/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:00 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/79638

I dislike the Eris artstyle.
I do not want more microplastics in my sprites.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 5:33 pm**

Should've stuck to booba jumpskirts.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:15 pm**

DaydreamIQ wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 4:47 pm Well Viro called out MoffNyan (The person who left a lot of really nice and politely worded feedback) for being 'condescending' and straight up kept calling them a cunt so much that they left the tgcord, and now I'm pretty sure they're banned for being a toxic dickhead. So life goes on I guess. Makes you wonder how they've lasted this long

well then!
great way to shoot yourself in the foot there viro

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:20 pm**

I cannot stand how MothNyan was treated. Their comment was not only incredibly kindly put but also actual constructive criticism that spriters can USE. It's despicable to respond to a post that is the golden standard for dev feedback with toxicity.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:22 pm**

God bless, maybe we can finish it and kick him off the Github as well.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:48 pm**

Cheshify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:20 pm I cannot stand how MothNyan was treated. Their comment was not only incredibly kindly put but also actual constructive criticism that spriters can USE. It's despicable to respond to a post that is the golden standard for dev feedback with toxicity.

I really liked their suggestion cos it helped me see shit perfectly. The way they were treated on the discord was fucking unacceptable. Viro essentially threatened MothNyan with doxxing. "This is something I used to do but they're lucky I changed" or some such.

I'm surprised if they're not already gitbanned.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:15 pm**

that post was so nice and helpful :( why be so unkind

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:18 pm**

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:24 pm It's nice to see that the github comments section has improved greatly. A lot of genuinely useful feedback, especially MoffNyan's post there.
A shame players club'll always be like this, though.

Better here than in the pr

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:23 pm**

You can raise a point about too much feedback being seen as hatred but if you take a shit on the floor you have no right to complain when nobody around you seems thrilled about it.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:30 pm**

okay I take it back about Viro being somewhat decent on the discord. Viro had a meltdown on Discord. At MothNyan of all folks. Yeah I could see how MothNyan's comment could come off as a bit condescending but it's because Viro has shown to blow up at people who criticize their work. MothNyan was walking on eggshells in a minefield with this guy and he still blew up at them. Bravo.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:34 pm**

What a wild ride.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:37 pm**

i think its pretty sad viro made mothnyan leave mothnyan is a pretty good person

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:49 pm**

I feel bad for mothnyan, they were just really nice whenever I spoke to them and the "arguement" they had with viro was them being sorry and explaining that it wasn't their intent to be condescending

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 7:56 pm**

classic viro moment

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:04 pm**

I figure the post that got them banned was deleted? I tried skimming through the spriter channel and didn't find anything.

I'm genuinely a bit annoyed with the absolute shit Viro threw at Moth. I give props to Moth for having a level head because I would have said some really unsavory stuff.

This is just some of what was said.
Read at your own peril (and blood pressure):

Spoiler:

IDK how to share discord screenshots better than that, sorry.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:14 pm**

I don't really mind viro's existing resprites but im pretty sure they were planning on giving medibots a smile which if that bridge is to be crossed you are going to see me soulplain(that's a portmanteau of Soul and Complain) very loudly because medibots should be at most blank faced due to their lack of agency.
Now I'm going to say i DO NOT SUPPORT WHATEVER VITROL viro spewed okay DONT BAN ME ASSHOLE
Now I'd like to complain that the github comments dont need le wholesome moth pictures elongating musk my commute down to the comment box. I mean i'd be pissed if my pr had an essay post along with one of those birthday cat pun greeting cards on it.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:20 pm**

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:14 pm I don't really mind viro's existing resprites but im pretty sure they were planning on giving medibots a smile which if that bridge is to be crossed you are going to see me soulplain(that's a portmanteau of Soul and Complain) very loudly because medibots should be at most blank faced due to their lack of agency.
Now I'm going to say i DO NOT SUPPORT WHATEVER VITROL viro spewed okay DONT BAN ME ASSHOLE
Now I'd like to complain that the github comments dont need le wholesome moth pictures elongating musk my commute down to the comment box. I mean i'd be pissed if my pr had an essay post along with one of those birthday cat pun greeting cards on it.

