Windows 10 - the message on the tgstation13 welcome page

[oranges]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Installing linux will stop the windows 10 auto upgrade.

[Ricotez]

Installing linux will stop the windows 10 auto upgrade.

[MrStonedOne]

Installing linux will stop the windows 10 auto upgrade.

I'm waiting for when microsoft starts spreading a rootkit that installs 10 over linux machines.

or sues a bunch of distros into selling off the company to pay the legal fees so they can add repo update that installs windows 10.

[nsos]

Installing linux will stop the windows 10 auto upgrade.

not if you're dual booting

[Malkevin]

I just hope that some european courts slam them for this and tell them to stop this shit or get banned from several countries, but we all know those are corrupt as fuck and give no shits anyway

Also, you can turn off the data gathering for windows 7 and 8 if you block those updates.
I downright refuse to move to windows 10 until I can get a modified version that removes all spyware. Fuck that shit

Its like MS's response to Snowden showing the NSA had backdoors in Windows was just to go "Okay, the jig is up, we'll just overtly gather data now, because FREEDOM!"

[Ricotez]

[MrStonedOne]

been getting a wave of reports of this happening again.

[TheWiznard]

I used that tool thing, and even used a different one before the tg message page, I don't have autoupdates on so hopefully I won't have to download a huge thing and ruin my datacap... actually fuck that might be something that contributed to my family's last months bill for going over the cap

[Lumbermancer]

provide some proof it's actually spyware

show me the individual spot where it grabs your browser history and sends your passwords to microsofty

You naive fool, you forgot to read the Licensing Terms and just skipped through, didn't you?

Here:

https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/Useterm ... nglish.htm

By accepting this agreement and using the software you agree that Microsoft may collect, use, and disclose the information as described in the Microsoft Privacy Statement (aka.ms/privacy), and as may be described in the user interface associated with the software features.

then here:

https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement

The data we collect depends on the services and features you use, and includes the following:

Name and contact data. We collect your first and last name, email address, postal address, phone number, and other similar contact data.

Credentials. We collect passwords, password hints, and similar security information used for authentication and account access.

Demographic data. We collect data about you such as your age, gender, country and preferred language.

Interests and favorites. We collect data about your interests and favorites, such as the teams you follow in a sports app, the stocks you track in a finance app, or the favorite cities you add to a weather app. In addition to those you explicitly provide, your interests and favorites may also be inferred or derived from other data we collect.

Payment data. We collect data necessary to process your payment if you make purchases, such as your payment instrument number (such as a credit card number), and the security code associated with your payment instrument.

Usage data. We collect data about how you and your device interact with our services. This includes data, such as the features you use, the items you purchase, the web pages you visit, and the search terms you enter. This also includes data about your device and the network you use to connect to our services, including IP address, device identifiers (such as the IMEI number for phones), regional and language settings. It includes information about the operating systems and other software installed on your device, including product keys. And it includes data about the performance of the services and any problems you experience with them.

Contacts and relationships. We collect data about your contacts and relationships if you use a Microsoft service to manage contacts, or to communicate or interact with other people or organizations.

Location data. We collect data about your location, which can be either precise or imprecise. Precise location data can be Global Position System (GPS) data, as well as data identifying nearby cell towers and Wi-Fi hotspots, we collect when you enable location-based services or features. Imprecise location data includes, for example, a location derived from your IP address or data that indicates where you are located with less precision, such as at a city or postal code level.

Content. We collect content of your files and communications when necessary to provide you with the services you use. For example, if you receive an email using Outlook.com, we need to collect the content of that email in order to deliver it to your inbox, display it to you, enable you to reply to it, and store it for you until you choose to delete it. Examples of this data include: the content of your documents, photos, music or video you upload to a Microsoft service such as OneDrive, as well as the content of your communications sent or received using Microsoft services such Outlook.com or Skype, including the:

subject line and body of an email,
text or other content of an instant message,
audio and video recording of a video message, and
audio recording and transcript of a voice message you receive or a text message you dictate.

[LiamLime]

Daily reminder that you stop getting prompted as soon as you upgrade

I've been on Win10 for about 8 months now and have had zero issues.

