/tg/Station 13

God it sucks really bad. Didn't they already simplify the game enough? Who are we even marketing the game to anymore?
All the species features are either poorly designed or poorly implemented.

And oh, we better gut all mentions of species of humanoids being "evil" wouldn't want people to think we are racist towards fucking minotaurs.

There is nothing really new in this book aside for a few new playable and poorly designed humanoids, as well as a bunch of changes to monsters that make them simpler meatbags instead of interesting creatures with options that interface with the system the same way the players do. WOULDN'T WANT ANY TACTICS IN OUR COMBAT NOW WOULD WE?

Seriously every mention of "monstrous races" from MTF and VGM has been replace with "fantastical races."
Can't have sadisticly driven orcs anymore because the 2017 movie Bright staring Will Smith used orcs as an allegory for ethnic minorities in the US.

"Oh but I don't want to play an evil character"

Well then don't play an orc, or make up a reason why your orc in particular isn't the murder-y and pillage-y type. REJECTS ARE FUN CHARACTERS.

Where as other books gave us paragraphs on a species lore and traditions. Now all we get it height, weight, languages spoken, and life span.
Its not like they are even trying to gut all lore to make a more "setting independent" sourcebook, it's just specifically any lore that paints humanoid species in a negative life because Wizards of the Coast has lost their damn spine ever since they had a twitter presence.

5e is a platform to do whatever you want with and the old books didn't just disappear off the face of the planet

not a big deal do what you want

As an example of this bullshit

The original description:

Lizardfolk possess an alien and inscrutable mindset, their desires and thoughts driven by a different set of basic principles than those of warm-blooded creatures. Their dismal swamp homes might lie hundreds of miles from the nearest human settlement, but the gap between their way of thinking and that of the smooth-skins is far greater.

New description:

Gifted by the gods with remarkable
physical defenses and a mystical connection to the natural world, lizardfolk can survive with just their wits in situations that would be deadly for other folk. Because of that fact, many lizardfolk myths state that their people were placed by the gods in the Material Plane to guard its natural wonders. Lizardfolk have colorful scales and exhibit a wide array of scale patterns. Their individual facial features are as varied as those of lizards.

Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 9:32 pm 5e is a platform to do whatever you want with and the old books didn't just disappear off the face of the planet

not a big deal do what you want

True. but it means I won't get any more decent content

You already weren't getting decent content

You were getting 5e

did anyone else think this thread was about the new marvel movie

"Typically lawful neutral" This reads like shit.

They are charging 60$ for this piece of shit half assed recycled garbage hardcover.

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 9:38 pm did anyone else think this thread was about the new marvel movie

you are stupid

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 9:35 pm As an example of this bullshit

The original description:

Lizardfolk possess an alien and inscrutable mindset, their desires and thoughts driven by a different set of basic principles than those of warm-blooded creatures. Their dismal swamp homes might lie hundreds of miles from the nearest human settlement, but the gap between their way of thinking and that of the smooth-skins is far greater.

New description:

Gifted by the gods with remarkable
physical defenses and a mystical connection to the natural world, lizardfolk can survive with just their wits in situations that would be deadly for other folk. Because of that fact, many lizardfolk myths state that their people were placed by the gods in the Material Plane to guard its natural wonders. Lizardfolk have colorful scales and exhibit a wide array of scale patterns. Their individual facial features are as varied as those of lizards.

Now that's a disappointing tonal shift, though not an unsurprising one given recent trends in D&D marketing.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 9:51 pm They are charging 60$ for this piece of shit half assed recycled garbage hardcover.

you can pirate it

I think that the leap from errata to we're basically gonna make the old books you bought get phased out because the woke brigade showed up is a shame.

However if you wanna look for the worst change done is has to be the Drow. "Oh that whole Lolth worshiping that we hammered home in every single book? Well that's just Menzoberranzan thing you can find plenty of neutral/good drow all over the place! Some Drow have never even heard of Lolth!" I remember losing my mind over that.

