2k17 /pol/

Talk about non-ss13 stuff here.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Karp » #332300

Bottom post of the previous page:

All policy decisions are evaluated at a cost level, even human lives unfortunately

said program is not cost effective or will not provide a beneficial service that has a reason to exist long run(Economic strife leading to job loss is an example of no net economic benefit initially but leads to more positives in the long term when people dont experience a famine)

The program may sound nice but in reality you're spending more to do less, anyone who commits to cheating the test can easily fake urine and there are well over a thousand fake urine kits online with fake penises and such so people can entirely cheat it unless you strip search everyone before they take it

Not to mention that marijuana is on the lower end of harmful, even less so than alcohol in most recent studies, maybe you can argue the point with heroin/meth addicts but heroin was caused by doctors over prescribing medication regardless which is super easy to get hooked on
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332301

no one is going to reply to the part about taking drugs being a 100% your own choice, which is the part i capitulated and focused on, instead you will argue against the law, which is not even the main focus of my argument.

or will you?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332302

Putting drug tests on welfare has always been a populism decision.

It's never been about cutting costs.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332303

ColonicAcid wrote:Hahaha yeah right bruh.

Don't say things you don't understand. We all think we're free thinking beings but underneath it all it's circuits that are millions of years old.

Let me tell you a little experiment that shows just how much control you really have. There's an experiment involving hooking your brain up so it can show brain activity and asking people to raise whichever hands they want.

You can tell exactly what hand they'll raise seconds before they raise it by looking at the areas of activity. Your brain has made the decision fucking centuries before but you're under the illusion you chose it.

We. Are. Not. Special.

Why do you think obesity is a big problem? Our brains are wired to crave high sugar foods. They specifically taste good to make us want more. When we were hunter gatherers this was great, we rarely ever got food that high in sugars so you gotta take advantage when it happens. Now though? They're everywhere. But our brains haven't adapted yet, so we're still in hunter gatherer mode.
1. You're coming off as if you're mad and as though you just want to bully people into agreeing. This does not help your argument and makes you look like you're mildly insane or maybe just a bit unhinged
2. I suppose serial killers should not be punished for a brain that is evolved for killing the other tribe either then..No? Somehow restraining our natural violent impulses is considered normal but restraining our impulse to do drugs and eat fat foods is different
3. Obesity is a problem because these people refuse to adapt their lifestyle to modern amenities. This is a personal failing, not a biological one. A biological one would be if they were practically incapable of burning fat when exercising or were incapable of eating healthy foods. It just so happens that a lot of people DID adapt to this and they did so with the same kind of brains as the fat people. You know what happens when a fat person decides to stop being fat? They actually start losing weight because they consciously make their actions fit their desires. It may not be fast, it may not be easy, but they can all do it if they want it bad enough. You are right that there are some parts of the brain that haven't adapted yet, but they're not the part of the brain that is in control
Unless you let it, and then you're eating twinkies for breakfast because high calorie sweet foods taste good and hitting your wife because your instinct at being displeased or annoyed by anything is to apply violence
But if you just decide you don't want that part to be in control, you tell it to fuck off and have a lettuce/tomato sandwich instead

We are not just animals as you're suggesting. We are people, and we can change both ourselves and the world around us. But only if we want to, if we don't care then the animal-level parts of the brain will just handle it.
And guess what? You're right we're not special. Some monkeys have been shown to do the same, with some getting tested and having slightly below human intellect. But this doesn't give people an excuse to just let themselves go and binge on fat and do drugs because thats what the animal bit wants
But if we take both humans and monkeys together? Yeah, that group is pretty special


Also I agree with Scree on whether drug testing should be done. If it doesn't actually make a profit for the state it's probably not worth investing into. And when considering that drug tests are both amazingly easy to bypass as mentioned above(Have someone else piss in a bottle for you), and often give false positives(Sesame seeds in sufficient quantity test the same as cocaine for many tests, many other normal foodstuffs include things that may test positive for some drugs you may not even have heard of if you've eaten them in sufficient amounts)
You're going to need a better test before you can make that one work out in any sort of reasonable manner
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Wyzack » #332304

Are you claiming painkillers aren't bad for you or that people may not know they are bad for you
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332305

XSI summarizes my points into one, bless him.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332307

Also yeah, the painkillers thing is an issue. Those people should be helped to get rid of that addiction as possible, not just given more painkillers and ignored
And also not just having their painkillers taken away

That's just going to lead to bad times all around
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ShadowDimentio » #332308

Wyzack wrote:Are you claiming painkillers aren't bad for you or that people may not know they are bad for you
A little of both. Painkillers, when used properly, are very good at killing pain. When misused, especially if they contain opioids, they're extremely addictive, and thus bad.