[Malkevin]

Yeah, but you were brought up in a totalitarian 1984 country, so you're used to having your porn search history scrutinised.

[LiamLime]

That was uncalled for.

In other news: NOBODY gives a shit about your porn history.

[Malkevin]

Struck a nerve?

[Lumbermancer]

In other news: NOBODY gives a shit about your porn history.

That's only one step below from saying: IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE...

[Steelpoint]

I've had no problems with Windows 10.

[LiamLime]

Struck a nerve?

Yes. Enjoy the fact you have a better life, but please don't talk down to those who don't.

In other news: NOBODY gives a shit about your porn history.

That's only one step below from saying: IF YOU HAVE NOTHING TO HIDE...

I didn't mean it in that wide a context, I meant it specifically about porn. There is no value from having that information about you.

[Lumbermancer]

There is no value from having that information about you.

Unless you're a married man in the position of power who is secretly gay.

[LiamLime]

which you aren't

[Malkevin]

Yes, I have enjoyed a better life.

Thanks in part to privacy laws preventing snooping by governments and businesses.
Privacy laws that are slowly getting pecked away as we get more and more 'thought' crimes passed.
I'd rather the Data Protection Act actually get upheld than people dismiss it with "Mikrozoft doz nut kare vhat u luk at komrade" before we get the point where we have to worry about that mayyybe external parties are holding too much information on us.


The porn comment was obviously tongue in cheek, but obviously I forgot I'm talking to not-Erro.

[Lumbermancer]

which you aren't

What the fuck kind of an counter argument is it? The point is that any personal information can be used against you in one way or another.

Can't you bongs even view internet porn without opting in with ISP first? Seems your government gives a lot of shit about your wanking habits.

[Malkevin]

which you aren't

What the fuck kind of an counter argument is it? The point is that any personal information can be used against you in one way or another.

Can't you bongs even view internet porn without opting in with ISP first? Seems your government gives a lot of shit about your wanking habits.

Indeed.

In fact every so often EE's web filter suffers alzemirhers and blocks singlio on my phone.


FakeEdit: Although actually the government DOES care what porn you look at, atleast the UK government - which only last year passed a bill "for the protection of women" that bans porn depicting certain 'degrading' sex acts, such as: rape simulation, water sports, bondage, and spanking.... consensual spanking...

[DemonFiren]

What the fuck did you turn "Alzheimer's" into?

And how the fuck are the UK even going to enforce this shit?

[Malkevin]

I'm dyslexic, fuck you don't oppress me CIS.

If I look out my window on a clear day I see across the valley to the other mountain ridge.
On that ridge there's about a half dozen Golf Balls.

This is a radio listening post built in the cold war by the USA and UK to spy on ruskie communications.
Since the cold war its been repurposed to monitor telephone calls, domestic telephone calls.
As well as text messages and other data traffic.


When Snowden revealed that the NSA was spying on European citizens all I did was glance out my window and say "No shit"

[LiamLime]

...

Let's not go there, because I agree with you that privacy is important, except on the specific concern that people care about your porn habits in any particular way. The privacy issues with win 10 have however been overblown far out of proportion. I keep a fairly close eye on windows update and security news, and have not heard any legitimate reports of things going awry. There was a scare about a month ago, but the report turned out to be completely false.

I'm not some crusader for Windows. Please lower your rifle. All I'm saying is that it's not bad.

[Lumbermancer]

No, Windows 7 didn't have such issues. But they were retroactively patched in before Windows 10 release. I posted guide to removing spyware updates on 7 somewhere here.

[LiamLime]

Nothing major changed between win 8 and win 10, just the issue came to light. It's one of those things which has existed for a while, and adding options to disable it made everyone explode. I dunno, it's weird.

Basically what they're gathering is usage and telemetry to see how the OS is actually used. You can easily opt out though. I mean they ask you during the install process, granted if you do express install it defaults to collecting telemetry. The other thing is an OS-wide advert cookie, which you can also disable easily in the same screen. None of this is new, all of this existed in win 8 as well. If you like it, great! If you don't you can disable it. I have all of it disabled.

The only thing that I see Microsoft doing here which, is different from Apple, Google or Facebook, is giving you a choice as to whether or not to send data.

