/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

Forum poster newbie makes shitty thread title

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:43 pm

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:29 pm It's cool, you're not posting in bad faith specifically to stir up drama like Sinful was in those appeals. You're nowhere near breaking the rules; mere genuine and good-faith disagreement is fine and even being incorrect is fine as long as you're not doing it to intentionally stoke up drama in bad faith.

Even Ekaterina didn't get banned and it was often difficult to figure out if they were being sincere or just a professional troll.

It's nice of you to say that, but all it takes is one forum admin disagreeing with your opinion to earn me a warning, and those add up, no matter how slowly.

i'm not gonna give you a warning for disagreeing and defending your stance you are allowed to do this.

people get warnings for being shitheads. you are being very sincere and you should be able to speak your mind about what you believe without worrying that we've got jannie shooters deployed on the rooftops, you're good dude.

saprasam wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm i'd be worried too if the headmin team were to comb through an entire discord server's messages just to find dirt, & then when you try to appeal it, the appeal is instantly hidden from the public eye & they say it is all disinformation & lies & don't say anything about why that is
granted it IS a blacklist, but it's just baffling to me the way this is handled

sinful's appeal was posted in this thread and no one has asked me to sweep it or done it themselves:
the appeal was moved to a forum for MSO to review posts that regular users can't see. only he deals with blacklists. it wasn't deleted.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

You're next for turning that note into a towerpost

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

this is funnier hte second time.

pepper really got memory holed except as sinfuls +1 to the forever farm in this thread

cSeal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:51 am pepper really got memory holed except as sinfuls +1 to the forever farm in this thread

After reading quite a bit, I find that awfully true statement. Perhaps the forum title needs replaced to correct said development so far. "Sinful's last worry made into reality by asking Host for help..... plus Pepper" or something along those lines.

iansdoor wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 7:02 am

cSeal wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 6:51 am pepper really got memory holed except as sinfuls +1 to the forever farm in this thread

After reading quite a bit, I find that awfully true statement. Perhaps the forum title needs replaced to correct said development so far. "Sinful's last worry made into reality by asking Host for help..... plus Pepper" or something along those lines.

i prefer the left twix right twix title we have now thanks

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:21 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

Page 8!!! In... Uhhh 3 days!

Woo!!

im just especially sad about chadley as well

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

Never thought I'd regret being a homeowner.

kinnebian wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 11:34 am im just especially sad about chadley as well

I was surprised with AlamoTurtle 'cos they never struck me as someone who would do the shit they did the way they did it.

Chadley dissapointed me.

Both their deadminnings bummed me out.

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 4:21 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:55 am

Prussen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 03, 2023 3:53 am

thebleh wrote: ↑Thu Nov 30, 2023 7:59 pm Good riddance.

UHHHH WHATS A TOWER POST???

Its
when
i
talk
like
this

It took the forums dieing for this train to stop.

I'm convinced that if the forums didn't go down we might've made it to page 10, oh well. Now out only hope is for someone to come back and give a controversial-ass take.

literally hitler

BonChoi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:37 am I'm convinced that if the forums didn't go down we might've made it to page 10, oh well. Now out only hope is for someone to come back and give a controversial-ass take.

Don't worry, ekaterina is online.

I thought you blacklisted yourself, turbonerd?

kinnebian wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 12:20 pm I thought you blacklisted yourself, turbonerd?

They wouldn't do it.

he put himself on the blacked list

Nabski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:04 pm holy shit page 5

I am a proud father

I am currently in the hospital and it is questionable between if I am going to be the father of a very premature girl or of nothing.

I am having a time right now. This is not a joke post.

Self Replying is cringe but I figured an update is good.

Things stabilized really well. Like exceeding the doctors expectations well. We had been told that one way or another the baby would be out by Sunday.

We are now being told that aiming for a 28 week delivery is reasonable and later is still better. There is a realistic hope that we can make it to 34 weeks and just have an early deliver rather than a premature deliver, all of with is better than our micro premature delivery which would have had about 30% chance of death and then a 50% chance if they lived to have impairments or not.

Wife's in the hospital until the delivery (which is hopefully two months from now).

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Nabski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:04 pm holy shit page 5

I am a proud father

I am currently in the hospital and it is questionable between if I am going to be the father of a very premature girl or of nothing.

