/tg/Station 13

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>Doesn't know how heretic works
>Notes Antag for round removing one (1) SSD person
>Player gets mad
>This somehow wasn't solved in ahelp??

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:18 pm Admins have to deal with constant player abuse on a daily basis.

Victim blaming

CPTANT wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:30 pm > In your note you were extremely hostile to what was a fairly mundane opening adminhelp

-> Admin calls player a dick -> Player calls admin Manuelmin -> This is somehow "Extreme Hostility" from the player and a "mundane opening" from the admin.

Not gonna lie, calling that "Extreme hostility" kinda lowers my trust for admins describing the tone of conversations.

clownish as fuck

Can someone explain how mothblocks got a headmin position when they deal with any criticism towards admin staff this poorly?

MSO rigged it by giving the best candidate the host pick and moving him from the voting pool.

Timonk wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 8:34 pm

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:18 pm Admins have to deal with constant player abuse on a daily basis.

Victim blaming

That is simply the objective truth, whether you choose to deny it or not.

Many admins have all the goodwill, energy and drive to do right and be good and be the better people drilled down by players treating them like shit. The admins that persevere through it all and continue to represent the team with tact and maturity are genuine gems, and we try to help these admins rise to positions of mentorship and training in the hopes they pass their good vibes down the chain.

The admin team as a whole deals with various forms of verbal abuse on a nearly daily basis for trying and make SS13 a fun, fair and awesome game for everyone.

That's not excusing admins, because for every asshole player there's an equally jaded and burned out admin that long since become ticket hardened. They've seen it all before, and don't show compassion or empathy to others because adminning is a chore or duty rather than something fun or interesting. Tickets are condensed down to a simple box ticking exercise. They stop genuinely caring and, as a result, stop listening. And all players want from admins is that we will listen to them and consider what they have to say in genuine good faith.

But the honest truth is that at some point inidividuals from both sides are complicit in this loop. Players get caught up dealing with a cranky shitheel admin. And admins like Vekter often get caught in the crossfire because they're active and not afraid of difficult or evcen unpopular decisions in their goal to make our servers a little bit more kickass than they were yesterday. And then they approach one incident from a flawed perpsective and it all starts up again.

It's a cycle, and it's something I try to remind everyone of from time to time. When answering ahelps. When doing appeals. When responding to complaints. You represent the admin team and you tar the whole lot of us with the same brush. If you're a shitheel admin when dealing with a player, you create a player that dislikes admins. The next admin that has to deal with that player have a higher chance of getting lashed out at. We make a wonderful cycle of shittery, players then making jaded admins.

The flip side is a scenario like a few days ago. I stepped to end a ticket between an admin and a player because the admin was being abused by them in a ticket. And it shouldn't have to be that way. The us-vs-them mentality is utterly asinine. And anyone - player or admin - that perpetuates that utterly pointless trope is poisoning the well for the rest of us, who simply don't give a shit and just want to make spacemans the best it can be.

This ticket should have never played out like it did. The note should have never been placed. And we should have never been here to have this discussion. But the reason this all happened is going to be far more complicated than players going "Vekter bad" and admins going "Bobama bad".

It's why I ask people to be a bit more excellent with eachother, on every side of the discussion. Because I think that is the key to avoiding future incidents like this on a community-level.

However, there are still things admins can be mindful of because ultimately when talking to players we hold the power dynamic. And even if we don't make things better, I at least ask us all to try avoid making things worse.

Calling someone a manuelmin? Extremely hostile
Calling someone a dick? Just business

Man, way to be over dramatic.

If we just cut to the chase, at the end of the day, that is still a heinous ticket that raises some big questionmarks. I get it Timber, sometimes you get caught in a ticket with no right answers, and you'll be in the heat, it happens.

This ticket however, just has me seriously questioning their judgement and thought process, because this isn't a complicated ticket, that is about as straight forward as it gets, there is no case here. So really, what is the neurological pathway that an admin takes to not only threaten a player to stop their perfectly legal and acceptable behavior, but then also punish them after they have been actually coerced into agreeing to their demands??

