/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?t=33799&view=unread#unread

N-word spam bot.............
Terry moment

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:14 pm Listen, you guys can go completely nuts in just a minute, but there is something I wanted to have clarified before you bash eachother's heads in:

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:40 pm

Bucovineanu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:01 pm Anything else we should know: For a rather long period of time I have contributed to, played on and adminned for a server explicitly built to rival tg. At this moment, the server (Merchant) is largely dead.

lol gaddeem!
>burn down bridge to make server with blackjack and slurs

What is wrong with blackjack??


WIth puzzled regards
-BONERMASTER

You probably don't know, but it's a futurama meme that became helpful terminology for people creating their own versions of things they're kicked out from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94qrgxH35M

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:14 pm Listen, you guys can go completely nuts in just a minute, but there is something I wanted to have clarified before you bash eachother's heads in:

What is wrong with blackjack??

WIth puzzled regards
-BONERMASTER

Dear BONERMASTER,

The only thing wrong with Blackjack is that I lose an unfathomable amount of money when I play it.

With penniless regards
-datorangebottle

Boot wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:16 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 7:19 pm I'm gonna ask forum mods to lock this if it turns into another B-BUT SLURS AREN'T BAD shitfest again. Stay on topic.

Understandable since the paperskinned lot that lied their way into getting a word filter put in are unable to even have that conversation without melting.

Don't you quote me, I'm not on your side in this.

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:14 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:12 pm

For the same reason, if a white person calls a black person a "nigger," this has a very different connotation than if a black person calls a black person a "nigger,"

but this isn't about calling somebody the nword

This is about saying, at all.

If we agree that the word has itself an intentionality, or a purposiveness if you will, in its existence and creation as something that was explicitly intended to demean, and if we also agree that one cannot demean someone based on criteria which they themselves apply to, then we would agree that it makes sense for the word to take on different meaning if said by a white person than if said by a black person -- even if it is being uttered into the void, rather than being used with a very specific intention, because the word itself carries intention, as all words do.

I would be willing to bite the bullet on this, by the way. If a white person called another white person a "mayo monkey," this would have very different meaning than if a black person called a white person a "mayo monkey," and I would expect people of all races would hold themselves to the standard they expect others to keep.

Using the "what are you faggots playing" example Armhulen gave could shed light on this. "Faggot" is a word that also holds intentionality and purposiveness, since its meaning, at least in American English, has a very specific intention in demeaning those of a particular sexuality. But in this quote, its intention outweighs the word's inherent intentionality, since the intention is so pointedly clear to be a friendly sort of playful turn of phrase. An argument could be made that the N-word could be used similarly, but it would be a good bit harder to make, because there is a baggage and acridity to race-based slurs that non-race-based slurs simply don't have.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:12 pm We are speaking English, so the word's existence in French has no bearing on its creation or existence in English.
Perhaps I am ignorant to the rich history of the N word in English, but I think I am in good company in only knowing of it with respect to its racist intentionality.

I would ask what other purpose the word has taken on, in your view, to nullify its purposiveness as a slur. I would also oppose any appeals to "nigga," which in my view has an entirely different meaning and is not the subject of this discussion.

Finally I would ask what you consider probable cause for being "reasonably offended." You mention arachnophobia. Phobias are extremely common and shared by peoples of all countries, races, shapes, and sizes, and therefore it is difficult to use a phobia as an avenue to demean. That said, you could use anything as an avenue to demean, including arachnophobia, but it does not hold the same weight since it lacks the historical, faux-scientific, and other baggage that race holds in its use as a diminutive avenue.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose you misread or misunderstood what I said, rather than being intentionally obtuse. I was not referring to a word that exists in French, but the one that exists in English, which comes from French. English has borrowed many words from other languages, French among them. When it began as an English word, it was used simply to describe black people, not to demean them.

You have just proven my second point by asserting that "nigga" (which is the same word) has a different meaning. Words can have several meanings. For example: "I am an engineer. I will engineer an engine."

