/tg/Station 13

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Admins try not to ban over fucking anything challenge
Users try not to be constant assholes challenge
(Impossible)

Goddammit I wish we distanced ourself from the cesspit that is 4chan holy shit.

inb4 "we added they/them look what happened".

I think you should be allowed to call people little homie gay ass but only IC

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 2:30 pm

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 12:42 pm Ya'll here acting like the racist/transphobe is not going to fight back and is somehow civil enough not to use a weapon.

If you attack someone, they fight back. That is why you do not initiate a fight unless you think life or limb is at stake.

So? Don't start a fight that you can't win. If you throw a punch you must be ready to commit to the consequences of your actions.

Yes. That is what I am saying.

You might lose.

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Fri Sep 16, 2022 10:50 am If you intended to be bigoted, were infact being bigoted, but your speech falls under something where if MSO ruled it bigoted he'd have to confront the fact he's got a bit of the ol' bigotry running through his own veins then you're pretty much golden, as I don't expect such ephiphanies any time soon.

I do not think you understand just how close I have gotten to angrily blacklisting everybody (yourself included) who makes this argument that because I do not follow your absolutism view on words, I myself am a bigot.

This has the same issue that 'calling everybody who argues nuance in sex offenses pedophiles' has and you should fucking know better.

Danger! Crystal hyperstructure integrity faltering! Integrity: 26%

Rohen_Tahir wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 9:23 pm Danger! Crystal hyperstructure integrity faltering! Integrity: 26%

WHERE'S THE FUCKING NITROGEN

i sincerely do not believe mso is bigoted based on what ive seen of his conduct and attitude since joining the tgstation admin team

but i do believe that if a word solely exists for no other reason than to discriminate or dehumanize people, and is actively used to do so, then it becomes incredibly difficult to separate the usage of that word from said intent

the simple fact is that the more we allow and permit people throwing around slurs (obviously outside of conversations about them like this one), and the more cases where we find ways to justify and exempt their use, the more emboldened people are to push the envelope about how far they can use them, and the more of a signal we send to people who might be affected by said words that the people in charge of tgstation are willing to tolerate them

for lack of a better phrase, every admin or headmin or host judgement like this seriously risks pushing the overton window back towards us being a community that is okay with bigotry and racism, and even if we still continue to ban people who use these words in a blatantly -ismistic way we're letting people get away with things we ideally shouldn't

i obviously can't speak for most of the admin team but to quote an above poster, "little homie gay ass" isn't something i'd personally note for, because, personally, i think using "gay" as an insult has ceased to be a word that exists purely to discriminate against people. i don't think people shouldn't be allowed to be edgy, or crude, or anything; i always envisioned ss13 as being adult swim levels of mature. there are so many ways for people to be verbal shitheads ic and ooc that aren't even close to being as bad as calling someone a tranny, and while obviously a lot of people out there will get offended by some of it, theres a difference between being offensive and being the kind of seriously deep-cutting, actually hurtful offensive these words carry with them

the point is, every time we rule that x case of using tranny or the n-word is allowed, we're setting more precedent for their general usage, and making tgstation a worse place for people who are sincerely and genuinely suffering from the sorts of mindsets and cultures that propagate their usage

i know arguing for a hard word filter is a lost cause, and honestly i don't even know if i'd want one because, again, we shouldnt ban people for talking about the words, but the undeniable fact is that we will and possibly already are hitting the point where we have to choose between what's more important, the mindset of "we absolutely never ban any words under any circumstances for free speech" or the goal of tgstation being a good and welcoming place for a lot of potential players (and even future admins and coders) who rightfully refuse to associate with a community that protects the use of purely hateful and bigoted vernacular

And I thought you guys were just about ready to let this drop.

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:17 pm the simple fact is that the more we allow and permit people throwing around slurs (obviously outside of conversations about them like this one), and the more cases where we find ways to justify and exempt their use, the more emboldened people are to push the envelope about how far they can use them, and the more of a signal we send to people who might be affected by said words that the people in charge of tgstation are willing to tolerate them

Hey, guess what, this works both ways. What I've been seeing here, can also be described as pushing the envelope of what word associations and behavior can be banned and persecuted. There is just never an end to this, once you're done with the obvious words, you go into things like "micro-aggressions" and abstract hints i.e. don't like the black Arielle guess you're a nazi, you just can't stop yourself from fucking it over completely. God bless that MSO appears to see it this way as well, and using his weight to push back on the whole brave-new-world frenzy.

And of course, I do agree with you in principle, let's not be dickheads to everyone. Some people have it tough, and it's a bastard move to go kicking them while they're down. But what you are always pushing for, is having every off-the-cuff remark be put on the golden scale against the face and injustice of every group that could be offended by it, you're turning from well meaning, bright people into overbearing, authoritarian mommies with a giant stick up their asses.

