2k17 /pol/

[ColonicAcid]

Bottom post of the previous page:

Also by the time that the Emirate of Cordoba broke off from the Umayyad caliphate the Emirs of Cordoba have been born in Spain for the last ~7 generations, intermingling with the local population, mostly Christian concubines. By the time it turned into the Caliphate of Cordoba the Calpih, Abd-ar-Rahman III was described as the following:

white skin, blue eyes and attractive face; good looking, although somewhat sturdy and stout

In fact, he was the nephew of the Queen of Navarre. The first Emir of Cordoba was also the son of a Berber concubine. Yeah, I get it "le arab rape train" but that is so far from the truth. There's a reason they're called moors and not arabs, by the time the reconquista came along you could hardly tell the difference between the Moorish lords and the Christian lords due to them basically having interbred for over 400 years.

[Super Aggro Crag]

I got no problem with them saying there was black people in roman times cuz there were thats a fact. But denying that racism ever happened in roman times and portraying rome as a big multicultural love fest with subsaharan africans moving to England and having coffee colored babies with blonde haired blue eyed celts is fucking stupid. Yes of course there were black people in rome but they were a fuckijg minority and putting them in the forefront is disingenuous attempt at representation. The same series also has black fucking celts. How many of them were there? Instead of pretending white people had no history ever and black people are responsible for every advancement how about we try to undo years of cultural hegemony and oppression by trying to unearth black history that has been buried by those dirty fucking anglos. I aint gonna be upset when the bbc releases a series and there aint no white dudes in Shaka Zulu's army.

[XSI]

As usual, Crag says it the way it is with perfect accuracy as what the point of it all is

The issue here is that they're pushing shit for the sake of diversity and that is a great reason for them to get their funding cut
It also appears I hit a nerve there. I did not imply romans were the great white aryan race Hitler loved and wanted to emulate or some shit(That was Mussolini, he had a boner for ancient Rome I think). I just said that there weren't many blacks and pushing them to the forefront for the sake of diversity is not a good thing. They had black people. No, they're not sending sub-saharan black people to go up to Britain so they could get themselves a white wimmins
Yes, the people in what is now Morroco were darker than north-europeans. No, they're not sub-saharan blacks and they weren't at the time either. Genetic testing has shown that while the mediteranean people- And even moors- are darker than(And genetically distinct from) north europeans, they still are very distant from sub-saharan Africans. You may think there is a substantial african component to them, but that is not true if you examine their genetics. To present them as africans is just plain incorrect
Romans were not lily-white germanic people, but they're closer to that than they were to sub-saharan blacks

Though you do raise a good point about the numidians, those were technically a people of sub-saharan stock weren't they?

But this entire thing is all pointless when the entire reason for the outrage is the agenda pushing

[Super Aggro Crag]

As usual, Crag says it the way it is with perfect accuracy as what the point of it all is

[Professor Hangar]

I wouldn't be surprised if there weren't a lot of full on dark skinned people in the Roman Empire, but they rarely talked about race in phenotypes as we know them much (and likely didn't have anywhere near the same idea as we did; most dwellers of Germany and Britain would have been considered sheep-fucking barbarians to them) but the whole attitude does pretty much come off as 'Getting your uppity blacks up in my 100% white aryan fantasy kingdom'.

Half the deal with Rome is that they were a massive, diverse empire with (at least in the start) its eyes on the prize and the pragmatic policy of setting up trade, upward mobility and even welfare programs to keep the money program, people fed and make the most use of all the land they conquered. And in many ways it wasn't a lot like the society we know today; religious freedom was something of a given with the state religion being polytheistic and basically room for nearly any wacky god you choose so long as you also say the God-Emperor is great (Which made Jews and Christians difficult dissidents because their weird alien religion didn't acknowledge other gods; other people often thought they were atheists) and slaves could be anything from miners being routinely worked to death to teachers and scholars who were better off than you were, and might be freed and buy their own slaves.

Basically, while modern racial diversity probably isn't accurate to what Rome was like, it's one of the few places in history where you would see people of different skin tone considered as equals in the same society, and 99% of depictions of Rome are pretty much definitely wrong anyway, so it's not much worth getting aggro about it.