Taking offence at random, floating slurs is unreasonable. Taking offence at slurs directed at you in particular may be reasonable.
While you could argue taking offence at anything on the Internet at all is unreasonable, that is not what I'm arguing here.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:22 pm If we agree that the word has itself an intentionality, or a purposiveness if you will, in its existence and creation as something that was explicitly intended to demean, and if we also agree that one cannot demean someone based on criteria which they themselves apply to, then we would agree that it makes sense for the word to take on different meaning if said by a white person than if said by a black person -- even if it is being uttered into the void, rather than being used with a very specific intention, because the word itself carries intention, as all words do.

I would be willing to bite the bullet on this, by the way. If a white person called another white person a "mayo monkey," this would have very different meaning than if a black person called a white person a "mayo monkey," and I would expect people of all races would hold themselves to the standard they expect others to keep.

Using the "what are you faggots playing" example Armhulen gave could shed light on this. "Faggot" is a word that also holds intentionality and purposiveness, since its meaning, at least in American English, has a very specific intention in demeaning those of a particular sexuality. But in this quote, its intention outweighs the word's inherent intentionality, since the intention is so pointedly clear to be a friendly sort of playful turn of phrase. An argument could be made that the N-word could be used similarly, but it would be a good bit harder to make, because there is a baggage and acridity to race-based slurs that non-race-based slurs simply don't have.

"If we agree". But we don't. Right there, at the very first words you wrote here, your point already fell apart. In fact, I already showed you that the word was NOT created with that purpose, and Wikipedia will back me up.

why dont we just find out where ekaterina lives IRL and kill him

(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:17 pm

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:14 pm Listen, you guys can go completely nuts in just a minute, but there is something I wanted to have clarified before you bash eachother's heads in:

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 3:40 pm

Bucovineanu wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 12:01 pm Anything else we should know: For a rather long period of time I have contributed to, played on and adminned for a server explicitly built to rival tg. At this moment, the server (Merchant) is largely dead.

lol gaddeem!
>burn down bridge to make server with blackjack and slurs

What is wrong with blackjack??


WIth puzzled regards
-BONERMASTER

You probably don't know, but it's a futurama meme that became helpful terminology for people creating their own versions of things they're kicked out from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-94qrgxH35M

OOOoooooohh.... now I get it.


With hooked regards
-BONERMASTER

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:31 pm why dont we just find out where ekaterina lives IRL and kill him

just admit you said this to get this thread locked.

Well what I take issue most with (staying on topic of the ban) is having a bot spamming the words on comms. Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned, and so will saying them on comms. Spamming them on comms may get you a perma ban, so forcing people to spam it is logically enough ban baiting. The sentence for ban baiting is getting the ban applied for yourself, like in this case. They also spammed comms with the n word to such a degree it lagged the server, like come on this is a clear permanent ban.

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:32 pm

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:31 pm why dont we just find out where ekaterina lives IRL and kill him

just admit you said this to get this thread locked.

You can feel free to lock this post if you want. I wanted to discuss what I thought was a very strange appeal but it just turned into a massive arguement on the weight of the n word

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:36 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:29 pm What's wrong with getting a permanent ban instead of a one year ban? A permanent ban means he can't come back without showing good faith. It really doesn't take a lot of effort to make an appeal.

Forcing someone to humiliate himself on a public forum to be let back in rubs me the wrong way.

that's weird considering you humiliate yourself daily on the forum for no reason at all.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Well what I take issue most with (staying on topic of the ban) is having a bot spamming the words on comms. Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned, and so will saying them on comms. Spamming them on comms may get you a perma ban, so forcing people to spam it is logically enough ban baiting. The sentence for ban baiting is getting the ban applied for yourself, like in this case. They also spammed comms with the n word to such a degree it lagged the server, like come on this is a clear permanent ban.

