/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

confused rock wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:i can't believe people who spend months volunteering their time to make something that the community can enjoy seasonally get upset when a select few go out of their way to try and ruin it for others by spoiling surprises

crazy concept

Mfw (my face when) people all go with the narrative of ATH being actively malicious instead of him having just screwed up because that narrative makes them feel better about banning him

confused rock wrote: Mfw (my face when) people all go with the narrative of ATH being actively malicious instead of him having just screwed up because that narrative makes them feel better about banning him

Athath wrote: To clarify what happened here:
While I was codediving the non-map file parts of the game show testmerge PR (https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/59825), I noticed that the names of the PR's map files blatantly gave away the names and sequence of the game show's events. I posted about this in the #mapping-general channel on /tg/cord alongside a screenshot that contained 2-3 of the spoiling file names, similar to the one below (I'd post the original, but it looks like it's been deleted):

Dominitius wrote:I was aware of your discord ban and from what I understood it was related to leaking event details intentionally.

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:These are largely cases of you using exploits in-game, which to be fair is not what happened here, still the fact its related to what I'd generally call you using coding knowledge in a generally detrimental way i.e spoiling the event's round order and offering potential exploits in twitch chat while the event is going on.

FloranOtten wrote:God, this ban really reveals a lot about certain janitors.

It's just been a constant loop of "He was exploiting bugs in the event! look he has a history of exploits!" and orange man going "No he wasn't." It's really telling that the only people attacking him are purple names who have never had to interact with him from the position of a player, be it as the person who played game, the person who spams forums all day, a redditor, an alex or a manuelmin.

HAIL THE SUPREME LEADER by the way. Some of y'all are CONSPIRACY THEORISTS who keep thinking we keep voting a tyrannical overlord into place, then being deathly scared of praising him. He's won three "elections", lads, if he wasn't ruling adminbus with an iron fist he wouldn't have been so popular.

Coconutwarrior97 wrote: The code is open source, but that doesn't mean you should be spreading information about the specifics of the event order in public channels.

Athath wrote:"public channels" is misleading; that was #mapping-general, which I assumed was a safe place to discuss upcoming events in, as it'd be pretty silly if we forced our mappers to spoiler every single image they posted there that was related to the event they were working on. Again, if you get spoiled because you entered and read messages in a channel labeled "#mapbus" (or whatever it's currently called) the day before a game show that CitrusGender has repeatedly announced (with @everyone pings) that we have had our mapping team greatly contribute to is due to take place, it's your own damn fault. Maybe we should make an #events-general channel or something to avoid this kind of thing.

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:Mapping-general is indeed a public channel, given how anyone can view/post in it. Also there is in fact an events-bus channel where stuff like this sort of thing is discussed in-depth. Hence why discussing event order in mapping-general was considered to be spoiling the event for others. I fail to see how this part is misleading.

Fikou wrote: S: I'm going to challenge the code divers for the next event, because I have something that I haven't even told Arm about that guarantees that they won't be able to dive shit. It'll take at least three hours this time! (laughs)

A: There was some stuff in the original Summer Ball that I thought wouldn't be uncovered for awhile. It ended up being uncovered legitimately, but faster than I thought it'd be. I thought I'd go even further, but I think I've learned that there's no point in really doing that stuff, and the best way to hide a secret is to lock it in a very challenging area.

iwishforducks wrote: "But ATH fixes so many bugs!!!" and then the maintainers go "no". there is almost zero discussion to be had here. the Mega Racist Forum Users (MRFUs) just keep saying the same shit over and over again

MooCow12 wrote:

iwishforducks wrote: "But ATH fixes so many bugs!!!" and then the maintainers go "no". there is almost zero discussion to be had here. the Mega Racist Forum Users (MRFUs) just keep saying the same shit over and over again

They said "no" to him reviewing a ton of prs and preventing bugs from being merged in the first place, there actually is evidence that athath has fixed bugs every now and then that still stands from the other thread, thats why it still hasnt been brought up.

Pandarenic wrote:So I took a few examples for comparison, going by the admins.txt, written as
[Fix PRs Opened] since [year] -- [per-year average, round any decimal up]
Obviously there's some jank, since I'm not actually counting 2021 as its existing half of a year. If someone would like to adjust to to account for the half-year not counted, or whatever, feel free, you have all the data necessary, but I cbf because I didn't think about it until the end.

Actioninja: 87 since 2019 -- 44
AnturK: 809(!) since 2014 -- 115
Cyberboss: 786(!) since 2016 -- 158
Denton: 128 since 2018 -- 43
Fikou: 117 since 2019 - 59
MrStonedOne: 261 since 2015 -- 53
NinjaNomNom: 148 since 2017 -- 37
Optimumtact (Oranges): 156 since 2015 -- 26
ShizCalev: 842(!) since 2017 -- 211(!?)