Like, there is this jackass in the other appeal that thought it was clever and funny to refer to him performing a search on his department members as "rape", and it was a single remark. Get's questioned two minutes later "hey, why are you being creepy, huh? Do you like beating women huh?" like jesus, yes it is conceivably immature and stupid, but to paint every fucking slip of the tongue like you're the scum of the earth, abusing women and minorities as a sport, this is just you being an obnoxious, controlling freak.

So if MSO decides that you were going overboard with your 1984 agenda and decides to turn it down a notch, it doesn't mean that he is Hitler and you don't have to go fly off the handle and cry "FUCKING BIGOT!!" at him, OK? Maybe having just a sliver of restraint and modesty will work out much better for you and everyone else in the end!


With sincere regards
-BONERMASTER

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:22 pm And I thought you guys were just about ready to let this drop.

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:17 pm the simple fact is that the more we allow and permit people throwing around slurs (obviously outside of conversations about them like this one), and the more cases where we find ways to justify and exempt their use, the more emboldened people are to push the envelope about how far they can use them, and the more of a signal we send to people who might be affected by said words that the people in charge of tgstation are willing to tolerate them

Hey, guess what, this works both ways. What I've been seeing here, can also be described as pushing the envelope of what word associations and behavior can be banned and persecuted. There is just never an end to this, once you're done with the obvious words, you go into things like "micro-aggressions" and abstract hints i.e. don't like the black Arielle guess you're a nazi, you just can't stop yourself from fucking it over completely. God bless that MSO appears to see it this way as well, and using his weight to push back on the whole brave-new-world frenzy.

And of course, I do agree with you in principle, let's not be dickheads to everyone. Some people have it tough, and it's a bastard move to go kicking them while they're down. But what you are always pushing for, is having every off-the-cuff remark be put on the golden scale against the face and injustice of every group that could be offended by it, you're turning from well meaning, bright people into overbearing, authoritarian mommies with a giant stick up their asses.

Like, there is this jackass in the other appeal that thought it was clever and funny to refer to him performing a search on his department members as "rape", and it was a single remark. Get's questioned two minutes later "hey, why are you being creepy, huh? Do you like beating women huh?" like jesus, yes it is conceivably immature and stupid, but to paint every fucking slip of the tongue like you're the scum of the earth, abusing women and minorities as a sport, this is just you being an obnoxious, controlling freak.

So if MSO decides that you were going overboard with your 1984 agenda and decides to turn it down a notch, it doesn't mean that he is Hitler and you don't have to go fly off the handle and cry "FUCKING BIGOT!!" at him, OK? Maybe having just a sliver of restraint and modesty will work out much better for you and everyone else in the end!


With sincere regards
-BONERMASTER

i dont know how to tell you this but if you think that admins wanting less genuinely hateful slurs is 1984 then you have a severe case of underestimating the average intelligence of our admin team, anyone who actually thinks the way you're describing would not be an admin on the grounds of not playing ss13 long enough because we are an 18+ server that tolerates being huge douches to one another

nobody wants ss13 to become a digg hugbox we just want to not become a community thats openly inviting to the kinds of shitheads who happily go around throwing tranny and nigger at people in casual conversation

here look ill make you a funny illustration



this is the only standard anybody is asking and if this would make ss13 a dystopian anti-fun hellhole then i dont know what to say

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:28 am

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 11:22 pm And I thought you guys were just about ready to let this drop.

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Sat Sep 17, 2022 10:17 pm the simple fact is that the more we allow and permit people throwing around slurs (obviously outside of conversations about them like this one), and the more cases where we find ways to justify and exempt their use, the more emboldened people are to push the envelope about how far they can use them, and the more of a signal we send to people who might be affected by said words that the people in charge of tgstation are willing to tolerate them

Hey, guess what, this works both ways. What I've been seeing here, can also be described as pushing the envelope of what word associations and behavior can be banned and persecuted. There is just never an end to this, once you're done with the obvious words, you go into things like "micro-aggressions" and abstract hints i.e. don't like the black Arielle guess you're a nazi, you just can't stop yourself from fucking it over completely. God bless that MSO appears to see it this way as well, and using his weight to push back on the whole brave-new-world frenzy.

And of course, I do agree with you in principle, let's not be dickheads to everyone. Some people have it tough, and it's a bastard move to go kicking them while they're down. But what you are always pushing for, is having every off-the-cuff remark be put on the golden scale against the face and injustice of every group that could be offended by it, you're turning from well meaning, bright people into overbearing, authoritarian mommies with a giant stick up their asses.

