Athath gets Permabanned, Redux

[Omega_DarkPotato]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 23&t=29696

Local man gets permabanned for submitting an "exploiting" circuit during a talent show to show it off to people
aren't talent shows meant to show off cool shit ffs

anyway, alphonzo comes in and shoots him twice in the chest and claims the job's done while everyone else looks around like they don't know what the fuck just happened



Editing to provide context for alphonzo's response before peanut gallery does what it does best (not reading the linked thread):
he removed the permaban and edited the note, claiming it was to simply kick him off the server so that he wouldn't show off the exploit or something
once again because of ath's famous 2 year old note about lagging the server for santa claus to come down during christmas

the ban itself is a bit more reasonable at least, and it's gone now anyway
all that's left is the admin complaint part

[wesoda25]

Poor athath, that’s pretty shitty. I agree with the complaint.

[Agux909]

Revert to trialmin tbh.

I'm not sympathetic to Athath though. He doesn't have a good record and keeps insisting with the whole exploit bs. Like... close that chapter of your life and move on dude.

[Anuv]

I'm literally the smartest person alive.

[terranaut]

>alphonzo
lol

[wesoda25]

Also once again agree with sticky, I thought this was rule of fun 100%. Like, it’s a talent show in a videogame, so niche knowledge is a safe expectation, and the dude was going to do a literal disappearing act! I get shutting it down, but honestly the depiction of “showcasing an exploit to dozens of players” or whatever wording people used just takes me aback, it’s totally a misrepresentation.

[Stickymayhem]

Also once again agree with sticky,

i hope you live somewhere with free mental health facilities to get out of this precipitious decline in cognitive function

[Omega_DarkPotato]

I hate it when I agree with sticky it makes me feel really cold and reminds me of when I'm donating blood
I think agreeing with him literally sucks the life out of you

[Swept]

I think Athath has some sort of mental issues.

[Flatulent]

I'm literally the smartest person alive.

except nobody is shitting on ath who did literally nothing wrong this time

[Mothblocks]

Also once again agree with sticky, I thought this was rule of fun 100%. Like, it’s a talent show in a videogame, so niche knowledge is a safe expectation, and the dude was going to do a literal disappearing act! I get shutting it down, but honestly the depiction of “showcasing an exploit to dozens of players” or whatever wording people used just takes me aback, it’s totally a misrepresentation.

I can't agree with you here, so I'm curious as to your thoughts on mine: there's "doing a disappearing act", which would've been fine (though a tad eye-rolly WRT doing it through an exploit), and then there's what ATH was planning on doing which was explaining step by step how to perform the exploit itself--and that appeared to be the end of it.

I think there's plenty of ways ATH could've spun it to be less iffy than it was. Someone suggested that he could've had people come up to fight him on stage, then he uses it to go invisible--that would've been cool.

ATH also had an entire BCI planned that used admin procs to change the participant into himself, as well as speak all the lines. It was super cool, and I honestly think he should've dived into that specifically and just made some wacko circuit that used a bunch of admin procs.

[Armhulen]

alien pointing up at the above post, indicating my agreement and approval. ath almost did a billion cool things but didn't

[Agux909]

Can't believe I agree with the devil who removed my favourite feature from Science.

ATH seems to have a weird obsession with the wrong type of attention and can't help it.

[TheFinalPotato]

He's got the guts to do cool shit, but it's clear the admins are pissed off about exploits. should do cool stuff that isn't exploting code, assuming that's something he's interested in.

I don't want him to be banned, but I don't think that's exactly a common sentiment.

[wesoda25]

Re- blocks and arm

Yeah after seeing the sc arm posted (which I suppose was obtained through a rehearsal?) I take back what I said. I sort of expected ath would do this in like, an actual cool form of presentation, not just literally listing every step.

Still think alphonzo was completely out of line though. Banning someone for something they didn’t do has got to be one if the most BS things I’ve ever seen, especially when he could have just waited for the person who actually knew the situation to come back online.

[sinfulbliss]

Amazing there's still a death warrant out for ATHATH.