In all honesty the worst change was removing the shades of red dark vision from Fire genasis' and making them just the normal shades of grey.

makes sense the people complaining here would complain, seeing as they're incapable of experiencing someone elses point of view.

I never got people complaining about WOTC removing cultural stuff. People before always tend to prefer setting-agnostic systems to stuff with baked-in setting fluff.

I'm at the same place I was when they started to move away from racial attribute bonuses - Either the setting book should inform this stuff or the party / gamemaster should. The less of Faerun in the system, the better lmao

Doubleposting to say something with more substance. D&D 5e is good for what it is, a stepping stone into the wider world of ttrpgs. Literally all of your complaints mean nothing because the game will continue to go in the direction of simplification and polish for the money brought in by critical role. Instead seek the warmth and shelter of OSR. If you like power fantasy stuff hit up Godbound, otherwise Worlds Without Number is a really good system in development, or Troika which is a lot more fantasy stuff that tries to be less like D&D.

Also play Lancer RPG!!! I fucking love lancer

IkeTG wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:57 pm Doubleposting to say something with more substance. D&D 5e is good for what it is, a stepping stone into the wider world of ttrpgs. Literally all of your complaints mean nothing because the game will continue to go in the direction of simplification and polish for the money brought in by critical role. Instead seek the warmth and shelter of OSR. If you like power fantasy stuff hit up Godbound, otherwise Worlds Without Number is a really good system in development, or Troika which is a lot more fantasy stuff that tries to be less like D&D.

Also play Lancer RPG!!! I fucking love lancer

Thanks for the suggestions

Edit: I'm pretty aware of why its happening, and the thought process the designers are going through. I just think they are a bunch of scumbags for doing so. its not so much a problem of gutting lore, but charging 60$ to replace prexisiting content with shittier versions (there IS new lore by the way, it just sucks)

Boot wrote: ↑Sun May 29, 2022 10:28 pm I think that the leap from errata to we're basically gonna make the old books you bought get phased out because the woke brigade showed up is a shame.

However if you wanna look for the worst change done is has to be the Drow. "Oh that whole Lolth worshiping that we hammered home in every single book? Well that's just Menzoberranzan thing you can find plenty of neutral/good drow all over the place! Some Drow have never even heard of Lolth!" I remember losing my mind over that.

In all honesty the worst change was removing the shades of red dark vision from Fire genasis' and making them just the normal shades of grey.

Don't pretend that literally tens of thousands of people haven't played Drow PCs that weren't Lolth worshipping wacko if you genuinely think the "Drizzt so cool because he's the only one that escaped being an evil cult!" is epic storytelling you probably find Qanon a compelling and convincing narrative as well. The books are just following actual player behaviour on that front.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 12:57 am

IkeTG wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:57 pm Doubleposting to say something with more substance. D&D 5e is good for what it is, a stepping stone into the wider world of ttrpgs. Literally all of your complaints mean nothing because the game will continue to go in the direction of simplification and polish for the money brought in by critical role. Instead seek the warmth and shelter of OSR. If you like power fantasy stuff hit up Godbound, otherwise Worlds Without Number is a really good system in development, or Troika which is a lot more fantasy stuff that tries to be less like D&D.

Also play Lancer RPG!!! I fucking love lancer

Thanks for the suggestions

Edit: I'm pretty aware of why its happening, and the thought process the designers are going through. I just think they are a bunch of scumbags for doing so. its not so much a problem of gutting lore, but charging 60$ to replace prexisiting content with shittier versions (there IS new lore by the way, it just sucks)

I can't believe that they pushed the button triggering the microexplosive in every previous copy of the books and deleted all references to them online how could they do this.

This isn't a video game where you lose access to the previous version, and it's not like the whole point of 5e isn't to use it as a platform to build whatever you want on top as well. If you only ever played RAW you were always going to get an inferior experience

I'll admit i'm not personally affected, and my feelings in this thread are blown out of proportions. Its not like any of it even matters, but all the same I express my displeasure. This thread was written for the purpose of !FUN!