I am having a time right now. This is not a joke post.

Self Replying is cringe but I figured an update is good.

Things stabilized really well. Like exceeding the doctors expectations well. We had been told that one way or another the baby would be out by Sunday.

We are now being told that aiming for a 28 week delivery is reasonable and later is still better. There is a realistic hope that we can make it to 34 weeks and just have an early deliver rather than a premature deliver, all of with is better than our micro premature delivery which would have had about 30% chance of death and then a 50% chance if they lived to have impairments or not.

Wife's in the hospital until the delivery (which is hopefully two months from now).

► Show Spoiler

I have no idea how insurance and such is going to go but I can't imagine a 2 month hospital bill being cheap. The fact that it goes in different calendar years is either going to be good or bad, idk.

relieved to hear the good news - thank you for keeping us updated.

genuinely the best thing to come out of this thread by far. hope all carries on well for you.

yes I am very glad to hear it

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Nabski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:04 pm holy shit page 5

I am a proud father

I am currently in the hospital and it is questionable between if I am going to be the father of a very premature girl or of nothing.

I am having a time right now. This is not a joke post.

Self Replying is cringe but I figured an update is good.

Things stabilized really well. Like exceeding the doctors expectations well. We had been told that one way or another the baby would be out by Sunday.

We are now being told that aiming for a 28 week delivery is reasonable and later is still better. There is a realistic hope that we can make it to 34 weeks and just have an early deliver rather than a premature deliver, all of with is better than our micro premature delivery which would have had about 30% chance of death and then a 50% chance if they lived to have impairments or not.

Wife's in the hospital until the delivery (which is hopefully two months from now).

► Show Spoiler

I have no idea how insurance and such is going to go but I can't imagine a 2 month hospital bill being cheap. The fact that it goes in different calendar years is either going to be good or bad, idk.

now i can safely make the joke that this thread was almost going to be about THREE round removed individuals also really glad to hear things are alright

i'm banning arm from player's club

WAIT IT WAS JUST A JO-

BonChoi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:37 am I'm convinced that if the forums didn't go down we might've made it to page 10, oh well. Now out only hope is for someone to come back and give a controversial-ass take.

None of this would've happened if we'd just removed felinids when we had the chance.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 11:37 am I'm convinced that if the forums didn't go down we might've made it to page 10, oh well. Now out only hope is for someone to come back and give a controversial-ass take.

None of this would've happened if we'd just removed felinids when we had the chance.

Allowing players to play as non-human races was a mistake, lizards were just the opening of the floodgates.

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Nabski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:04 pm holy shit page 5

I am a proud father

I am currently in the hospital and it is questionable between if I am going to be the father of a very premature girl or of nothing.

I am having a time right now. This is not a joke post.

Self Replying is cringe but I figured an update is good.

Things stabilized really well. Like exceeding the doctors expectations well. We had been told that one way or another the baby would be out by Sunday.

We are now being told that aiming for a 28 week delivery is reasonable and later is still better. There is a realistic hope that we can make it to 34 weeks and just have an early deliver rather than a premature deliver, all of with is better than our micro premature delivery which would have had about 30% chance of death and then a 50% chance if they lived to have impairments or not.

Wife's in the hospital until the delivery (which is hopefully two months from now).

► Show Spoiler

I have no idea how insurance and such is going to go but I can't imagine a 2 month hospital bill being cheap. The fact that it goes in different calendar years is either going to be good or bad, idk.

Best of luck.
I'm guessing they're going to try to make you pay two calendar years worth of deductibles but if your plan had maximum limits that might reset in January. Health insurance sucks.

i have an opinion

technokek wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:53 am i have an opinion

you stop that right this fucking instant

I have 2 opinions

technokek wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 7:53 am i have an opinion

wrong

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:31 pm

saprasam wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm i'd be worried too if the headmin team were to comb through an entire discord server's messages just to find dirt, & then when you try to appeal it, the appeal is instantly hidden from the public eye & they say it is all disinformation & lies & don't say anything about why that is
granted it IS a blacklist, but it's just baffling to me the way this is handled

One of the largest recurring issues of this headmin term is that they do not know how to do something without it looking suspicious as fuck, even if it's benign. It would be funny if this didn't happen almost every week.