I mean, maybe I'm wrong. Maybe Microsoft is still MICRO$OFT of the 90s, eager to collect all the data about you and sell it to the highest bidder, all the while shoving targeted ads down your throat. I'm not saying your concerns are invalid at all. I just think that microsoft is actually being responsible about how they tackle the whole privacy issue.

All in all, you know how TGS sometimes freaks out over completely random pull requests, and then a week later doesn't even remember what the previous version was like? This feels similar - people freaking out and making a minor thing the focus of their outrage. The reason I say this is because I use win 10 and it doesn't seem like a problem at all in practice. And the press I read seems to agree. You are however completely welcome to have your own opinion and remain on a previous version. Everyone has different priorities.

[Lumbermancer]

Maybe Microsoft is still MICRO$OFT of the 90s, eager to collect all the data about you and sell it to the highest bidder

Au contraire. If you read the privacy policy I posted above, you will learn that Microsoft is BUYING personnel data from 3rd parties. Meaning they are basically creating shadow profiles of you, just like Facebook does.

[LiamLime]

[DemonFiren]

What about unattended macbooks?

What about unattended linux machines?

[LiamLime]

If you wrote that unattended macbooks would be upgraded to windows 10, you run the risk of people purposefully leaving their macs unattended to get the upgrade.

I shudder at the thought of losing your android or ios phone though!

[Luke Cox]

Linux version of BYOND client when?

[PKPenguin321]

Why would you want 8 over 10 ever

[paprika]

Wow, I guess it's true what they say about free things

You are the product

[Lumbermancer]

Linux version of BYOND client when?

You can get it to run in Wine. I tried but failed because my Linux installation is fuck.

[TheWiznard]

Unfortunately my parents decided they would buy my laptop for me and at the time 8 was the latest version (I'm not sure if 8.1 was even out) and they bought it with it pre installed due to their company of choice deciding all laptops had to ship with 8 or not at all. I have never been a happy bunny over it and it took me half a year to start using the laptop.

Why would you want 8 over 10 ever

I actually like 8/8.1

[LiamLime]

I got used to 8 and 8.1 and preferred it to Win 7, If you like 8, you'll like 10 as well, as it does all the new things from win 8, but substantially better. You can actually use Metro apps as though they are apps and not in a weird separate interface. It ~actually~ makes Metro stuff useful.

[Takeguru]

I'm still gonna stick with 7

It's more like XP than 8 or 10 and XP is my OSfu

[MrStonedOne]

I'm still gonna stick with 7

It's more like XP than 8 or 10 and XP is my OSfu

[LiamLime]

The Windows Store is slowly being populated with various, actually useful apps, and there are a handful I use that are distributed through that: namely Toggl, Todoist, VLC and Audible. The vast majority of apps I use are, of course, classic apps. Basically metro apps now work the same way as normal apps - they aren't a tacked on, separate interface, like it was in windows 8 and 8.1, they are just prettier and follow a more modern design language. And while I'm sure some people will cling on to the older interfaces (See people still holding on to the Office 2003 interface despite the 2007+ one clearly being better), I can say for myself that I prefer the newer design language and going back to the old one feels like pixel hunting. Goddamn Unity 8x8 pixel "lock panel" buttons. Rawr.

[Incoming]

Never use the windows store, never use window store only apps. use standalone programs of apps instead of apps whenever they exist. Mircosoft wants to become the intermediary control for any and all programs on Windows. Humoring them is the first step to that dark future where every single thing on your computer is tied to a revokable account that you don't control. It is garbage.

[iamgoofball]

you shouldn't be using windows store apps

not because EXPAND EXTEND EXTINGUISH pitchfork waving,

but because intermediaries are shit always, since it complicates the process of using the software

even steam is slightly shit about that

[Malkevin]

Never use the windows store, never use window store only apps. use standalone programs of apps instead of apps whenever they exist. Mircosoft wants to become the intermediary control for any and all programs on Windows. Humoring them is the first step to that dark future where every single thing on your computer is tied to a revokable account that you don't control. It is garbage.

But.... 2003 was a better UI once you learnt it.
Everything was just, there, right in front of you.

