/tg/Station 13

Posted: **Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:52 am**

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=33546

if you bring TTVs onto the shuttle without properly securing them and they go off it's your fault

it's like bringing a plasma canister onto the shuttle and saying "it was for eorg!!" when some ban evader opens it

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:20 am**

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:56 pm Timber showed up, pulled up logs. Dude went "Thanks for logs. Headmin pls. Unga bunga."

If he gets unbanned or the note gets removed I'm gonna pee each of your pants.

Can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it speak.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:47 am**

i could care less about people who bring grief items onto the shuttle so they can detonate them the microsecond the round ends for some funny EORG. if you want to bring maxcaps onto the shuttle so you can blow it up after the round ends and giggle at it thats fine but you need to be willing to accept the consequences if you somehow lose control of them and they get detonated early, if you dont want to accept these potential consequences then leave your grief gear on the station before you board the shuttle, it's that easy

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:58 am**

Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:47 am i could care less about people who bring grief items onto the shuttle so they can detonate them the microsecond the round ends for some funny EORG. if you want to bring maxcaps onto the shuttle so you can blow it up after the round ends and giggle at it thats fine but you need to be willing to accept the consequences if you somehow lose control of them and they get detonated early, if you dont want to accept these potential consequences then leave your grief gear on the station before you board the shuttle, it's that easy

If I hold a maxcap TTV in my bag of holding and another player pulls out a esword kills me, pulls out the bomb and detonates it killing everybody else on the shuttle are you honestly saying that I could be held responsible?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:08 am**

ban seems lazy if the admin just looked at who created the bomb and slapped a ban on them, which is what it looks like. Not right or wrong or anything because the admin was perfectly in the right to apply the ban they did, just lazy

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 12:07 pm**

If I go to the shuttle with a cat, a bomb, and a signaler attached to a Geiger counter that can detect a single atom decaying in a bag of holding, is it grief when some tider kills me, steals the bomb, and puts the shuttle into a quantum superposition of both being griefed and not-griefed?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 2:17 pm**

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:56 pm Timber showed up, pulled up logs. Dude went "Thanks for logs. Headmin pls. Unga bunga."

If he gets unbanned or the note gets removed I'm gonna pee each of your pants.

What else would he do with such a patently unfair ban?

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:37 pm**

Boot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:58 am
Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:47 am i could care less about people who bring grief items onto the shuttle so they can detonate them the microsecond the round ends for some funny EORG. if you want to bring maxcaps onto the shuttle so you can blow it up after the round ends and giggle at it thats fine but you need to be willing to accept the consequences if you somehow lose control of them and they get detonated early, if you dont want to accept these potential consequences then leave your grief gear on the station before you board the shuttle, it's that easy
If I hold a maxcap TTV in my bag of holding and another player pulls out a esword kills me, pulls out the bomb and detonates it killing everybody else on the shuttle are you honestly saying that I could be held responsible?

Yes. Because you brought it. You set up the situation so you hold responsibility. If you can't handle the risk of it then don't do it. Simple as.

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:36 pm**

The scientist did nothing wrong, and it’s two minutes before the shift restarts regardless. I’m half tempted to make the evac shuttle a PVP enabled zone so we can finally dumpster this stupid argument over EROG

Posted: **Sat Mar 11, 2023 11:46 pm**

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 10:36 pm The scientist did nothing wrong, and it’s two minutes before the shift restarts regardless. I’m half tempted to make the evac shuttle a PVP enabled zone so we can finally dumpster this stupid argument over EROG

EORG starts when the round ends. Anyome failing to understand this is retarded.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 3:15 am**

Ziiro wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:37 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:58 am
Qbmax32 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 3:47 am i could care less about people who bring grief items onto the shuttle so they can detonate them the microsecond the round ends for some funny EORG. if you want to bring maxcaps onto the shuttle so you can blow it up after the round ends and giggle at it thats fine but you need to be willing to accept the consequences if you somehow lose control of them and they get detonated early, if you dont want to accept these potential consequences then leave your grief gear on the station before you board the shuttle, it's that easy
If I hold a maxcap TTV in my bag of holding and another player pulls out a esword kills me, pulls out the bomb and detonates it killing everybody else on the shuttle are you honestly saying that I could be held responsible?
Yes. Because you brought it. You set up the situation so you hold responsibility. If you can't handle the risk of it then don't do it. Simple as.

It really is such a double edged sword.

On the one hand, the dude at least put in some effort to contain it (though a fantastic point was raised about "would you really trust a scientist with a welded locker?")

But like. Morally, I think he's a fucking lame-o who deserves it because people who go "unga unga unga, I'm gonna kill everyone the nanosecond the shuttle lands!" are boring and should probably be slapped with Rule 1 because you're being a bit of a dick by denying anyone else the chance to do a little EORG by just detonating everything in the first two seconds. (you don't even get to do anything either! you push a single signaller and EORG is over and everyone just sits there until the round resets!)

