/tg/Station 13

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The Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pm

The Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:30 pm Alright then, fuck analogies. What if Sinful says "I never sent a message saying I wanted to cause admin burnout." How, exactly, could he prove it to you? What actions taken would be sufficient? If you can't think of any actions, or the actions are infeasible like "sending his entire discord history," then it means that Sinful can't prove his own innocence.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:30 pm

kinnebian wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:23 pm this is a retarded analogy please come back with a better one

Alright then, fuck analogies. What if Sinful says "I never sent a message saying I wanted to cause admin burnout." How, exactly, could he prove it to you? What actions taken would be sufficient? If you can't think of any actions, or the actions are infeasible like "sending his entire discord history," then it means that Sinful can't prove his own innocence.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 10:21 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 9:34 pm They could always send the evidence to their pals to share or something.

Well, for this kind of thing there might not be evidence of their innocence. Allow me to give an example: Bob is accusing Mary of sending a discord message saying "I hate cats." Mary says that she never sent a message like that. How exactly can Mary prove that she never sent that message? As far as I can tell, the only way would be to somehow give pull full access to her discord history, so people can comb through it and confirm that the message isn't there. Obviously that isn't feasible. Bob, meanwhile, can easily provide evidence just by showing the one message that says "I hate cats."

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:26 pm after getting some details from sinful i can say that (if these details are true) that the current headmin team is absolutely fucking bonkers.
like spending hours of their time digging up enough information to ban people because they are literal fucking drama vampires bonkers. (this includes the recent admin deadminning and sun catton permaing)

literally none of this is as bad as vekter or any purple name says it is.

if i'm missing any info here feel free to clear it up for me otherwise i'll see yall when the red names are gone

Thunder11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:22 pm It’s not a matter of proof or lack of proof at this point. It’s a blacklist, it was placed at MSO's pleasure and it will be removed only at MSO's pleasure.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:26 pm Seems like there’s some evidence here that could work. Surely.

∃x∈D, such that P(x)

∀x∈D, ~P(x)

GPeckman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:44 pm -snip-

c4g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:06 pm i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

Armhulen wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:08 pm

The Spessmen Times wrote:Prohibition agent Sam Salamander bragged that he could find a metacord in any server in under 30 minutes. In Bagil it took him 21 minutes. In Sybil 17 minutes, and Manuel just 11 minutes. But Terry set the record of 35 seconds. Sam asked an assistant on the arrivals shuttle where to get a discord invite, and the assistant linked him one.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:44 pm

Thunder11 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:22 pm It’s not a matter of proof or lack of proof at this point. It’s a blacklist, it was placed at MSO's pleasure and it will be removed only at MSO's pleasure.

The blacklist itself is entirely at MSO's discretion, yes. But that's a separate issue from people actually being convinced of Sinful's guilt.

NoxVS wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 11:26 pm Seems like there’s some evidence here that could work. Surely.

There really isn't any way for Sinful to prove his innocence except through exhaustion (sending his full discord history), and there's actually a mathematical reason why.

Warning: math. Abandon all hope, ye' who enter here!

► Show Spoiler

So, the reason Sinful is banned is that he allegedly sent a discord message saying he was trying to make admins burn out. In terms of boolean algebra:

Code: Select all

∃x∈D, such that P(x)

(In normal English: "The exists at least one of Sinful's discord messages for which P is true.")
Where D, the domain, is the set of all discord messages Sinful has ever sent, and P is a function that returns true if the input message x if the message says that Sinful wants admins to burn out. If Sinful wanted to prove his innocence, he'd have to prove this statement false. Proving a statement like this false is equivalent to proving the statement's negation true, and the negation of this statement is:

Code: Select all

∀x∈D, ~P(x)

(In normal English: "For all of Sinful's discord messages, P is false")
In other words he'd have to prove that none of his discord messages actually show that he wanted to make admins burn out.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:07 am Fuck your math boy because the P probability sinful made an admin want to shrivel up into a peanut and fucking die is 1, it's just about finding out whether that was the intent that this is all about

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:01 am i mean if those two wanted to show that all these accusations are toootally overblown and jumped-up like the avatar of christmas here claims they could just, like, ask kendrickorium to post the discord logs of what they were actually saying in this discussion on their metacord since it seems theyre still on speaking terms.

Its not like its top secret documents where nobody ever is allowed to see, its their own discord conversation.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:23 am Also pro tip for any prospective metagangs trying to break out onto the scene(or was it break into the scene?) theres a dedicated metagaming channel called #tgstation on IRC and its free and its much more secure than dis(FBI)cord(Backdoor). Of course you wont use it because you cant pollute the chat with brain numbing image macros.

Armhulen wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:14 am You should all be very scared now that double permabans are on the table. Who knows? Triple permabans aren't so crazy now either.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 12:01 am i mean if those two wanted to show that all these accusations are toootally overblown and jumped-up like the avatar of christmas here claims they could just, like, ask kendrickorium to post the discord logs of what they were actually saying in this discussion on their metacord since it seems theyre still on speaking terms.

Its not like its top secret documents where nobody ever is allowed to see, its their own discord conversation.