Consequently, when people were given painkillers by their doctors, they thought they'd be fine to take them as prescribed, which was often indefinitely in cases of severe pain. By the time the pain subsided, the patients were addicted, and couldn't just stop taking the meds.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332309

I have literally pointed out multiple times that drug addiction is not always up to the person.

Humans in precarious positions will do stupid shit. Doing smack right now may not seem like a smart decision at all, but imagine in 10 years you've got no job and your life is meaningless and you're suffering from depression. Your entire mindset has changed. Youre no longer the same person that thought doing smack is a fucking terrible idea. Now it actually sounds like a great idea. Its a couple of hours where you can forget about all your problems for the price of 40 a gram. No more thinking about the bills you won't be able to pay. No more thinking about the divorce you're currently undertaking. Custody of the kids? Who gives a shit right now I'm chasing the Dragon.

Drug abuse is a form of escapism. Except it barrels down to the point where it turns from escapism to normal reality. Look at what people write in the vent threads. The internet and video games are also a form of escapism. Like fuck don't tell me when you were a kid you didn't play games so you could escape your problems for those few hours that you were playing.


It's very easy for a normal healthy person to go "Yeah well I'll never do that". I'm sure all addicts think that before they're balls deep in their addiction.

That's the thing about addiction. You think you're in control, and that very illusion pushes you past the point of no return.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Karp » #332310

You cannot unironically say "drugs are bad" without acknowledging that the entire fiasco of the fentanyl and heroin epidemic were created by doctors and legal sources handing said medication out then cutting the supply, causing the victims to go to heroin for a cheaper and more available source

The medication itself is super addictive too and biochemistry plays a huge part into it as said by colonic, Some people do get hooked on their first taste and then they're forced to go to heroin thanks to how much opiates can mess with you.

If you unironically think everyone who's on heroin is just a worthless druggie i plead you to read up on the opiate epidemic and the disaster it was with how people placed faith in medical professionals. Most of the deaths related to it occur around the suburbs too and not in any major city as it affected the middle class the hardest too iirc

Marijuana itself has been tested too and comparatively isnt as harmful as alcohol

Blanketing "drugs r bad mmkay" as policy leads to a lot of kneejerk reactions that cause a net negative to society, in a humane and cost-wise approach
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332311

Addiction sucks but it doesnt mean colonic isnt a twat who is incapable of having a conversation without trying to unzip his academia dick and forcd it down everyones throats so he gets the smug sense of satisfaction that sustains him
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332312

ColonicAcid wrote:I have literally pointed out multiple times that drug addiction is not always up to the person.

In the end, it really is.

Humans in precarious positions will do stupid shit. Doing smack right now may not seem like a smart decision at all, but imagine in 10 years you've got no job and your life is meaningless and you're suffering from depression. Your entire mindset has changed. Youre no longer the same person that thought doing smack is a fucking terrible idea. Now it actually sounds like a great idea. Its a couple of hours where you can forget about all your problems for the price of 40 a gram. No more thinking about the bills you won't be able to pay. No more thinking about the divorce you're currently undertaking. Custody of the kids? Who gives a shit right now I'm chasing the Dragon.

The same can be said about murder and rape; I agree, human instinct drives us to do things that affect us negatively, however, as not only adults but humans we are obligated to resist our animalistic urges and expect the same from others. Murders probably told themselves that they would never commit such an act too.

Drug abuse is a form of escapism. Except it barrels down to the point where it turns from escapism to normal reality. Look at what people write in the vent threads. The internet and video games are also a form of escapism. Like fuck don't tell me when you were a kid you didn't play games so you could escape your problems for those few hours that you were playing.

Yeah, but none of us are kids anymore and we now know to use our willpower to resist our urges.


It's very easy for a normal healthy person to go "Yeah well I'll never do that". I'm sure all addicts think that before they're balls deep in their addiction.

That's the thing about addiction. You think you're in control, and that very illusion pushes you past the point of no return.

That's why you don't open the pandora's box in the first place.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332314

Also please stop propagating this myth that we can actually beat our chemical impulses.

Like hell no dude. Look at the way they make robot mice. They plug up the brain and they manage to tell the rat how to move through basically fucking electricity black magic.