His bug was turning invisible for extra long with saturnx and a stasis bed right? What is the harm in showcasing that on the talent show? Especially since it was approved beforehand by the admin. This obsession with keeping bugs secret to the point of considering banning someone for sharing one just sounds insane to me. People exploit bugs all the time to give themselves an advantage in-game. If it's bad enough the bug is then patched. Administrative action never factors in unless the bug actually just breaks the game for everybody (i.e. crashing the server or lagging it).

Something tells me if this was anyone but ATHATH it wouldn't have even been on the table of discussion for a ban.

[HiKewne]

Local autist gets banned from talent show for doing the best presentation

[Danny Delete-O]

Hey i dunno about you but the rules kinda say dont use exploits in em.
Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
Link here for people who dont know the rules i guess. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Main ... thing_else

[sinfulbliss]

Hey i dunno about you but the rules kinda say dont use exploits in em.
Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
Link here for people who dont know the rules i guess. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Main ... thing_else

Back when washing machines changed the identity of items, I would wash sec jumpsuits to make them appear as normal jumpsuits while retaining the armor level.
That's technically a bug. But is it "abuse"?

It seems to me that rule is there to give admins a precedent to ban someone for game-ruining bugs and exploits. Again, showing an invisibility hack with saturnx doesn't seem to be game-ruining, especially since it wouldn't have been used in a game to incur an advantage but in a talent show to show off. If someone then took that bug, and abused it in-game, I guess maybe then you would have a case of "bug abuse," but I'd be curious whether even that situation would be bwoinked for.

[Mothblocks]

People exploit bugs all the time to give themselves an advantage in-game.

???????????

[TheFinalPotato]

Amazing there's still a death warrant out for ATHATH.
...
Something tells me if this was anyone but ATHATH it wouldn't have even been on the table of discussion for a ban.

Yes. No shit. They're more mad at him because he just keeps doing this class of thing, which is why there's admins/me in here saying that he should stop/redirect his goals. Jannies have this association between ath and exploits, and if he keeps doing them he's just fucking fishing for a ban. Like, you get banned for sharing exploits about an event right before it started, get unbanned because jesus it was a perma, and then submit a talent show event that's just an exploit explanation.

Banning him for that it is stupid, especially because he told sacko what it was. It's not his fault at that point, not sacko's either really mind, guy's based. But like, you get why these people even considered it right?

[technokek]

[Malkraz]

I can't stop laughing at Morto saying

I pinged Mothblocks on discord to ask what happened

and then it's just a picture of Morto pinging Mothblocks "what happened?" and nothing else

[Agux909]

Hey i dunno about you but the rules kinda say dont use exploits in em.
Lone antagonists can do whatever they want.
Short of metagaming/comms, bug/exploit abuse, erotic/creepy stuff, OOC in IC or IC in OOC, and spawn-camping arrivals. Team antagonists can do whatever they want as per lone antagonists, as long as it doesn’t harm their team. Non-antagonists can do whatever they want to antagonists as per lone antagonists, but non-antagonists are not allowed to pre-emptively search for, hinder or otherwise seek conflict with antagonists without reasonable prior cause. Non-antags acting like an antag can be treated as an antag.
Link here for people who dont know the rules i guess. https://tgstation13.org/wiki/Rules#Main ... thing_else

lol, a admin specifically told him its fine to do this.

Yah and they're a newish admin. The point is that Athath keeps wanting to do what he knows pisses the admins and coders off, and that's his own decision.

Imagine being suprised when they react to the continued taunting. Athath being permad was stupid but he should just stop sowing what he doesn't want to reap and maybe invest that time and effort in more productive/less drama-stirring stuff instead?

Like, he already got the reputation built so there's nothing to do about it, he can't just make-believe that it's not there.

However, this thread is also about Alphonzo flexing their admin powers to take a decision by themselves when they weren't involved at all with anything from the start, so give your two cents about that specific piece of work too.

[wesoda25]

I aint abused a bug since the donkpocket omnizine exploit :flex: :smug_smirk:

CHAMPS STAY WINNING!!