I have been informed on the appeal that rule 11 against the n-word was not a permanent ban at this point in time

Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

epic fail

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

Its not irony posting, people are getting banned. Talking about the nword is a thin line and some people overstep. Aggro crag got banned because well they threathened to dox and take another users life

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:26 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:12 pm We are speaking English, so the word's existence in French has no bearing on its creation or existence in English.
Perhaps I am ignorant to the rich history of the N word in English, but I think I am in good company in only knowing of it with respect to its racist intentionality.

I would ask what other purpose the word has taken on, in your view, to nullify its purposiveness as a slur. I would also oppose any appeals to "nigga," which in my view has an entirely different meaning and is not the subject of this discussion.

Finally I would ask what you consider probable cause for being "reasonably offended." You mention arachnophobia. Phobias are extremely common and shared by peoples of all countries, races, shapes, and sizes, and therefore it is difficult to use a phobia as an avenue to demean. That said, you could use anything as an avenue to demean, including arachnophobia, but it does not hold the same weight since it lacks the historical, faux-scientific, and other baggage that race holds in its use as a diminutive avenue.

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose you misread or misunderstood what I said, rather than being intentionally obtuse. I was not referring to a word that exists in French, but the one that exists in English, which comes from French. English has borrowed many words from other languages, French among them.

You have just proven my second point by asserting that "nigga" (which is the same word) has a different meaning. Words can have several meanings. For example: "I am an engineer. I will engineer an engine."

Taking offence at random, floating slurs is unreasonable. Taking offence at slurs directed at you in particular may not be.
While you could argue taking offence at anything on the Internet at all is unreasonable, that is not what I'm arguing here.

You are justified in being on your back foot here, considering you've been cast upon the stake in this thread, but I implore you to consider my argument from a place where you might be able to see how it could be agreeable, even if you ultimately disagree.

I am not aware of a color called "nigger," perhaps there is a similar word that was borrowed from French. The origin of the slur comes from the French (or is it Spanish/Portuguese?) for black, but the usage of the word as it exists in English, to my knowledge was never used with this meaning. It would be hard to imagine an 18th century homeowner asking their carpenter for wood in the color "nigger," but I have been wrong before.

I also disagree with the view that "nigga" is the same word. Prima facie it is a different word since it's spelled differently. "Color" and "colour" are different words despite holding the same meaning, since they are spelled differently -- one is the American English version and one is the British English version. But this aside, it appears to me that "nigga" and "nigger" don't hold the same meaning at all. I'm not an expert on it, so I would be just guessing in my justification, but I suspect the reason is because "nigga" refers more to the colloquial version of "nigger" that is used by black people to refer to each other in a friendly manner, or in music to refer to people of a race in a colloquial way. I would suspect this word has normal usage even among some white people in certain places, who may be very much a product of the culture and language of their environment. Stripping the hard R from it serves as a way to remove the baggage that came with the original word, which was exclusively used as a demeaning way to refer to black people.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

I think the ones that MSO quoted and then wrote "user was banned for this post" under were jokes, but the one that had "user was banned for this post" written on the post itself was real.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

yes but i was unbanned after appealing

Well I can certainly tell this thread is going to be productive.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:47 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

yes but i was unbanned after appealing

Well this feels odd, Crag is gone forever most likely.

Edit: Replied to the wrong thing fuck

just a month, but the next time they do that, it will be forever.

Thanks for turning this into an n-word debate thread.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:43 pm You are justified in being on your back foot here, considering you've been cast upon the stake in this thread, but I implore you to consider my argument from a place where you might be able to see how it could be agreeable, even if you ultimately disagree.

I am not aware of a color called "nigger," perhaps there is a similar word that was borrowed from French. The origin of the slur comes from the French (or is it Spanish/Portuguese?) for black, but the usage of the word as it exists in English, to my knowledge was never used with this meaning. It would be hard to imagine an 18th century homeowner asking their carpenter for wood in the color "nigger," but I have been wrong before.