Like, there is this jackass in the other appeal that thought it was clever and funny to refer to him performing a search on his department members as "rape", and it was a single remark. Get's questioned two minutes later "hey, why are you being creepy, huh? Do you like beating women huh?" like jesus, yes it is conceivably immature and stupid, but to paint every fucking slip of the tongue like you're the scum of the earth, abusing women and minorities as a sport, this is just you being an obnoxious, controlling freak.

So if MSO decides that you were going overboard with your 1984 agenda and decides to turn it down a notch, it doesn't mean that he is Hitler and you don't have to go fly off the handle and cry "FUCKING BIGOT!!" at him, OK? Maybe having just a sliver of restraint and modesty will work out much better for you and everyone else in the end!


With sincere regards
-BONERMASTER

i dont know how to tell you this but if you think that admins wanting less genuinely hateful slurs is 1984 then you have a severe case of underestimating the average intelligence of our admin team, anyone who actually thinks the way you're describing would not be an admin on the grounds of not playing ss13 long enough because we are an 18+ server that tolerates being huge douches to one another

nobody wants ss13 to become a digg hugbox we just want to not become a community thats openly inviting to the kinds of shitheads who happily go around throwing tranny and nigger at people in casual conversation

here look ill make you a funny illustration



this is the only standard anybody is asking and if this would make ss13 a dystopian anti-fun hellhole then i dont know what to say

I think that image would be more accurate if instead of drawing hard black lines, you were to create a nice diffusing gradient between the categories of words. That's how ocean water works in real life, you know? Internal currents have the potential to swirl the "layers" of water, up, down, and around. It might never reach homogeneity and still could persist that sort of "layered" effect. Yet, the boundary between layers is never crystal clear, and instead melds at those junction points.

If you were to draw each layer bleeding into each other, you might get a better picture of how former administrations actually handled this concept, and maybe how future administrations will handle that as well. Definitely more-so for future administrations.

I think we should ban all Cis white people

I think we should ban all Trans white people

I think we should ban all people

I have said before and i will say it again, tgstation's downfall began when we started allowing people into our community.

Everyone in this thread will not respond to mso directly because it's like yelling at the queen of England

They will send you to jail or fine you money

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:18 am Everyone in this thread will not respond to mso directly because it's like yelling at the queen of England

They will send you to jail or fine you money

what if i told you i did respond to mso directly

what would you do then with that information?

would you quiver in your boots?

would you rise to the challenge?

your time is running out, shadowmist909

it's time for action

san7890 wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 6:32 am
what if i told you i did respond to mso directly

what would you do then with that information?

would you quiver in your boots?

would you rise to the challenge?

your time is running out, shadowmist909

it's time for action

You are very right san7980 now with this new found information I shall act upon it.

I challenge MSO to the #2014ALSIcebucketchallenge #icebucketchallenge if you refuse then that proves you are indeed not ice cold

nianjiilical wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:28 am
i dont know how to tell you this but if you think that admins wanting less genuinely hateful slurs is 1984 then you have a severe case of underestimating the average intelligence of our admin team, anyone who actually thinks the way you're describing would not be an admin on the grounds of not playing ss13 long enough because we are an 18+ server that tolerates being huge douches to one another

nobody wants ss13 to become a digg hugbox we just want to not become a community thats openly inviting to the kinds of shitheads who happily go around throwing tranny and nigger at people in casual conversation

here look ill make you a funny illustration



this is the only standard anybody is asking and if this would make ss13 a dystopian anti-fun hellhole then i dont know what to say

>the bottom tier is mostly to do with insulting race and gender identity
>cannot possibly be reclaimed because they're connected at the hip to insulting
>people think using words like this is ok in any context

I would basically say the t-word has become the n-word of the trans community, and don't expect it to be reclaimed any time soon, because you cannot expect an entire community to change the perception within a few decades. Look at how the n-word is still known as a slur for blacks despite black people using it among themselves.

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Sun Sep 18, 2022 3:14 am I think we should ban all Cis white people

Homophobe activity

this situation will never be resolved because it's the only time admins get to use the n-word and the t-word without getting in trouble. it's their release valve. this is all a bunch of pageantry.

Why would you need a DJ in the discord moderator team

would anybody like to talk about starsector

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

Not really no

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

Would YOU like to talk about the LORD?

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

This was my game of the month for a while, got a massive colony and some other smaller ones to support it. Wandered off to go exploring. Kept getting raided because I had so many AI's on my mega planet. Realized I put my world too far away from the core to really be as productive as it should be. Lost interest and didn't finish out the big REDACTED quest or the other minor quests.

Now they've revised something and STORY POINTS? I don't know. I keep meaning to go back but also feel like waiting for more updates will only improve my experience.

