1984 strikes again peanut

[Fishimun]

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ead#unread

trolled

[Flatulent]

none of you are even black but this is one of the most active peanut threads in a while with lots of opinions, why does anyone here care

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

[NoxVS]

Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

Ironic, coming from someone complaining he is being oppressed because he isn't allowed to insult people with the n-word

[Flatulent]

Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

Ironic, coming from someone complaining he is being oppressed because he isn't allowed to insult people with the n-word

I haven’t mentioned that I am being oppressed once.

[Cobby]

The rules haven't changed, you can say nigger as long as your usage of it isn't bigoted.

Calling somebody a nigger is almost always a bigoted use.

Conveying this to admins without opening the floodgates on bans for "nigga plz" has been the challenging part, and up until recently the rule has been under enforced by most admins because my messaging to them erred on the side of caution. (sticky is not most admins)

Understand that there is a downside to my "No thought crimes" guideline to bigotry enforcement, ones intention to be bigoted doesn't come into the discussion except as a consideration for how severe or light the corrective action should be.

Exhibit B on why I push back hard on slur banning. Even the man who wrote the rule has some distinction between the n word with er and the n word with a, but only if it is proceeded by "plz".

[Not-Dorsidarf]

holy shit it's been what, 2 years? but MSO has finally bothered to tell us what his intent was when implementing rule 11 so we can stop knifing each other in arguments over it.

[FantasticFwoosh]

If you have a problem with people slurring your character, just change your character's appearance. Case in point, suntan lotion, because nothing sticks when you've created the New Jersey Ethnostate of Chads and Stacies.

The most proficient bigots on server are caucasian catgirl and catboy rigid models of beauty.

[Agux909]

Yo flatulent I refuse to believe you're this square to not understand what people is trying to convey to you here.

You slipped the tongue and used the slur nigger with a negative connotation, against someone, when you were mad. You say you had no intention to demean anyone's ethnicity? That you did it more out of habit and culture? If that's really the case then fine, you aren't a bigot.

However, slip-up or not, cultural habit or not, common internet slang or not, you weaponized that specific slur at the time to insult someone, and that's a bigoted action.
Are you one? Admins can't read minds so they can't know. They work with what they have on the table, plus what you tell them. And the table showed bigotry, which is what rule 11 is trying to keep out from this community.

Please tell me you understand this fact. You understand that you weren't noted just for "saying a slur", right? I just used the same slur up there. That up there is "just saying a slur".

Now imagine people could get banned for using a slur as I did up there. Ridiculous right? That's why implementing a list of banned slurs is also not a good idea.

I understand what they’re trying to say, but I disagree with their accessment. I used the word because that’s what I happened to want to use at the time and I don’t know why I should give too much thought to my choice of slurs besides pissy nannies getting upset over it. I don’t weaponise shit, I just type what I feel like typing and roll with it.
The connection between using the slur in a negative connotation to insult people and using the slur in a negative connotation to compare the person to an unpriveleged group that may be deemed inferior by some and insult the person this way isn’t made by me. It’s made by you. And I refuse to understand why exactly that should be my problem.
Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

I get what you mean about others not being able to "make the distinction". But again, this is something you yourself are accustomed to, and can separate and know in your head. The impression from outside is quite different, and expecting admins to make exceptions and apply different rulings depending on what's on your mind is ridiculous.

[Flatulent]

im expecting admins to not make shit notes/bans but that’s too much to ask for, is it?

[Agux909]

As much to ask for as to let go of certain words when you got nothing good to deliver with them (:

[cSeal]

none of you are even black but this is one of the most active peanut threads in a while with lots of opinions, why does anyone here care

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

I find the excessive and casual use of nigger on our servers in general and your specific use of it to be offensive and cringe yes
and I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion for literally anyone to hold, black or not

[cSeal]

If you have a problem with people slurring your character, just change your character's appearance..

Unironically the reason I stopped playing human, It somehow felt better to change to a non human than make my static white to avoid being called a nigger

Spoiler:

Every time you call someone a slur you are directly responsible for the creation of another hugboxing metafriending pink haired/scaled/winged non human manuelmin
The single most compelling reason to ban slurs....