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:44 pm

Heyitsohjay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:24 pm we need to give these two a proper funeral a la terry

Dude I'm out of doors

DATAxPUNGED wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 1:53 am

oranges wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:44 pm

Heyitsohjay wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 6:24 pm we need to give these two a proper funeral a la terry

Dude I'm out of doors

why is andy and leyley there

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:26 pm

c4g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:06 pm i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

yup pretty sad

MSO is known for making quick decision banning so i don't even blame him

after getting some details from sinful i can say that (if these details are true) that the current headmin team is absolutely fucking bonkers.
like spending hours of their time digging up enough information to ban people because they are literal fucking drama vampires bonkers. (this includes the recent admin deadminning and sun catton permaing)

literally none of this is as bad as vekter or any purple name says it is.

if i'm missing any info here feel free to clear it up for me otherwise i'll see yall when the red names are gone

>sinful and pepper now have more time for shiptest

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 5:51 pmlol

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:26 pm :words:

c4g wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 8:06 pm i hope im next at this point. i havent even done anything but i hope they find something to get me banned. make something up for all i care. if they're gonna go down the line banning deadminning and blacklisting all my friends then whats the fucking point of being here. waiting to see who's next to go? hanging out with everyone celebrating them being gone? i fucking hate this

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:21 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:23 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:21 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I trust you have very specific reasons for being so mad at them then, other than just disliking their attitude in general?

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:27 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:23 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:21 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

How about you legitimately shut the fuck up for once, I'm done with this fucking stupid bullshit of people defending sinfulbliss and pepper and I have VERY BLOODY GOOD REASONS FOR BEING SO PISSED RIGHT NOW.

I trust you have very specific reasons for being so mad at them then, other than just disliking their attitude in general?

It's a very personal matter to me I can't reveal for now because apparently headmins want to release more info later.

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:31 am Listen, if it's some genuine thing like doxxing, threats, actual targeted derogatory harassment, or something else of that magnitude, fair enough.

But if it's just some vague thing like "they wanted to make the forums a hostile environment to admins," I am not buying that concept.

With the lack of information, other than the blacklist reasons, and the other circumstances surrounding previous actions by those two, and other previous ban reasons, I don't think you can blame anyone for assuming that it's the 2nd option.

SuperNovaa41 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:30 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Its odd that you would take this stance considering you don't know the entire story, which is very clear based off of.. all of the posts in this thread.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:38 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:31 am Listen, if it's some genuine thing like doxxing, threats, actual targeted derogatory harassment, or something else of that magnitude, fair enough.

But if it's just some vague thing like "they wanted to make the forums a hostile environment to admins," I am not buying that concept.

With the lack of information, other than the blacklist reasons, and the other circumstances surrounding previous actions by those two, and other previous ban reasons, I don't think you can blame anyone for assuming that it's the 2nd option.

I obviously can't go that in-depth with it, but it was actual targeted derogatory harassment, to the degree of people explicitly discussing the best way to make the appeals process harder so that a specific admin (who I will not name) would quit because they don't like how they handle things.

MSO is an asshole, but he doesn't blacklist people for goofy hearsay reasons - there is evidence, I've seen it, hopefully the headmins release it but I don't know if they will, it's credible enough that what happened was necessary. I'm telling you this as someone who did not participate in the process in the slightest - I am fully aware that my dislike of Sinful makes this hard to believe, but no, I didn't actively go out of my way to get him banned, nor did I even participate beyond attempts to help other admins in the appeals process.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:13 am Huh?

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:38 am

SuperNovaa41 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:30 am

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:14 am Terminally online admins who live off of drama convincing MSO to blacklist people just because they had a personal slight against them? Why am I not surprised...
(Before anyone who claims "It was COORDINATED HARASSMENT"... trying to claim that a few flippant remarks about dissenting against the admin team's opinion, is harassment... is ridiculous)

In all sincerity, this trend is so common at this point over the past 5 years, that it's really made it hard to get invested in the community the same way as in the past. There's always going to be drama, shit-flinging, and grudges in any online gaming community (believe me, that's always been an issue here), but I really think certain admins are doing no favors to the health of this community by letting this problem continue to happen time after time.

And yeah, honestly I feel bad making this post. But I feel I need to be candid here about what I keep seeing as a recurring issue.

Its odd that you would take this stance considering you don't know the entire story, which is very clear based off of.. all of the posts in this thread.

Listen, in all fairness, there may be more to it. But based on the given ban reasons, that stance seemed reasonable to the situation. I will gladly retract it when we find out more.

Also even if this particular instance is not an unreasonable ban, and those two actually did do something legitimately shitty, you have to admit there's been far too many problematic drama bans in the past. This looked worryingly like another one of those at first glance.

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned -pepper mint

iansdoor wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 5:00 am

If there's a metagaming group like you claim, the evidence should immediately be sent to the head admins and the players metacomming should be banned -pepper mint

Well, I am terrible at gathering quotes, but she nailed herself with her advice to administration, I reckon.

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 4:38 am Also even if this particular instance is not an unreasonable ban, and those two actually did do something legitimately shitty, you have to admit there's been far too many problematic drama bans in the past. This looked worryingly like another one of those at first glance.