I also disagree with the view that "nigga" is the same word. Prima facie it is a different word since it's spelled differently. "Color" and "colour" are different words despite holding the same meaning, since they are spelled differently -- one is the American English version and one is the British English version. But this aside, it appears to me that "nigga" and "nigger" don't hold the same meaning at all. I'm not an expert on it, so I would be just guessing in my justification, but I suspect the reason is because "nigga" refers more to the colloquial version of "nigger" that is used by black people to refer to each other in a friendly manner, or in music to refer to people of a race in a colloquial way. I would suspect this word has normal usage even among some white people in certain places, who may be very much a product of the culture and language of their environment. Stripping the hard R from it serves as a way to remove the baggage that came with the original word, which was exclusively used as a demeaning way to refer to black people.

I'm on the back foot? I've refuted you with facts and logic at every turn, facts which you appear to have chosen to ignore.
The only way your argument as presented thus far "could be agreeable" is by agreeing with false premises.
There's a colour called "negro", meaning "black", in French and Spanish, from which the word "nigger" originates, like I've been trying to tell you for 3 posts now.
The word was used to refer to black people, originally in a neutral form - it took on a demeaning meaning over time, it was not the original meaning.
Wikipedia confirms what I've been telling you about the origin of the word:

Wikipedia wrote:The word nigger, then spelled in English neger or niger, appeared in the 16th century as an adaptation of French nègre, itself from Spanish negro. They go back to the Latin adjective niger ([ˈnɪɡɛr]), meaning "black".[2][1] It was initially seen as a relatively neutral term, essentially synonymous with the English word negro.

Pretending that "nigga" and "nigger" are different words is pointless, considering "nigga" is a reconstruction of the ebonic pronunciation of "nigger" - in other words, a different spelling of the same word, much like "colour" and "color", which, contrary to what you state, are the same word.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

There is 100% a precedent that saying the n-word unprompted will get you banned

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:49 pm Well I can certainly tell this thread is going to be productive.

My product is thanos snapping the thread's participants and baby business is BOOMING

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:59 pm

AsbestosSniffer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:49 pm Well I can certainly tell this thread is going to be productive.

My product is thanos snapping the thread's participants and baby business is BOOMING

Arm is reaching his ban qouta

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:59 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

There is 100% a precedent that saying the n-word unprompted will get you banned

Do you have some examples of this?

Blatantly racist MF "don't turn a thread into an argument about the N word so you can say the N word repeatedly then go 'well it's part of the debate' and pat yourself on the back" challenge (impossible (MSO called))

MSO "don't assume the most unrealistic and negative possibility of someone's shitpost and then slap your dick against the thread while hooting like an ape to assert dominance" challenge (impossible)

crag "don't make a topical shitpost then get kicked in the balls by staff over 'tone'" challenge (failed)

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:47 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

yes but i was unbanned after appealing

You are a deceiver, you have made no post in ban appeals.

i would say this thread nosedived quickly but we were already grounded

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:04 pm

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:47 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

yes but i was unbanned after appealing

You are a deceiver, you have made no post in ban appeals.

i was forum banned and thus could not make a post in ban appeals. i had to talk to mso in the discord to get it lifted

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:01 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:59 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

There is 100% a precedent that saying the n-word unprompted will get you banned

Do you have some examples of this?

These are the most recent ones.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:06 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:04 pm

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:47 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:41 pm Are people actually getting banned or is this irony posting. Also sinful make your posts into executive summaries before submitting I have a quota of only reading one of your novellas per thread now

yes but i was unbanned after appealing

You are a deceiver, you have made no post in ban appeals.

i was forum banned and thus could not make a post in ban appeals. i had to talk to mso in the discord to get it lifted

I'm either being epicly trolled right now or anyone could pretend to have been banned by writing (USER WAS (NOT) BANNED FOR THIS POST) and we need a clearer warning.
Didn't Armhulen have a little special warning box so we knew it was real?

