2k17 /pol/

[ShadowDimentio]

Bottom post of the previous page:

There's nothing the EU can do to Britain that won't hurt them worse, unless there's some mumblefuck like Corbyn on the other side that'll sign anything they ask him to.

[ColonicAcid]

Uh.

I don't think you quite understand how the UK benefited from the EU. It wasn't because we export that much. It's because we were the financial capital of Europe. If a company wanted to expand into the EU they would come to London.

That's no longer the case. The EU fucking over the UK out of spite would achieve nothing other than one party coming out absolutely fucked, and that country would 100% be the UK. All of the EU combined just has far too much economic power for the UK to ever even dent it.

As I've said though, doing that shit would achieve absolutely nothing. Trade deals only work when both parties are prospering. A trade deal with a broken economy because the EU wanted to teach the UK a lesson would be further detrimental to the EU.


Don't even think for a second that the UK was a fundamental part of the EU. The UK wasn't even a founding member, and it took a lot of convincing for them to join. It's an economic and political deal mainly between France, Germany and the lowland countries. Everyone else is an afterthought.

[ShadowDimentio]

>UK is the financial capital of Europe
>UK can't dent the EU's finances

Pick one

The EU has a lot of money, but it's all focused in three countries: France, Germany, and Britain.

If Britain leaves, the EU loses 1/3rd of its money supply, and if they act vindictive and impose tariffs or whatever they lose their market there too as Britain just trades with everywhere that's not the EU instead, such as the US, currently run by a guy who hates the EU and would certainly throw favorable trade at a Britain that just got done leaving the EU with a bloody wound.

It'd be akin to a house losing one of the three pillars supporting its weight. If one broke, the other two have to take all the weight it supported or the whole building collapses. That's the EU right now.

[ColonicAcid]

If the UK leaves the companies leave. Simple as that. It's simple economics. That's why France and Germany are heavily courting the big boy corporations so they can set up their main office in Paris or Berlin.


Economically, Brexit hits Britain and it hits it hard. The writing is literally on the fucking wall buddy, the pound has dropped far harder, and far faster than the Euro has. And it's still going.

But the economic benefits of the EU were never in dispute, unless you're one of those cretins who actually believed that the UK was sending more money than it received. Brexit is an entirely political motivated movement. It's about "nameless, faceless bureaucrats making laws for the helpless english people." Which is complete bollocks as the EU is more democratic than the UK ever was or will be.

[ShadowDimentio]

Any company with a drop of foresight would be able to see that the EU's economic power is shrinking-- fast. The EU, at its founding in 1980, comprised of 30% of the global economy. Now, it comprises only half that, and is still dropping at a very steady rate.

Why the hell would any business jump from a Britain that's fleeing a sinking ship and escaping to the the entire rest of the world market to a EU whose market is dying? There's no reason to, there's more trade, more opportunity, and more profit on the other side.

[XSI]

If the UK leaves the companies leave. Simple as that.

Thats not how it works though. They'll only go away if other countries offer a better deal, which is why many companies already have their 'headquarters' and main offices in a tax haven.
With that said, the UK remains a large market, has its own mostly steady currency(Especially compared to euros), and London specifically, like all cities who try to attract business, is very generous to these companies to keep them there.

The only things that would actually seriously affect this is either
1. Tariffs, which goes against the EU's neo-liberal free trade everywhere ideals(Implying they have consistent ideals anyway)
2. Other cities/countries inside the EU offering new, better terms than London

The first seems unlikely, as that would hurt both economies and that's probably not a good idea for anyone. That said, the EU is batshit insane and stupid enough to do it just to spite Britain. The second seems more likely, and that was going to happen anyway if they consistently offered these better terms.
In order to stay in business in the UK, all those companies will still have their regional division in the UK. Just because managing logistics from an entirely different country is a pain in the ass and inefficient.
When McDonalds sells a burger in Britain, tax is still paid to Britain. Even if their headquarters is somewhere completely different. If a lawyer takes a case in London, it's still going to be paid in pounds, with British taxes on it. The headquarters of a company don't matter, and the main offices only care about keeping the costs low. If London is a good choice for them and not noticably worse than Frankfurt or somewhere else on mainland Europe, then they're going to stay in London. The majority of any economy is the smaller businesses, and those aren't going anywhere because a Welsh pub can't exactly move to Denmark, and they don't want to anyway.