Of course, it's also correct that there needs to be focus on African history rather than trying to find ways to insert black people into medieval Europe, which was a near literal backwater shithole for most of its history before and after Rome anyway. There's some amusing history there of explorers finding huge elaborate ruins and ancient buildings and assuming wacky immigration theories because they couldn't believe black people could have built them. (and then whitey came back to steal everything not nailed down)

[DemonFiren]

it's not worth getting aggro about
it's worth getting supper aggro about

[Super Aggro Crag]

Its not uppity its holding people to the same standards they hold others too. The left got pissed that a Chinese company casted white actors to play European mercenaries in their movie about giant lizard monsters attacking the great wall of china. If they can get pissed about white people being a centerpiece in a work of fiction I don't know why white people can't get pissed about them making black people the centerpiece on a work of nonfiction instead of how the vast majority of Romans looked: Mediterranean dudes.

Motherfuckers constantly pissed about "whitewashing" history and fiction but can't fucking help tossing Tyronius the Token in and making the Celts into a multicultural horde of rainbow skin tones instead of an actual ethnic group of pasty barbarians. (PS I know Tyrone is an Irish derived name dont make jokes about Irish people being African the reason black people are called Tyrone so much is because the fucking Anglos tended to group Irish people in with blacks when Irish folk came to America and they done interbred in their lower class hovels while the Anglo scum grew fat on their labor)

Fuck the English

[ColonicAcid]

Uh Tyrone being an irish name isn't an american invention you pumpkin face. It's the anglicised spelling of Tyrowen

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/County_Tyrone

[Super Aggro Crag]

No shit you fucking idiot hence why I said black people have that name because they culturally mixed with the fucking Irish.

[ColonicAcid]

Less to do with interbreeding and more with people choosing names that aren't English.

It's the same reason why DeAndre became popular, because people don't associate french people with slavery.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Where the fuck all them Haitians from then

[Professor Hangar]

The French being stereotyped as surrender-monkeys has handily erased that they used to own a quarter of Africa.

[Super Aggro Crag]

This why we need history to not be sanitized and turned into political fodder

[ColonicAcid]

No I know fucking frenchies were part of the slave trade. But compared to the british and the portuguese the french were but a small fucking pool in the entire works.

Even the british compared to the portuguese were a small pond compared to a huge ocean. 92% of slaves went to Brazil, northern Americas slave population was largely stable due to them not having an average life expectancy of 2 weeks in a sugar cane factory.

regardless, to the american south and freed slaves, France were not seen as slave owners, neither were scottish or irish people. That's why Tyrone, DeAndre and DeShawn came to be. All it took to make it ebonic was to add De to the front. You're very misconceived if you believe that in the late 1800's and early 1900's that Irish people were seen lower than black people so it was seen as socially okay to marry. Let me remind you that miscegeny laws were in effect here.

The whole POOR WHITE IRISH GIRLS FORCED TO BREED WITH AFRICANS IN THE 1800's is a myth buddy. It's been widely disregarded in modern history because it simply never happened. It was a product of the stupid period of forced racial rhetoric by pseudo-historians in the mid 20th century.

Look at Eleanor Butler and how as soon as she dared to marry an African slave the colony of maryland instantly created miscegeny laws so it would never happen again. Irish people were seen as lower than other white people but not as low as to be able to marry a black slave.

Educate yourself before you spout shit you heard from /pol/ or from your nearest fucking tea party supporter.
Here, I'll help you with a website:
https://medium.com/@Limerick1914/the-im ... 3e70aa6e74

[Professor Hangar]

A general rule of racism is that it's always way more complicated and way more stupid than you could possibly imagine at first glance.

[Super Aggro Crag]

>PEOPLE NEVER BROKE THE LAW SO THIS THING NEVER HAPPENED

How the f are American blacks got so much European ancestry then like I literally dont understand. also stop trying to fucking bait everything into a fucking racist argument so you can call me a nazi you dumb faggot, I said "Irish and blacks intermingled" and you spout "PO WHITE GURLZ FORCED TO MARRY DARKIES" like shit dude I'm racist and I fully admit to being racist but the stuff you keep spouting to try and straw man me is straight fucking ignorant.

