/tg/Station 13

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Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

conrad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:48 pm This is the shitty outside forum, which is niche and small. You underestimate how much information can be gathered by digging around someone's digg posts if they're active enough.

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:We do not consider this a dox due to the nature of the account being shared, being that it was publically accessible and used in r/ss13. However, sharing it and saying "I guess I'll have to dox X to prove it to you" definetly violates Rule 7.

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:27 pm Whether this is all real or fake:

The self-pitying text wall in 'your side of the story' does absolutely nothing to remedy or mitigate where things are at, its just going to serve as a trap that'll 'tug at your heart strings' and make them look like a victim of the system for having addictive tendencies.

They'd be better off putting that much effort into the 'why to unban them' and 'references of good conduct' sections.

Dude needs to get a grip and act appropriately. If they are attempting to show that they are mending bridges, they need to layout exactly what they have done to do so in the SS13 community if he honestly wants this to even be considered.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:14 pm Even if he completely changed as a person and can see why what he did was wrong, nobody is entitled to forgiveness (within reason) and nobody is entitled to play on the /tg/ chunk of space station 13, especially after doing what he did.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm Blacklists are permanent by nature,

► Show Spoiler

Tearling wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 am

conrad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:48 pm This is the shitty outside forum, which is niche and small. You underestimate how much information can be gathered by digging around someone's digg posts if they're active enough.

The headmins already said that it wasn't doxing. I quoteth:

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:We do not consider this a dox due to the nature of the account being shared, being that it was publically accessible and used in r/ss13. However, sharing it and saying "I guess I'll have to dox X to prove it to you" definetly violates Rule 7.

Given that the definition of dox says it's not a dox, and the headmins have subjectively determined it was not a dox, I believe it's safe to say that he was not doxing them. That being said, what he did do was still clearly against the rules, and clearly meant to harass, not to just joke around.

-

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:27 pm Whether this is all real or fake:

The self-pitying text wall in 'your side of the story' does absolutely nothing to remedy or mitigate where things are at, its just going to serve as a trap that'll 'tug at your heart strings' and make them look like a victim of the system for having addictive tendencies.

They'd be better off putting that much effort into the 'why to unban them' and 'references of good conduct' sections.

Dude needs to get a grip and act appropriately. If they are attempting to show that they are mending bridges, they need to layout exactly what they have done to do so in the SS13 community if he honestly wants this to even be considered.

I would argue that had they gone down this route it would come off as pulling rank. "Hey guys, I'm an admin, I've dealt with shitters too, come on" kind of argument. Even if they wouldn't intend for it to come off like that, that's how it would. There's also less of a chance of it even being considered, as it took Timberpoes believing it to be genuine to be allowed. If Timberpoes decided he didn't seem apologetic enough, and just didn't respond, who would have been the one to step forth and put their reputation on the line to give him a second chance?

Especially because half the arguments in this peanut thread for why he should stay blacklisted still apply to the arguments you suggest he should make. Just take LolSwat's argument here for example:

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:14 pm Even if he completely changed as a person and can see why what he did was wrong, nobody is entitled to forgiveness (within reason) and nobody is entitled to play on the /tg/ chunk of space station 13, especially after doing what he did.

-

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm Blacklists are permanent by nature,

Are they? I agree they probably should be, but... haven't they been appealed in the past? Heck, "temporary blacklisting" is mentioned by MSO in his decision on doxing, though it's unrelated to the actual topic, and more related to the circumstances in that specific case.

MSO Blacklists Doxing post:

► Show Spoiler

All of this being said while I believe in second chances, and I believe his appeal is genuine, I'm not sure if I can agree that he should be unblacklisted. If someone told me that they would make it their mission to ruin my reputation in the ss13 community and then post something private from our DMs or something (Which something unrelated and similar has happened to me here actually) I wouldn't want to see them come back to the community, no matter how genuine they seem. I don't know, maybe the victim's thoughts should be taken into account in this case?

