Yet another Rule 11 peanut

[Vekter]

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29615

NINETEEN

EIGHTY

FOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUURRRRRRRR

[wubli]

source

[Fikou]

2nd page

[Armhulen]

he who posts in appeal but does not think, is lost! he who posts in peanut thread but does not learn is in great danger.

[bastardblaster]

I can truly sleep better now that such a menace to our servers has been dealt with

[Kendrickorium]

this thread just got really good I like this thread

[Kendrickorium]

[youtube]DAN0OCagHzQ[/youtube]

im now watching all these videos

[Screemonster]

I find it hilarious that there are people who are against rule 11 because "words are just words, they don't mean anything" yet also riot if they aren't allowed to say those meaningless words

its almost like their entire personality is built around being edgy and they dont know how to function without gamer words

[terranaut]

For those perplexed that someone would be so hellbent on finding malice in a statement that to a reasonable person would appear innocuous, we must remember Americans have loved zealously enforcing their sense of etiquette and public decency onto other ever since it used to be fashionable amongst them to wear buckles on their hats.

I could point to other examples such as the comstock act, but if you want a more modern example, let us remember that it took until 1999 when it was determined that Americans could handle hearing the word "shit" on network television.

The same Karen sprit that drives the American to snitch on his neighbor for selling water without a license or not keeping their lawn perfectly manicured, also drives him to interpret the word "nigga", with can reasonably be understood as a cultural synonym for the word "guy", "dude" or "bro", as a hateful slur.

TLDR: Serves him right for playing on the amerifat containment server.

PS. IP-lock Terry to European IPs when?

Challenge: Replace [x] in "some [x] killed the HoP" with something with a positive connotation word without making it sound like irony or something a deranged person would say.

a) why would you use a positive connotation word to describe a murderer
b) why do you think "nigga" has a negative connotation? black people regularly call each other nigga. source: i've listened to like 2 rap songs

[Kendrickorium]

I find it hilarious that there are people who are against rule 11 because "words are just words, they don't mean anything" yet also riot if they aren't allowed to say those meaningless words

its almost like their entire personality is built around being edgy and they dont know how to function without gamer words

oh hey its the troll from the secthread I remember you

if anyone here wants some good reading material look through this guy's posts

[Screemonster]

I find it hilarious that there are people who are against rule 11 because "words are just words, they don't mean anything" yet also riot if they aren't allowed to say those meaningless words

its almost like their entire personality is built around being edgy and they dont know how to function without gamer words

oh hey its the troll from the secthread I remember you

if anyone here wants some good reading material look through this guy's posts

seethe

[Malkraz]

Vekter going out of his way to rug sweep the appeal to be the final say on it
You will never be headmin

[Gigapuddi420]

this thread is about as productive as I expected it to be.

Immediately locking all the ongoing appeals because the player had a strop and requested a permaban is bad form. It's likely he's given up entirely but you can't rule out the possibility of trying to clean some of their record before keeping away from the game. Most players who request a ban to get away come back eventually, if I felt I was wrongly banned or had some shit notes I'd still want them looked at. Do they still teach admins it's bad form to speedy lock and move appeals to resolved?

[Malkraz]

appeals like this are for setting precedent more than they are for dealing with the individual case

Do they still teach admins it's bad form to speedy lock and move appeals to resolved?

do u think vekter the compulsive appeals poster cares

[Misdoubtful]

lmaoooooo

[capn_monkeypaw]

Seeing yet another marginal rule 11 ban is almost as tiresome as seeing the Europeans once again posturing as somehow enlightened because they choose to throw around racial slurs like old telegrams say STOP.

Almost.

[Malkraz]

stop making dumb bans then lopl

[cSeal]

Do they still teach admins it's bad form to speedy lock and move appeals to resolved?

Yeah that was undeniably goofy as fuck

[terranaut]

stop making dumb bans then lopl

soooo true

[sinfulbliss]

If you are a white person roleplaying a black character, and someone uses the N-word, it's bigotry, but if you are a black person roleplaying a white character, and someone calls you the N-word, it's not bigotry? Just seems a bit strange since your character's sex/species/race should not carry weight in whether a slur is offensive to you as the player. It's just a note though either way.

source

This but unironically.

[Cobby]

You’ve created an argument for an entire slur ban silly.

Also the statement announcing the rul had provisions like racism/homophobia doesn’t ICly exist just speciesism/Xenophilia although I’m not sure if that’s relayed in the rules so guess can’t blame the guy too much.