What's your horse in this race colonic acid are you some sort of black guy or just a white dude getting offended on the half of his African brothers I want to know why you gotta be so fucking hostile like shit its not like I spent the last three pages saying the n-word over and over chill the frig out.

[ColonicAcid]

Lmao, stop trying to play the victim here. I'm not trying to bait you into anything, you're welcome to your opinion. If you truly think that the Irish were truly enslaved to the same extent that black people were and forced to interbreed that's on you.

But don't try and push that drivel as fact. I like to operate on the belief that when someone is wrong I should correct them. If I see someone talking some shit about chemistry I'll do the same thing as well. That's how much of scientific discourse goes. You see something wrong, you challenge it and provide evidence. If the other person still doesn't accept it oh well what can you do.

But yeah actually you're right this is just my master plan to bait you into saying "lets dress up in white hoods and burn all the blacks" through a series of fake websites and mistrustful links. You saw through my whole goddamn plan you're too damn SMART crag.

[DemonFiren]

crag is too aggro

[Super Aggro Crag]

I never once said the Irish were fucking enslaved and forced to interbreed with blacks Jesus fucking Christ dude. You say when people are wrong you correct them but this whole argument started when people said "hey dont try to sanitize history and turn everyone black to make white people feel less guilty about their history of fucking over everyone". I guess at this point you are just trolling so uh, enjoy whatever hollow victory you get you started acting so silly that I tap out and concede, black people built the dang roman empire and Charlemagne was actually Korean my dude.

*burns cross a little* Hitler did some things wrong but I'm noncommital on the continued existence of brown folk!!!!!

[starmute]

This is why you don''t talk to SAC. He wants to make things personal and takes things personally.

[ColonicAcid]

Ah yeah look at that it's the "stop doing this thing that I'm also doing at the same time".

Nobody is trying to say that everyone running around the Roman empire was all blacks. All the provinces were majority of the ethnicity that were already there. There's also this sentiment however that Rome was actually just white people running around and only white people. It very much wasn't. The reason the Roman empire succeeded was because it could move resources easily across the empire. People are resources. The army was 50% roman citizens (which again could be of any ethnicity since any of their immediate family could've served as an auxiliary and gained Roman citizenship) and 50% Auxiliary units which could be from anywhere in the Empire depending on need. Numidian cavalry, Balearic slingsmen, Epirus cavalry, Egyptian Archers. All could've been attached to any one legion and been put in any one of the provinces in the empire depending on need.

When you argue with SAC you just have to take everything he throws at you as banter. Even if he means it he has the memory of a goldfish and soon forgets about all the shit hes thrown after like a week. I got a thick skin I can take some mean words lmao.

[starmute]

Egyptian Archers

Worst archers in Rome Total War 2. Would not buy.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Golly jee willikers I wonder why someone would take it personal that they are being characterized as a neo-nazi because they said that roman people were olive skinned

Quick tell me that you believe that the country shouldn't be run exclusively for the benefit of the ultrarich so i can call you a Ukrainian murdering stalin holodomor babyslayimg Vietcong Tiananmen tankman squashing commie

If you treat everyone like they're a radical extremist they're going to start thinking hey the only way to get people to talk to me is by being a radical extremist

Here's a think for you every time there is an act of Islamic terrorism we are told we should not blame Islamic people because they are the real victims because our anger at them is what turns them to radicalism and murderlust. Now take a look at the cultural zeitgeist of today and you throw your hands up and wonder why acts of white, racially and religiously motivated extremism and violence is on the rise. Blame that dickhead Donny T. Rump all you want but he's just a symptom of the problem and took advantage of it. When you disenfranchise people and shout down any complaints about their treatment as being justifiable dont be surprised when they turn into dickheads. If German people didn't get the shit end of the stick and suffered a massive economic blunderfuck post WWI then they probably wouldn't have thought the guy on the podium screaming about taking back what's theirs is all that attractive of a leader.

That's just my opinion tho

[Super Aggro Crag]

Ah yeah look at that it's the "stop doing this thing that I'm also doing at the same time".