[Flatulent]

none of you are even black but this is one of the most active peanut threads in a while with lots of opinions, why does anyone here care

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

I find the excessive and casual use of nigger on our servers in general and your specific use of it to be offensive and cringe yes
and I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion for literally anyone to hold, black or not

and why exactly me saying the n word on an european server where you don’t see it and i don’t have any encounters with you cause me to get noted if you aren’t there to voice any complaints about it and nobody present gets offended?

[FantasticFwoosh]

There you have it folks, race is the problem. Humanity least in the context of the game should be ragdoll simpsons yellow as it was meant to be.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Posting a Saiga antelope as a "subtle" attempt at an antisemitic jab doesn't make you look any less stupid. I'm not Jewish in any way.

lol

[Super Aggro Crag]

as someone who has been banned for saying the gamer word i say this with the unvarnished factualism of call of duty modern warfare 2 voice chat

you are all gay retarded favela monkeys and you need to use riot shields because your arms are trembling too hard due to the exhaustion of all the dick yanking you have been doing and you can't aim

[Flatulent]

forum posting will never translate the feeling of old voice chat lobbies when you couldn’t understand what the fuck is anyone saying because everyone is yelling simultaneously with a 5$ chinese mic

[Super Aggro Crag]

forum posting will never translate the feeling of old voice chat lobbies when you couldn’t understand what the fuck is anyone saying because everyone is yelling simultaneously with a 5$ chinese mic

))=3

[Cobby]

If you have a problem with people slurring your character, just change your character's appearance..

Unironically the reason I stopped playing human, It somehow felt better to change to a non human than make my static white to avoid being called a nigger

Spoiler:

Every time you call someone a slur you are directly responsible for the creation of another hugboxing metafriending pink haired/scaled/winged non human manuelmin
The single most compelling reason to ban slurs....

Its sad that black characters in ss13 are automatically viewed as tyrone mcwatermelon types who have a pension for kleptomania, watermelons, and hatred towards security, so much that when actual black people play the game they either play as white people or non-humans.

If you played as a black human you are literally immune to being called the n word, even for people who dont care for the slur ban (as in all admins will vehemently btfo people who call you such).

[Omega_DarkPotato]

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

I find the excessive and casual use of nigger on our servers in general and your specific use of it to be offensive and cringe yes
and I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion for literally anyone to hold, black or not

and why exactly me saying the n word on an european server where you don’t see it and i don’t have any encounters with you cause me to get noted if you aren’t there to voice any complaints about it and nobody present gets offended?

"oh shit hes black ok hold on his opinion has to matter i guess"
"what you're doing is cringe"
"UHHHHH IT NO LONGER MATTERS"

[Flatulent]

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

I find the excessive and casual use of nigger on our servers in general and your specific use of it to be offensive and cringe yes
and I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion for literally anyone to hold, black or not

and why exactly me saying the n word on an european server where you don’t see it and i don’t have any encounters with you cause me to get noted if you aren’t there to voice any complaints about it and nobody present gets offended?

"oh shit hes black ok hold on his opinion has to matter i guess"
"what you're doing is cringe"
"UHHHHH IT NO LONGER MATTERS"

if i didn’t care for his opinion, i wouldn’t ask shit from him as even talking to jannies makes me nauseous

[Fishimun]

What if i'm singing along to my favourite rap music???

[Super Aggro Crag]

If you have a problem with people slurring your character, just change your character's appearance..

Unironically the reason I stopped playing human, It somehow felt better to change to a non human than make my static white to avoid being called a nigger

Spoiler:

Every time you call someone a slur you are directly responsible for the creation of another hugboxing metafriending pink haired/scaled/winged non human manuelmin
The single most compelling reason to ban slurs....

Its sad that black characters in ss13 are automatically viewed as tyrone mcwatermelon types who have a pension for kleptomania, watermelons, and hatred towards security, so much that when actual black people play the game they either play as white people or non-humans.

