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https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... 42#p591042I'd like to see a pros and consjackrip wrote:can we get back to how murderbone is actually good for the playerbase, i have a few points i want to bring up
go ahead it's your peanutjackrip wrote:can we get back to how murderbone is actually good for the playerbase, i have a few points i want to bring up
a good post by mr alphonzo in a world of turmoilMrAlphonzo wrote:[youtube]lPGipwoJiOM[/youtube]
You've reached a Le Fishe checkpoint, anon. Congrats on making it this far into the thread. Pull up a seat, and take a break before you continue on your journey.
that graph shows a man who has 500-1000 ping on average scoring the same as me. so if that data is to be believed any kind of traitoring at all is going to kill the population buckoRaveRadbury wrote:jackrip wrote:can we get back to how murderbone is actually good for the playerbase, i have a few points i want to bring up
"murderbone is beneficial"jackrip wrote:that graph shows a man who has 500-1000 ping on average scoring the same as me. so if that data is to be believed any kind of traitoring at all is going to kill the population buckoRaveRadbury wrote:jackrip wrote:can we get back to how murderbone is actually good for the playerbase, i have a few points i want to bring upSpoiler:
also 15%? That aint even bad
jackrip wrote:okay this is specifically directed to oranges no one else look at it please
murderbone inspires certain players
1. i admired lexia black coming up and their sprees inspired me to become a better gamer
2. others have told me the same thing about their experiences
it may not help everyone get better, a lot of people might completely hate it, but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
Jaredfogle wrote: You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't. If you want a game that is actually designed around TDM, I suggest TGMC.
case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
I get uhhhhhhhh, these kinda vibes here:NoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
no murderbone is good because its murderbone and its goodNoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
Uhm actuallyArmhulen wrote:go ahead it's your peanutjackrip wrote:can we get back to how murderbone is actually good for the playerbase, i have a few points i want to bring up
It shall never end, and I wouldn’t want it any other wayMisdoubtful wrote:I get uhhhhhhhh, these kinda vibes here:NoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
'A self-fulfilling prophecy is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes it will[1] and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.'
If we murderbone and expect its what people want because they also murderbone in turn meaning that others will murderbone, where will the cycle stop?
I want people to be robust enough to not need spears or bolasJaredfogle wrote:okay, it looks like what i said earlier still holds true then:
Jaredfogle wrote: You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't. If you want a game that is actually designed around TDM, I suggest TGMC.
Maybe its good, maybe its bad — and maybe certain bone is healthy and fun and maybe others are miserable and bad for rounds!thehogshotgun wrote:It shall never end, and I wouldn’t want it any other wayMisdoubtful wrote:I get uhhhhhhhh, these kinda vibes here:NoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
'A self-fulfilling prophecy is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes it will[1] and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.'
If we murderbone and expect its what people want because they also murderbone in turn meaning that others will murderbone, where will the cycle stop?
These kind of people make better antags which then makes people need spears or bolas.jackrip wrote:I want people to be robust enough to not need spears or bolas
There isn’t much reason to my belief, the weak will be conquered by the strong, if they do not become more robust. I don’t care about the weak, I am an objectivist manifest. If I may raise others to the position of murderboner I see that as a happy side effect, not a goal.Misdoubtful wrote:Maybe its good, maybe its bad — and maybe certain bone is healthy and fun and maybe others are miserable and bad for rounds!thehogshotgun wrote:It shall never end, and I wouldn’t want it any other wayMisdoubtful wrote:I get uhhhhhhhh, these kinda vibes here:NoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
'A self-fulfilling prophecy is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes it will[1] and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.'
If we murderbone and expect its what people want because they also murderbone in turn meaning that others will murderbone, where will the cycle stop?
But, the idea that it would make good players that in reality HAVE to be geared, gaming, or murderbone themselves (to either counter getting boned or kill people that WILL kill them) feels like a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme.
Tlaltecuhtli wrote:there are more people leaving cause of mapvote forcing kilo or after fastmos made rounds unbearable but i guess the coder copers are looking for a scapegoat on why pop globally lost like 20%
oranges wrote: holy shit are you actually stupid, did you even understand the modelling in the graph they posted? It's the percentage of people who leave in a round where someone is traitor, not a global decline in playerbase.
