Cmo lets suspect die PEANUT

[Fishimun]

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29814

Classic admin moment???

Edit: Manuel is two blocks down

[Kendrickorium]

correct me if im wrong but doesnt being shot by a syringe gun instantly make a guy valid?

the guy was acting like an antag, and got dunked, he was lucky the sec officer left him alive

if this was on manuel yeah give him a warning but this ban stinks hard

[wesoda25]

correct me if im wrong but doesnt being shot by a syringe gun instantly make a guy valid?

the guy was acting like an antag, and got dunked, he was lucky the sec officer left him alive

if this was on manuel yeah give him a warning but this ban stinks hard

I actually believe it was the other way around.

Performing an arrest using antag gear is acting like an antag. If someone walked up to you and hit you with a contractor baton, you would have no way of knowing whether or not they were genuinely security or a contractor masquerading as one.

Even if the officer didn’t intentionally do it, they provoked a (completely understandable) reaction from a player and then killed them for it. Yet another reason why keeping and using antag gear as security is such poor form.

[Super Aggro Crag]

antag gear is for antags

[Cobby]

Act like an antag is role-agnostic.

If you start rushing someone with a contractor baton, It makes it fair game. This can be an assistant trying to be a vigilante, or an actual security officer.

That said, the ban is kinda weird because its not really framed that way so im not sure what was being btfod here. Im guessing its because after acting like an antag he suggests that the person is a baddie and was planning on using their defense against them?

[Misdoubtful]

Act like an antag is role-agnostic.

If you start rushing someone with a contractor baton, It makes it fair game. This can be an assistant trying to be a vigilante, or an actual security officer.

That said, the ban is kinda weird because its not really framed that way so im not sure what was being btfod here. Im guessing its because after acting like an antag he suggests that the person is a baddie and was planning on using their defense against them?

This tho

[Screemonster]

It's not acting like an antag to defend yourself by any means against someone attacking you with antag gear
defending yourself against someone coming at you with antag gear is in fact perfectly normal behaviour for any crewmember

[Super Aggro Crag]

It's not acting like an antag to defend yourself by any means against someone attacking you with antag gear
defending yourself against someone coming at you with antag gear is in fact perfectly normal behaviour for any crewmember

i agree with you screemonster.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

if cmo lets him die whose fault is in that

[Fishimun]

okay this new note is actually fair and correct, admin gets +1 rep

[Tlaltecuhtli]

okay this new note is actually fair and correct, admin gets +1 rep

yeah he just made a retarded ban and replaced it with a retarded note +1 digg gold

[Farquaar]

>Guy acts like antag
>HoS tells CMO “he’s probably a really bad dude”
>CMO lets guy die, because he’s probably a really bad dude
>HoS: *BWOINK*

Since when did having higher standards for security mean that security officers are supposed to be omniscient gods with perfect foresight and control over the station’s crew?

[Agux909]

>Guy acts like antag
>HoS tells CMO “he’s probably a really bad dude”
>CMO lets guy die, because he’s probably a really bad dude
HoS: *BWOINK*

Since when did having higher standards for security mean that security officers are supposed to be omniscient gods with perfect foresight and control over the station’s crew?

Guy didn't act like an antag. Sec officer thought he was the chemist blowing up the station (he wasn't) so he ran up to him with a contractor baton (antag item), and when the chemist defended himself non-lethally against what, from his point of view, could've been a contractor disguised as sec, the officer lethaled him to crit. Officer acted as the antag and should've done the minimun work of checking the chemist and then making sure he was healed after the encounter.

[Istoprocent1]

The thread itself was somewhat hard to follow. What I got out of it was:

1) Chemist antag (got searched for stuff, contractor tablet, admits being contractor - all this before the axe), gg, probably not happy, pressed F1
2) Some lizard MD hanging out in chemistry, gets hit with a contract baton, I would assume they saw the chemist get destroyed by the sec, still decides to fight back, gets destroyed, left for dead in medbay
3) ????
4) Sec guy forgot to search the md, gottem

The whole thing is a mess. Why did secman decide to mess up the MD after they got the chemist who actually was a contractor?

[Kendrickorium]

haha oh fuck me the sec officer went at him with an antag weapon

yeah fuck that guy

[Istoprocent1]

haha oh fuck me the sec officer went at him with an antag weapon

yeah fuck that guy

I wouldn't instantly be like "fuck this guy", rather trying to figure out what went down. We might not know all the details and whatnot nor the thought processes that happened during a high-octane round of spessman with imperfect information. Each party was doing something funky - whether it was the secman batonging the md, the md escalating against security etc.