If you played as a black human you are literally immune to being called the n word, even for people who dont care for the slur ban (as in all admins will vehemently btfo people who call you such).

on manuel i have seen people play as these aforementioned "tyrone mcwatermelon" types and they're usually shitters who try to robust people and fail horribly over minor inconveniences

i did see a guy playing an arab once who was really good though he referred to everyone as "my friend" just like real arab guys do and he was a real good cargo tech real friendly and quick with orders and deliveries what a lad

[cSeal]

none of you are even black but this is one of the most active peanut threads in a while with lots of opinions, why does anyone here care

Im black does that mean my opinion matters now lol

In this case you do have a voice in whether usage of said slur offends you or not.

I find the excessive and casual use of nigger on our servers in general and your specific use of it to be offensive and cringe yes
and I don't think that's an unreasonable opinion for literally anyone to hold, black or not

and why exactly me saying the n word on an european server where you don’t see it and i don’t have any encounters with you cause me to get noted if you aren’t there to voice any complaints about it and nobody present gets offended?

If you're talking about this note specifically, I think there's a compelling case to be made that this note should be removed, as clarification for HOW to enforce rule 11 literally only came about because of this incident and only became known outside of ye old INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower when you made your appeal

But if you're talking in a more broad sense;
would you rather that you're allowed to say it until someone DOES take offense and then suddenly you're btfo'd? do admins need to start getting out the skin tone chart to determine if someone is allowed to be offended when someone calls them a nigger or something? How do you even know no black person playing at the time was offended? even admins can't know that, because there's a stigma against ahelping in general- its very possible that someone was annoyed or offended by what you said but they just didnt bring it up to admins. when I started out I didnt ahelp any of the times I was called a nigger, because I felt like ahelping was for bitches. you could easily argue it was my fault for being stubborn and not ahelping, but should I have had to put up with it in the first place? its much easier to create a blanket rule of "dont do this lads" then to sus out each time the validity of each scenario and even then only if someone ahelps it first
Idk if anything I said even made sense, honestly im zogged out of my mind because of a lack of sleep so sorry if anything I said was confusing

[NoxVS]

Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

Ironic, coming from someone complaining he is being oppressed because he isn't allowed to insult people with the n-word

I haven’t mentioned that I am being oppressed once.

I’m glad we agree, so you have no problem with being told not to say the n-word then right?

[Farquaar]

I’m glad we agree, so you have no problem with being told not to say the n-word then right?

Nox I like you but stop being so willfully obtuse.

[Flatulent]

Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

Ironic, coming from someone complaining he is being oppressed because he isn't allowed to insult people with the n-word

I haven’t mentioned that I am being oppressed once.

I’m glad we agree, so you have no problem with being told not to say the n-word then right?

Are you seriously that stupid or just pretending? All I’m doing is calling you a person of questionable intellectual capability over your monumentally shit takes. I will continue saying the n-word even after this appeal, as the word isn’t actually banned much to your dismay. But instead of using it to insult people, I will now have to figure out much more elaborate insults that don’t include any oppressed groups or peoples (or were historically used to discribe them), but hand tailor them against the person I am specifically insulting. You must be honoured by the amount of effort I will have to apply just to get my point(the point is you being a “dumb faggot” as I would say before the rule 11 change) across to you or any other person of questionable comprehension skills.

[cSeal]

also just now realizing my post could be taken the wrong way; I dont think Iain is an idiot or something for placing the note. they asked for advice on how to apply rule 11, mso himself gave it to them, and they applied it accordingly. I could just see how from a player POV, the initial wording of the rule, past rulings on it, and past inaction about situations like this could make it seem incredibly lame that only now things like this are being actioned on, especially as the first person whos really getting bonked for this without a policy thread or MOTD or anything more public facing being made first yknow

In short,
love Iain, love rule 11, hate the casual constant use of nigger on our servers, dislike this note being applied but can understand the reason why it was and im not the banning admin so no one should put that much weight into my words- this is up to Iain and the headmins now

[Flatulent]

If you're talking about this note specifically, I think there's a compelling case to be made that this note should be removed, as clarification for HOW to enforce rule 11 literally only came about because of this incident and only became known outside of ye old INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower when you made your appeal

I am glad we agree on this, if nothing else.

But if you're talking in a more broad sense;
would you rather that you're allowed to say it until someone DOES take offense and then suddenly you're btfo'd?