And for good measure, iamgoofball: 115 since 2015 -- 20

Incidentally, I'm pretty happy that I went in alphabetical order down the TXT and the ridiculously high numbers from AnturK, Cyberboxx, and ShizCalev came in escalating per-year fix count. With 3 of them, I hesitate to even call them outlier figures.

So our sorted dataset, for per-year fix PRs, is
211
158
115
59
53
[I couldn't find ATHATH's git name at a glance to verify, but allegedly the 45 goes here]
44
43
37
26

Obviously, this doesn't mean sufficiently prolific coders should get to do Whatever They Want - even ShizCalev would cop a ban for doing something fucky enough.

Fikou wrote:long interview

MMMiracles wrote:
mfw we've had to add extra logging measures and remove particular mechanics in past events because of ath and others like him who've done this more than once

Pandarsenic wrote: instead of silently expecting people not to look at your Cool Thing You Made?

Stickymayhem wrote:man this is sad and fucking sucks thanks for the years of hard work pkp and the event people deserve better

jesus i wish there was a way to remove the last vestiges of toxicity from this community there really is just this small core of people that fuck everything up for sheer pleasure. where would they even go these days if they weren't allowed here?

god just be fucking people in a community you literally dont have to be nice or chill or anything you can be a cunt to EVERYONE.

All you have to do ALL YOU HAVE TO DO is not deliberately maximize the amount of frustration and hurt you cause to other people over the internet. That's the fucking pathetically low standard, and we have a vestigial core of absolute cunts that does nothing but fail to meet that.

iwishforducks wrote:e

FloranOtten wrote:God, this ban really reveals a lot about resident forumposters.

It's just been a constant loop of "But he was fixing exploits after finding them! Look at the fix PRs!" and maintainers going "No he wasn't." It's really telling that the only people defending him are folks who have never had to interact with him from any position of authority, be it as the person who PR'd, the person who mapped it, a maintainer, an admin or a headmin.

FloranOtten wrote:It's really telling that the only people defending him are folks who have never had to interact with him from any position of authority, be it as the person who PR'd, the person who mapped it, a maintainer, an admin or a headmin.

CitrusGender wrote:perhaps it's my only serious post on the subject but I've been pretty hands off with this one since I don't particularly know athath's history and I don't particularly care enough

the intention of the event was to keep things extremely chaotic and I was more concerned with getting people to help out rather than keeping it completely secret so this part of the entire thing may have slipped away from me (though, this was somewhat of a direct choice)

I did run a test round on terry but fikou is right, I didn't particularly want anyone to know the order of the events: though it is true we could have not shown it on a public repo (though ultimately I was aware of that and honestly, what can u do: it didn't matter to me that much since I was more caring about making the code accessible to people who want to help: hiding it would impede that)

ultimately I'm more sad that this situation afterwards got more coverage and comments than the actual event itself, if people spent all their time typing about the situation: they could have made lines and lines of code for the event (no matter how good or bad you are at coding) so I just ultimately find it kinda sad that my last event has some controversy.

this stuff is honestly rather separate from eventbus though

I'm probably gonna make a thread about event-bus succession here in a sec so i just wanted to say that here at least: i don't particularly want to answer any questions about the subject but I'll spare a serious post here

HiKewne wrote:

CitrusGender wrote:perhaps it's my only serious post on the subject but I've been pretty hands off with this one since I don't particularly know athath's history and I don't particularly care enough

the intention of the event was to keep things extremely chaotic and I was more concerned with getting people to help out rather than keeping it completely secret so this part of the entire thing may have slipped away from me (though, this was somewhat of a direct choice)

I did run a test round on terry but fikou is right, I didn't particularly want anyone to know the order of the events: though it is true we could have not shown it on a public repo (though ultimately I was aware of that and honestly, what can u do: it didn't matter to me that much since I was more caring about making the code accessible to people who want to help: hiding it would impede that)

ultimately I'm more sad that this situation afterwards got more coverage and comments than the actual event itself, if people spent all their time typing about the situation: they could have made lines and lines of code for the event (no matter how good or bad you are at coding) so I just ultimately find it kinda sad that my last event has some controversy.

this stuff is honestly rather separate from eventbus though

I'm probably gonna make a thread about event-bus succession here in a sec so i just wanted to say that here at least: i don't particularly want to answer any questions about the subject but I'll spare a serious post here

in my defense I don't know how to code, I've never known how to code, the best code I ever did was trying to make excel run a couple of formulas and I even failed at that

CitrusGender wrote:snip

Flatulent wrote:Sigma Rule #31: lock appeal threads without solid justification
power abuse grindset | ban all players
@janitorelectiontips

HiKewne wrote:I just don't get what the scandal is all about, sure people like athath will go codediving, and talk about it in mapping general, and even if that's the case I don't really believe it spoils the surprise for like... People who don't even use the discord at all? People who don't go through those channels? He also said he will quit doing so, because, again, this is something he has always done due to him being a code nerd and just being interested in what possibly funny unexpected thing he can pull off.