yeah, i would agree. we put a lot of effort into investigations and such but tend to fail to publicly handle the final steps well. from the tip of the tower the decision is obvious and there wasn't many ways around it, but trying to keep privacy with that while keeping stuff looking alright from the view of the player is difficult, especially when something like how sinful was not correctly banned from the forums caused a rush with his appeal that just lead to a weird looking hidden appeal when it was already seen and saved anyway

Nabski wrote: ↑Mon Dec 04, 2023 5:09 pm

Nabski wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 9:45 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:34 pm

oranges wrote: ↑Fri Dec 01, 2023 8:04 pm holy shit page 5

I am a proud father

I am currently in the hospital and it is questionable between if I am going to be the father of a very premature girl or of nothing.

I am having a time right now. This is not a joke post.

Self Replying is cringe but I figured an update is good.

Things stabilized really well. Like exceeding the doctors expectations well. We had been told that one way or another the baby would be out by Sunday.

We are now being told that aiming for a 28 week delivery is reasonable and later is still better. There is a realistic hope that we can make it to 34 weeks and just have an early deliver rather than a premature deliver, all of with is better than our micro premature delivery which would have had about 30% chance of death and then a 50% chance if they lived to have impairments or not.

Wife's in the hospital until the delivery (which is hopefully two months from now).

► Show Spoiler

I have no idea how insurance and such is going to go but I can't imagine a 2 month hospital bill being cheap. The fact that it goes in different calendar years is either going to be good or bad, idk.

Fuck Sinful, this is why I check this thread. So relieved to hear your family is in calmer waters.

Fikou wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:02 pm

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 11:31 pm

saprasam wrote: ↑Sat Dec 02, 2023 10:56 pm i'd be worried too if the headmin team were to comb through an entire discord server's messages just to find dirt, & then when you try to appeal it, the appeal is instantly hidden from the public eye & they say it is all disinformation & lies & don't say anything about why that is
granted it IS a blacklist, but it's just baffling to me the way this is handled

One of the largest recurring issues of this headmin term is that they do not know how to do something without it looking suspicious as fuck, even if it's benign. It would be funny if this didn't happen almost every week.

yeah, i would agree. we put a lot of effort into investigations and such but tend to fail to publicly handle the final steps well. from the tip of the tower the decision is obvious and there wasn't many ways around it, but trying to keep privacy with that while keeping stuff looking alright from the view of the player is difficult, especially when something like how sinful was not correctly banned from the forums caused a rush with his appeal that just lead to a weird looking hidden appeal when it was already seen and saved anyway

Blacklists ban your forum account, or are supposed to. But we've seen people appeal blacklists before (often unsuccessfully) like Jackriip and others.

So my question is, at best, Jackriip and others had to make new forum accounts to appeal their blacklists. Yet theirs were never hidden. They were either just closed, or allowed to exist in the chance that mayhap MSO will see them.

What's the difference? If Sinful had been properly banned from the forums, and made a new forum account to appeal, would it have remained? If so, why? What would have been the effective difference? And if not, why would his case have been different from the others, as well as why do you keep bringing up that it was supposed to ban his Forum Account too?

Ultimately, y'all are the headmins and as Timber said, our (the players) opinions and perspectives do not matter at all, but this is what has me scratching my head about it so much. These are, ideally, the things that you CAN answer without compromising privacy, which may help with Player Opinion.

there is no big book of official procedure for when someone is blacklisted. being on the blacklist just means that MSO has declared he doesn't want you in the community fullstop. we have to go in and make sure they're banned from everything individually, something which was initially overlooked for the forums.

the forums were in sort of a nebulous position - with arm on vacation there were no other active mods, so it sort of fell to the headmins to keep an eye on it as well. now the new sweepers are in town.

some blacklist appeals were left up because it was that term's decision to leave them up. there would've been nothing wrong with taking them down.

if you look for a conspiracy you will find one. the reality is that it's 3 first term headmins trying their best in a highly visible management position with a lot of oversight and chance for error.