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 11:46 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

Agreed. I am disappointed that a game master, not even a forum admin, is able to see his appeal and make it public. Blacklists are supposed to represent people stuck inside a ban blackhole. They shouldn't be allowed to participate in the community ever again.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:27 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

It's not forgiving someone after doxxing someone, it's forgiving someone after threatening to doxx someone. One has consequences, the other doesn't.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:27 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

It's not forgiving someone after doxxing someone, it's forgiving someone after threatening to doxx someone. One has consequences, the other doesn't.

Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:43 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

Waiting with bated breath for someone to now say it was your fault.

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:56 pm I don’t even think he’s privately or publicly apologized to vekter for being a fucking moron.

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:03 pm Doesn’t even address vekter by name, so I don’t really care, sorry.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:19 pm

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:03 pm Doesn’t even address vekter by name, so I don’t really care, sorry.

In this specific instance, I don't think he needs to.
Shouting down the halls, "HEY, BY THE WAY, IF YOU SEARCH <DOXXED PERSON'S USERNAME> ON digg, THEY USE THE SAME ACCOUNT" gets close to the initial 'doxxing', which isn't very helpful if you're trying to get unbanned.
We all know who he targeted. If you don't, you can probably go to the peanut thread to find out. That doesn't mean he has to do it again to get a proper apology across.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:43 am

Tearling wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 am

conrad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:48 pm This is the shitty outside forum, which is niche and small. You underestimate how much information can be gathered by digging around someone's digg posts if they're active enough.

The headmins already said that it wasn't doxing. I quoteth:

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:We do not consider this a dox due to the nature of the account being shared, being that it was publically accessible and used in r/ss13. However, sharing it and saying "I guess I'll have to dox X to prove it to you" definetly violates Rule 7.

Given that the definition of dox says it's not a dox, and the headmins have subjectively determined it was not a dox, I believe it's safe to say that he was not doxing them. That being said, what he did do was still clearly against the rules, and clearly meant to harass, not to just joke around.

-

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:27 pm Whether this is all real or fake:

The self-pitying text wall in 'your side of the story' does absolutely nothing to remedy or mitigate where things are at, its just going to serve as a trap that'll 'tug at your heart strings' and make them look like a victim of the system for having addictive tendencies.

They'd be better off putting that much effort into the 'why to unban them' and 'references of good conduct' sections.

Dude needs to get a grip and act appropriately. If they are attempting to show that they are mending bridges, they need to layout exactly what they have done to do so in the SS13 community if he honestly wants this to even be considered.

I would argue that had they gone down this route it would come off as pulling rank. "Hey guys, I'm an admin, I've dealt with shitters too, come on" kind of argument. Even if they wouldn't intend for it to come off like that, that's how it would. There's also less of a chance of it even being considered, as it took Timberpoes believing it to be genuine to be allowed. If Timberpoes decided he didn't seem apologetic enough, and just didn't respond, who would have been the one to step forth and put their reputation on the line to give him a second chance?

Especially because half the arguments in this peanut thread for why he should stay blacklisted still apply to the arguments you suggest he should make. Just take LolSwat's argument here for example:

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:14 pm Even if he completely changed as a person and can see why what he did was wrong, nobody is entitled to forgiveness (within reason) and nobody is entitled to play on the /tg/ chunk of space station 13, especially after doing what he did.

-

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm Blacklists are permanent by nature,

Are they? I agree they probably should be, but... haven't they been appealed in the past? Heck, "temporary blacklisting" is mentioned by MSO in his decision on doxing, though it's unrelated to the actual topic, and more related to the circumstances in that specific case.