People have said that this must obviously cause the rat pain! It must not like to be moved when it isn't even doing it. But the reality is, the way it works is that they've hijacked the natural brain processes of the rat and reward it by releasing a shit ton of dopamine when it does what they order. To the rat, every time the scientists move it it feels like fucking nirvana. But for all intents and purposes it has zero fucking idea it's been controlled. When the scientist tells it to move right and it does, it just thinks it's doing this off it's own accord.


It's very idealic and oh so liberal (in the classic sense) to think that we have broken free from such silly things as impulses but that's simply not true. We've developed a way to think we have but in reality our brain circuits work in the background without our knowing.

If you want to read more about just how much control we have go read about all the experiments they did in the late 19th and 20th century on people with their right and left lobe disconnected.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332315

Super Aggro Crag wrote:Addiction sucks but it doesnt mean colonic isnt a twat who is incapable of having a conversation without trying to unzip his academia dick and forcd it down everyones throats so he gets the smug sense of satisfaction that sustains him
Whatever you say bud.

In a way this is more of a testament to me making the right choice in my subject. If I can argue so intensely on a forum for a server I don't even play on for literally zero award imagine the things I'll do when money's involved.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332316

I think if its more expensive to drug test all the junkie fucks they might as well give em welfare and use the money they save not having them piss in cups to fund treatment centers to get those wastoids to stop bein' so addicted to shit
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by onleavedontatme » #332317

Colonic is living proof of our inability to control our impulses because he keeps typing up big serious replies to people comparing smoking pot to rape and murder.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332318

Do u want to know the worse thing? I've done this entire debacle on my phone.


My short stubby fingers have cramps now.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332319

ColonicAcid wrote:
Super Aggro Crag wrote:Addiction sucks but it doesnt mean colonic isnt a twat who is incapable of having a conversation without trying to unzip his academia dick and forcd it down everyones throats so he gets the smug sense of satisfaction that sustains him
Whatever you say bud.

In a way this is more of a testament to me making the right choice in my subject. If I can argue so intensely on a forum for a server I don't even play on for literally zero award imagine the things I'll do when money's involved.
R u retarded
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332320

In other news, people are rats and rats know exactly what the substances do because they're told about it
Apples and oranges, people knowingly do shit they've always been told is bad. It turns out to be bad. Who do we blame? The people who do shit they know is bad

If you don't want to answer anyone's points, why are you still replying with huge textwalls?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332321

ColonicAcid wrote:Do u want to know the worse thing? I've done this entire debacle on my phone.


My short stubby fingers have cramps now.
Sorry about ur cramps i guess youll go shoot up fentanyl now because opiod addiction is a foregone conclusion mighr as well jump to the finish line

Im joking ok colonic just a spot of banter haha
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332322

I had to get CT scan when I was born because they thought i had something wrong with my brain because of my headshape but apparently it was nothing so I mean maybe I am who knows.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332323

ColonicAcid wrote:Also please stop propagating this myth that we can actually beat our chemical impulses.

If we couldn't, human civilization wouldn't have been possible and rates of rape and murder in cities jungles would be variably indistinguishable from those in ape-inhabited jungles. Hell, even if it's not "beating your chemical impulses" there is certainly a way to resist your urges, no doubt about that.

Like hell no dude. Look at the way they make robot mice. They plug up the brain and they manage to tell the rat how to move through basically fucking electricity black magic.

People have said that this must obviously cause the rat pain! It must not like to be moved when it isn't even doing it. But the reality is, the way it works is that they've hijacked the natural brain processes of the rat and reward it by releasing a shit ton of dopamine when it does what they order. To the rat, every time the scientists move it it feels like fucking nirvana. But for all intents and purposes it has zero fucking idea it's been controlled. When the scientist tells it to move right and it does, it just thinks it's doing this off it's own accord.

I don't see how this is relevant to humans.

It's very idealic and oh so liberal (in the classic sense) to think that we have broken free from such silly things as impulses but that's simply not true. We've developed a way to think we have but in reality our brain circuits work in the background without our knowing.

Again, if this is true, how come the majority of men are not rapists and people can escape obesity after a sedentary lifestyle?

If you want to read more about just how much control we have go read about all the experiments they did in the late 19th and 20th century on people with their right and left lobe disconnected.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332324

XSI wrote:In other news, people are rats and rats know exactly what the substances do because they're told about it
Apples and oranges, people knowingly do shit they've always been told is bad. It turns out to be bad. Who do we blame? The people who do shit they know is bad

If you don't want to answer anyone's points, why are you still replying with huge textwalls?
Ah yes that mythical land where humans aren't just mammals with big boy brains.