Crag's ban, I believe, because:
a) what Crag did was ban-worthy according to established precedent; and
b) it was edited after new posts were made but it did not receive the edit warning, which means a forum moderator did it

I'm sure black people who play this game would be happy they weren't actually targeted when they saw the N-word being repeated ad nauseum over and over across comms without any context whatsoever.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 4:28 pm considering he went on to merchant station something tells me we missed very little in the time he was permanently banned. like you know what that server was like, right?

I don't really think this can be overstated.

Imagine the most annoying person you see regularly on a ss13 server. They're loud, they scream in full caps, they're obnoxious, unfunny, toxic, asocial, they metagame, they use ghost roles for revenge, etc.
Now imagine if nearly EVERY SINGLE person on the server was like that. I don't mean they roleplay characters like that, they full-on act like it both ICly and OOCly.
Oh, and they think saying the word "Nigger" is the height of comedy. It made Sybil look like HRP in comparison.

It was bad enough that Livrah (who initially supported it and made a video promoting it) backed out after, like, two videos and went back to Terry.

Any place that promotes 100% unfiltered free speech results in it being filled with social rejects that think screaming "nigger," "kike," "jew," etc. is the peak of humor.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:43 pm You are justified in being on your back foot here, considering you've been cast upon the stake in this thread, but I implore you to consider my argument from a place where you might be able to see how it could be agreeable, even if you ultimately disagree.

I am not aware of a color called "nigger," perhaps there is a similar word that was borrowed from French. The origin of the slur comes from the French (or is it Spanish/Portuguese?) for black, but the usage of the word as it exists in English, to my knowledge was never used with this meaning. It would be hard to imagine an 18th century homeowner asking their carpenter for wood in the color "nigger," but I have been wrong before.

I also disagree with the view that "nigga" is the same word. Prima facie it is a different word since it's spelled differently. "Color" and "colour" are different words despite holding the same meaning, since they are spelled differently -- one is the American English version and one is the British English version. But this aside, it appears to me that "nigga" and "nigger" don't hold the same meaning at all. I'm not an expert on it, so I would be just guessing in my justification, but I suspect the reason is because "nigga" refers more to the colloquial version of "nigger" that is used by black people to refer to each other in a friendly manner, or in music to refer to people of a race in a colloquial way. I would suspect this word has normal usage even among some white people in certain places, who may be very much a product of the culture and language of their environment. Stripping the hard R from it serves as a way to remove the baggage that came with the original word, which was exclusively used as a demeaning way to refer to black people.

I'm on the back foot? I've refuted you with facts and logic at every turn, facts which you appear to have chosen to ignore.
The only way your argument as presented thus far "could be agreeable" is by agreeing with false premises.
There's a colour called "negro", meaning "black", in French and Spanish, from which the word "nigger" originates, like I've been trying to tell you for 3 posts now.
The word was used to refer to black people, originally in a neutral form - it took on a demeaning meaning over time, it was not the original meaning.
Wikipedia confirms what I've been telling you about the origin of the word:

Wikipedia wrote:The word nigger, then spelled in English neger or niger, appeared in the 16th century as an adaptation of French nègre, itself from Spanish negro. They go back to the Latin adjective niger ([ˈnɪɡɛr]), meaning "black".[2][1] It was initially seen as a relatively neutral term, essentially synonymous with the English word negro.

Pretending that "nigga" and "nigger" are different words is pointless, considering "nigga" is a reconstruction of the ebonic pronunciation of "nigger" - in other words, a different spelling of the same word, much like "colour" and "color", which, contrary to what you state, are the same word.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:54 pm just a month, but the next time they do that, it will be forever.

crag said you put it for may next year stonehead

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:43 pm You are justified in being on your back foot here, considering you've been cast upon the stake in this thread, but I implore you to consider my argument from a place where you might be able to see how it could be agreeable, even if you ultimately disagree.