EDIT: also, i feel i need to re-iterate: the thread was not deleted. it was moved to a forum that regular users can't see specifically for MSO to review posts. if he wants to review it, he will. if he doesn't want to, he won't. the blacklist is his and his alone to deal with however he feels like.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:44 pm if you look for a conspiracy you will find one.

i think in reality sinfulblis was silenc 'cos he had screnshots of the discords an the headmins deleted hium

he had evicnd the HEADMINS refs to release

it's all a coverup to let erp bac in the server and stop plrs from rping properl by removing all our fredoms

theyr' coletivl takin over the server you have nothing to do bu watch it's detgh of tg

help

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:37 pm What's the difference? If Sinful had been properly banned from the forums, and made a new forum account to appeal, would it have remained? If so, why?

it wouldn't have been handled either way. theres no way of knowing if anything about it being hidden would be different if he made a different forum account to appeal because thats not the reality we're in.

What would have been the effective difference? And if not, why would his case have been different from the others

it's not different from others in any special way, there have been blacklists that banned people's forum accounts, like MRTY's, who made a different account to appeal it a few years later. there is no specific protocol

why do you keep bringing up that it was supposed to ban his Forum Account too?

? this is the first time i mention it

Fikou wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 3:02 pm yeah, i would agree. we put a lot of effort into investigations and such but tend to fail to publicly handle the final steps well. from the tip of the tower the decision is obvious and there wasn't many ways around it, but trying to keep privacy with that while keeping stuff looking alright from the view of the player is difficult, especially when something like how sinful was not correctly banned from the forums caused a rush with his appeal that just lead to a weird looking hidden appeal when it was already seen and saved anyway

The thing is, you guys managed to do this sort of thing right once before, with the xpokee metagang bans. When people appealed those bans, you posted receipts in the appeals, we in the peanut threads saw those receipts, and it lent a huge amount of credibility to those bans. Xpokee losing their shit in the peanut thread also helped, but still.

Now contrast to this situation. Yes, it's a blacklist appeal, but I don't see why that matters. It's true that nothing says you have to keep the appeal publicly available, but there's also nothing saying it can't be publicly available. There's also nothing saying you can't post evidence in response. In fact, posting the evidence you had would've been perfectly justifiable, given that Sinful claimed to have no idea what messages he was actually banned for.

So you had the perfect chance to actually get some credibility back, but you instead choose to do possibly the most shady-looking things possible. I just don't get it.

not sure if we're remembering the same thread. i recall people fighting to re-contextualize cheating and trying to argue that it should be allowed because they didn't like that someone was banned. this is reductive of course, but we're all being reductive here, so fuck it.

what killed the thread's momentum was lowering the permabans.

the reality of the situation is that sinful went to the top of the mountain and got smited by zeus. whether or not his charred remains are left up on display or interred below the earth is an entirely empty gesture at this point that has no actual effect on the outcome of his appeal whatsoever. the only place it has any effect is on MSO's desk, which is where it is.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:16 pm -snip-

the reality of the situation is that sinful went to the top of the mountain and got smited by zeus. whether or not his charred remains are left up on display or interred below the earth is an entirely empty gesture at this point that has no actual effect on the outcome of his appeal whatsoever. the only place it has any effect is on MSO's desk, which is where it is.

How do you just come up with this stuff? I wish I had the mental capacity to write my thoughts out as eloquently as you are able to.

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 4:09 pm The thing is, you guys managed to do this sort of thing right once before, with the xpokee metagang bans. When people appealed those bans, you posted receipts in the appeals, we in the peanut threads saw those receipts, and it lent a huge amount of credibility to those bans. Xpokee losing their shit in the peanut thread also helped, but still.

Now contrast to this situation. Yes, it's a blacklist appeal, but I don't see why that matters.

Long story short, xpokee's ban was appealable. Sinful's wasn't.

Again for clarity, over the past year a majority of the blacklist appeals have been handled by me, including some when I wasn't a headmin.

