/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Sun Mar 05, 2023 9:56 pm**

Bottom post of the previous page:

So what would you all like to see in the event of a Progression style rework of the changeling?

Personally, I am a huge fan of the prototype series, so I would love to see more of absorbing certain people or objects to unlock certain abilities, such as absorbing a monkey to gain shapechange.

I also happen to be a huge fan of the relatively new game the eternal cylinder (You should all play it right now <3). In the game, your main player, character gains powers based on physical foods they eat. Maybe we could add some emergent gameplay with the chef and add new changeling powers? Under this point, I would not want to lock any of the existing powers under this sub system because that’s just blatantly Unfun.

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:29 pm**

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:43 pm If you wanted to go really crazy, we could look into making traitor progression shared among all traitors.

"Syndicate Influence" over the station increasing over time from all the agent's actions. Kinda cool! A global way to make sure SOMEONE is antagonizing a little while the rest cook

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:39 pm**

Please just go with the timelock.

It solves all the problems that led to the creation of progtot in the simplest way.

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:15 pm**

Armhulen wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 5:29 pm
Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:43 pm If you wanted to go really crazy, we could look into making traitor progression shared among all traitors.
"Syndicate Influence" over the station increasing over time from all the agent's actions. Kinda cool! A global way to make sure SOMEONE is antagonizing a little while the rest cook

holy mother of god STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP STOP

YOU WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO GAMEIFY HOW MUCH ANTAGONISTS ARE ANTAGONIZING

THIS IS A SANDBOX ROLEPLAY GAME IN ITS PUREST FORM AND THE FETISHIZATION OF TRYING TO CODIFY IT INTO SIMPLE NUMBERS FOR GAME DESIGN IS KILLING IT FROM THE INSIDE

im sorry for yelling but this whole shtick has been an endless source of frustration for me. i was very supportive of prog tots when it was first conceived but when i actually got my boots on the ground to see the idea come to fruition i realized how absolutely distant and shortsighted it was. we don't need to make players have a reason to do things as antagonist. we should be encouraging players to make their own reasons.

it delves into the issues of intrinsic and extrinsic motivations. people tend to just be more engaged when they have intrinsic motivations instead of doing something because they want Rewards (extrinsic). green text was a perfect balance in my eyes of extrinsic and intrinsic. it gives some very very low bar goals for traitors to seek out. but the more enlightened folks realize that "green text is meme text"- and that's exactly what it was. at the end of the day doing your green text never actually gave any concrete goals, they were merely suggestions. some of the objectives were even free and incentivized doing whatever you wanted, like die a glorious death

if we want to get the best mileage out of our antags we should just have a way to gain new suggestions for your goals. but it's easy to make things worse as we saw with prog tots. personally i think it's just better to leave it how it was before prog tots while adding a timelock feature for some of our most problematic items. we should encourage admins to also clamp down on loser traitors who go around silently murderboning every round with no real gimmick

is game maker's toolkit considered lame yet? this video explains this whole intrinsic vs extrinsic motivation thing best.

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:37 pm It is not true that every item is time locked.
The chameleon projector is not time locked. The stealth implant is also not time locked.

Generally speaking the only things which are time locked are weapons or items which cause very widespread effects.
There is absolutely a need to audit the rep requirements on items and there’s some bizarre ones in there (nonslip galoshes??) but the ones you have mentioned already have no time lock.

my mistake but i remember distinctly looking at my uplink and being unable to purchase like 80% of its items. and then like 10 minutes latter still only being like 30% of which i could purchase. i was being dramatic to get my point across as i couldn't remember what i could and could not buy

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:20 pm**

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:15 pm my mistake but i remember distinctly looking at my uplink and being unable to purchase like 80% of its items. and then like 10 minutes latter still only being like 30% of which i could purchase. i was being dramatic to get my point across as i couldn't remember what i could and could not buy

Perhaps it felt that way but I really do need to assure you that the majority of items do not have a time lock on them at all.

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:00 pm**

Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:20 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:15 pm my mistake but i remember distinctly looking at my uplink and being unable to purchase like 80% of its items. and then like 10 minutes latter still only being like 30% of which i could purchase. i was being dramatic to get my point across as i couldn't remember what i could and could not buy
Perhaps it felt that way but I really do need to assure you that the majority of items do not have a time lock on them at all.

*Ahem*

Here's a list of every single item that is locked behind progression.

► Show Spoiler

Here is a list of every non-progression item.