The only sensible reason for this, as I'm completely speculating here, is that the player called him a "manuelmin" and that's what made him see red and then come up with this incredibly weak reason just to ban / note him, so he can have his revenge. At the very least, if I was headmin and seeing this appeal, I'd be taking this guy out to the side and have a little discussion with them, just asking them "what the fuck is going on?" and so forth.

Listen, it doesn't have to be a cesspit where we just claw at eachother's throats over every single issue. Due dilligence goes a long way to save everyone's nerves, and maybe you forgot, so I will tell you, players generally don't want hungry banbots breathing down their necks, so if you just take a hot minute to check wheter there is even a case here or not, you'll at least avoid having stupid incidents like these.


OK?


With querying regards
-BONERMASTER

I'm not saying all admemes bad, or even vekter bad - we all make mistakes and that's okay! You're fine vekter. Just please try to do a bit better, and try to start your ticket on a more neutral tone next time.

Man I'm not gonna get involved in drama but if an admin is so controversial that like every other thread in this subforum is about them, maybe it'd be best if they step down for atleast a little while

All I can really do is say that I'll be more careful in the future and investigate better before talking to someone. I'll say that it'd be nice to be able to make mistakes without getting dragged over the coals every time. All that does is make me not want to do the job anymore.

EDIT: Also, I didn't ask Mothblocks to lock this. I very much disagree with them having done this.

This is just a sad affair of events. Shame some admins defended this and makes the team look shitty as a result.

Okay, I feel bad now Vekter, it's all good, nothing personal

SSD killing has always been a no no in lrp you dinks. I thought there was a clause in rule 4 about this?

Vekter wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:44 am All I can really do is say that I'll be more careful in the future and investigate better before talking to someone. I'll say that it'd be nice to be able to make mistakes without getting dragged over the coals every time. All that does is make me not want to do the job anymore.

I would like players and admins a like to adopt this view but your mistake its like "bruh did you even read the rules?" Rule 4 tells you what antags can be punished for. It doesn't help when admins defend and close the thread which doesn't help put out the fire at all and just creates a greater divide between players and admin. All be it the last part isn't you fault this just should had never happened in the first place and you/team should had just admitted mistakes were made or should had just left the thread open even to let it be lost to time.

when does hunterxhunter get good?

i'm at like episode 20

pretty embarrassing that the supposedly "extremely hostile" behavior was him just calling vekter a manuelmin like once

Capsandi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 12:55 am SSD killing has always been a no no in lrp you dinks. I thought there was a clause in rule 4 about this?

Not on TG, don't know where you heard this.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:51 pm 1- it seems to be Vekter a lot

Vekter is one of our most active supportmins and most active admins. It stands to reason that admins that are more active are going to get appeals and make mistakes sheerly through volume of activity.

It was a fuck up but if it was acknowledged to be a fuck up and corrected so I'm not sure what the problem is? Maybe vekter can take a break for a week or two if they're feeling heated about it. Also not really sure why everyone is basically repeating what other people have already said.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:48 am Also not really sure why everyone is basically repeating what other people have already said.

Peanut threads are a place for everyone to post their opinion. You don't really need to read any post in a peanut thread, you just need to have read the appeal and have an opinion. That's it. You don't have to read the opinion of other people, you don't have to respond to a post.

We should promote vekter to headmin and let him have a reign of terror to get it all out of his systen

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 4:26 am We should promote vekter to headmin and let him have a reign of terror to get it all out of his systen

If we ban everyone, then no one can break any rules

i blame heretic for not allowing me to one shot the guy before he goes ssd

if it was ling/tator/any antag other then one without any tools it'd be possible!!!

also all our ingame gps's except for the nuke disk pinpointer kind of suck

BONERMASTER wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 11:30 pm Long post

I wouldn't call it a heinous ticket. That's hyperbole from the other direction and I think we have all had enough of that.

It is a dumb ticket with an equally pointless resolution.

I don't know why all the stars and planets became aligned to create the perfect storm in a teacup where an LRP antag got noted for killing an objective target, the note had such incredibly poor wording, the ticket had limited investigation, you get the idea.

But I think it's something we can all learn from, at least before the next admin creates the next drama storm.

Ultimately the note was appealed and revoked without any argument. That should absolutely be commended and the process was made as painless as possible by Vekter.