The market will react violently to it because the market reacts violently to everything. Doesn't really mean much, it will recover, just like it did right after the brexit vote.
So what I'm saying is
Unless someone happened to completely destroy the local British economy and all industry, thus making you completely rely on the global economy, you're going to be fine
But that never happened, right?

Spoiler:

[Luke Cox]

I could blither on about why I think Brexit is a good idea for the UK, but this guy does a much more eloquent job of it than me:

[youtube]j0pwXLtvt2w[/youtube]

[XSI]

Pretty much what that video said.
The EU is centralization and attempting to consolidate power

Which nobody wants except the ones who get that power- So the bureaucrats and Germany

[ShadowDimentio]

It's about "nameless, faceless bureaucrats making laws for the helpless english people." Which is complete bollocks as the EU is more democratic than the UK ever was or will be.

[laughtrack]

[XSI]

Have you seen their election?
Of course the EU looks democratic and fair to them, they had to choose between 1984 and a communist
Right back to absolute monarchy would look fair compared to that

[ShadowDimentio]

I watched the whole election, and it could have been much worse.

[Soviet anthem throbs in the distance]

[Luke Cox]

Granted, it's probably the second worse case scenario. The Conservatives do plenty of stupid shit but they are nowhere close to the American GOP. The DUP is a living caricature of the GOP. Best case scenario would have been Labour getting its head out of its ass and fielding a candidate in favor of a hard Brexit on the grounds that it's a massive benefit to the working class. Barring that, the Conservatives winning a majority would have ended up best. Their policies that were laid out were batshit insane, but the UK cannot afford to go soft on Brexit. Hopefully the punch to the gut will show the Conservatives that they're going to have to roll back their more insane stances.

[XSI]

When your meme candidate makes more sense than the established party candidates, you know you're dealing with a shitty situation

[Grazyn]

When your meme candidate makes more sense than the established party candidates, you know you're dealing with a shitty situation

It has been the norm for our headmin elections for a while now

[XSI]

Elect the memes then. Clearly they're doing something right

[Professor Hangar]

When your meme candidate makes more sense than the established party candidates, you know you're dealing with a shitty situation

That's basically what just happened last year. I think it also happened in Iceland.

[DemonFiren]

So, what happened?

[Professor Hangar]

Lord Buckethead can be patient, he ran against Margaret Thatcher too.

[DemonFiren]

Lord Buckethead can be patient, he ran against Margaret Thatcher too.

I thought Cosmic just said that?

[Professor Hangar]

Don't you use your fancy earth logic on me.

[Wyzack]

Fuck it, I'd vote for him

[ShadowDimentio]

The good news is that if Brexit is in jeopardy then Farrage will rise from his political grave and lead the UK to the holy land

[InsaneHyena]

http://www.cnbc.com/2017/06/12/nigel-fa ... ports.html

Say it with me - Lord Farage.

[ShadowDimentio]

Oh SHIT, welp looks like all our worries are over. We Brexit boys.

[InsaneHyena]

Coalition with DUP is a gift that keeps on giving. Election literally couldn't have gone better.

[Professor Hangar]

My current attitude is that the best outcome is the one that makes the most politicians cry.

[Luke Cox]

I still don't like the DUP one bit but it looks like they're good for exactly one thing

[XSI]

My current attitude is that the best outcome is the one that makes the most politicians cry.

This is the right attitude to have on politics, really

[ShadowDimentio]

Farrage makes politicians cry so this outcome is great

[FantasticFwoosh]

The good news is that if Brexit is in jeopardy then Farrage will rise from his political grave and lead the UK to the holy land

The optimistic thing is that Farage already believes that the UK is already the holy land, hence his initial reaction to try and defend it.

[ThanatosRa]

That guy reminds me of Vermin Supreme.

[ThanatosRa]

I just imagined foreign policy and diplomacy between Vermin Supreme and Lord Buckethead.

[XSI]

Can't be much worse than what's going on now

[ThanatosRa]

It would probably be better.

[Luke Cox]

Fuck the outcomes of democratic elections amirite?

[ShadowDimentio]

Well. Unfortunately srs politicks has to come back.

Apparently """hundreds""" of people were outside downing street, chanting May must go!