No you're right were fucking immune to normal brain neuron wiring because we can stop them with pure willpower.

Fuck I ain't even need hormones any more I just will my blood glucose levels to go lower.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332325

Kor wrote:Colonic is living proof of our inability to control our impulses because he keeps typing up big serious replies to people comparing smoking pot to rape and murder.
Murder is a part of humans, we can and will kill under certain conditions, but we don't. You already know the obvious point I'm making but you're trying to ridicule this, why?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332326

In the end it all comes down to this:

I and some others say humans have free will, and are capable of making at least some changes and understanding cause and effect
And Colonic says we're just big animals and we do what the brain says we should do
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332327

ColonicAcid wrote:
XSI wrote:In other news, people are rats and rats know exactly what the substances do because they're told about it
Apples and oranges, people knowingly do shit they've always been told is bad. It turns out to be bad. Who do we blame? The people who do shit they know is bad

If you don't want to answer anyone's points, why are you still replying with huge textwalls?
Ah yes that mythical land where humans aren't just mammals with big boy brains.

No you're right were fucking immune to normal brain neuron wiring because we can stop them with pure willpower.

Fuck I ain't even need hormones any more I just will my blood glucose levels to go lower.
There's a difference between involuntary body functions and conscious decisions, you're comparing insulin production - something you utterly can not control - to saying no to a line of coke, given the chance, I know that you're smart enough to know that this isn't a valid point, and so do you.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332328

Did you miss the part where I wrote that the rats think they're under control? You could do this shit with humans given enough time and money. Just get past the little hitch of it being ethically, morally and legally wrong and you too can have your group of robot humans that still think everything their doing is of their free will.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Wyzack » #332329

You can get addicted to oxycodone by taking it as prescribed by your doctor
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by TheColdTurtle » #332330

Why don't they actually do the drug tests for welfare recipients but only test for 'hard' drugs like crack and heroin etc. But instead of punishing them they just have them try and seek help with it.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Karp » #332331

are you serious

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opioid_ep ... ain_causes

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cause+of+opioid+epidemic

https://www.forbes.com/sites/carmendrah ... a27b0f5773

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/overdoses- ... -under-50/

I could link more but I doubt that you're arguing your view to change other people's views, but i politely request that you take one thing from

The entire opiod epidemic as you know it that is occurring right now was primarily started due to doctors prescribing people on Vicodin and Oxycontin. People that were trusted to be in a position of responsibility and power fucked up and as a result opiates are the leading cause of death for people under 50

This entire thing is not a black and white view in which druggies are bad guys and everyone who opposes them are good guys
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332332

ColonicAcid wrote:Did you miss the part where I wrote that the rats think they're under control? You could do this shit with humans given enough time and money. Just get past the little hitch of it being ethically, morally and legally wrong and you too can have your group of robot humans that still think everything their doing is of their free will.
It's certainly interesting, but I dont think it's right to compare rats, who have much simpler brain functions than humans, to humans. It's certainly a big jump, isn't it?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332333

Xsi i think you are misconstruing his argument

Like my stepdad is a junkie fuck smack addict piece of fucking garbage and would sell his own mother for a needle of heroin

He has "free will" but he is also a piece of shit and will always do the shittiest thing possible because he is a garbage brain

Should he have done drugs in the first place? Probably not but until the government invents a time machine and stops every addict piece of trash from taking their firsr step on the road to addiction we gotta go with whatever is the most efficient way to treat this epidemic
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332334

Wyzack wrote:You can get addicted to oxycodone by taking it as prescribed by your doctor
OMG no everyone knows that drugs prescribed by your doctor are special drugs that are addiction Free!!!!!



Did you know that Elvis used to rant about drug addicts whilst he himself was on over 20 substances prescribed by his doctor ranging from barbs to ampeths.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332335

ColonicAcid wrote:
Wyzack wrote:You can get addicted to oxycodone by taking it as prescribed by your doctor
OMG no everyone knows that drugs prescribed by your doctor are special drugs that are addiction Free!!!!!



Did you know that Elvis used to rant about drug addicts whilst he himself was on over 20 substances prescribed by his doctor ranging from barbs to ampeths.
Didnt elvis die pooping

Thats fucked up!
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332336

That's kind of the thing with free will

People are free to make terrible, bad choices
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Super Aggro Crag
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by Super Aggro Crag » #332337

XSI wrote:That's kind of the thing with free will

People are free to make terrible, bad choices
Does a series of bad choices mean someone is not entitled to exist

Like i support the death penalty but i dont think being a coke fiend should get you hung

Maybe like murder and rape tho those crimes are pretty shitty
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332339

Super Aggro Crag wrote:
ColonicAcid wrote:
Wyzack wrote:You can get addicted to oxycodone by taking it as prescribed by your doctor
OMG no everyone knows that drugs prescribed by your doctor are special drugs that are addiction Free!!!!!