Then again it was a note so like lol…

[Malkraz]

"its just a note" until another tardmin uses it to justify a ban

[Armhulen]

"its just a note" until another tardmin uses it to justify a ban

are you saying admins shouldn't be using notes as precedent for increased punishments

[Flatulent]

since notes apparently do not have an expiration date: yes, yes they should be ignored unless you’re a banbot.

also this ban is fucking dumb as balls lmao

[Flatulent]

Also ever notice how it’s always americans or br*ts going overboard with rule 11

[Flatulent]

Or remember how this ban was supposed to be applied only to actual bigotry not you saying nigga 1-2 times per round

[Armhulen]

since notes apparently do not have an expiration date: yes, yes they should be ignored unless you’re a banbot.

also this ban is fucking dumb as balls lmao

what do you mean ol chum i can shed some light on this (the note thing, not the ban discussion)

[Flatulent]

since notes apparently do not have an expiration date: yes, yes they should be ignored unless you’re a banbot.

also this ban is fucking dumb as balls lmao

what do you mean ol chum i can shed some light on this (the note thing, not the ban discussion)

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29360
ban based on expired notes
the most recent i can remember, but there were more

[Armhulen]

since notes apparently do not have an expiration date: yes, yes they should be ignored unless you’re a banbot.

also this ban is fucking dumb as balls lmao

what do you mean ol chum i can shed some light on this (the note thing, not the ban discussion)

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=29360
ban based on expired notes
the most recent i can remember, but there were more

honestly I can't take a ban that wasn't upheld as precedent, people are gonna mess up and all that.

for reference, this is what admins see when they look at your notes (this is my notes page). admins get taught from the beginning that only non fading notes really matter in precedent alongside what the notes were about as well. a great admin notes more so they can ban a lot less, because honestly and in reality banning is not necessary a lot of the time

Spoiler:

[Armhulen]

I can confidently post my notes and nobody can even see that ugly phase i had where i started greytiding unbelievably hard in the form of disassembling entire swaths of the station as a mime named "Destroy Build Destroy"

[Flatulent]

Armhulen, the removal of ban and note had no connection to expired notes.

The problem is that coconut for some reason intentionally decided to look at fading notes in order to ban ATH. It’s always going to be isolated cases, but there doesn’t seem to be a massive disclaimer saying: DON’T USE THIS NOTE.

It’s also that we often can’t appeal a note, since it’s “a waste of time”, as notes arent the main reason admins ban you. While true, a note is always going to have a negative connotation and will always serve as additional reason for an admin to commit to a ban punishment.

They get appealed and overturned. Yes, most of the time. But consider how long it could take for headmins to resolve a ban. Two years ago, it’d be three full weeks as headmins are often not available due to personal problems, work, etc.

[Malkraz]

"its just a note" until another tardmin uses it to justify a ban

are you saying admins shouldn't be using notes as precedent for increased punishments

no "its just a note" is a retarded excuse to justify getting fucked by bad admins because bad notes will be used just as much as justified notes

[Armhulen]

As long as the general consensus is that the faded notes don't matter the bans are always going to get unturned and sure those mistakes will happen but for every huge case about the incorrect escalation of history there are a billion reasonable applications that get no attention because they need none. The huge disclaimer comes from how admins are taught and in the modern adminbus a lot of admins will step in to tell you you're wrong if you are, it's a lot less of a circlejerk than old adminbus and actually back when I joined there was no note fading and nobody really gave a shit either way so the big strives in teaching people to be respectful and codifying recent history is fantastic

I am kinda with you on the response times, we had a different system back then which was "any headmin can just like, deal with it and then if other ones want to overrule they do and then we have the big talk otherwise everyone agrees" and it ended up making our response times incredibly fast THOUGH I also want to say that kor and ausops and citrus and jimm were just really active people too

[Armhulen]

"its just a note" until another tardmin uses it to justify a ban

are you saying admins shouldn't be using notes as precedent for increased punishments

no "its just a note" is a retarded excuse to justify getting fucked by bad admins

I think if I supported the "notes aren't a punishment" statement in the past I don't anymore. I do honestly and earnestly use them as punishments but I do so instead of bans (and bans haves their note anyway) so it is more of a system to let people make mistakes. I also have a personal rule for "how many notes people are expected to accrue in a year" and it's helped in rationalizing mistakes as something that will always happen from admins and players alike. Admin bans get overruled all the time, players having an expectation to get notes yearly is fair in my mind

This post doesn't represent the general consensus of bus, everyone has their own way of finding what's best for the round, I try to teach it to admins I train though like wesoda I felt really got it and it was why he was such a good min

[Malkraz]

im not saying notes shouldn't be used to justify bans thats dumb as hell. im saying the worm-brained dunces saying "w/e lol its just dae note" are fucking retarded because bad notes will be used to justify bans too

[Armhulen]

im not saying notes shouldn't be used to justify bans thats dumb as hell. im saying the worm-brained dunces saying "w/e lol its just dae note" are fucking retarded because bad notes will be used to justify bans too

true

[Armhulen]

but like in a nicer way

[Gigapuddi420]

I treated notes as warning and issued a lot of them. In the other thread I mentioned how ambivalent I am towards this note; I'd personally only bother in situations where bigotry was more apparent but I can't argue it was completely benign. It doesn't seem to be worth the fuss and perpetuates the idea that some admins are trying to remove slurs outright. Rule 11 is a little messy in this regard:

There is no racism in 2561, just species-ism, There is no homophobia, just xenophiliapobia, etc.
Admins are encouraged to use rule 1 to deal with instances where """IC""" bigotry is excessive or designed as a mask for ooc bigotry.