[wesoda25]

Back when washing machines changed the identity of items, I would wash sec jumpsuits to make them appear as normal jumpsuits while retaining the armor level.

btw you are going to hell for this

[Sacko]

I really really wished athath could have performed. It would have been a show stopping performance. But sadly what's best for the server came ahead of what was best for the talent show. I just was focused on creating the biggest spectacle I could, paying no attention to the consequences. Athath and I are similar in that regard where we just want to do the most amazing shit possible and worry about the mess it will create later. I'm glad he was unbanned that guy is great but also the biggest headache around. Love him to bits. In this specific instance his hands are squeaky clean. Funny.

[Agux909]

You did good Sacko.

[Malkraz]

if ur so embarrassed about exploits just fix them lol

[sinfulbliss]

and then submit a talent show event that's just an exploit explanation.
[...]But like, you get why these people even considered it right?

Bugs bad, ATHATH has bad history with bugs, event with ATHATH showing a bug? *red sirens go off*
Yeah I get that's what happened. But really the discussion should have began and ended at "oh yeah the event runner cleared that." Which, to be fair, it kinda did aside from a misplaced perma.

I dunno I guess I'm just confused on what is and what isn't bannable bug abuse. The bug I mentioned obviously would never be even glanced at by an admin. If someone did that saturnx bug in-game would they get a bwoink? If not, would they get bwoinked for telling their friends about it on Discord or something? I just fail to see the rulebreak that got it considered. It seemed more to me like ATHATH just being near the word "bug" and triggering a lot of people. But it ain't a big deal until it actually affects something negatively.

Wait for the negative impact and then get up in arms... But TBH I doubt there will be a negative impact. ATHATH is more careful than he is given credit for in how he uses his exploit knowledge. If you trace back all his offenses the only one that really had a negative impact was the "holding the server hostage" note from like a year ago or something. His leaking of exploits about Citrus's event on Twitch chat had next to no impact on the event itself aside from the sour taste it left in people's mouths due to all the drama it got on the forums after.

[Pandarsenic]

Due to some key aspects of this complaint taking place in #adminbus, an on-topic channel for discussion of administrative issues, I will post some images from there to explain each point. I will censor the affected player name since this information is not public yet.

ATHATH

I have no horse in the race, but you'd also think the admins would realize that every bad Rule 0 ban attempt on ATHATH makes it harder for any perma, justified or not, to stick.

[Armhulen]

I can't stop laughing at Morto saying

I pinged Mothblocks on discord to ask what happened

and then it's just a picture of Morto pinging Mothblocks "what happened?" and nothing else

actually true that is pretty funny

[Mothblocks]

I aint abused a bug since the donkpocket omnizine exploit :flex: :smug_smirk:

CHAMPS STAY WINNING!!

DAMN its been a while i remember this

I can't stop laughing at Morto saying

I pinged Mothblocks on discord to ask what happened

and then it's just a picture of Morto pinging Mothblocks "what happened?" and nothing else

ahbbhahbahbahbahhahaha i did not realize this until now

[cSeal]

Local autist gets banned from talent show for doing the best presentation

he didnt even preform it, and if he did it wouldve been dry as fuck. youre coping kid!!!!!!!!!!

[MortoSasye]

I can't stop laughing at Morto saying

I pinged Mothblocks on discord to ask what happened

and then it's just a picture of Morto pinging Mothblocks "what happened?" and nothing else

Thank u, I'm at 5 pm every weekend, that will be reads her palm 200 bucks

[Imaginos]

A magician should never reveal their tricks.

[Farquaar]

I thought alphonzo got deadminned ages ago

[Armhulen]

I thought alphonzo got deadminned ages ago

must... resist... replying...

[MortoSasye]

I thought alphonzo got deadminned ages ago

must... resist... replying...

You just did

[Armhulen]

I thought alphonzo got deadminned ages ago

must... resist... replying...