► Show Spoiler

78 items locked behind reputation
53 items that are not locked behind reputation

by pure numbers, a majority of items are locked behind progression

now you may argue that some of the items locked behind progression are little fish like the 6 different modsuit modules. in which i agree. i tried to get the data for how many times each uplink item was bought and i would pull put together how many reputation items were bought compared to non-reputation items. but i'll get to that at a later date, maybe. from purely anecdotal evidence, i think 80% of all items bought are progression-locked if i had to ballpark it.

i agree that most items that shouldn't be time-locked but i must drag you for gaslighting me

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:36 pm**

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:33 am the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots

this is why i just sit in the arrivals shuttle until the 40 minute mark, then bring my bomb onto the escape shuttle instead

(coders ignore this)

Posted: **Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:44 pm**

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:36 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:33 am the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots
this is why i just sit in the arrivals shuttle until the 40 minute mark, then bring my bomb onto the escape shuttle instead

(coders ignore this)

I have no idea why you would actively sabotage yourself like that. You could you know, actually play the game in that time. Maybe even do a little traitoring that doesn't involve that bomb?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:06 am**

Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.

Dynamic and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Dynamic and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Dynamic and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.

Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.
Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race. Progression traitor and its consequences have been a disaster for the spessman race.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:09 am**

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:44 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:36 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:33 am the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots
this is why i just sit in the arrivals shuttle until the 40 minute mark, then bring my bomb onto the escape shuttle instead

(coders ignore this)
I have no idea why you would actively sabotage yourself like that. You could you know, actually play the game in that time. Maybe even do a little traitoring that doesn't involve that bomb?

I mean, if john explosion's only goal is "I want to blow up [Location]", doing "Bug high security location" x 10 is just giving him a bunch of extra chances to get caught and instantly deleted by the crew if you think about it.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:17 am**

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:00 pm
Jacquerel wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:20 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 6:15 pm my mistake but i remember distinctly looking at my uplink and being unable to purchase like 80% of its items. and then like 10 minutes latter still only being like 30% of which i could purchase. i was being dramatic to get my point across as i couldn't remember what i could and could not buy
Perhaps it felt that way but I really do need to assure you that the majority of items do not have a time lock on them at all.
*Ahem*

Here's a list of every single item that is locked behind progression.

► Show Spoiler
job related
Ultra Hilarious Firing Pin - 5 minutes
Super Ultra Hilarious Firing Pin - 5 minutes
Syndicate Brand MMI - 10 minutes
Exploding Hot Potato - 10 minutes
Combat Bakery Kit - 20 minutes
EZ Clean Grenade Bundle - 10 minutes
Reverse Bear Trap - 10 minutes
Modified Syringe Gun - 15 minutes
Butcher's Meat Hook - 15 minutes
Disposable Sentry Gun - 15 minutes
Magillitis Serum Autoinjector - 20 minutes
Box of Gorilla Cubes - 20 minutes
Brainwashing Surgery Program - 25 minutes
Reverse Revolver - 30 minutes
Kinetic Accelerator Pressure Mod - 30 minutes
Guide to Advanced Mimery Series - 30 minutes
Laser Arm Implant - 30 minutes
Reagent Dartgun - 30 minutes
Banana Cream Pie Cannon - 30 minutes
Clown Bomb - 30 minutes
Clown Car - 30 minutes
Concealed Weapon Bay - 30 minutes
His Grace - 30 minutes
Australicus Slime Mutator - 40 minutes
Blast Cannon - 45 minutes

suits
Syndicate MODsuit - 20 minutes
MODsuit Thermal Visor Module - 20 minutes
MODsuit Night Visor Module - 20 minutes
MODsuit Chameleon Module - 20 minutes
MODsuit Plate Compression Module - 20 minutes
MODsuit Anti-Slip Module - 90 minutes
Elite Syndicate MODsuit - 90 minutes

badass
Syndicate Briefcase Full of Cash - 5 minutes
Clown Costume - 70 minutes
Sleepy Time Pajama Bundle - 90 minutes
Broken Chameleon Kit - 90 minutes
CentCom Official Costume - 110 minutes

bundles
Syndi-kit Tactical - 30 minutes
Syndi-kit Special - 30 minutes
United Surplus Crate - 30 minutes
United Surplus Crate Key - 30 minutes

stealthy
Boxed Origami Kit - 10 minutes
Martial Arts Scroll - 30 minutes
Miniature Energy Crossbow - 30 minutes

dangerous
Makarov Pistol - 10 minutes
Box of Throwing Weapons - 10 minutes
Energy Sword - 20 minutes
Power Fist - 20 minutes
Gloves of the North Star - 20 minutes
Double-Bladed Energy Sword - 30 minutes
Holoparasites - 30 minutes
Syndicate Revolver - 30 minutes

explosive
Slipocalypse Clusterbang - 10 minutes (lol)
Composition C-4 - 10 minutes
Bag of C-4 explosives - 20 minutes
Bag of X-4 explosives - 30 minutes
Detomatix disk - 30 minutes (lol)
EMP Grenades and Implanter Kit - 30 minutes
Pizza Bomb - 30 minutes (lol???????)
Syndicate Minibomb - 30 minutes
Syndicate EMP Bomb - 30 minutes
Syndicate Bomb - 40 minutes

ammo
9mm Handgun Magazine - 10 minutes
9mm Armour Piercing Magazine - 30 minutes
9mm Hollow Point Magazine - 30 minutes
9mm Incendiary Magazine - 30 minutes
.357 Speed Loader - 30 minutes

device tools
Cryptographic Sequencer - 20 minutes
Stimpack - 20 minutes
Super Pointy Tape - 10 minutes
Hacked AI Law Upload Module - 30 minutes
Hypnotic Flash - 30 minutes
Hypnotic Grenade - 30 minutes
Power Beacon - 30 minutes
Power Sink - 30 minutes

stealthy tools
No-Slip Chameleon Shoes - 20 minutes
Disable Telecomms - 30 minutes
Trigger Stationwide Blackout - 40 minutes

Here is a list of every non-progression item.