Kensington town hall was "stormed"/probably too many people for the police to turn away or too nonviolent use water cannons on (there were a lot of expensive cameras though, so I guess the journalists made up half of it).

Some mumblefuck lefty twitter verified journalist doxxed her and told everyone to storm the building (peacefully) and demand she resign

[XSI]

There is

Its the one that has quit and is doing something else

[Professor Hangar]

Just as well the readership of newspapers is plummeting.

Nobody's fooled that an appliance fire is the only thing that went wrong. The entire building went up like a Roman Candle, and the single stairway was surrounded by gas pipelines. The entire design and construction was a deathtrap, even before the flammable cladding added by the Tory council solely to make it look nicer (that they cheaped out on by 5000 pounds) and apparently the building has sprinklers, but they didn't go off during the fire.

One weird case where the USA actually has better and more strictly enforced safety regulations, despite conservative insistence that all this red tape just gets in the way of entrepreneurship and innovation. (IE; rich people getting richer)

[Screemonster]

Considering UK building regs officially say that each individual apartment in a tower block is supposed to be self-contained to a degree that a simple appliance fire wouldn't exceed, even if that guy's fridge did start the fire he's not responsible for anything more than gutting his own property. The fact that it spread beyond that, and so rapidly, is all on the building owners.

[Incomptinence]

witch hunting a guy

not over arson charges

over shitty fridge

oh look how he is capable of having a beer how inhuman how malicious

stupid tory rag

[Luke Cox]

Are they seriously blaming the fridge guy now? There is no way in hell that building was up to code. A fucking fridge fire wouldn't spread that fast or out of control.

[Incomptinence]

he put too many chillis in the fridge it spat supa hot fire

[Malkevin]

Also also, apparently the fire had potentially claimed more lives than terrorism since 2000.

And atleast this tragedy wasn't caused by a muslim!
Oh hang on...

Well. Unfortunately srs politicks has to come back.

Apparently """hundreds""" of people were outside downing street, chanting May must go!

Kensington town hall was "stormed"/probably too many people for the police to turn away or too nonviolent use water cannons on (there were a lot of expensive cameras though, so I guess the journalists made up half of it).

Some mumblefuck lefty twitter verified journalist doxxed her and told everyone to storm the building (peacefully) and demand she resign

Is it really doxxing to work out that she lives at 10 Downing Street and works for the Conservative Party?

[Screemonster]

meanwhile on twitter

[Grazyn]

Is it really doxxing to work out that she lives at 10 Downing Street and works for the Conservative Party?

DELETE THIS

[FantasticFwoosh]

Half and half about manslaughter, in the face of the authorities that shouldn't have pinched pennies and are more culpable it's still early days, the death count still isn't even established. If the taxi-driver actually did something to exaggerate the fire (putting the fridge up against the window, cultural thing or just coincindental) or criminal intent the fire apparently couldn't spread past the metal plating, but spread throughout the cheap rigging which is said to be banned in America for flammability.

It's also been mentioned that it was a bit of a trap for the local poorer residents of the area in a predominately quite rich community, whether to claim insurance, ethnically cleanse and clear the land remains some shady motives as it would not be outside the realm of possibility that criminals were paid. I personally thought the footage looked too sparkly to really be a mechanical fire like that, but what do i know about pyrochemistry? But also i mean they seem pretty sure it was a fridge so outside of a set-up it looks like a accident.

- Ether is a flammable liquid used for keeping fridges cool, but i don't know how bad a fridge would have to be to actively leak the stuff out like that unless it was deliberately sabotaged with its back to the rigging.

I wonder if Soros is having a field day, (*puts on obligatory tin foil hat*) destablising the government from slightly globalist but brexit (atleast what's begrudgingly protrayed) tories and passing the crown over to 'Red Jez' who has no gurantees and naive stance about nuclear deterrants through helping pay off some activist protestors besides those people already and understandably upset and already protesting to inflate this to a national level.

Im no fan of the tories, but labour at the moment are pretty scary, in the wake of the grenfield tower fire Jeremy Corbyn wanted to reposess houses 'to house the residents' from the rich, and while i do find that slightly amusing and well intentioned, you can't seriously expect that the people & parties that own those homes won't try to take legal action or be offended. Say if for example some saudi arabian got their back up about it? (not a fan of them but there's no need make more enemies than needed) and minor diplomatic details like that will put us in a poorer global light. Hand the country over to a terrorist sympathising naive pacifist communist. lots of 'ist's.