Seren Highwater/Slurge - viewtopic.php?p=683915#p683915 - May 2023, instantly denied/closed by Timberpoes with no additional information provided when blacklist had only just been placed.
Likteer - viewtopic.php?p=674147#p674147 - May 2023, not formally blacklisted, appeal handled by banning admin and MSO with invitation to reappeal in a year.
Alexeivichi - viewtopic.php?p=671490#p671490 - May 2023, blacklist appeal allowed to remain open by Timberpoes due to exceptional circumstances, denied due to lack of interest from MSO.
Darkbitt/Aspen - viewtopic.php?p=671452#p671452 - Mar 2023, blacklist appeal allowed to remain open by Timberpoes due to MSO engagement in previous appeal, denied due to lack of interest from MSO.
Jackrip - viewtopic.php?p=664566#p664566 - Feb 2023, blacklist appeal allowed to remain open by Timberpoes (not headmin at the time) due to bridge-mending attempts within the appeal.
Freshiscoolman - viewtopic.php?p=661326#p661326 - Feb 2023, appeal discovered to have been from blacklisted player, allowed to remain open by Timberpoes (not headmin at the time) due to MSO engagement in previous appeal.

So if we add in:
Sinfulbliss - viewtopic.php?p=713973#p713973 - Nov 2023, instantly denied/closed by Timberpoes when blacklist had only just been placed.

So I wouldn't throw shade at the headmin team for the decision to instantly close it. I tend to close newly-blacklisted appeals (of which we only had one other this year) unless there's a realistic possibility of mistake or mistaken identity. The instant close was an individual judgement call from me and I didn't CC in the headmins to make that call.

If it feels off compared to past blacklist appeal handlings it's likely because all those previous blacklist appeals have dense history to them, where as this latest appeal was more like the Seren Highwater/Slurge one; the appeal was too close to the moment of being blacklisted and it's not likely there was any fuckup. No point leaving it open and the decision to close it is trivially reversed by MSO or the headmins if there is a change in stance.

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:01 pm Long story short, xpokee's ban was appealable. Sinful's wasn't.

I addressed that. Nothing says that you have to make blacklist appeals hidden. Nothing says you can't post the relevant evidence in a blacklist appeal for the benefit of MSO and/or the appealer. Leaving Sinful's appeal open, and posting the receipts there, would have helped the admin team to be more credible.

I'm not saying that there was some sort of grand admin conspiracy to ban Sinful. I'm saying that this was handled in a dumb way.

MSO has already seen the evidence because he applied the ban, posting evidence is only for your (random peanut poster) benefit rather than that of MSO or the appealant

GPeckman wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:08 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:01 pm Long story short, xpokee's ban was appealable. Sinful's wasn't.

I addressed that. Nothing says that you have to make blacklist appeals hidden. Nothing says you can't post the relevant evidence in a blacklist appeal for the benefit of MSO and/or the appealer. Leaving Sinful's appeal open, and posting the receipts there, would have helped the admin team to be more credible.

I'm not saying that there was some sort of grand admin conspiracy to ban Sinful. I'm saying that this was handled in a dumb way.

I think it was deleted 'cos it wasn't meant to exist, but I get your point and yeah, there isn't any sort of guidelines on that. But yeah I understand your point of view. The gears of administration are grinding quite slowly recently on this particular subject. I blame it on fatigue (this is the second metacord problem this headministration had to deal with), and university finals/midterms.

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Tue Dec 05, 2023 5:14 pm MSO has already seen the evidence because he applied the ban, posting evidence is only for your (random peanut poster) benefit rather than that of MSO or the appealant

Of course it can be for the benefit of the appealant. To quote Sinful's appeal:

Sinfulbliss wrote: Whatever messages we sent that were apparently over-the-line and qualified as targeted harassment, or a "forum brigade," were never shared with me or Pepper. You showed the entire adminteam privately, so they could "understand our bans," but we ourselves were never given the courtesy.

He claims to not know which messages he was actually banned for. There's little if any reason for him to lie about that, and on the off chance that he did lie about it there's still no harm in taking his claim at face value and actually showing him what messages he was banned for.

there'd be no substantial need for the headmins to offer reasons like that to sinful because they didn't ban him. MSO placed him on the blacklist. the most the headmins can do is speculate why MSO might have made that decision or give reasons why they would've banned him in their stead if he wasn't blacklisted. both of these are completely unproductive uses of time that just perpetuate an argument that neither side has the power to change at all.

the endgame of this situation is whether or not MSO feels like even reading the appeal, let alone changing it. that is the reality sinful and pepper are living in. this was out of the headmin's hands the moment sinful decided to take the elevator right up to the penthouse suite.