Did you know that Elvis used to rant about drug addicts whilst he himself was on over 20 substances prescribed by his doctor ranging from barbs to ampeths.
Didnt elvis die pooping

Thats fucked up!
Yeah... The person he was actually saying all that was president Nixon at the time in his infamous meeting with him.

He genuinely didn't think he was the same as all the other addicts because a doctor prescribed it to them. Exactly like all of the people who were being overprescribed opiods.
crack is whack but smacks got your back
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XSI
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332340

Nah
That just means he should be getting help in fixing his life and maybe education on how to make better choices in the future

I'm not in favour of punishing people for bad mistakes* they make, I just take offense at the notion that people are just animals who are controlled by instinct
*As long as they only fucked up their own life and not other people's lives
Last edited by XSI on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by TheColdTurtle » #332341

>get extremely wasted to where you are almost blacked out
>Take some heroin because you are at a party and some chads are pressuring you to take it
Uh oh you are addicted, what do you do?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ColonicAcid » #332342

Just will ur way out of it bro.

Remember everyones brains is all the same so if I can do it you can too!!!!!

I mean bmans advice is don't drink alcohol and that's what my grandad told me as he slammed down a double shot of whiskey so what the fuck does he know.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332344

TheColdTurtle wrote:1. >get extremely wasted to where you are almost blacked out [strike 1]
2. >Take some heroin because you are at a party and some chads are pressuring you to take it [strike 2]
Uh oh you are addicted, what do you do?
1. Should have drunk responsibly.
2. You're an adult, no one is forcing you to take the drugs, say no.

It's painfully obvious, during the first strike you were completely sober, but you decide to drink yourself into blacking out on your own accord, KNOWING that doing so will get you in trouble. When you do fall in trouble, you blame your brain for being animalistic, rather than blame yourself for not being an adult.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by TheColdTurtle » #332346

>strike 2
Dude I never have had a drink in my life and I know that people are not at their full brain capacity when blackout/near blackout drunk.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332347

TheColdTurtle wrote:>strike 2
Dude I never have had a drink in my life and I know that people are not at their full brain capacity when blackout/near blackout drunk.
Yeah, shouldn't have drunk in the first place then, you know what I mean.
edit: not even decide not to drink, just dont drink until you get shitfaced, it's not hard.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by TheColdTurtle » #332349

Peer pressure, remember the chads I mentioned earlier?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332351

TheColdTurtle wrote:Peer pressure, remember the chads I mentioned earlier?
Peer Pressure != being forced to drink and you getting force deepthroated by a booze hose.
Even with peer pressure, that is STILL a 100% YOUR CHOICE, no one except you made it.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ShadowDimentio » #332352

Here's something I wondered about in the past. If someone gets dosed by heroin or something causing euphoria without their knowledge, do they get addicted? Or, more specifically, do they attempt to seek out what caused the euphoria?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332353

Depends on the specific drug
I do believe heroin has the addictive effect from the substance, even if you do not know it is heroin
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by TheColdTurtle » #332354

Let's not give someone dying a lifesaving treatment. This Diabetic here doesn't need insulin as well, they did it to themselves. We shouldn't use the AED here on this arrest because they obviously ate one to many hamburgers.
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by XSI » #332357

Now you're just shitposting
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by ShadowDimentio » #332358

XSI wrote:Depends on the specific drug
I do believe heroin has the addictive effect from the substance, even if you do not know it is heroin
What I was thinking was less hinged on the drug but more the effect of being dosed and subsequently craving it

Imagine if one day you were doing your normal thing but randomly, somehow, some way, you're unwittingly dosed with heroin. What would you do?
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Re: 2k17 /pol/

Post by bman » #332359

TheColdTurtle wrote:Let's not give someone dying a lifesaving treatment. This Diabetic here doesn't need insulin as well, they did it to themselves. We shouldn't use the AED here on this arrest because they obviously ate one to many hamburgers.
You know, extremely well, that's not what I'm arguing for.

Instead of arguing against my point you decided to build a big big strawman and pretend that what I'm saying is that we shouldn't give addicts treatment - and not that addicts are in the end responsible for their own predicament.
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