand the reason for why the ban was done. But I just want people to understand that we made those choices for a reason: whether or not a player did a rule 1 or rule 0 offense is not for me to determine and I don't particularly have an opinion on it.

The only thing I actively care about is eventsbus reputation and defending the choices we made.
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