I'm on the back foot? I've refuted you with facts and logic at every turn, facts which you appear to have chosen to ignore.

Viz: "hey, you're justified in being defensive about this since you've been attacked!" What you've done here is taken the olive branch I offered, used it as a makeshift dildo, and then shoved it into a woodchipper. It is clear you have no interest in a good-faith debate about this so I will stop quibbling with my verbiage.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pmThe only way your argument as presented thus far "could be agreeable" is by agreeing with false premises.
There's a colour called "negro", meaning "black", in French and Spanish, from which the word "nigger" originates, like I've been trying to tell you for 3 posts now.

I do not give a flying fuck about what the word meant in French, Spanish, Portuguese, Latin, or fucking Icelandic, Ekaterina. I do not care if in Chinese "nigger" actually means "a word to describe Jesus Christ after he's returned to earth." We are talking about what "nigger" means in English. No one has used "nigger" in English as anything except a racist term since the transatlantic slave trade.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pmThe word was used to refer to black people, originally in a neutral form - it took on a demeaning meaning over time, it was not the original meaning.
Wikipedia confirms what I've been telling you about the origin of the word:

Wikipedia wrote:The word nigger, then spelled in English neger or niger, appeared in the 16th century as an adaptation of French nègre, itself from Spanish negro. They go back to the Latin adjective niger ([ˈnɪɡɛr]), meaning "black".[2][1] It was initially seen as a relatively neutral term, essentially synonymous with the English word negro.

"Neger" and "niger" are different words from "nigger" because of the different spelling. As language transforms the spelling transforms and the meaning transforms, we are talking about the word "nigger" it should be abundantly clear to you, no one gives a fuck if people say "neger" or "niger" on SS13 to refer to black, get real man. Let's talk about the thing that matters.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pmPretending that "nigga" and "nigger" are different words is pointless, considering "nigga" is a reconstruction of the ebonic pronunciation of "nigger" - in other words, a different spelling of the same word, much like "colour" and "color", which, contrary to what you state, are the same word.

Yes, "nigga" is a reconstruction. Has it ever crossed your mind that reconstructions change meanings and that therefore, it becomes a different word with different connotations? Why are you so obsessed in forcing them into the same word I wonder. When a white slaveowner in the 19th century screams at the top of his lungs in the cotton-fields "NIGGERS!!!" do you really think he's just shouting a color, do you think it has no connotations because "he's not calling anyone by the word!" No of fucking course he means it in the patently obvious racist way the word's intended you knuckledragging chimp. Why is this so hard to conceive of for you, that this usage is different than the reconstruction "nigga" used in a fucking rap song, how on earth could someone be so dense as to consider these just like "color" and "colour"!

Domitius wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:17 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:57 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:43 pm You are justified in being on your back foot here, considering you've been cast upon the stake in this thread, but I implore you to consider my argument from a place where you might be able to see how it could be agreeable, even if you ultimately disagree.

I am not aware of a color called "nigger," perhaps there is a similar word that was borrowed from French. The origin of the slur comes from the French (or is it Spanish/Portuguese?) for black, but the usage of the word as it exists in English, to my knowledge was never used with this meaning. It would be hard to imagine an 18th century homeowner asking their carpenter for wood in the color "nigger," but I have been wrong before.

I also disagree with the view that "nigga" is the same word. Prima facie it is a different word since it's spelled differently. "Color" and "colour" are different words despite holding the same meaning, since they are spelled differently -- one is the American English version and one is the British English version. But this aside, it appears to me that "nigga" and "nigger" don't hold the same meaning at all. I'm not an expert on it, so I would be just guessing in my justification, but I suspect the reason is because "nigga" refers more to the colloquial version of "nigger" that is used by black people to refer to each other in a friendly manner, or in music to refer to people of a race in a colloquial way. I would suspect this word has normal usage even among some white people in certain places, who may be very much a product of the culture and language of their environment. Stripping the hard R from it serves as a way to remove the baggage that came with the original word, which was exclusively used as a demeaning way to refer to black people.