Again, I'm not trying to imply this as me not giving a damn but it's not like he was writing in all caps in discussion general or in IC OOC every single secret there is, or spamming in every single channel what he knew. From what I get he only directly theorized about it during the twitch chat and... Got banned because of that? Because it was.. Giving some advantage to people who were looking at the twitch chat? Because he has a history of exploits and whatnot? When in reality the only really valid one, that caused a purely negative experience, was just him with the whole server lagging move, and that's it.

I honestly don't believe that moving to a permanent ban is a reasonable move, and much less closing the argument because he already made up his mind.

Like, even if he actually did something bad, he did it in the least mean way possible. Was ATH being retarded? Maybe. Did he mean it with bad intentions? I don't think so, and it didn't show like he tried to cause any real harm, neither to the mappers, to the players, or anyone else.

Hell you all hate on him and while he's just mad that this all came out of nowhere overnight and he had to dig through a 3rd party to know why he was banned in the first place, and when he tried to appeal his own ban he barely managed to get an answer in before the admin closed the thread. I would say he's right to be mad, and even then he's being very civil about this, and he has apologized about what has happened, he has made clear that he doesn't see the situation as the mappers or others do, which would explain why he did it in the first place, but he has also made a good will effort to 1: Not do it again out of respect of their views and 2: apologize due to what happened

I just don't get it

[youtube]OHmmjnEdtx8[/youtube]

Whoneedspacee wrote:
Can someone give the counterargument to this I'm pretty interested to see the logic behind it.

technokek wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:

technokek wrote:
or his maps :^)

talking a lot of shit for someone in tram distance

The tram that I broke at round start?

technokek wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:

technokek wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:

technokek wrote:
or his maps :^)

talking a lot of shit for someone in tram distance

The tram that I broke at round start?

hopefully as an antag, or else that'd be considered station grief and is a bannable offense, according to more than one game master bucko

i have never been bwoinked and it will never happen and also i just wanted to bring the recycler to arrivals for the chef to use it was a accident.

Farquaar wrote:Last I checked, this ban isn’t about Tramstation.

chocolate_bickie wrote:

Farquaar wrote:Last I checked, this ban isn’t about Tramstation.

This is Off Topic

MrStonedOne wrote:Global Forum Rules:

When in doubt about any of these rules, ask the mods.
1. No spam. (Contentless posts, repeated posts, off topic posts)

• IE: when you post: think: "what will this post bring to the conversation".
  Posts only designed to antagonize or otherwise escalate the situation are generally considered spam. Try to be civil about your grievances

Jordie0608 wrote:Off-Topic Board Rules
When in doubt about any of these rules, ask the mods.
1.) Global Forum rules apply

technokek wrote:

MMMiracles wrote:this is now a tramstation thread please air out any grievances you have with the map

also if you see someone actively griefing the tram (blocking it off, spam calling it, ect) ahelp it, antags are free to do as they please but shitters doing this as non-antags ruin the map for everyone else and general admin consensus is yes this is griefing.

I seriously wish that was enforced then. Most tram rounds just devolve into shittery doing exactly that.
I am speaking only for terry rounds.

Cobby wrote:Was it in the stream somewhere that you’re not allowed to armchair strategize or what? I don’t get that piece.

Is events bus visible to non eventers? Seems like a case of “admin has access to info the player doesn’t have” but ooc. At the very least that didn’t seem malicious when you could prob point to several other more sketchy actions.

Reruns of “you could have banned this user but you chose a really rusty final nail” is very yikers, especially if looking at it historically it makes them that much harder to ban afterwards (because the ban doesn’t stick)

Agux909 wrote:Damn. Even the very event organizer didn't/doesn't take issue with the secrecy of the whole thing. And more than players being able to exploit stuff to their advantage they were worried about having enough people contributing and the event as a whole being held together to the end. Fascinating.

I wonder where this whole "ruining the event" idea even came from. As posts keep piling up it looks more and more evidently like something pulled out from an ass to justify a ruling. I mean, for if it wasn't clear enough already from the previous thread, lol.

Agux909 wrote:Damn. Even the very event organizer didn't/doesn't take issue with the secrecy of the whole thing. And more than players being able to exploit stuff to their advantage they were worried about having enough people contributing and the event as a whole being held together to the end. Fascinating.

I wonder where this whole "ruining the event" idea even came from. As posts keep piling up it looks more and more evidently like something pulled out from an ass to justify a ruling. I mean, for if it wasn't clear enough already from the previous thread, lol.