MSO Blacklists Doxing post:

► Show Spoiler

All of this being said while I believe in second chances, and I believe his appeal is genuine, I'm not sure if I can agree that he should be unblacklisted. If someone told me that they would make it their mission to ruin my reputation in the ss13 community and then post something private from our DMs or something (Which something unrelated and similar has happened to me here actually) I wouldn't want to see them come back to the community, no matter how genuine they seem. I don't know, maybe the victim's thoughts should be taken into account in this case?

lol i just realized goof being blacklisted explained his stint as host of hippiestation

it was exactly as much of a disaster as any of you would expect

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:28 pm Yeah good point, fair enough. The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way. If jackrip apologized in his earlier ban appeals instead of basically memeing by getting an AI to write one of them, or apologized privately (though to be fair this may have happened and we wouldn’t know) I would probably feel differently

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:51 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 8:27 am

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized. On the other, I really don't think setting the precedent that you can come back after doxxing someone is a good idea. Blacklists are permanent by nature, you aren't meant to be allowed back at all. You've done something so heinous or been such a blight on the community that we officially don't want you back. The only reason his actions didn't cause more damage is that I'm relatively careful about what I post online.

It's not forgiving someone after doxxing someone, it's forgiving someone after threatening to doxx someone. One has consequences, the other doesn't.

Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

He shared a profile owned by you, where you, of your own free will, published personal information. Unless I misunderstood something about the situation, you doxxed yourself.
If someone were to link someone else's YouTube channel, where the channel owner freely posts SS13 videos as well as personal information, would he have doxxed said person?

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:51 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:43 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

Waiting with bated breath for someone to now say it was your fault.

If you know the truth, why do you wait for someone else to say it instead of saying it yourself?

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:40 pm

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:28 pm Yeah good point, fair enough. The whole thing just rubs me the wrong way. If jackrip apologized in his earlier ban appeals instead of basically memeing by getting an AI to write one of them, or apologized privately (though to be fair this may have happened and we wouldn’t know) I would probably feel differently

I absolutely agree that memeing the previous appeal is not a good look.
According to Vekter, he hasn't reached out privately to try and apologize. While that isn't in itself evidence, it's something.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm On one hand, I'd be willing to forgive him if he apologized.

Emphasis mine.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:32 pm

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:43 am

Tearling wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 12:25 am

conrad wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 1:48 pm This is the shitty outside forum, which is niche and small. You underestimate how much information can be gathered by digging around someone's digg posts if they're active enough.

The headmins already said that it wasn't doxing. I quoteth:

Coconutwarrior97 wrote:We do not consider this a dox due to the nature of the account being shared, being that it was publically accessible and used in r/ss13. However, sharing it and saying "I guess I'll have to dox X to prove it to you" definetly violates Rule 7.

Given that the definition of dox says it's not a dox, and the headmins have subjectively determined it was not a dox, I believe it's safe to say that he was not doxing them. That being said, what he did do was still clearly against the rules, and clearly meant to harass, not to just joke around.

-

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 4:27 pm Whether this is all real or fake:

The self-pitying text wall in 'your side of the story' does absolutely nothing to remedy or mitigate where things are at, its just going to serve as a trap that'll 'tug at your heart strings' and make them look like a victim of the system for having addictive tendencies.

They'd be better off putting that much effort into the 'why to unban them' and 'references of good conduct' sections.

Dude needs to get a grip and act appropriately. If they are attempting to show that they are mending bridges, they need to layout exactly what they have done to do so in the SS13 community if he honestly wants this to even be considered.

I would argue that had they gone down this route it would come off as pulling rank. "Hey guys, I'm an admin, I've dealt with shitters too, come on" kind of argument. Even if they wouldn't intend for it to come off like that, that's how it would. There's also less of a chance of it even being considered, as it took Timberpoes believing it to be genuine to be allowed. If Timberpoes decided he didn't seem apologetic enough, and just didn't respond, who would have been the one to step forth and put their reputation on the line to give him a second chance?

Especially because half the arguments in this peanut thread for why he should stay blacklisted still apply to the arguments you suggest he should make. Just take LolSwat's argument here for example:

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 2:14 pm Even if he completely changed as a person and can see why what he did was wrong, nobody is entitled to forgiveness (within reason) and nobody is entitled to play on the /tg/ chunk of space station 13, especially after doing what he did.