In this case it’s not a blanket ban and I get to choose when to use it as an insult. If the person is rightfully offended over this, they’re free to ahelp me as it happens now. But jannies taking the initiative into their own hands and going full thoughtcrime secret police? Spare me of that shit.

do admins need to start getting out the skin tone chart to determine if someone is allowed to be offended when someone calls them a nigger or something? How do you even know no black person playing at the time was offended? even admins can't know that, because there's a stigma against ahelping in general- its very possible that someone was annoyed or offended by what you said but they just didnt bring it up to admins.

If there’s a stigma against ahelping when rule breaks happen, I’d say that is a higher priority for the admin team than discussing for years when saying the n-word is acceptable or not.

its much easier to create a blanket rule of "dont do this lads" then to sus out each time the validity of each scenario and even then only if someone ahelps it first

I have always thought that no victim means no crime. Who are the rules created for? The players or the admins? This is the question you should ask for yourself.
Should the rule be easier and more reasonable to follow for players or should it be easier to enforce for admins. Because we all know what is easier to enforce. A system that autobans you for saying slurs, a word filter.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Jannie Iwata, trying to hit me with allegations of slurring, while i, Sigma Reggie counteract that i am every race at all times, because there are no intrinsic mechanics for how much *melanin (or other pigmentation) someone has, its as pointless as wearing a paid consumeristic fortnite skin. My ethnicity can be Rick from rick and morty and it makes no difference when i do the gangnam style all over the MLK & segregation museum.

[Rohen_Tahir]

Perhaps one day we could range ban americans and british from Terry so I won’t have to deal with internet warriors looking for oppression where there is none.

Ironic, coming from someone complaining he is being oppressed because he isn't allowed to insult people with the n-word

I haven’t mentioned that I am being oppressed once.

I’m glad we agree, so you have no problem with being told not to say the n-word then right?

[youtube]XpJEg6MTPzc[/youtube]

[Super Aggro Crag]

maybe we should be friends instead of foes

[Flatulent]

Have you ever met anyone who got rich betting on the Arena? Didn't think so.

[oranges]

weren't you "leaving"

I dont' understand why you stay, you're diametrically opposed to the direction the entire community leadership is taking

You wont find it very welcoming

[Flatulent]

i am after this appeal is resolved

[Super Aggro Crag]

you said on page 1 you were going to stop posting in your peanut

[Flatulent]

please quote it
i said this is the last time im posting here meaning after this is over im requesting a permaban

[Super Aggro Crag]

its probably the last time im posting here anyway let me be

dont say stuff you dont intend to hold to because people will make you hold to it

[Flatulent]

listen retard its fresh drama i can’t pass up on that

[cSeal]

In this case it’s not a blanket ban and I get to choose when to use it as an insult. If the person is rightfully offended over this, they’re free to ahelp me as it happens now. But jannies taking the initiative into their own hands and going full thoughtcrime secret police? Spare me of that shit.

I'd prefer no one gets banned or noted for something that's avoidable- we should not have a system where something is okay until someone decides they take issue with it and can then get you fucking bonked, which is why I think trying to shepherd the server towards simply not saying this shit as an insult is the best move. YOU might be okay with getting away with something until suddenly, oh you said it to the wrong guy and got fucked for it, but I don't think most people would be fine with that

If there’s a stigma against ahelping when rule breaks happen, I’d say that is a higher priority for the admin team than discussing for years when saying the n-word is acceptable or not.

We can't really do much about that- the only tools we have at our disposal to shape player culture are to act as examples and to create and enforce rules. We don't have public notes, so we can't really do anything in that regard besides telling people to ahelps and thats ineffective
ruleswise... what really can we do? ban people who don't ahelp shit that happens to them? fuck man, I got a quota to fill why not

I have always thought that no victim means no crime.

"No one made a stink about it" doesn't always mean no one was bothered by it, which is another reason why I'm in favor of being proactive.

Should the rule be easier and more reasonable to follow for players or should it be easier to enforce for admins.

Im having a hard time understanding what your point here is- are you saying that the old rule 11 was better, that no rule 11 was better, or that an alternate route should've been taken?