I fully get why Viro saw it as being passive-aggressive, and I'd even argue it came across like that when I read it as well, but Viro takes any form of criticism that isn't from a spritetainer or a fellow spriter (who has been spriting longer than they have, been on the server longer than they have, and have pushed more PRs then they have) poorly. We have the full circle of them getting mad about comments being too rude, too nice, too short, and too long, from regular players, and from somewhat regular spriters.

I've talked to MothNyan before, and that's how they give feedback. I was doing some art stuff and they wrote feedback like this. They write like that to everyone. It's a bit annoying at first but they mean well.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:21 pm**

Isn't threatening to dox someone supposed to be an instant blacklist?

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:23 pm**

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:30 pm**

GPeckman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:21 pm Isn't threatening to dox someone supposed to be an instant blacklist?

there's no way mso would agree with the discord mods on that interpretation i imagine.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:40 pm**

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:30 pm there's no way mso would agree with the discord mods on that interpretation i imagine.

what reason would he have to randomly drop the information that he has a history of doxing people other than to threaten the guy

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:43 pm**

coders can be shit persons and objectively wrong, more at 11

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:54 pm**

It's always, ALWAYS a red flag when someone responds to constructive criticism with "you are an idiot / unintelligent / etc."

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:05 pm**

when is the gitban coming so i never have to witness this again

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:05 pm**

Pepper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:40 pm
oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:30 pm there's no way mso would agree with the discord mods on that interpretation i imagine.
what reason would he have to randomly drop the information that he has a history of doxing people other than to threaten the guy

To sound edgy. But sounding edgy like that is a really fucking stupid idea.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:11 pm**

oh goddamnit Moth left the TGdiscord and the manuel discord too.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:16 pm**

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:30 pm
GPeckman wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:21 pm Isn't threatening to dox someone supposed to be an instant blacklist?
there's no way mso would agree with the discord mods on that interpretation i imagine.

Even joking about doxxing leads to blacklisting. Viro saying that he'd have doxxed if it was his past self... but not only is this a bit more severe as a threat than a joke (seeing as it could've very well been a thing in the past) but why would you mention it if you were past it? Shit's crazy to just say.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:21 pm**

conrad wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:05 pm To sound edgy. But sounding edgy like that is a really fucking stupid idea.

imo his post read like a manipulation tactic. like the guy somehow owes him for the "gratitude" of restraining himself by not doxing him. like he's soooo lucky that viro was is a nice person now by "only" being an inflammatory asshole and not straight up doxing him

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:25 pm**

Pepper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:40 pm
oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:30 pm there's no way mso would agree with the discord mods on that interpretation i imagine.
what reason would he have to randomly drop the information that he has a history of doxing people other than to threaten the guy

you know i'm not mso right?

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:27 pm**

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:25 pm you know i'm not mso right?

i am asking for your input because i value your opinion

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:32 pm**

I do not imagine that it would have been the "you should love yourself NOW" version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzkTbS2PXNM

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:37 pm**

Cheshify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:20 pm I cannot stand how MothNyan was treated. Their comment was not only incredibly kindly put but also actual constructive criticism that spriters can USE. It's despicable to respond to a post that is the golden standard for dev feedback with toxicity.

They actually do come off as very condescending, so they should take some communication lessons

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:41 pm**

I do communication lessons.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:57 pm**

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 3:25 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:53 am Iunno why anyone here in the thread is convinced viro has special privileges like he isn't at the end of an extremely short rope with the team as is. He literally got told, in this PR, he is going to get his pr's closed if his attitude doesn't improve and he doesn't stop trying to invite aggression towards himself. He is actively making things worse for everyone by behaving like that.
He also actually has been giviing reasonable responses to the replies largely speaking, he just decided to start off by shitting in his own hands and clapping for soome reason

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:24 am >uses the most clear sprite to prove the sprites are just fine

something smells
I know its cruel of me to expect you to read things before having an emotional reaction but "the most clear sprites" were the specific subset of sprites we were talking about and why I said "It is funny you call these unclear because to me they are the most clear".

bro you been hanging out with oranges too much

YOU TOOK THE MOST CLEAR SPRITE GRAPHIC OUT OF MANY BLURRY SHIT SPRITE GRAPHICS
AND USED THAT TO SAY "HUH SEE THEY ALL LOOK FINE"

