2k17 /pol/

[cedarbridge]

Bottom post of the previous page:

I was talking about what they advertise, not their world views. I kinda lumped alt-right and neo cons together. Sorry if that offended you.

Naw, it's just one of those things that helps to get clarified. Neocons tend to flip flop between 'Buy gold everything is fucked' and 'Gold is useless dollars forever'

anti-communism straight from the cold war

You say that likes its a bad thing

No judgement on my part. They do tend to be very strongly in favour of capitalism and very strongly opposed to communism though, in practically every way they can be. Even modern ones, though they've learned to not show it as much after being told the cold war is over a billion times

It usually manifests more of being anti-Russia than anti-communism. Anything to relive those Cold War glory days™ though constantly poking Putin in the chest and fighting stupid proxy wars over bullshit.

[starmute]

It usually manifests more of being anti-Russia than anti-communism. Anything to relive those Cold War glory days™ though constantly poking Putin in the chest and fighting stupid proxy wars over bullshit.

Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia considering our history with them and how they basically have went from "pseudo" communism to a near fascist state. Honestly it really is a irony considering their state propaganda. (in before angry russians)

Proxy wars are fought due to competition between countries for limited resources. Both territorial instinct and competition are part of the human condition; as a result proxy wars are common.

[ColonicAcid]

i've always said if you think that islam is the end of western civilisation as we know it then you also need to have that same opinion with russia.


because ever since the soviet union has fallen all of russias foreign policy has been "try and become a superpower again" and as soon as they do goodbye west.

[InsaneHyena]

Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia

Every time I think "Starmute can't possibly top the previous retarded thing it said", and every time I turn out to be wrong.

[DemonFiren]

Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia

Every time I think "Starmute can't possibly top the previous retarded thing it said", and every time I turn out to be wrong.

Every time I think "Starmute is easily rivalling Shadowmemes in retardation" and "Hyena might be approaching Craghood in terms of factual correctness" and every time I turn out to be wrong.

[lntigracy]

i've always said if you think that islam is the end of western civilisation as we know it then you also need to have that same opinion with rrussia

One's a cultural war that's very obviously going on right now, the other is a theorized economic and political war that can be avoided by not pissing in Russia's Cheerios at every given opportunity.

I wonder why people care more about the Islam one??????

[bandit]

>implying that the last five decades if not more of world history, and definitely the last two, have not involved various countries collectively pissing in the Middle East's cheerios

[captain sawrge]

it is hot as fuck today

[Grazyn]

Don't worry Firen, you and the French will recreate Charlemagne's holdings and then Russia probably won't have a strong enough military spirit to retake the Baltic states, Belarus, Ukraine and eastern Poland. Or if they do I'd ask if Austria got swole again.

Oh oh oh! Political question time! Why does Russia have Kaliningrad and the surrounding area above Poland and to the west of Lithuania? Is it because Poland needs to hold that land to pass the decision to become the Polish-Lithuanian Republican Commonwealth with permanent claims on all of Lithuania's current holdings? Or is that where Prussian rebels will spawn first because it's under rule of a foreign culture group and Russia would be willing to let them capture the land and form Prussia instead of letting them spawn in Germany because the leader player there would let the rebels siege Berlin to shift the country back to a monarchy with heavy military tendencies? I mean, if Poland had it, the rebels would stomp Poland and tear away the north and west of Poland rather than under Russia's solution, just take Königsberg, rebuild the impossible bridge problem and have to fight Poland for their cores with a measly OPM stack rather than an event spawned doomstack.

Kaliningrad is basically an armed tripwire in the middle of Europe. It's a fortress brimming with nuclear missiles, state-of-the-art SAMs and anti-ship batteries, at the first sign of trouble Kaliningrad will be able to wipe out a good chunk of European forces with conventional power alone before NATO can react and squash it. Nothing says "don't overstep" like a bunch of Iskander missiles aimed at Berlin.

[Incomptinence]

>implying that the last five decades if not more of world history, and definitely the last two, have not involved various countries collectively pissing in the Middle East's cheerios

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

The middle east is made of pissed cheerios from the ground up.

The fertile crescent is important to ancient history and shit but at this point entire place has been a mess for centuries before the ottoman's or post ww1 map drawing ever happened.

Fighting over this shitty region is so pointless I say just get it over with exile all humans from the manifestly unholy land then salt the earth / glass the shit pile so our species expends no more resources on this geographical time waster.

[calzilla1]

>implying that the last five decades if not more of world history, and definitely the last two, have not involved various countries collectively pissing in the Middle East's cheerios

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

The middle east is made of pissed cheerios from the ground up.