I know assistant mains are stupid but this is really taking the cake
spessman game social darwinismthehogshotgun wrote:There isn’t much reason to my belief, the weak will be conquered by the strong, if they do not become more robust. I don’t care about the weak, I am an objectivist manifest. If I may raise others to the position of murderboner I see that as a happy side effect, not a goal.Misdoubtful wrote:Maybe its good, maybe its bad — and maybe certain bone is healthy and fun and maybe others are miserable and bad for rounds!thehogshotgun wrote:It shall never end, and I wouldn’t want it any other wayMisdoubtful wrote:I get uhhhhhhhh, these kinda vibes here:NoxVS wrote:case closed gangjackrip wrote:a lot of people might completely hate it
"murderbone is good because it inspires people to murderbone"jackrip wrote:but there will absolutely be people inspired by the talent and want to become better themselves.
if you combo that with actual training (teaching people in boxing ring, holodeck, etc) you can teach a significant part of the community how to fight. and you might even make some turbo gamers out of it
'A self-fulfilling prophecy is the sociopsychological phenomenon of someone "predicting" or expecting something, and this "prediction" or expectation coming true simply because the person believes it will[1] and the person's resulting behaviors align to fulfill the belief.'
If we murderbone and expect its what people want because they also murderbone in turn meaning that others will murderbone, where will the cycle stop?
But, the idea that it would make good players that in reality HAVE to be geared, gaming, or murderbone themselves (to either counter getting boned or kill people that WILL kill them) feels like a Bernie Madoff ponzi scheme.
jackrip wrote:it just has the side effect of making great gamers. would bruce wayne have become batman if his parents hadn't been shot in the face in front of his stupid little rich kid eyes
You are autistic. This is a diagnosis. Take Risperidone.jackrip wrote:I want people to be robust enough to not need spears or bolasJaredfogle wrote:okay, it looks like what i said earlier still holds true then:
Jaredfogle wrote: You seem to be under the fallacy that reinforcing that Bagil is a TDM shithole where you must carry bolas and spears on you at all times, while looking for the next valid to hunt down is a positive change to the server. I don't. The data suggests other people don't. If you want a game that is actually designed around TDM, I suggest TGMC.
Nah man, they'd never do something like that. All they want to do is kill your parents and turn you into the next batman LOLXDTM wrote:If i were to be uncharitable i'd imagine that what makes SS13 a superior platform for murderboners is the abundance of unskilled people to serve as victims, and the increased "significance" of killing, since they're irl locked out of the round for a significant amount of time once killed.
cos murderboning is difficult and fun cos of all the systems and all the ways people can interact to kill the murderboner. also what about if we had some sort of machine that remade peoples bodies at full health so they could quickly get back into a round? Maybe like cloning perhaps?XDTM wrote:I really don't understand what would make SS13 attactive for deathmatch gameplay, if you want to defeat a serverful of players the whole battle royale genre is pretty much perfect for the murderbone mentality of one-vs-everyone, and there's several with varying combat mechanics to choose from. And being games focused on that combat, those mechanics are in most cases better developed and balanced than a laggy byond-based atmos simulator.
If i were to be uncharitable i'd imagine that what makes SS13 a superior platform for murderboners is the abundance of unskilled people to serve as victims, and the increased "significance" of killing, since they're irl locked out of the round for a significant amount of time once killed.
this is a pretty good example on how constant daily murderboning necessitates worse design and a worse game if you don't nip the bud ?Naloac wrote:cos murderboning is difficult and fun cos of all the systems and all the ways people can interact to kill the murderboner. also what about if we had some sort of machine that remade peoples bodies at full health so they could quickly get back into a round? Maybe like cloning perhaps?XDTM wrote:I really don't understand what would make SS13 attactive for deathmatch gameplay, if you want to defeat a serverful of players the whole battle royale genre is pretty much perfect for the murderbone mentality of one-vs-everyone, and there's several with varying combat mechanics to choose from. And being games focused on that combat, those mechanics are in most cases better developed and balanced than a laggy byond-based atmos simulator.
If i were to be uncharitable i'd imagine that what makes SS13 a superior platform for murderboners is the abundance of unskilled people to serve as victims, and the increased "significance" of killing, since they're irl locked out of the round for a significant amount of time once killed.
thisCastorTroy23 wrote:Another game master janitor who thinks he can do what he wants because of his boomer role
Can't you read the thread? The best shifts are the ones where the most crew survives and the only people dead were directly required to be killed by the traitor for their objective, who the traitor then brought to robotics where they had a pre-waiting shell ready for them. This maximizes the RP time that everyone can spend in the bar fleshing out their very unique and memorable characters, like Doug the black haired white assistant who enjoys baccus blessing and crafting spears.Farquaar wrote:The best shifts are the ones that end with the station utterly destroyed and >75% of the crew dead. Both to watch, and to play.