I DONT THINK I CAN CLARIFY THIS ANY FUCKING FURTHER WITHOUT RESORTING TO CRAG RESPONSES

sorry for yelling i'm really hungry

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:59 pm**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:57 pm
Jacquerel wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 3:25 pm
NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 10:53 am Iunno why anyone here in the thread is convinced viro has special privileges like he isn't at the end of an extremely short rope with the team as is. He literally got told, in this PR, he is going to get his pr's closed if his attitude doesn't improve and he doesn't stop trying to invite aggression towards himself. He is actively making things worse for everyone by behaving like that.
He also actually has been giviing reasonable responses to the replies largely speaking, he just decided to start off by shitting in his own hands and clapping for soome reason

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 8:24 am >uses the most clear sprite to prove the sprites are just fine

something smells
I know its cruel of me to expect you to read things before having an emotional reaction but "the most clear sprites" were the specific subset of sprites we were talking about and why I said "It is funny you call these unclear because to me they are the most clear".
bro you been hanging out with oranges too much

YOU TOOK THE MOST CLEAR SPRITE GRAPHIC OUT OF MANY BLURRY SHIT SPRITE GRAPHICS
AND USED THAT TO SAY "HUH SEE THEY ALL LOOK FINE"

I DONT THINK I CAN CLARIFY THIS ANY FUCKING FURTHER WITHOUT RESORTING TO CRAG RESPONSES

sorry for yelling i'm really hungry

oh wait i just read the actual thing i was replying to i was very tired

i am now very tired and hungry you have my apologies sir

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:00 pm**

Pepper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:21 pm
conrad wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:05 pm To sound edgy. But sounding edgy like that is a really fucking stupid idea.
imo his post read like a manipulation tactic. like the guy somehow owes him for the "gratitude" of restraining himself by not doxing him. like he's soooo lucky that viro was is a nice person now by "only" being an inflammatory asshole and not straight up doxing him

pretty much this yeah

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:03 pm**

I just assume everyone is going to take my comments in the worst possible interpretation and start from there.

Or ignore me, that too. Ideally that since it's easier than trying to explain myself. I blame it on ending stuff with periods since it always looks like I'm pissed.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:57 pm
I DONT THINK I CAN CLARIFY THIS ANY FUCKING FURTHER WITHOUT RESORTING TO CRAG RESPONSES

sorry for yelling i'm really hungry

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:59 pm oh wait i just read the actual thing i was replying to i was very tired

i am now very tired and hungry you have my apologies sir

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:53 pm**

Snickers.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 10:53 pm**

Omega_DarkPotato wrote: ↑Sat Nov 11, 2023 5:24 pm It's nice to see that the github comments section has improved greatly. A lot of genuinely useful feedback, especially MoffNyan's post there.
A shame players club'll always be like this, though.

Unfortunately it turns out it doesn't matter if Viro can't take criticism well.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:02 pm**

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:32 pm
► Show Spoiler

I do not imagine that it would have been the "you should love yourself NOW" version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzkTbS2PXNM

listen man you gotta spoil or compress your images theyre massive

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:19 pm**

kinnebian wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:02 pm
RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:32 pm
► Show Spoiler

I do not imagine that it would have been the "you should love yourself NOW" version.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzkTbS2PXNM

listen man you gotta spoil or compress your images theyre massive

HOW DARE YOU CRITICISE ME I'VE BEEN DOING SHITTY PAINT.NET EDITS FOR YEAAAAAARS LONGER THAN YOU HAAAAAAAVE YOU FORUM US*R

/s

I changed it to be 30% smaller but it still might be too big I keep forgetting that I have bigger monitors now.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:39 pm**

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 8:14 pm I don't really mind viro's existing resprites but im pretty sure they were planning on giving medibots a smile which if that bridge is to be crossed you are going to see me soulplain(that's a portmanteau of Soul and Complain) very loudly because medibots should be at most blank faced due to their lack of agency.

don't worry that wasn't viro, that spriter is a lot more wholesome and also will probably listen to you if you mention this
i really want their medbot sprites but also i presonally agree that I think faceless is better

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:41 pm**

oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:37 pm
Cheshify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:20 pm I cannot stand how MothNyan was treated. Their comment was not only incredibly kindly put but also actual constructive criticism that spriters can USE. It's despicable to respond to a post that is the golden standard for dev feedback with toxicity.
They actually do come off as very condescending, so they should take some communication lessons

While I agree that MothNyan's original comment could come off as condescending, if you react to being talked to that way by flying off the handle so hard you end up permabanned from the Discord I think it's obvious that some sort of anger management lessons are needed or something. They would've been better off just not saying anything rather than completely burying someone trying to help them, regardless of the use of condescending language.