The fertile crescent is important to ancient history and shit but at this point entire place has been a mess for centuries before the ottoman's or post ww1 map drawing ever happened.

Fighting over this shitty region is so pointless I say just get it over with exile all humans from the manifestly unholy land then salt the earth / glass the shit pile so our species expends no more resources on this geographical time waster.

>forgetting about oil

[bandit]

careful not to cut yourself on that edge

[Super Aggro Crag]

Why don't we just tell islama that north Korea hates mohammed

[FantasticFwoosh]

Why don't we just tell islama that north Korea hates mohammed

There was actually a rumored plot to hack the missiles of Iraq and North Korea and make them fire at each other on purpose. Might just be inflammatory shitposting i heard around but yeah, cool beans.

[starmute]

Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia

Every time I think "Starmute can't possibly top the previous retarded thing it said", and every time I turn out to be wrong.

Russian autism increases.

it is hot as fuck today

14 C here. 1 C when I woke up

[XSI]

Oh oh oh! Political question time! Why does Russia have Kaliningrad and the surrounding area above Poland and to the west of Lithuania?

In complete honesty, they just sorta took it after WW2 and declared it to be a part of Russia. That's all there is to it. Beat other country, take clay
They've apparently offered to sell it back to Germany at one point but Germany (Read: German politicians worried about having to pander to more voters) didn't want it, so now it's just sorta there and they made the best of it by just building a bunch of army stuff on it
Of course this is not detailed or anything, but I've not really looked into it that much so that's what I can get you on it

[DemonFiren]

Honestly, the only reason to want Königsberg it's not Kalniningrad fuckdammit back is because it was Immanuel Kant's hometown and Hannah Arendt's, I guess.

Aside from that I've been told it's a shithole.

[starmute]

Oh oh oh! Political question time! Why does Russia have Kaliningrad and the surrounding area above Poland and to the west of Lithuania?

In complete honesty, they just sorta took it after WW2 and declared it to be a part of Russia. That's all there is to it. Beat other country, take clay
They've apparently offered to sell it back to Germany at one point but Germany (Read: German politicians worried about having to pander to more voters) didn't want it, so now it's just sorta there and they made the best of it by just building a bunch of army stuff on it
Of course this is not detailed or anything, but I've not really looked into it that much so that's what I can get you on it

You forgot to mention German civilians were held as "reparations labour" by the USSR. 473,013 people have been confirmed killed in soviet camps with 1,905,991 unsolved cases.

That being said I don't remember Kalingrad being offered back to Germany. If I recall Germany asked for it back: Russia said no.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... sberg.html

[InsaneHyena]

Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

[lntigracy]

What ever happened with Poland suing Germany for war reparations when they threatened them after they were refusing to take refugees?

[starmute]

Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

Before being betrayed by the axis

>Invade Poland with Nazis
>Invade Finland
>Invade Baltic states
>Invade Romania

After WW2
>Keep eastern Europe in puppet dictatorships
>Kill Czechoslovakian children trying to cross border during Czech's failed move for independence
soooo much more.


Don't ever pretend that the Russians weren't culpable for their issues.
The United States weren't saints but for fucks sake we didn't do half the shit you did.

Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

[DemonFiren]

Starmute, didn't you get the memo? Russia did nothing wrong, ever.

[cedarbridge]

Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

>unironically defending Soviet slavery

[ColonicAcid]

Anyone in their right mind would be anti-Russia

Every time I think "Starmute can't possibly top the previous retarded thing it said", and every time I turn out to be wrong.

shut your mouth u fucking stereotype

[InsaneHyena]

Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

pseudo-communism

Jesus, please save me

[DemonFiren]

Oh no, those poor germans, working to restore the country they destroyed.

>unironically defending Soviet slavery

more like slav-ery amirite

[lntigracy]

Russia destroyed their own country by allowing psuedo-communism to flourish.

pseudo-communism

Jesus, please save me

it's not REAL communism

[Malkevin]

Apparently even Marx said he philosophy was bullshit.

[starmute]

it's not REAL communism

IMO it actually was "A dictatorship" hiding under the idealism of communism (which can't exist due to human nature).

Its the same as "democracy". There is no current democracies, only republics.

[DemonFiren]

"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017

[ColonicAcid]

>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.



the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...

[Incomptinence]

>implying that the last five decades if not more of world history, and definitely the last two, have not involved various countries collectively pissing in the Middle East's cheerios

Wrong wrong wrong wrong.