As everyone knows, in SS13 rounds are either bar-rp greenshifts or everyone getting killed by a greyshirt in a gasmask twenty minutes in, there is no such thing as a healthy balanceNabski wrote:Can't you read the thread? The best shifts are the ones where the most crew survives and the only people dead were directly required to be killed by the traitor for their objective, who the traitor then brought to robotics where they had a pre-waiting shell ready for them. This maximizes the RP time that everyone can spend in the bar fleshing out their very unique and memorable characters, like Doug the black haired white assistant who enjoys baccus blessing and crafting spears.Farquaar wrote:The best shifts are the ones that end with the station utterly destroyed and >75% of the crew dead. Both to watch, and to play.
I know, right? I say that systematically removing everyone from being able to play the game solely because you are free to do so is harmful to the server, and all of the sudden there are a bunch of people who barely even play anymore come crawling out from who knows where to say that I just want constant greenshifts and am incapable of surviving more than 5 minutes outside the barXDTM wrote:As everyone knows, in SS13 rounds are either bar-rp greenshifts or everyone getting killed by a greyshirt in a gasmask twenty minutes in, there is no such thing as a healthy balanceNabski wrote:Can't you read the thread? The best shifts are the ones where the most crew survives and the only people dead were directly required to be killed by the traitor for their objective, who the traitor then brought to robotics where they had a pre-waiting shell ready for them. This maximizes the RP time that everyone can spend in the bar fleshing out their very unique and memorable characters, like Doug the black haired white assistant who enjoys baccus blessing and crafting spears.Farquaar wrote:The best shifts are the ones that end with the station utterly destroyed and >75% of the crew dead. Both to watch, and to play.
UnrobustNoxVS wrote:I know, right? I say that systematically removing everyone from being able to play the game solely because you are free to do so is harmful to the server, and all of the sudden there are a bunch of people who barely even play anymore come crawling out from who knows where to say that I just want constant greenshifts and am incapable of surviving more than 5 minutes outside the barXDTM wrote:As everyone knows, in SS13 rounds are either bar-rp greenshifts or everyone getting killed by a greyshirt in a gasmask twenty minutes in, there is no such thing as a healthy balanceNabski wrote:Can't you read the thread? The best shifts are the ones where the most crew survives and the only people dead were directly required to be killed by the traitor for their objective, who the traitor then brought to robotics where they had a pre-waiting shell ready for them. This maximizes the RP time that everyone can spend in the bar fleshing out their very unique and memorable characters, like Doug the black haired white assistant who enjoys baccus blessing and crafting spears.Farquaar wrote:The best shifts are the ones that end with the station utterly destroyed and >75% of the crew dead. Both to watch, and to play.
There can be fun rounds with a fuckton of chaos. There can be fun rounds without much happening. The chaotic rounds stop being fun when the threat is some guy who has been burnt out and should have quit or become an admin ages ago, but is instead using the lamest methods to guarantee they can keep as many people as possible from playing the game. The slower rounds stop being fun when literally nothing is happening or the only threat is an antag who decided to be friendly and join security. Neither are fun for anyone except a single person.
This is what happens when you mix the current attempt to codify murderbone into rule legalese (the one in the MRP rules) with bad faith.Nabski wrote:Can't you read the thread? The best shifts are the ones where the most crew survives and the only people dead were directly required to be killed by the traitor for their objective, who the traitor then brought to robotics where they had a pre-waiting shell ready for them. This maximizes the RP time that everyone can spend in the bar fleshing out their very unique and memorable characters, like Doug the black haired white assistant who enjoys baccus blessing and crafting spears.Farquaar wrote:The best shifts are the ones that end with the station utterly destroyed and >75% of the crew dead. Both to watch, and to play.
I like plasmafires. I enjoy dying in a fruitless last stand against an army of spiders. I enjoy watching the lone survivor of a ruined station find an escape pod while the bad guy is looking for him. I giggle like a madman when a wizard blows me to pieces with a fireball for literally no reason other than because he can. And yes, I enjoy running for my life while a crazed serial killer chases me down.NoxVS wrote:There can be fun rounds with a fuckton of chaos. There can be fun rounds without much happening. The chaotic rounds stop being fun when the threat is some guy who has been burnt out and should have quit or become an admin ages ago, but is instead using the lamest methods to guarantee they can keep as many people as possible from playing the game. The slower rounds stop being fun when literally nothing is happening or the only threat is an antag who decided to be friendly and join security. Neither are fun for anyone except a single person.
Bingo.Jaredfogle wrote:This is what happens when you mix the current attempt to codify murderbone into rule legalese (the one in the MRP rules) with bad faith.
#notallgamemastersCastorTroy23 wrote:Another game master janitor who thinks he can do what he wants because of his boomer role