I'm on the back foot? I've refuted you with facts and logic at every turn, facts which you appear to have chosen to ignore.
The only way your argument as presented thus far "could be agreeable" is by agreeing with false premises.
There's a colour called "negro", meaning "black", in French and Spanish, from which the word "nigger" originates, like I've been trying to tell you for 3 posts now.
The word was used to refer to black people, originally in a neutral form - it took on a demeaning meaning over time, it was not the original meaning.
Wikipedia confirms what I've been telling you about the origin of the word:

Wikipedia wrote:The word nigger, then spelled in English neger or niger, appeared in the 16th century as an adaptation of French nègre, itself from Spanish negro. They go back to the Latin adjective niger ([ˈnɪɡɛr]), meaning "black".[2][1] It was initially seen as a relatively neutral term, essentially synonymous with the English word negro.

Pretending that "nigga" and "nigger" are different words is pointless, considering "nigga" is a reconstruction of the ebonic pronunciation of "nigger" - in other words, a different spelling of the same word, much like "colour" and "color", which, contrary to what you state, are the same word.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:35 pm Saying the N-word in ooc will get you banned

No it won't, please read the actual rules.

Fun fact saying the n word in ooc unprompted will have most admins ban you

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:18 pm [too long]

"Definitions from Oxford Languages · on the back foot · phrase of foot · BRITISH · outmanoeuvred by a competitor or opponent; at a disadvantage"
You call that an olive branch? Is claiming to have outmanoeuvred me and that I'm losing offering an olive branch?

We are not just talking about what it MEANS in English, but also about what it MEANT in English, since YOU asserted that the word was CREATED TO DEMEAN, which I've shown is not the case.

Your ending example is extraordinarily poor, as he is directing it at the men working said field, and thus cannot, at the same time, be directing it at nobody.

As to your pathetic insults, I'm going to choose to ignore them. I read a phrase today which said that to take offence at something on the Internet is like seeing a pile of shit on the sidewalk and to choose to step on it.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:16 pm It was bad enough that Livrah (who initially supported it and made a video promoting it) backed out after, like, two videos and went back to Terry.

not only is that funny but i went and saw the video and man no wonder NRP servers die. NRPers live on feeding from people actually trying to roleplay, you put them all on a server with each other and it's just le roundwiper every time, you kill a guy and he goes "aw what the heck" or "bro convert me" and you can tell that's a burn bright burn out kinda of fun.

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:16 pm Imagine the most annoying person you see regularly on a ss13 server. They're loud, they scream in full caps, they're obnoxious, unfunny, toxic, asocial, they metagame, they use ghost roles for revenge, etc.

Actually, you already said it. These "players" are leeches and our game is tolerable because we control the amount of leeches at any one time.

watching insufferable shitheads with the emotional maturity and sense of humour of a 14 year old mald because you won't engage with their 9 page essay on why they should be allowed to be racist "as a joke" is the gift that keeps on giving

you complain people have a bad reaction to a slur but the only reason you say it is because it gets a bad reaction

we get it, a long time ago you realized the only way to get attention was to be as annoying as possible, but it's not too late, you can turn this around and become less of a sponge brained slug person, i believe in you

Worth noting that performing a hard filter bypass can cause you to get permabanned

eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:28 pm we get it, a long time ago you realized the only way to get attention was to be as annoying as possible, but it's not too late, you can turn this around and become less of a sponge brained slug person, i believe in you

that's what i'm saying dude, the ban appealer should just drop this previous life of cringe meltdowns, plasma flooding because you didn't get your way in a round, and hanging around edgy nrp spheres. You'll actually end up enjoying ss13 if you're not surrounding yourself in unhealthy communities. saying the original bans were overblown after crawling back from merchant is just holding onto a past that does you no good

oranges wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:29 pm eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard eating a burger with no honey mustard