You just did

NOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooooo

[saprasam]

athath banned for being true and honest

[Kryson]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

[Armhulen]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

To be fair, it's in the rules they enforce. So like if you want people to stop being banned for exploiting why don't you start the discussion in policy discussion or become a headmin and remove it yourself

[sinfulbliss]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

To be fair, it's in the rules they enforce. So like if you want people to stop being banned for exploiting why don't you start the discussion in policy discussion or become a headmin and remove it yourself

What exactly is a bannable exploit as opposed to a fair-to-use bug though? When temp pumps were added you could heat plasma indefinitely without making a burn mix - that was patched out soon with a temp limit. But no one was banned for it of course. Where's the line drawn?

[Armhulen]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

To be fair, it's in the rules they enforce. So like if you want people to stop being banned for exploiting why don't you start the discussion in policy discussion or become a headmin and remove it yourself

What exactly is a bannable exploit as opposed to a fair-to-use bug though? When temp pumps were added you could heat plasma indefinitely without making a burn mix - that was patched out soon with a temp limit. But no one was banned for it of course. Where's the line drawn?

if I recall correctly...
officially: when it's a bug that gives you an in game advantage and you're purposefully triggering it to get that advantage

unofficially: you do it once and tell admins, you're fineeee and heck it may make for a funny or interesting round if you can do some swanky shit. but doing the exploit beyond that and someone will probs ban you

[Cobby]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

This is a really warped view because

1) the bug has already been tested at this point if it was repeatable enough to present
2) the bug existing does not benefit from being known by random individuals watching an event vs GitHub (was it even reported)
3) being a good bug tester doesn’t mean you have special exceptions for you surrounding abuse/misuse of bugs

ATH needs to learn if it isn’t obvious by now admins are watching him like a hawk so if he has an interest in trying to break the game then he needs to make sure the extent at which he does so is for the explicit purpose of reporting them (even then I wouldn’t do those activities on the live server he has pretty much lost that privilege). To be frank if that’s the only way he can enjoy the game then I’d recommend he just go somewhere else because administratively his current approach is unwanted here and a consistently misuses bugs for personal enjoyment ban is not going to look good on any flavor of server bar the “our gimmick is we’re not tg” ones.

[Cobby]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

To be fair, it's in the rules they enforce. So like if you want people to stop being banned for exploiting why don't you start the discussion in policy discussion or become a headmin and remove it yourself

What exactly is a bannable exploit as opposed to a fair-to-use bug though? When temp pumps were added you could heat plasma indefinitely without making a burn mix - that was patched out soon with a temp limit. But no one was banned for it of course. Where's the line drawn?

There is no hard line drawn but I am personally of the opinion that if you abuse and can’t link to the issue/convo/any metric that shows you’re aware it’s already reported and can’t make it yourself that’s when it goes to “whoops I found an issue with the game” to being malicious. Emphasis on abuse aka actively using it to get some sort of advantage. This can be anything from maybe a quicker way to do your job to making yourself permanently unable to be seen.

If you know it’s not intended then don’t use it, that’s the fool-proof way to avoid finding yourself in a bug abuse ban.

[Fishimun]

now in an alternate timeline, athath does the act ,everyone is impressed and Alphonzo opens a complaint about Sacko because he allowed athath to do it

[Armhulen]

Jannies are frothing at the mouth to ban people who provide free bug testing of our code.

To be fair, it's in the rules they enforce. So like if you want people to stop being banned for exploiting why don't you start the discussion in policy discussion or become a headmin and remove it yourself

What exactly is a bannable exploit as opposed to a fair-to-use bug though? When temp pumps were added you could heat plasma indefinitely without making a burn mix - that was patched out soon with a temp limit. But no one was banned for it of course. Where's the line drawn?

There is no hard line drawn but I am personally of the opinion that if you abuse and can’t link to the issue/convo/any metric that shows you’re aware it’s already reported and can’t make it yourself that’s when it goes to “whoops I found an issue with the game” to being malicious. Emphasis on abuse aka actively using it to get some sort of advantage. This can be anything from maybe a quicker way to do your job to making yourself permanently unable to be seen.

If you know it’s not intended then don’t use it, that’s the fool-proof way to avoid finding yourself in a bug abuse ban.

Or ahelp if you're unsure

[Malkraz]

all these dumb arguments over exploits would be great if they were about a ban that wasn't completely retarded