Vekter realizes that the Stoned Man is king
Posted: Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:32 am
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He actually only acts out because he wants to talk to you.
To be honest like I said earlier in the thread, the way MSO handled this is exactly how we handled stuff in EVE Online: A Bad Game For Bad People, though we were generally handling much more sensitive information; Suspend all access and services, revoke all in-game roles, resulting in a lockout for 48 hours, then contact and mend the fence. It happens enough in EVE (because in larger alliances you're sometimes granting various levels of sensitive access to 200-300+ people) that we had an explicit checklist for what too do, but in my 5-6 years running one of the biggest alliances in the game I think it only remained in place half a dozen times out of the 100+ times we had to do it. We also explicitly did it over ANY threat of leak, even clear jokes, and always made it pretty clear that it was essentially a required reaction.Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:53 pm Okay, now that everything's been restored and all is right with the world, I feel more comfortable discussing why I was upset about everything.
I'm not mad about being removed, that's definitely valid. I would've done the same thing in MSO's place and I absolutely was in the wrong for that threat. My anger at the matter comes from two places:
1) MSO was being shitty to another member of the team and using actual, tangible punishments for the purpose of stopping them from annoying them. MSO threatened to mute Fikou over something that was arguably silly, Fikou said "What?" because he was confused at just how over the top the reaction was and he was muted. I called him out on it and was also muted, after which I was incensed and said something catastrophically stupid, at which point I deserved what I got.
2) There was little to no communication until everyone had woken up this morning. The only communication MSO gave to me was a PM on the forums basically saying "I'm not ignoring you on Discord, but I'm not looking at anything in my DMs until everyone's calmed down". Which is fine, but until MSO's post here, I wasn't certain if this would be a permanent thing or if MSO was still mulling over the actual extent of the punishment. This was, in short, really damn annoying because it actively limited how much I was allowed to discuss the matter. I couldn't say specifics about it or what my concerns were because there was always that possibility that my punishment would increase in severity due to it. I completely understand and respect not wanting to discuss anything while we were still heated, but that forum PM could have come with a simple "This isn't a permanent thing, we will discuss it more but we aren't completely banning you" which would have made me feel much better about things. I shouldn't have had to learn that fact from a post in a peanut thread doing damage control.
This could have been handled way better and I hope both of us have learned something from the matter.
And as someone who's played EVE WAY more than he really should have (and has actually flown with you at least once!) I completely understand that kind of reaction. MSO's immediate reaction to remove me was definitely warranted and well done. What rubs me the wrong way was his refusal to even consider telling me that it wasn't permanent and that we would discuss it more later.BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:38 pm To be honest like I said earlier in the thread, the way MSO handled this is exactly how we handled stuff in EVE Online: A Bad Game For Bad People, though we were generally handling much more sensitive information; Suspend all access and services, revoke all in-game roles, resulting in a lockout for 48 hours, then contact and mend the fence. It happens enough in EVE (because in larger alliances you're sometimes granting various levels of sensitive access to 200-300+ people) that we had an explicit checklist for what too do, but in my 5-6 years running one of the biggest alliances in the game I think it only remained in place half a dozen times out of the 100+ times we had to do it. We also explicitly did it over ANY threat of leak, even clear jokes, and always made it pretty clear that it was essentially a required reaction.
I've disagreed with you a lot, and sometimes vigorously, over some policy stuff and in ahelps, but you're a pretty excellent admin and I expect the outcome for you as long as you and MSO talk to mend fences will be similar to how we handled it when I played EVE: a week or so forced break, a few conversations re-underlining the importance of trust and confidence inside those kinds of channels, and an eventual restoration of access/privileges.
This is kinda fair but we also had a 48-hour no-contact "cooldown" ruleVekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 8:38 pmAnd as someone who's played EVE WAY more than he really should have (and has actually flown with you at least once!) I completely understand that kind of reaction. MSO's immediate reaction to remove me was definitely warranted and well done. What rubs me the wrong way was his refusal to even consider telling me that it wasn't permanent and that we would discuss it more later.BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:38 pm To be honest like I said earlier in the thread, the way MSO handled this is exactly how we handled stuff in EVE Online: A Bad Game For Bad People, though we were generally handling much more sensitive information; Suspend all access and services, revoke all in-game roles, resulting in a lockout for 48 hours, then contact and mend the fence. It happens enough in EVE (because in larger alliances you're sometimes granting various levels of sensitive access to 200-300+ people) that we had an explicit checklist for what too do, but in my 5-6 years running one of the biggest alliances in the game I think it only remained in place half a dozen times out of the 100+ times we had to do it. We also explicitly did it over ANY threat of leak, even clear jokes, and always made it pretty clear that it was essentially a required reaction.
I've disagreed with you a lot, and sometimes vigorously, over some policy stuff and in ahelps, but you're a pretty excellent admin and I expect the outcome for you as long as you and MSO talk to mend fences will be similar to how we handled it when I played EVE: a week or so forced break, a few conversations re-underlining the importance of trust and confidence inside those kinds of channels, and an eventual restoration of access/privileges.
There's also a bit of a difference between opsec in EVE and the kind of stuff we get up to in adminbus. There's no "hostile party" I could leak secrets to, there's no tangible benefit outside of drama. So like, yeah, it was the right thing to do, but going no contact over it was a bit much.
He was a good night polcon the first time in a while talking about the reasons I don't know what to say to someone who lost a lot of the time limit on the way home now and i don't have to do it again soon once I get back to the house.
It warms the heart and nourishes the soulNot-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Sat Apr 08, 2023 9:10 amthis is the post of universal love and friendship that brought back the bestmin, I just know it.