I CAN FIX HIM

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:30 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:28 pm we get it, a long time ago you realized the only way to get attention was to be as annoying as possible, but it's not too late, you can turn this around and become less of a sponge brained slug person, i believe in you

that's what i'm saying dude, the ban appealer should just drop this previous life of cringe meltdowns, plasma flooding because you didn't get your way in a round, and hanging around edgy nrp spheres. You'll actually end up enjoying ss13 if you're not surrounding yourself in unhealthy communities. saying the original bans were overblown after crawling back from merchant is just holding onto a past that does you no good

I bet this guy could be unbanned if all he said was "I realised I surrounded myself with an awful community, and now I finally see with clarity that I dont wanna be the type of person who just ruins fun for others and says the nword. I am sorry."

Armhulen wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:30 pm

dendydoom wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:28 pm we get it, a long time ago you realized the only way to get attention was to be as annoying as possible, but it's not too late, you can turn this around and become less of a sponge brained slug person, i believe in you

that's what i'm saying dude, the ban appealer should just drop this previous life of cringe meltdowns, plasma flooding because you didn't get your way in a round, and hanging around edgy nrp spheres. You'll actually end up enjoying ss13 if you're not surrounding yourself in unhealthy communities. saying the original bans were overblown after crawling back from merchant is just holding onto a past that does you no good

Yeah remember hippie and the time it decided to host a fucking Christchurch shooting event?

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:25 pm Your ending example is extraordinarily poor, as he is directing it at the men working said field, and thus cannot, at the same time, be directing it at nobody.

Incorrect! Although the fields were just tilled by his copious amount of slaves, they are now empty since it's after dark. The slaveowner is truly just shouting it at the void.
But with what intentionality, Ekat. With what purposiveness? Does the meaning of the word matter to you whatsoever? Etymologically it came from something that just meant black! But clearly it didn't mean that there. And it definitely doesn't mean it anymore.
How do you reckon with that?

Let's use the example in this ban appeal! Did the author of the circuit bot just want to spam the word "black" everywhere? Hmm...
No!! I think he wanted to spam the "nigger word!" Why? Because it's a fucking slur, jackass!

What could have been the intention behind that I wonder. Let's make it in to a multiple-choice quiz, since short answer is not your strong suit:

A) He wanted to make people say something racist.
B) He wanted to make people say something racist.
C) He wanted to make people say something racist.
D) He wanted to express what he learned, in his Parisian youth, to mean "black," and to say this loudly as to assert his right and privilege as per Rule 11.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:35 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Mon Apr 10, 2023 9:25 pm Your ending example is extraordinarily poor, as he is directing it at the men working said field, and thus cannot, at the same time, be directing it at nobody.

Incorrect! Although the fields were just tilled by his copious amount of slaves, they are now empty since it's after dark. The slaveowner is truly just shouting it at the void.
But with what intentionality, Ekat. With what purposiveness? Does the meaning of the word matter to you whatsoever? Etymologically it came from something that just meant black! But clearly it didn't mean that there. And it definitely doesn't mean it anymore.
How do you reckon with that?

Let's use the example in this ban appeal! Did the author of the circuit bot just want to spam the word "black" everywhere? Hmm...
No!! I think he wanted to spam the "nigger word!" Why? Because it's a fucking slur, jackass!

What could have been the intention behind that I wonder. Let's make it in to a multiple-choice quiz, since short answer is not your strong suit:

A) He wanted to make people say something racist.
B) He wanted to make people say something racist.
C) He wanted to make people say something racist.
D) He wanted to express what he learned, in his Parisian youth, to mean "black," and to say this loudly as to assert his right and privilege as per Rule 11.

Before anyone defends the appealer here, they said their complete point of the whole thing was to grief and harm the server. That was their intent

Edit: At the request of the appealer I mean to say their point was to grief the server. They did not intentionally seek to harm the framework of the server through lag.