The middle east is made of pissed cheerios from the ground up.

The fertile crescent is important to ancient history and shit but at this point entire place has been a mess for centuries before the ottoman's or post ww1 map drawing ever happened.

Fighting over this shitty region is so pointless I say just get it over with exile all humans from the manifestly unholy land then salt the earth / glass the shit pile so our species expends no more resources on this geographical time waster.

>forgetting about oil

Glassing the middle east is my renewable energy inventive.

[DemonFiren]

>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.

http://puu.sh/xISEG/88fcde70af.jpg

the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...

Isn't that fascism?

Compromise?

[ShadowDimentio]

There's only like an inch of difference between Communism and Nazi-ism

[starmute]

"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017

Both do not exist

Democracy would be rule by the masses with no elected representatives

Communism would be from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

[lntigracy]

>virtually all industry is owned by the government and centralised
>"gobbunism ends"
>virtually all industry is owned by figures connected to the government.

http://puu.sh/xISEG/88fcde70af.jpg

the only difference is your ass can get mcdonalds...

Isn't that fascism?

Compromise?

[ShadowDimentio]

There's only like an inch of difference between Communism and Nazi-ism

[ShadowDimentio]

"""True""" democracies don't exist because it's totally unfeasible for people to vote for the constant things that need to be done in governments, it's considered a good year when 80% of a population of a country show up for presidential elections or an equivalent, and those only happen once every few years.

[starmute]

"communism is the same as democracy"
-starmute 2017

Both do not exist

Democracy would be rule by the masses with no elected representatives

Communism would be from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

Communism sounds like a minmaxer's wet dream and surely democracy is impossible outside of small scale if you do not consider representatives to be an extension of the rule of the people? I mean, the people are stupid and the representatives are stupid so that sounds right for democracy.

Well stated.

However, representatives are not the extension of the rule of the people. Its far easier to bribe one person than to bribe everyone with "campaign donations", the wealthy have more influence than some homeless man or the ordinary citizen.

"""True""" democracies don't exist because it's totally unfeasible for people to vote for the constant things that need to be done in governments, it's considered a good year when 80% of a population of a country show up for presidential elections or an equivalent, and those only happen once every few years.

In theory if you had some way to easily compute the information available, you could have a rational consensus government where people could compile and instantly vote based on preferences.

Such technology isn't available.

[Super Aggro Crag]

Jc denton did it in deus ex 2

[starmute]

Jc denton did it in deus ex 2

Not the one I was thinking about but looked it up

Have my

"crag is right again"

[XSI]

I've been talking to a legit communist occasionally, and from what I've learned there is one big lesson about communism
The other guys are doing it wrong. Always. There's a lot of different kinds of communism and they all hate eachother, and most of them hate the soviet union too

Also on Köningsberg, yeah. I've got nothing. Just repeating shit I heard since I've yet to look into it. The area doesn't really have much interest for me past WW2

[ShadowDimentio]

"It wasn't REAL communism!" -Communists describing communist countries

The only lesson people need to learn about communism is that someone always has to get fucked over. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a fast way to make sure nobody is happy* and everyone is equally miserable, not to mention it's an EXTREMELY good reason for everyone with any skills that you might need to, say, fill vital roles in the country to flee, hence why the Berlin Wall was to keep people in, not out.

*Except the people running the show, they always ~mysteriously prosper~

[starmute]

"It wasn't REAL communism!" -Communists describing communist countries

The only lesson people need to learn about communism is that someone always has to get fucked over. "From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs" is a fast way to make sure nobody is happy* and everyone is equally miserable, not to mention it's an EXTREMELY good reason for everyone with any skills that you might need to, say, fill vital roles in the country to flee, hence why the Berlin Wall was to keep people in, not out.

*Except the people running the show, they always ~mysteriously prosper~

Communism only exists as a ideal.

The book Animal farm is a very good book. It not only shows the shitty excesses of communism but it shows capitalism in a unfavorable light as well.

I think the quote
"All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others" applies no matter what society you are in.

Any society will fuck specific people over..
Some societies will fuck over it's populous more than others though. I can say that no idea of government humanity currently has or has had is without it's flaws despite the examples of good and bad governments.

I've been talking to a legit communist occasionally, and from what I've learned there is one big lesson about communism
The other guys are doing it wrong. Always. There's a lot of different kinds of communism and they all hate each other, and most of them hate the soviet union too

Also on Köningsberg, yeah. I've got nothing. Just repeating shit I heard since I've yet to look into it. The area doesn't really have much interest for me past WW2

Not really a supporter of Marxism myself but I'll tell ya that people will defend their ideals to the death even if they know they are wrong. Click spoilers for more details.