Posted: **Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:45 pm**

BonChoi wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 11:41 pm
oranges wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:37 pm
Cheshify wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 6:20 pm I cannot stand how MothNyan was treated. Their comment was not only incredibly kindly put but also actual constructive criticism that spriters can USE. It's despicable to respond to a post that is the golden standard for dev feedback with toxicity.
They actually do come off as very condescending, so they should take some communication lessons
While I agree that MothNyan's original comment could come off as condescending, if you react to being talked to that way by flying off the handle so hard you end up permabanned from the Discord I think it's obvious that some sort of anger management lessons are needed or something. They would've been better off just not saying anything rather than completely burying someone trying to help them, regardless of the use of condescending language.

well i dont think anyone is arguing that viro isn't a psychopath with a keyboard.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:25 am**

Pepper wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:21 pm
conrad wrote: ↑Sun Nov 12, 2023 9:05 pm To sound edgy. But sounding edgy like that is a really fucking stupid idea.
imo his post read like a manipulation tactic. like the guy somehow owes him for the "gratitude" of restraining himself by not doxing him. like he's soooo lucky that viro was is a nice person now by "only" being an inflammatory asshole and not straight up doxing him

Yeah I sorta agree, sorta cos that to me sounds a bit like a threat. Sounded like a threat to MoffNyan too. Fucked IMO

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:46 am**

I can't see what world:

Sorry this was a long read, but I honestly do feel like you have the ability to make great sprites! If you continue to study colour theory and the design principals of picking out "focal points" you should be able to improve and make sprites that can make both yourself and others happy!

Isn't insanely elitist and condescending.

Stop acting like its wholesome.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 12:48 am**

I think that like Viro they simply did not have the understanding of what the effect of their words actually are vs what they intended, only from exactly the opposite direction. It was not a sensible line to include in the message, but I do still believe it was from entirely misplaced sincerity rather than passive aggressive.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:20 am**

Tbh I don't think either person in this is entirely free of guilt but we have a proverb in the Conrad household that goes: just 'cos I got a mean skidmark doesn't mean you get to shit yourself.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:34 am**

Idk how but my brain does not see that sentence posted here as condescending at all to me.

Not sure what about it makes it condescending other than maybe if you dont agree with some of the points there? Implications that they dont make great sprites? ehh. Depends on who you are I guess. I have been taught by people in the art world that would make comments that sound mega condescending and it can still be very good advice. If they speak like that when criticising your work, then thats how they are. If you don't like that, then give them pointers on how to improve back, or just ignore them. Don't fight them for it. Fighting them over it is just going to get more of what you don't like. People do not change how they talk easily.

Some people really cannot take criticism. Which is a shame, really..

But even then, what could Moth have done to sound nicer? Just.. not post? Yeah, I dont know. criticism is criticism.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:46 am**

Constellado wrote: ↑Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:34 am Idk how but my brain does not see that sentence posted here as condescending at all to me.

Not sure what about it makes it condescending other than maybe if you dont agree with some of the points there? Implications that they dont make great sprites? ehh. Depends on who you are I guess. I have been taught by people in the art world that would make comments that sound mega condescending and it can still be very good advice. If they speak like that when criticising your work, then thats how they are. If you don't like that, then give them pointers on how to improve back, or just ignore them. Don't fight them for it. Fighting them over it is just going to get more of what you don't like. People do not change how they talk easily.

Some people really cannot take criticism. Which is a shame, really..

But even then, what could Moth have done to sound nicer? Just.. not post? Yeah, I dont know. criticism is criticism.

That was a cool response, and I see that you're passionate about the player's club. I think if you study some rethoric and learn proper formal logic you'd be able to produce much better, readable arguments for both yourself and the player's club.

Is it clearer now?

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:47 am**

The lesson here is to be a massive insufferable dick at every waking moment that way you don’t commit the crime of coming across as condescending.

Posted: **Mon Nov 13, 2023 1:50 am**

i dislike that the conversation has degenerated to comparing someone that tries their damn hardest to be nice to someone who spends their time getting a rise out of people getting angry

viro is consistently and purposefully condescending 24/7. i dont think i particularly give any fucking shits about trying to weigh the scales against someone that was just trying to be nice

/tg/Station 13

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