► Show Spoiler
(job related)
Haunted Magic Eightball
Organic Resources Disturbance Inducer
Clumsiness Injector
Ancient Jumpsuit
Ancient Toolbox

(suits)
Infiltrator MODsuit
Syndicate Space Suit

(badassery)
Syndicate Balloon
Syndicate Playing Cards
Syndicate Smokes

(bundles)
none unless you count telecrystals and Random Item

(implants)
Freedom Implant
Internal Syndicate Radio Implant
Stealth Implant
Storage Implant
Uplink Implant

(special)
Syndicate Autosurgeon

(species)
Extra-Bright Lantern

(stealthy)
Dart Pistol
Dehydrated Space Carp
Energy Dagger
Poison Kit
Suppressor
Syndicate Holster
Sleepy Pen

(dangerous)
Toy Pistol with Riot Darts (lol)

(explosives)
none

(ammunition)
Box of Riot Darts

(device tools)
Syndicate Soap
Syndicate Surgery Duffel Bag
Syndicate Encryption Key
Syndicate Tome
Thermal Imaging Glasses
Adaptive Cardboard Cutouts
Briefcase Launchpad
Experimental Syndicate Teleporter
Camera Bug
Chest Rig
Airlock Authentication Override Card
Decoy Nuclear Authentication Disk
F.R.A.M.E. disk
Failsafe Uplink Code
Full Syndicate Toolbox
Radioactive Microlaser
Protocol CRAB-17 Phone
Binary Translator Key

(stealthy tools)
Agent Identification Card
Artificial Intelligence Detector
Chameleon Kit
Chameleon Projector
Codespeak Manual
EMP Flashlight
Mulligan
Radio Jammer
Smuggler's Satchel
78 items locked behind reputation
53 items that are not locked behind reputation

by pure numbers, a majority of items are locked behind progression

now you may argue that some of the items locked behind progression are little fish like the 6 different modsuit modules. in which i agree. i tried to get the data for how many times each uplink item was bought and i would pull put together how many reputation items were bought compared to non-reputation items. but i'll get to that at a later date, maybe. from purely anecdotal evidence, i think 80% of all items bought are progression-locked if i had to ballpark it.

i agree that most items that shouldn't be time-locked but i must drag you for gaslighting me

I assure you that you can get these items before those timers if you do secondary objectives

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:54 pm**

Timonk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:17 am
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:00 pm Words
I assure you that you can get these items before those timers if you do secondary objectives

you’re very much late to the party, sir

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:56 pm**

RedBaronFlyer wrote: ↑Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:33 am If you really wanted to gimp wizards, you could have a magicka pool (like Morrowind) that doesn't regen, and each spell takes away from that pool. At a certain point, the wizard becomes a fancily dressed person with a stick. Adjust the magicka pool based on the player pop. (or take the dynamic approach where you pinky swear that it is totally designed around lowpop as well but give the wizard way more magicka in proportion to the crew on low pop to encourage even more of why playing lowpop dynamic sucks) It would then become a game to see if the wizard murder the station/force a shuttle call before they run out of magicka. It would also help kill any inefficient wizard combat gimmicks since traitor also got most of its ability to do gimmicks before 30 minutes into a round got killed via progtot.

Bookmarking this post so in 2025 when this exact thing gets merged I can find this again and blame you for it.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 6:43 pm**

CPTANT wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 10:44 pm
Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 9:36 pm
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 4:33 am the very easy solution is to just timelock shit and remove everything else about progtots
this is why i just sit in the arrivals shuttle until the 40 minute mark, then bring my bomb onto the escape shuttle instead

(coders ignore this)
I have no idea why you would actively sabotage yourself like that. You could you know, actually play the game in that time. Maybe even do a little traitoring that doesn't involve that bomb?

I don't do that ALL the time

sometimes I just walk around with a welding fuel tank screaming I AM NOT A TRAITOR, and then use said explosion to prove that I MIGHT in fact, be a traitor.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 11:53 am**

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:54 pm
Timonk wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 9:17 am
iwishforducks wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 8:00 pm Words
I assure you that you can get these items before those timers if you do secondary objectives
you’re very much late to the party, sir

/tg/Station 13

Progression Changeling Brainstorming thread

Progression Changeling Brainstorming thread

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Re: Progression Changeling Brainstorming thread

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