IkeTG wrote: ↑Mon May 30, 2022 11:49 pm I never got people complaining about WOTC removing cultural stuff. People before always tend to prefer setting-agnostic systems to stuff with baked-in setting fluff.

I'm at the same place I was when they started to move away from racial attribute bonuses - Either the setting book should inform this stuff or the party / gamemaster should. The less of Faerun in the system, the better lmao

Preach it, anything more than basics of lore should be kept in sourcebooks since its always shooed away by half the non faerun settings anyway

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 1:25 pm Preach it, anything more than basics of lore should be kept in sourcebooks since its always shooed away by half the non faerun settings anyway

So when SpellJammer comes out and they still don't got the alignments or ASI's. When they still gut what makes the races cool because "Oh no we don't want the Githyanki seem like nazis." You're taking the bait of "oh we just don't want everything to be automatically assumed to be the forgotten realms setting XDDD." They already took the scissors to Barovia, I swear to god they'll do the same to SpellJammer.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 8:07 pm So when SpellJammer comes out and they still don't got the alignments or ASI's. When they still gut what makes the races cool because "Oh no we don't want the Githyanki seem like nazis." You're taking the bait of "oh we just don't want everything to be automatically assumed to be the forgotten realms setting XDDD." They already took the scissors to Barovia, I swear to god they'll do the same to SpellJammer.

Starting off weak as heck complaining about lack of alignments or racial scores, it makes me really concerned about what you consider important to make settings or races 'cool'. It's like /tg/ posters who complain about stuff I basically agree with only to figure out down the line they spend four out of the seven days of the week playing super maid girls 5e with their quad-chinned racist friends over discord or shit and five years are shaved off my lifespan out of sheer embarrassment

IkeTG wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 9:43 pm Starting off weak as heck complaining about lack of alignments or racial scores, it makes me really concerned about what you consider important to make settings or races 'cool'. It's like /tg/ posters who complain about stuff I basically agree with only to figure out down the line they spend four out of the seven days of the week playing super maid girls 5e with their quad-chinned racist friends over discord or shit and five years are shaved off my lifespan out of sheer embarrassment

The story of the Half-Orc that does good dispite being pulled towards evil because their very soul is entwined with the evil orc god is a cool story. Drizzt was cool because he was the exception. If the evil men from the Mongolian underwater basket weaving really bother you that much then I would stop lurking on a 2d spessmen atmos-sim bearing its name.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm Drizzt was cool

opinion discarded. No such thing as a "cool" elf

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm If the evil men from the Mongolian underwater basket weaving really bother you that much then I would stop lurking on a 2d spessmen atmos-sim bearing its name.

If that's your takeaway from what I said I'm going to assume the maid girl comment struck a nerve...

I played enough 5e to not like that your character never feels competent at what they should be good at. You can play to your strengths and build a great character and then eat shit at everything you do.

Because of this fundamental failure, you suddenly can't play your character roleplay wise as "I am going to act with confidence/bravado at this thing because my character is good at it", because you're going to keep falling down all those stairs, bro.

I stick to Shadowrun 5e these days where you can play to your strengths while being intelligent in playing around your character's weaknesses. It's a lot more engaging.

Ziiro wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:11 am I played enough 5e to not like that your character never feels competent at what they should be good at. You can play to your strengths and build a great character and then eat shit at everything you do.

Because of this fundamental failure, you suddenly can't play your character roleplay wise as "I am going to act with confidence/bravado at this thing because my character is good at it", because you're going to keep falling down all those stairs, bro.

I stick to Shadowrun 5e these days where you can play to your strengths while being intelligent in playing around your character's weaknesses. It's a lot more engaging.

Shadowrun player spotted. Admiration given.

i like dwarves

Cool thing i found out, since the release of Monsters of the Multiverse, the price of the dnd 3.5 box set on amazon has gone up nearly 100 US dollars. Guess wizards of the coast knows how to make demand.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri May 27, 2022 9:29 pm God it sucks really bad. Didn't they already simplify the game enough? Who are we even marketing the game to anymore?
All the species features are either poorly designed or poorly implemented.