Nobody is trying to say that everyone running around the Roman empire was all blacks. All the provinces were majority of the ethnicity that were already there. There's also this sentiment however that Rome was actually just white people running around and only white people. It very much wasn't. The reason the Roman empire succeeded was because it could move resources easily across the empire. People are resources. The army was 50% roman citizens (which again could be of any ethnicity since any of their immediate family could've served as an auxiliary and gained Roman citizenship) and 50% Auxiliary units which could be from anywhere in the Empire depending on need. Numidian cavalry, Balearic slingsmen, Epirus cavalry, Egyptian Archers. All could've been attached to any one legion and been put in any one of the provinces in the empire depending on need.

When you argue with SAC you just have to take everything he throws at you as banter. Even if he means it he has the memory of a goldfish and soon forgets about all the shit hes thrown after like a week. I got a thick skin I can take some mean words lmao.

I totally concede that the roman empire was in fact full of multiethnic auxilaries and a strength of the roman empire was their logistics and road fetish bro. Also Balearic slingers were fucking boss dude top choice.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Like shit no duh the roman empire was a multiethnic state that's why its called an empire in pretty sure the definition of empire means its multiethnic. Unless they changed that on me or I'm misremembering.

[ColonicAcid]

slingers have always been sick.

your ammo is literally scattered around the battlefield and people like to think that "its just a rock lmao how can that hurt" but they have never actually seen a proper trained slinger in real life.

That shit flies like a fucking missile and they can fling it for a very large distance.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Yeah dude like legit I am never going to argue with you on anything ever again because I have too much respect for your appreciation of those stone cold Greek bullet chucking madmen.

Any game that lets me use a sling I always home in on that shit like a shark to a seal on her period with an open wound and an electrical signaller on her back

I like using the sling in chivalry and I always chose my Gods in Age of Mythology to give me the most bonuses to slingers so I can spam those dudes when I play Egypt.

[ColonicAcid]

The meaning of empire is blurred since any king could literally call themselves emperor and they would be an empire.

The Mongol Empire started as just mongols but then expanded to Europe. But they were still an empire even when it was just mongolians because they were a collection of tribal states.

The German Empire at its forming just constituted of German peoples but it was a collection of German states so it technically was an Empire. The antiquity empire however was usually a collection of local kings ruled by one "high king", ala the Persian empire: Shah of Shahs etc.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Aw shit

[Professor Hangar]

There's a definition of a proper empire; a nation that exerts its power over other nations and surrounding areas with military force to conquer and rule, and generally establishes some form of infrastructure to maintain it. The Assyrians are usually called the first known empire for their behaviour, compared to other civilisations just gathering tribute or raiding.

[XSI]

Does Crag ever get tired of being right?

I don't know, but have an article on the recent shit at google
https://www.theverge.com/2017/8/7/16111 ... -manifesto
>Raise point that maybe hiring on diversity standards isn't good
>Point out that white men are threatened and have to suppress their opinions or be fired/treated like subhumans
>Fired, thus proving him right

[Screemonster]

The best part is that he wasn't named in the initial articles or anything and got the big ol' statement that the company disagrees with him, but he wasn't fired until the mess went viral and people started calling for blood on social media.

And he wasn't named in the initial news articles specifically because the publications in question knew there would be a witch-hunt. Thus proving his point even further.

[starmute]

You don't want to draw attention to yourself if you work for a company. If you publicly shame your own company then you probably are going to get fired. I don't agree with everything my company does but I don't write a 10 page manifesto and distribute it online.

Here's the full document.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... hamber.pdf

[XSI]

From what I heard
He did it anonymously

And yet, him being fired proves him right. Plus he's getting job offers from wikileaks and he might be getting a lawyer for it
My bet would be that he knew it would happen and decided to make it happen so he could profit from it.

Maybe he'll make blog vids and collect on a patreon or something

[DemonFiren]

>gets himself fired from jewgle
>uses opportunity to jew even harder
oy gevalt

[lntigracy]

You don't want to draw attention to yourself if you work for a company. If you publicly shame your own company then you probably are going to get fired. I don't agree with everything my company does but I don't write a 10 page manifesto and distribute it online.

Here's the full document.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/docume ... hamber.pdf

When it was first reported about, the recently appointed VP of Diversity and Inclusion said that while she didn't agree with his views, Google promotes the sharing of opposing viewpoints.

It wasn't an issue until his name came out and people started calling for his firing by name.