Not like 2010+ where you go "I know this fucking feature exists, which bastard ribbon is it on"

[LiamLime]

Never use the windows store, never use window store only apps. use standalone programs of apps instead of apps whenever they exist. Mircosoft wants to become the intermediary control for any and all programs on Windows. Humoring them is the first step to that dark future where every single thing on your computer is tied to a revokable account that you don't control. It is garbage.

I'll accept that, in exchange for streamlined application updating. If we can get as painless an update process as it is on the app store or play store, I'll be quite willing to allow Microsoft to manage the main distribution channel for Windows.

I mean what is apt-get on Linux, what is the Mac store, what is the App store and what is the Play store? All these work perfectly fine and are way better than juggling exes. I know that we've gotten used to going to a website and downloading a program, installing it, etc. But honestly, for the vast majority of programs, I'd be quite happy to download it from a managed store in the same way we do for games on Steam.

For all of these, you can still get unsigned programs (.app on mac, .x86 on linux, .exe on windows, .apk on android .xap on Windows Phone and .(I forget) on iOS). All of these require the program to be signed with a reputable certificate before it will be ran and the only one of these which will outright refuse to run anything that is unsigned is iOS (even ad-hoc shared applications need to be signed by Apple). So don't worry, if you ever need an application which Microsoft would deny on the Windows Store, you will still be able to get it as an exe. There is nothing to indicate otherwise. There are a sufficient number of precedents that I'm sure of that.

you shouldn't be using windows store apps

not because EXPAND EXTEND EXTINGUISH pitchfork waving,

but because intermediaries are shit always, since it complicates the process of using the software

even steam is slightly shit about that

I disagree. Focused intermediaries are way better than the current intermediary, which are company/distribution websites, github or (shudder) sourceforge. Having all apps, organized into categories, with clear user ratings and reviews, offers a hugs benefit to us. I own a licensed version of photoshop elements. Getting it installed from Adobe's site is always a pain, whereas installing Photoshop express from the Windows store is trivially easy.

[Incoming]

Sounds like you got a bad case of "trusting microsoft not to fuck everything up".

[oranges]

You cannot turn of all the data collection unless you are an enterprise.

For every other person even disabling everything there is still quite a lot of data sent.

[LiamLime]

Well neither Apple, nor Google, nor any of the flavour of Linux, nor Amazon, nor Mozilla, nor Microsoft on the WinPhone or XBOX store, nor Steam, nor Sony, nor anyone else that I can think of, have shown any indication that they are fucking anything up. The worst sin that I can think of is Nintendo tying digital software to physical devices. I just don't see a precedent to be afraid that Microsoft would fuck this up. I mean the worst that can happen is to have consumers reject it. There is an alternative - exe files.

You cannot turn of all the data collection unless you are an enterprise.

For every other person even disabling everything there is still quite a lot of data sent.

I hate to do this to you, but I'd like a reputable source for this. Not because I want to question your claim by demanding proof you might not have, but because I'm genuinely curious to find out more, if there is anything to this. The last discussion I heard on this was research a few months ago, which was proven to be junk.

[oranges]

http://arstechnica.co.uk/information-te ... microsoft/

[LiamLime]

Thanks for the link! I was going to point out that even the authors of that article question the harmfulness of that. I realize that this would be moving goalposts from "do they send data" to "is it harmful". But then this popped up and now I am genuinely annoyed.

[oranges]

Well I'm sure it is harmless, I just don't like that they make it impossible to turn off.

For me it's not about the data, it's about the lack of user choice.


Also the whole idea of a office productivity suite as a webservice is not one I want to even think about too much.

[LiamLime]

You can turn it off for good in the firewall. That's 'registry edit' tier of inconvenience, though. If you really wanted to, however, you can.

[mosquitoman]

I warned you about this almost a year ago and all you did was laugh at me:
https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?t=4301

Can you see now how ironic this shit is? That I could see this coming from hundreds of miles away while you remained blind? Good to see that most of you woke up finally.

Do not touch Windows 10 even with a ten ft pole through a plastic bag. It's a shit, hostile system that's designed to trap you and turn your computer against you. Refuse it at all costs; avoid like the plague.