And oh, we better gut all mentions of species of humanoids being "evil" wouldn't want people to think we are racist towards fucking minotaurs.

There is nothing really new in this book aside for a few new playable and poorly designed humanoids.

Once again, another game staple alongside SS13 ruined by the suspiciously wealthy furries.

Stickymayhem wrote: ↑Tue May 31, 2022 7:41 am if you genuinely think the "Drizzt so cool because he's the only one that escaped being an evil cult!" is epic storytelling you probably find Qanon a compelling and convincing narrative as well.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm Drizzt was cool because he was the exception

I literally laid the trap in front of you did you critfail your perception check

Ziiro wrote: ↑Thu Jun 02, 2022 4:11 am I played enough 5e to not like that your character never feels competent at what they should be good at. You can play to your strengths and build a great character and then eat shit at everything you do.

Because of this fundamental failure, you suddenly can't play your character roleplay wise as "I am going to act with confidence/bravado at this thing because my character is good at it", because you're going to keep falling down all those stairs, bro.

I stick to Shadowrun 5e these days where you can play to your strengths while being intelligent in playing around your character's weaknesses. It's a lot more engaging.

Shadowrun is an awesome game with really solid lore. I tried to run it with some friends years back and it imploded. No one’s had the courage to run it since.

I guess I’ll have to settle with playing a troll decker in the video games.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Sun Jun 05, 2022 10:26 pm Shadowrun is an awesome game with really solid lore. I tried to run it with some friends years back and it imploded. No one’s had the courage to run it since.

I guess I’ll have to settle with playing a troll decker in the video games.

Avoid 6e. Sucks dick. 5e is still good, and it has really good support on the digital side:

Foundry has a really good 5e module that handles a lot of the rolling/grunt work and Chummer5 is a really, really good character creator (And it can import in to Foundry!)

Honest to god if it wasn't for the level of automation I have, I probably wouldn't bother. The fact that every attack takes 3 rolls (Attack/Dodge/Soak) and initiative is rerolled constantly means that the general bookkeeping sucks ass, but modern day innovation really makes it shine.

Ziiro wrote: ↑Mon Jun 06, 2022 11:03 pm Avoid 6e. Sucks dick. 5e is still good, and it has really good support on the digital side:

Foundry has a really good 5e module that handles a lot of the rolling/grunt work and Chummer5 is a really, really good character creator (And it can import in to Foundry!)

Honest to god if it wasn't for the level of automation I have, I probably wouldn't bother. The fact that every attack takes 3 rolls (Attack/Dodge/Soak) and initiative is rerolled constantly means that the general bookkeeping sucks ass, but modern day innovation really makes it shine.

Does Chummer automate dicechecks too? I thought it only automated character creation.

Farquaar wrote: ↑Tue Jun 07, 2022 12:58 am Does Chummer automate dicechecks too? I thought it only automated character creation.

Chummer for chargen, Foundry for actually playing the game. (Which prompts and auto-calculates dicerolls - you say "I want this token to attack this using this gun", and it pops up the dice calculated for the attack, and then the defending token's defense roll pops up based on that, and then the soak prompt pops up takes the results of that...)

Anyway I'll stop talking about Shadowrun in the D&D thread now.

when things are dumbed down hard enough, for long enough, people will eventually believe that's the way it's always been. its how history gets replaced with new versions

this is, a bad thing.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm The story of the Half-Orc that does good dispite being pulled towards evil because their very soul is entwined with the evil orc god is a cool story. Drizzt was cool because he was the exception. If the evil men from the Mongolian underwater basket weaving really bother you that much then I would stop lurking on a 2d spessmen atmos-sim bearing its name.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm Drizzt was cool because he was the exception.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:12 pm Drizzt was cool

Drizzt was cool (at least in the first 3 books, haven't read past)