Edit: What this guy who beat me to it said.

The best part is that he wasn't named in the initial articles or anything and got the big ol' statement that the company disagrees with him, but he wasn't fired until the mess went viral and people started calling for blood on social media.

And he wasn't named in the initial news articles specifically because the publications in question knew there would be a witch-hunt. Thus proving his point even further.

[starmute]

Again. If you criticize the company you work for don't expect not to be canned. Google can claim that they "support the sharing of opposing viewpoints, but really as a company they don't want to look bad. And he put his name on the report so.... kinda hard not to "call him out" I mean... he put his name down.

[lntigracy]

Reading comprehension when

[Incomptinence]

What the fuck? Do they think kiddy rapists get whisked off to The Culture or a glue factory when they leave prison?

This unpersoning shit again and again.

[XSI]

Ideally, we'd not have to deal with any of that

But in an imperfect world, we do. The cops have tools and one of the tools is informants. Sometimes informants have to do bad shit to get that info, sometimes the informants are bad people who enjoy doing that bad stuff, and sometimes they need more time during which there are more victims

In the end, it really sucks for everyone who did get victimised. But they did end up catching more people, and then ultimately stopping more crime by taking them off the streets than they would have by not using informants.
In theory at least. People can argue about what a proper payment is for an informant, but in the end that's how policework works sometimes

[Professor Hangar]

When it comes to rape, Britain and 'the usual suspects' I was expecting more 70s celebrities and politicians.

[Incomptinence]

Can't wait until they realise imprisoning rapists costs money then reverse their position on capital punishment.

I mean they're shitty dudes but anyone naively suggesting they become an untouchable caste and no one ever engages in commerce with them again because it makes the cash in their eyes the spunk equivalent of blood money get out of fucking democracies.

[imblyings]

surely most people are happy to see the police publicizing results of arrests against the sex crime rings and perhaps putting some hope into those communities? It feels more like the mainstream news trying to find any hook whatsoever in their local events to manufacture outrage with.

[Professor Hangar]

into those communities? It feels more like the mainstream news trying to find any hook whatsoever in their local events to manufacture outrage with.

Well, duh. When was the last time they did literally anything else?

[Professor Hangar]

Trying to say that instead of 'Middle Eastern', or the dreaded 'Muslim'.

There's some huge holes in this story, and if they're trying to stop racist backlash obviously that ain't gonna work, it's not like that needs facts to feed itself. It sounds like there's some huge issues no one wants to clarify. Guessing a bunch of Muslim autists whom women of their own ethnicity don't want to get anywhere near when they have the freedom to be elsewhere.

Edit: Oh, apparently the bobbies tend to ignore the girls and their families' accusations, figuring they're slags who were asking for it.

[XSI]

They really are trying hard. It's another day and they're still peddling it but at least for the beeb, a little thing has snuck in about "Hey, aren't a lot of these people, in these cases, British Asian?" So I'm wondering where they are going with this story or if they are indeed trying to produce an opinion.
(Stuff here)
From the article, "most" were British born but:

... are from Iraqi, Bangladeshi, Pakistani, Indian, Iranian and Turkish communities

So not quite all Asian.

This basically shows the bullshit about it
They're not asian. They're a bunch of muslims from the middle east. But them saying muslims risks whoever is in government losing muslim votes. Pakistan barely counts as asia, it's all bullshitting to make people think chinese or japanese immigrants do it too, because that's what people think when they hear 'asian'

Definitely them trying to form a 'correct' opinion for their viewers

[Malkevin]

It was a dozen muslims and one mudshark.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Whether they own or are partial to the turkish flag at the scene of the crime is yet to be really confirmed as to their country of origin.

[starmute]

Oh god my pots and pans. They are such a mess.... :*(

[Grazyn]

So, Italy tightened up the sea border thanks to increased navy patrols and an agreement with the Lybian government which restricted the NGO's (basically ferries for immigrants) area of operations. However, the flow can't be stopped so easily, so it redirected towards other, softer borders, causing them to collapse. This is the result

[youtube]DpgbOUKAcSg[/youtube]

[youtube]3KAzTjlZV00[/youtube]

[InsaneHyena]

I see doctors, scientists and engineers, women and children.