-

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 10:36 pm Blacklists are permanent by nature,

Are they? I agree they probably should be, but... haven't they been appealed in the past? Heck, "temporary blacklisting" is mentioned by MSO in his decision on doxing, though it's unrelated to the actual topic, and more related to the circumstances in that specific case.

MSO Blacklists Doxing post:

► Show Spoiler

All of this being said while I believe in second chances, and I believe his appeal is genuine, I'm not sure if I can agree that he should be unblacklisted. If someone told me that they would make it their mission to ruin my reputation in the ss13 community and then post something private from our DMs or something (Which something unrelated and similar has happened to me here actually) I wouldn't want to see them come back to the community, no matter how genuine they seem. I don't know, maybe the victim's thoughts should be taken into account in this case?

lol i just realized goof being blacklisted explained his stint as host of hippiestation

it was exactly as much of a disaster as any of you would expect

a server that was already a forest fire and goofball was pouring gasoline everywhere.

CPTANT wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 7:15 pm Wait, Goof was a host of Hippie? hahahahahaha, why did I never know this.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 6:32 pm a server that was already a forest fire and goofball was pouring gasoline everywhere.

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:56 pm I think weather or not jackrip did actually dox according to the definition (publishing private PII about someone) is immaterial when jackrip clearly THOUGHT he was or was baiting/trolling/whatever enough to be indistinguishable from actual malicious intent which is basically the same thing in my eyes.

We all play a 15 year old shitty game about clowns in space, I have zero sympathy for losers who try and bring peoples personal lives or think they’re bringing in peoples personal lives because they’re so assmad and buttblasted they lost an internet argument. I’m generally a believer in second chances but I find it really hard to have any empathy for jackrip, especially considering I don’t even think he’s privately or publicly apologized to vekter for being a fucking moron.

everyone else wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:44 pm everything before

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:44 pm i still remember when that fucking idiot gave me a day ban because as an AI i failed to stop a fucking mob of players from murdering someone

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:33 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:51 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:43 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 2:34 pm Considering that there was personally identifying information on my profile (that I've since deleted), he did actually doxx me.

Waiting with bated breath for someone to now say it was your fault.

If you know the truth, why do you wait for someone else to say it instead of saying it yourself?

Local user doesn't understand sarcasm.

Vekter wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 9:33 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Thu Feb 02, 2023 5:51 pm He shared a profile owned by you, where you, of your own free will, published personal information. Unless I misunderstood something about the situation, you doxxed yourself.
If someone were to link someone else's YouTube channel, where the channel owner freely posts SS13 videos as well as personal information, would he have doxxed said person?

Yes. It's actively using or sharing the information that's doxxing, not just finding it.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:06 pm By that definition, just saying someone's Discord handle on BYOND, and vice-versa, is doxxing. You're reducing the term to mean things so petty and insignificant that it destroys the credibility of actual mentions of doxxing.

toemas wrote: ↑Wed Feb 01, 2023 3:34 am Please stop fucking overusing words until they are nearly meaningless you are destroying the english language i am going to weep

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:34 am (Words)

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Feb 03, 2023 2:30 pm (Words)
(no shit he wrote words, what else would he have written, sounds?)

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:43 pm The good ending, though he should've never been able to create the thread in the first place.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:45 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 7:43 pm The good ending, though he should've never been able to create the thread in the first place.

why so full of spite and spice and everything nice

Bawhoppennn wrote: ↑Tue Feb 07, 2023 11:48 pm Do you think Jackrip is gonna:
1. Evade
2. Quit playing
or
3. Wait another year, get a good-boy voucher from another server, right a very apologetic essay to MSO and everyone involved, and appeal for sympathy, hoping that time heals all wounds

I suspect 1 but 2 may also be in the cards