As a headmin I care more about admins identifying and rectifying mistakes than the utterly inevitable fact that mistakes will at some point be made.

Most of the drama from stems from the actions of the headmin team in how this appeal was followed up, including a post berating the appealer and locking this thread criticising it all.

Neither decision particularly benefitted Vekter in retrospect, and only played into us-vs-them mentality as it becomes a public image matter. And I am sure the headmin team has taken MSO's input on board as our term reaches its conclusion.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:16 am when does hunterxhunter get good?

i'm at like episode 20

the arc that starts on episode 27 is pretty good but episode 76 has the best arc

Shadowflame909 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 8:11 am

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 1:16 am when does hunterxhunter get good?

i'm at like episode 20

the arc that starts on episode 27 is pretty good but episode 76 has the best arc

Hunter Exam arc/Heavens Arena arc - ok, a bit generic shounen

Yorknew City arc - Great

Greed Island arc - bad and completely pointless

Chimera Ant arc - Really good but a bit long a times. It has some seriously epic moments though.

Timberpoes wrote: ↑Sun Jul 17, 2022 7:18 pm For the sake of full transparency, I am going to post the ticket log that led to this appeal. Players can draw their own conclusions from it based on what Mothblocks said.

Spoiler:

From Ticket #2 during round 186586 on Sybil
Ticket opened at 2022-07-13 21:14:50 by vekter
Log:
21:14:50: Ticket Opened by-vekter: Hey, try not to sack people who are SSD, please. Kind of dickish.
21:15:48: Reply from-bobama: when my targets go ssd am i supposed to just stop playing manuelmin??
21:16:58: Reply from-vekter: No, but if you see someone who's SSD, it might be better to wait a second and see if they come back. That guy said he was reconnecting and you sacked him while he was dropped. Which isn't really something you have control over, but it's still dickish to just toss someone if they're SSD.
21:17:23: Reply from-vekter: Remember, your goal is to make the round interesting for people, not necessarily to win at all costs.
21:19:36: Reply from-vekter: Do you understand what I'm asking of you? Also I didn't put you there, I have no idea how you got there.
21:20:40: Reply from-bobama: yeah I'll try not to round remove ssd people
21:21:35: Vekter/(Pleiades IX) has created a note for BOBAMA<br />Asked not to round remove SSD people if he can help it.
21:21:39: Resolved by Vekter
---- No futher messages ----
This ticket was generated by Statbus v.0.14.0

If you disagree with any assertions about their rudeness or hostility, consider that players only have to deal with admins intermittently. Admins have to deal with constant player abuse on a daily basis. Nobody, player nor admin, honestly knows what kind of day the other person has had and being shitty to eachother for no reason doesn't benefit anyone. The best course of action is for everyone to be excellent to each other, because at the end of each screen is another real life person.

Wow, from the way this ticket was described I assumed it was the far more common Ticket Opened:"Sorry to bother you but please don't decapitate the clown for fun as captain"-> Reply:"fuck you asshole i do what i want" ticket type. Surprised to find out its something so petty.

RaveRadbury wrote: ↑Mon Jul 18, 2022 2:47 am

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Jul 15, 2022 8:51 pm 1- it seems to be Vekter a lot

Vekter is one of our most active supportmins and most active admins. It stands to reason that admins that are more active are going to get appeals and make mistakes sheerly through volume of activity.

thats a fair point

yeah the exam arc was a lot of fun

Things like this absolutely abolish any player-admin trust that's been built up and bring it all down to step one; in all honesty, it's just sad. The note itself is incredibly questionable; whatever these things happen, it by itself wouldn't be such a big issue it would get laughed at, removed then people would move on. But then you've got mothblocks claiming that the ticket was "extremely hostile" which is just a lie. Any trust that could've been retained by leaving it has now been fucking shattered and smashed because if they're lying about shit like this what else are they lying about?

It's why I ask people to be a bit more excellent with eachother, on every side of the discussion. Because I think that is the key to avoiding future incidents like this on a community-level

Saying this after the prior headmin's comment on the 'hostility' of the ticket (which from an outside perspective comes off as a joke after seeing the contents) is a fucking huge LOL. Incidents like this turn into shitfests because of the lack of trust. People don't trust admins to make good calls, and it's only getting worse.