No rule 11 results in a shitty community (in my opinion)
Rule 11 as it existed before was nebulous and caused a shit ton of confusion, which resulted in it being extremely hard to follow or enforce; people were getting shat on left and right and no one knew what the fuck was okay and what wasnt
Rule 11 as it is now, its easy as fuck to follow- just don't call other people slurs, and dont talk about how much you want to kill black people or something
I'm sure maybe there was some better path to take with this but honestly I cant think of one

[Super Aggro Crag]

listen retard its fresh drama i can’t pass up on that

im actually retarded so this is a rule 12 violation

[Flatulent]

what i meant is that this poorly worded rule situation will definetly repeat at some point and old rule 11 gave de facto carte blanche for admins to enforce as they please with only headmins being able to rule on appeals. this made admins’ life easier at the expense of everyone else except in the very rare cases when the banning admin got a slap on the face for being a bitch
taking months and years to clarify on basic things in respect to new rule changes shouldn’t happen and if mso wants a rule perhaps its best he discusses how to word it better with headmins first.

[Super Aggro Crag]

rule 1 is dont be a dick rule 11 is a superfluous rule but you're also a cock

[oranges]

normal people look at rule 11 and say okay, maybe i'll stick to saying retard on 4chan and stick to ss13 here, and maybe bust it out in ooc in obviously joke contexts.

you look at it and want to know how many n words a day you are allowed and exactly who you can direct them at

What the hell is your problem?

[wesoda25]

please quote it
i said this is the last time im posting here meaning after this is over im requesting a permaban

So you would really rather leave than just stop saying a few words? Like is censorship that important to you or do you just not enjoy the community enough anymore and it’s the last straw. What initially brought you here in the first place?

[Omni]

Stick it up to jannies, claim that you identify as black person. They can't disprove it, because any attempt at that is, by default, bigoted, they can't attempt to gaslight minorty. It's not cultural appropriation either since that's the case when you employ bits of others' culture while identifying as white. If anything Chassids on social media have repeatedly proven that you can switch that identification at will and it can't be questioned either. Depriving you of your nword privilledges as black person would be actual cultural opression.
If they resort to disregarding your identity mumbo jumbo (like entire world should have longest time ago), you can more than likely retort by rallying up peop- no, that's wrong, denizens of resetera or some other capital S shithole, and then it's free game.

[Anuv]

Stick it up to jannies, claim that you identify as black person. They can't disprove it, because any attempt at that is, by default, bigoted, they can't attempt to gaslight minorty. It's not cultural appropriation either since that's the case when you employ bits of others' culture while identifying as white. If anything Chassids on social media have repeatedly proven that you can switch that identification at will and it can't be questioned either. Depriving you of your nword privilledges as black person would be actual cultural opression.
If they resort to disregarding your identity mumbo jumbo (like entire world should have longest time ago), you can more than likely retort by rallying up peop- no, that's wrong, denizens of resetera or some other capital S shithole, and then it's free game.

Black people don't use the n-word with a hard R as a pejorative when trying to insult random people but thanks for trying. Please take your /pol/-tier stupidity elsewhere.

[Super Aggro Crag]

you shouldn't make generalizations about black people anuv thats racist

[NoxVS]

what i meant is that this poorly worded rule situation will definetly repeat at some point and old rule 11 gave de facto carte blanche for admins to enforce as they please with only headmins being able to rule on appeals. this made admins’ life easier at the expense of everyone else except in the very rare cases when the banning admin got a slap on the face for being a bitch
taking months and years to clarify on basic things in respect to new rule changes shouldn’t happen and if mso wants a rule perhaps its best he discusses how to word it better with headmins first.

how integral to your personality is saying the n-word that you have to leave the server rather than just not say it

[Omni]

Black people don't use the n-word with a hard R as a pejorative when trying to insult random people but thanks for trying. Please take your /pol/-tier stupidity elsewhere.

The closest example that comes to my tired mind, from the media.
[youtube]QHCSL-AKd3w[/youtube]

[IkeTG]

if you come up with creative and never before seen pejoratives instead of slurs, not only do you not get banned, you actually become seen as quirky and irreplaceable
just goes to show how far effort and discipline can take you

[Gigapuddi420]

I'm just here to beckon page four and contribute:

lol