Spoiler:

[youtube]Q8NydsXl32s[/youtube]

A long time ago when I was in Jr High I learned "ipse se nihil scire id unum sciat" or that "I know that I know nothing". Keep in mind even though you have prejudices against people (and we all form prejudices against each other), there are some times when you are wrong and the other person is right. I know next to nothing about wood-crafting, about aircraft design or bike maintenance even with "good grades in school" and a college degree.

That being said I'm sure I have a hard head sometimes. Call me out on my shit if I act this way. Then again I'm in Vegas right now and it clouds my judgement a bit so I might be sharing too much about myself.

[starmute]

Oh and going back to that Adam Ruins clip, there's a sense of smug superiority that rubs the wrong way. I don't know if that's by design since that would mean the makers assume the viewers could realise their prejudice, feel confliction and come to the conclusion that the video is right rather than just hit the downvote for causing negative feelings. The rest of it I could probably armchair it and say they are cliche designs although sadly I can only go as far as armchair since I can't tell you what cliche designs aren't in the video rather than work off my own steam:

• normal presenter getting beaten up verbally and physically to relieve the audience after being told by this know-it-all what the facts are/they have misconceptions
• gender divide (majority female audience with audience surrogate?), same sex beating up same sex isn't as much of a contrast and it may also be tying into common concept of woman weak, man stwong to not turn people off either being unstimulating mentally or repelling for playing into a bad stereotype (or again, majority female audience might be playing in on this one, give the audience a surrogate because no-one wants to see gastropod the stinky green alien winning or being right when no-one is even close to being gastropod the stinky green alien, it's like how in Futurama, Fry was the audience surrogate exploring everything and coincidentally, an important word, the writing got shit about the time he became familiar with the future), feel free to hate me on this one starmute, I'm trying to stay gender neutral but this was the conclusion I came to after I took a very strong dislike to muh man being beaten up by da woman of evil
• quick reference mentions just like a paper I had to do for university! making it appear professional (although that is a tad misleading because this isn't a paper, no-one is using this as research material, youtube is not responsible for making sure this material they are hosting isn't lying or misinterpreting findings in the reference material and without looking up the reference material, I can't even say they are reliable with how they're presented in the video, although papers do suffer a flaw of needing to look at the references to not consider a paper founded on them to be baseless, I mean if you're being paid enough)
• subtle (but forced) facial and verbal tone changes

Okay I'm going to stop there. They know what they're doing. If I put it one way, it's by the book but lacks sincerity. If I put it another way, it's manipulative in a way that scares me if they have a concerning message to push. And if I find a third way to put it, they come to a mostly right but simplistic conclusion for a video designed for amusement rather than to provoke thought, however the serious end doesn't justify the jokey means.

Three points

Nobody likes watching a man beating up a woman or a woman beating up a man. Women complain it's abuse, men complain it's some kind of female superiority complex or whatever.
I'll admit its a crummy video but it makes some valid points that I can't find fault in.

Last point and I like to stress this: Vegas really affects my judgement and I shouldn't post college humor stuff ever.

[XSI]

The vid is right about the point it tries to make, but it makes it in a really poor way

You do not change people's minds by arguing with them
People change their own minds if they have access to the information, look into the information and have no pressure to change their viewpoints about something. This is why "Here's a study about this which brings up interesting points, you might like it" is more effective than "You're wrong because scientists agree with me and I can prove it with this link (Insert link to near-onion tier website here)"

[starmute]

Nuuu. Post college humor stuff. Just not that weird Adam Ruins thing, it even seems to attract everyone to post politics in the comments and everyone calls Adam an SJW and then aaall the buzzwords appear.

Seriously, I get too excited and start being too friendly. In 2004 I was doxxed by being stupid. Never trust people on the internet, share pictures or video.

[Incomptinence]

Amateur hour guilt-triping.

Oh nooo the land was stolen!

Why not think about something like how the decomposing massacred natives have had some of their biomass slowly incorporated into food crops due to natural processes and your fat ass contains stolen nutrients Adam?

Might as well eat soylent red at this point.

[ShadowDimentio]

I was born here, I have just as much claim to the land as any native.

[cedarbridge]

I was born here, I have just as much claim to the land as any native.

Right of conquest.

[XSI]

Being born somewhere doesn't necessarily give you the right to claim that land
But it is a pretty big advantage and definitely helps