[Professor Hangar]

Half and half about manslaughter, in the face of the authorities that shouldn't have pinched pennies and are more culpable it's still early days, the death count still isn't even established. If the taxi-driver actually did something to exaggerate the fire (putting the fridge up against the window, cultural thing or just coincindental) or criminal intent the fire apparently couldn't spread past the metal plating, but spread throughout the cheap rigging which is said to be banned in America for flammability.

It's also been mentioned that it was a bit of a trap for the local poorer residents of the area in a predominately quite rich community, whether to claim insurance, ethnically cleanse and clear the land remains some shady motives as it would not be outside the realm of possibility that criminals were paid. I personally thought the footage looked too sparkly to really be a mechanical fire like that, but what do i know about pyrochemistry? But also i mean they seem pretty sure it was a fridge so outside of a set-up it looks like a accident.

- Ether is a flammable liquid used for keeping fridges cool, but i don't know how bad a fridge would have to be to actively leak the stuff out like that unless it was deliberately sabotaged with its back to the rigging.

I wonder if Soros is having a field day, (*puts on obligatory tin foil hat*) destablising the government from slightly globalist but brexit (atleast what's begrudgingly protrayed) tories and passing the crown over to 'Red Jez' who has no gurantees and naive stance about nuclear deterrants through helping pay off some activist protestors besides those people already and understandably upset and already protesting to inflate this to a national level.

Im no fan of the tories, but labour at the moment are pretty scary, in the wake of the grenfield tower fire Jeremy Corbyn wanted to reposess houses 'to house the residents' from the rich, and while i do find that slightly amusing and well intentioned, you can't seriously expect that the people & parties that own those homes won't try to take legal action or be offended. Say if for example some saudi arabian got their back up about it? (not a fan of them but there's no need make more enemies than needed) and minor diplomatic details like that will put us in a poorer global light. Hand the country over to a terrorist sympathising naive pacifist communist. lots of 'ist's.

Yeah, this is all complete nuttery. What's happening is that rich sociopathy and utterly disregard for the lives of anyone but themselves and their mates is finally coming back to roost, and a disaster like this is inevitable when you have no consequences for complete negligence. There's a reason fire safety laws and regulations exist, and it's because this shit used to happen all the time.

There are no paid protesters, at best you get Twitter bots and astroturfers. At best there might be a couple of provocateurs among the crowd wanting to throw bricks and give the cops an excuse to murder protestors, but you don't even get those now the cops realise the government wants to cut their pay too.

Never assume malice when incompetence will do, but malicious incompetence is perfectly plausible.

Edit: Although just to be a complete hypocrite, rumours are the government has put gag orders on the media and is moving bodies by night trying to cover up the real death toll of the fire.

[FantasticFwoosh]

*cough* london fire caused by chip pan *cough*

Ban kitchen goods, we will cook our meals over log and coal oven fires after the child-labour' labour mines have been opened again in Jeremy Corbyn's blast to the past vision of some kind of cold Cuba. Keeping himself warm on a cold winter's evening with a coal fire heated hot bath while smoking a cuban cigar and then getting in a nuclear crisis with America over one thing or another.

Nobody would openly, admit to being hired to make a extra amount of noise especially when some ex-residents and surrounding neighbours (and out of townies) are already motivated to do it for free, waving some money under the noses of people strapped for cash wouldn't make them out to be saints either in all honesty. and i wasn't stating it was everyone

[FantasticFwoosh]

Don't forget that london is particularly notorious for shitty landlords who cram illegal immigrants, students and anybody else into illegal or overpopulated accommodation. Hopefully it will trigger a city side crackdown on the problem in-case it is a arsonistic attack because it could happen again at literally any time. Thats atleast the brightest bit of silver lining besides checking standards across the board on turfing out the slumlords.

A lot more of a long term fix than just siezing houses and then risk squatters and reprecussions for it.

[FantasticFwoosh]

Jeremy Corybyn put out a call to seize houses from the rich in the area as a response.

[ShadowDimentio]

Our boy Comrade Corbyn suggested that rich people's houses near where that tower burned down be claimed for habitation by the poor bastards whose house burned down.

[youtube]7r4ZlEQWN8o[/youtube]