My favorite part of the game was probably when I was running around in the apogee with the fleet from the starter quest just trying to make a living and not realizing how badly I was messing up by selling to the black market. I went on a "haha paragons and massive laser beams everywhere" bit, then figured that other things were solid too and if I played like a coward I didn't need as much shielding. I typically enjoyed having faster flux dumps than higher flux reserves and no clue if that was right or wrong.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

goated game, great mods, wish it got updated more often

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

65 mods in my modlist, deployment points set to 9000 average, requires a reboot of the game every 3 hours, full restart of my PC after 6 hours if I'm being a loser on the weekends or some shit
worth it? yeah ofc

rocking people's shit with a pre-nerf (4 large missile mounts) Purcellyra missile battlecruiser from United Aurora Federation + those 4 large mounts being dedicated to Tartarus LRMs from Superweapons Arsenal (ripperoni that mod)
using Exotica tech to have a hacked missile forge on the ship, reloads my 96 missiles for each launcher every 48 seconds
96 tartarus missiles a launcher x 4 launchers = 384 nuclear EM missiles total, I have more nukes on that ship than all of china and I can get em *all* back in under a minute with my missile autoforge

fast missile racks, 4 charges, fastest charge speed I can get it to + spamming it = a salvo of 72 tartarus LRMS from each of the four launchers firing their triple volley 6 times (first time + 4 charges + 1 charge regained while spamming the 4)

2050 energy damage on impact from a tartarus + 650 energy in an AOE, 300 EMP damage on impact + 1200 EMP in an AOE = hey check out how hard I can nuke this orbital station/battleship/anything really the killfeed is racking up like nobody's business

Did I mention that the Purcellyra also is a capital despite having a base speed of like 105???? I've got it to 120 with Exotica's infernalis drives upgrade
can't catch me, I outrange you since I'm missile spamming with 6000su range Tartarus LRMs, those shits hit like an actual fucking truck, et cetera.
we're gaming.

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:34 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

This was my game of the month for a while, got a massive colony and some other smaller ones to support it. Wandered off to go exploring. Kept getting raided because I had so many AI's on my mega planet. Realized I put my world too far away from the core to really be as productive as it should be. Lost interest and didn't finish out the big REDACTED quest or the other minor quests.

Now they've revised something and STORY POINTS? I don't know. I keep meaning to go back but also feel like waiting for more updates will only improve my experience.

My favorite part of the game was probably when I was running around in the apogee with the fleet from the starter quest just trying to make a living and not realizing how badly I was messing up by selling to the black market. I went on a "haha paragons and massive laser beams everywhere" bit, then figured that other things were solid too and if I played like a coward I didn't need as much shielding. I typically enjoyed having faster flux dumps than higher flux reserves and no clue if that was right or wrong.

if you havent played since story points were introduced, definitely go back. there are a lot of new items you can plug into colony buildings, and mods like nex and industrial revolution open up even more ways to make money. i have a colony in the far corner of the sector, 8 or so planets all at 300% or so hazard rating easily pulling me more than a mil a month.

ive found that only in minmax builds do you really need either more reserves or dumps, a balance is usually good for most ships. captials you absolutely want to specialize and minmax, like for instance with an onslaught you dont really need high flux reserves since any onslaught build should have shield shunt, so you only need enough to keep those weapons firing. the simulator is actually a lot of fun to play around with for this, you can easily see if you are outshooting your flux reserves or regen.

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 8:51 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:48 pm would anybody like to talk about starsector

65 mods in my modlist, deployment points set to 9000 average, requires a reboot of the game every 3 hours, full restart of my PC after 6 hours if I'm being a loser on the weekends or some shit
worth it? yeah ofc

rocking people's shit with a pre-nerf (4 large missile mounts) Purcellyra missile battlecruiser from United Aurora Federation + those 4 large mounts being dedicated to Tartarus LRMs from Superweapons Arsenal (ripperoni that mod)
using Exotica tech to have a hacked missile forge on the ship, reloads my 96 missiles for each launcher every 48 seconds
96 tartarus missiles a launcher x 4 launchers = 384 nuclear EM missiles total, I have more nukes on that ship than all of china and I can get em *all* back in under a minute with my missile autoforge

fast missile racks, 4 charges, fastest charge speed I can get it to + spamming it = a salvo of 72 tartarus LRMS from each of the four launchers firing their triple volley 6 times (first time + 4 charges + 1 charge regained while spamming the 4)

2050 energy damage on impact from a tartarus + 650 energy in an AOE, 300 EMP damage on impact + 1200 EMP in an AOE = hey check out how hard I can nuke this orbital station/battleship/anything really the killfeed is racking up like nobody's business

Did I mention that the Purcellyra also is a capital despite having a base speed of like 105???? I've got it to 120 with Exotica's infernalis drives upgrade
can't catch me, I outrange you since I'm missile spamming with 6000su range Tartarus LRMs, those shits hit like an actual fucking truck, et cetera.
we're gaming.

DEVESTATOR CANNONNNNSSSSS