[wesoda25]

[youtube]ePUHrkBw0zg[/youtube]

[Cobby]

There’s nothing wrong escalating against security when they’re coming at you with antag gear though. There’s not really anything wrong with escalation with sec in general so long as it’s not done against you/the person deserving of an arrest.

I’ll agree with the indirect point that it probably wasn’t done maliciously but just being dumb. That said after he won the fight that should have given some time to “cool off” and think about what he just did and how it got to the point it did.

[Tlaltecuhtli]

There’s nothing wrong escalating against security when they’re coming at you with antag gear though. There’s not really anything wrong with escalation with sec in general so long as it’s not done against you/the person deserving of an arrest.

I’ll agree with the indirect point that it probably wasn’t done maliciously but just being dumb. That said after he won the fight that should have given some time to “cool off” and think about what he just did and how it got to the point it did.

its called ic issue

[XivilaiAnaxes]

The original note is a little vague on who actually had the contractor baton to be fair

[Cobby]

There’s nothing wrong escalating against security when they’re coming at you with antag gear though. There’s not really anything wrong with escalation with sec in general so long as it’s not done against you/the person deserving of an arrest.

I’ll agree with the indirect point that it probably wasn’t done maliciously but just being dumb. That said after he won the fight that should have given some time to “cool off” and think about what he just did and how it got to the point it did.

its called ic issue

repeatedly shit "ic issues" is an ooc one though, and if you cant point to something to say it was repeated then its gonna be "its called banbot" or whatever the latest buzzword is.

The alternative is admins have their little notepad of rounds you were shit in that you cant see until you get banned for the repeated behavior, then you have to defend X amount of situations they pull out in the unban appeal that you were just made aware that was being logged. Compared to notes where you can see it logged as it happens, you know how its worded and how it might be used against you in the future, and you can even appeal the connotations if you felt they were outlandish.

Putting it in notes is literally the best form because the delusional "just let it go away" option doesnt exist, you only get to choose whether the curtain stays up or not. No headmin is going to change that unless they remove the repeatedly being shit rule altogether.

[Flatulent]

banbot

[Zybwivcz]

*does something SEC can kick your ass for*
*gets ass kicked by SEC*
ahelp: help help evil shitsec murdered me, there I was minding my own business....

[Screemonster]

*does something SEC can kick your ass for*
*gets ass kicked by SEC*
ahelp: help help evil shitsec murdered me, there I was minding my own business....

what were they doing that sec could kick their ass for besides "being in their department"

are you suggesting that sec should be allowed to kick someone's ass for resisting when sec decide to kick their ass, in some sort of retroactively-justified asskicking

[sinfulbliss]

There’s nothing wrong escalating against security when they’re coming at you with antag gear though. There’s not really anything wrong with escalation with sec in general so long as it’s not done against you/the person deserving of an arrest.

Wait, what? I might have misread that but are you saying that sec can't escalate against someone deserving of an arrest? If I'm arresting someone, I have reason to believe they are bad. If they escalate against me and start using lethals on me - yes, even if I use a contractor baton to arrest - then that opens them up, in turn, for lethals back.

If you need ways to confirm it's a real security officer, just check for: sec jumpsuit, armor vest/sec clothes (jackboots, secbelt, etc.), PDA+ID, or better yet if you recognize them as playing sec from earlier (often the case). Highly doubt a contractor would have all that on. Not using antag gear as sec is just making yourself easier to kill, and against capable traitors sec can easily start getting eliminated left and right.

[BONERMASTER]

Just for the record, using antag gear for policing work is a big nono, and at minimum it makes you look like a frenetic validhunting non-professional, at worst it gets you banned. There is also hardly any benefit of using a contractor baton over a stunbaton, if you want to have a go at being an officer, just leave this garbage in the evidence closet, and that's one less thing that the admin can pin you down on once the inevitable ban-bait happens.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

[sinfulbliss]

Just for the record, using antag gear for policing work is a big nono, and at minimum it makes you look like a frenetic validhunting non-professional, at worst it gets you banned. There is also hardly any benefit of using a contractor baton over a stunbaton, if you want to have a go at being an officer, just leave this garbage in the evidence closet, and that's one less thing that the admin can pin you down on once the inevitable ban-bait happens.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

Definitely not a bannable offense on LRP my friend. Like, VERY far from bannable. A contractor baton insta-knockdowns as well as having infinite charges and does 20 extra stam damage and stunning borgs. But that's a bad example maybe... There's better stuff like the chameleon projector, no-slips, makarov, etc., which are very useful.