+ the note uses a slur that arguably doesn't exist in 2561
- the 'IC bigotry' here isn't excessive and doesn't obviously look like a mask for ooc bigotry.

The arguments over rule 11 are long and circular at this point, rarely ever getting resolved. I have to wonder if these arguments are just going to further encourage 'fixing' the rules to outright ban slurs to remove the ambiguity.

[Malkraz]

>perpetuates the idea
multiple have outright said they want naughty words gone and a handful of those actively apply punishments in line with that despite the rule's actual intent

[Gigapuddi420]

>meme arrows

I mean you're right, but not all admins I guess.

[Malkraz]

still waiting to see if MSO plans to do anything with the rule after his post in my old peanut

Questions i'll have to mull in my head:
Is nationality even a protected class under rule 11? should it be? Should I even bother to ridgely define that seeing as how I don't want religion to be a protected class but then what you do about the nazis since judism is a religion.
How much should context matter? Is the context of the person (and their history) a part of this? like, If somebody say self identified as a nazi or a racist would that make even soft-a's racist? in the actual example of this note, was mal's history enough?
The primary goal of writing the rule the way I wrote it was to ensure that non-racist people could still interact in this community without having to worry about having what they said taken in bad faith or brought out of context. How does this fair that goal (given thats it's mal).

[Autismal]

still waiting to see if MSO plans to do anything with the rule after his post in my old peanut

Questions i'll have to mull in my head:
Is nationality even a protected class under rule 11? should it be? Should I even bother to ridgely define that seeing as how I don't want religion to be a protected class but then what you do about the nazis since judism is a religion.
How much should context matter? Is the context of the person (and their history) a part of this? like, If somebody say self identified as a nazi or a racist would that make even soft-a's racist? in the actual example of this note, was mal's history enough?
The primary goal of writing the rule the way I wrote it was to ensure that non-racist people could still interact in this community without having to worry about having what they said taken in bad faith or brought out of context. How does this fair that goal (given thats it's mal).

almost like this rule was just a massive fucking mistake and rule 1 solved the entire problem all along.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Just remove all skin tones but white then no one can be racist icly

[Soyoboyo]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

[Fishimun]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

any game is better than ss13 , believe me. it's good to leave the mental asylum before you get influenced

[Super Aggro Crag]

ok retard

[cSeal]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

the REAL final final cope

[Rohen_Tahir]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

lol

[iksyp]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

i'm happy for you or sorry that it happened

[Armhulen]

Damn I missed my own farewell peanut. I totally would have boosted my ego if I saw this earlier.
I actually quit because of a ban regarding killing a captain and only partially because my nigga Knira pushed my buttons. I don't have any stakes left in /tg/ or if I do in the future the progress of time and admin faggotry will probably repulse me again the moment I play, so I'm gonna say my opinion in a dead peanut. If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels. I'll be the first to say I'm an evil whatever whatever bad word man and I will say slurs when I get pissed off because I am on the internet. This isn't even a problem with the rule itself but the fact that tg admins have a persecutionary mentality and will go to the ends of the Earth to ban you because you're a piece of shit that plays the game differently than they like to. Look at CoffeeDragon16. They got so buttblasted by the fact AA leaks existed and that people *gasp* play the game differently than them that they're the sole reason that the new ID card system exists. I'll admit that I got into the habit of sperging when people took me out, but these guys are so 24/7 shit on that it's probably engrained in their psyche. Ever noticed how people who don't play/get their shit pushed in constantly are the ones who laugh when robust players get banned and push for more rules to control player behavior? A mighty big coincidence. Anyways it was fun while it lasted and I hope the based players leave for greener pastures to save their sanity before it's too late.

i'm happy for you or sorry that it happened

haha hey i get that reference

[wesoda25]

If any of you guys go outside and disassociate yourself from /tg/ for ANY appreciable amount of time, you'll realize how fucking insane and juvenile all the admins and players are. These are people in their late 20's sitting around enforcing a list of banned ideas on collections of moving pixels.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

the (virgin) insane and childish mentality of holding people to act slightly responsibly/at least somewhat close to bearable in a social situation
vs
me the chad quits because I can't call someone a racial slur online


I love how everyone who bitches about rules complains about "bro its just a game bro its a collection of pixels" or whatever
but this is a multiplayer roleplaying game, there are people behind those pixels
"it's just my character bro" loses some value when you're actually interacting with other people, and being an insufferable shitter or crying about how you can't call someone the n word doesn't help to make those interpersonal relations any better nor does it really contribute to better arr pee. At least, I don't think so, I've never seen a man properly RP being a crackhead who's bonked out of his mind screaming racial slurs in a way that makes the round more interesting.



I've only ever seen icepacks manage to properly RP the screaming crackhead mindset and he managed to do it without the slurs