[Rohen_Tahir]

If you need ways to confirm it's a real security officer, just check for: sec jumpsuit, armor vest/sec clothes (jackboots, secbelt, etc.), PDA+ID, or better yet if you recognize them as playing sec from earlier (often the case). Highly doubt a contractor would have all that on.

Yes antags never kill sec and loot the body.

[BONERMASTER]

To be fair, I rarely see antags impersonating security, any officer that bumps into you will see your missing mindshield and go after you, and without cloning you have virtually no valid excuse to talk your way out of it. Plus, they sometimes wear stuff that is heaps above standard issue security gear anyways.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

[Agux909]

To be fair, I rarely see antags impersonating security, any officer that bumps into you will see your missing mindshield and go after you, and without cloning you have virtually no valid excuse to talk your way out of it. Plus, they sometimes wear stuff that is heaps above standard issue security gear anyways.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

(whispering) What are you doing? You don't switch your argument like that, you're gonna throw the case out the window!

[BONERMASTER]

To be fair, I rarely see antags impersonating security, any officer that bumps into you will see your missing mindshield and go after you, and without cloning you have virtually no valid excuse to talk your way out of it. Plus, they sometimes wear stuff that is heaps above standard issue security gear anyways.


With warm regards
-BONERMASTER

(whispering) What are you doing? You don't switch your argument like that, you're gonna throw the case out the window!

(whispering) I'm the joker, baby

[sinfulbliss]

If you need ways to confirm it's a real security officer, just check for: sec jumpsuit, armor vest/sec clothes (jackboots, secbelt, etc.), PDA+ID, or better yet if you recognize them as playing sec from earlier (often the case). Highly doubt a contractor would have all that on.

Yes antags never kill sec and loot the body.

Antags rarely change out their entire uniform to perfectly replicate a seccie. They maybe take the ID, baton, and disabler.

[wesoda25]

Antags rarely change out their entire uniform to perfectly replicate a seccie. They maybe take the ID, baton, and disabler.

Moot point when you’re getting attacked by someone and dont have time to verify. Dont do this as sec if they’re not already valid (and if you do you better be committed to a non-harmful takedown)

[sinfulbliss]

Antags rarely change out their entire uniform to perfectly replicate a seccie. They maybe take the ID, baton, and disabler.

Moot point when you’re getting attacked by someone and dont have time to verify. Dont do this as sec if they’re not already valid (and if you do you better be committed to a non-harmful takedown)

It’s easy to verify, you just glance at them. It’s very clear whether someone is an actual officer or not, even without sechuds. They have a very distinctive outfit.

The interesting case is say a seccie has a makarov in suit storage and goes to arrest someone with a baton or even ebow. Then the person retaliates violently (or with a baton) because they thought it was an antag. Technically now if it’s a battle of life or death the seccie can use lethals I imagine, and then the player gets screwed. Although this is extremely rare because if the goal is to arrest them then even if they use lethals you will be best off with stun weapons.

[Omega_DarkPotato]

>antags rarely change out of their entire outfit to impersonate sec

oh how I adore the chameleon kit
I don't change my outfit, my outfit changes itself

[XivilaiAnaxes]

Antags rarely change out their entire uniform to perfectly replicate a seccie. They maybe take the ID, baton, and disabler.

lol taking a red jumpsuit and the body armour is hardly a stretch. Not counting chameleon kit - and if you want to play stealthy it costs like what 2 TC to buy?

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Antags rarely change out their entire uniform to perfectly replicate a seccie. They maybe take the ID, baton, and disabler.

lol taking a red jumpsuit and the body armour is hardly a stretch. Not counting chameleon kit - and if you want to play stealthy it costs like what 2 TC to buy?

2tc for the cham kit, 2tc for an agent id, another 4tc for the rad microlaser + enough cash for ampu shears roundstart

8tc and I can assassinate anyone I want in maint after I tell them that I've gotta take em to brig as we've heard reports of cult activity and they need to be mindshielded/another member of their dept is wanted for heretical activity and we need them for questioning.
It's how I used to roll back when I had antag on. I got called a dirty rat boy for it too

[Screemonster]

also why is "you can examine them to determine that they're not sec" even an issue

if you're minding your own business in your own department and some redshirt comes in and starts fucking whaling on you out of nowhere then it doesn't matter if they're a "real" sec officer or not, security's protection from getting their asses kicked only extends to actual arrests, not just beating the shit out of whoever crosses their path and the MD that got beaten into crit wasn't even the antag as the officer had already caught the antag