Honestly, I care more when this happens to me than I do when it happens to me while the shuttle's in transit, because as other people say, round's gonna restart in 2 minutes anyway, who cares. Not like 'be alive when you arrive at CentCom really matters', but EORG Prep is just Boring and NRP (imo)

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 5:32 pm**

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Sat Mar 11, 2023 4:08 am ban seems lazy if the admin just looked at who created the bomb and slapped a ban on them, which is what it looks like. Not right or wrong or anything because the admin was perfectly in the right to apply the ban they did, just lazy

It's only about being right or wrong to ban tho. Someone could meticulously piece every part of the puzzle together and if they make the wrong call it's still a bad ban

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:11 pm**

kieth4 wrote: I've got a simple and quick view. The bombs were secured, it's not his fault. An unrelated shitter broke the locker took apart the bomb and then blew it up. What was he meant to do? Kill the gygax?

What was he meant to do? Oh I dunno, maybe "don't bring maxcaps onto the shuttle"

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:20 pm**

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:11 pm
kieth4 wrote: I've got a simple and quick view. The bombs were secured, it's not his fault. An unrelated shitter broke the locker took apart the bomb and then blew it up. What was he meant to do? Kill the gygax?
What was he meant to do? Oh I dunno, maybe "don't bring maxcaps onto the shuttle"

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:32 pm**

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:11 pm
kieth4 wrote: I've got a simple and quick view. The bombs were secured, it's not his fault. An unrelated shitter broke the locker took apart the bomb and then blew it up. What was he meant to do? Kill the gygax?
What was he meant to do? Oh I dunno, maybe "don't bring maxcaps onto the shuttle"

Idk man, people bringing bombs to the shuttle is done all the time. It's not his fault some shitter blew them up.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 6:43 pm**

i mean, he is responsible for the bombs he made going off tho. if you bring bombs on the shuttle and gave it to someone else and they set it off, there's a question on whether they're an antag or not but you definitely fucked up regardless

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:10 pm**

This idea that just because you brought it onto the shuttle you are fucked no matter how it goes off is just crazy. It makes people more paranoid that they'll get bwoinked instead of at each other.

If the events happened 3 tiles outside in evac and suddenly it's not the scientists fault at all then that's retarded. Everyone knows what a scientists welded locker means.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:37 pm**

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:10 pm This idea that just because you brought it onto the shuttle you are fucked no matter how it goes off is just crazy. It makes people more paranoid that they'll get bwoinked instead of at each other.

If the events happened 3 tiles outside in evac and suddenly it's not the scientists fault at all then that's retarded. Everyone knows what a scientists welded locker means.

Then don't prepare for EORG before the round actually ends, and consider RPing instead. It's not that hard, lol. Admins will probably blow Centcom up anyways. It is not anyone's right to competitively be the person to end everyone else's EORG before everyone else can.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:51 pm**

If I was EORG prepping my maxcaps I'd remove one of the two tanks and keep it in my backpack, then just slap them together at 0:03. Like it's not that hard

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:38 pm**

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:37 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:10 pm This idea that just because you brought it onto the shuttle you are fucked no matter how it goes off is just crazy. It makes people more paranoid that they'll get bwoinked instead of at each other.

If the events happened 3 tiles outside in evac and suddenly it's not the scientists fault at all then that's retarded. Everyone knows what a scientists welded locker means.
Then don't prepare for EORG before the round actually ends, and consider RPing instead. It's not that hard, lol. Admins will probably blow Centcom up anyways. It is not anyone's right to competitively be the person to end everyone else's EORG before everyone else can.

Hey Terryfriend I'm not saying that they have a "right" to do so, anyone can bully someone obviously preparing EORG. Infact I do it all the time. My issue here is that when someone goes out of their way to trigger that EORG early I don't really think that the guy who prepared it in the first place ought to be held as the one responsible.

Posted: **Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:17 pm**

Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:38 pm
Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:37 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:10 pm This idea that just because you brought it onto the shuttle you are fucked no matter how it goes off is just crazy. It makes people more paranoid that they'll get bwoinked instead of at each other.

If the events happened 3 tiles outside in evac and suddenly it's not the scientists fault at all then that's retarded. Everyone knows what a scientists welded locker means.
Then don't prepare for EORG before the round actually ends, and consider RPing instead. It's not that hard, lol. Admins will probably blow Centcom up anyways. It is not anyone's right to competitively be the person to end everyone else's EORG before everyone else can.
Hey Terryfriend I'm not saying that they have a "right" to do so, anyone can bully someone obviously preparing EORG. Infact I do it all the time. My issue here is that when someone goes out of their way to trigger that EORG early I don't really think that the guy who prepared it in the first place ought to be held as the one responsible.

The person that sets up the EORG is part of the reason why this happens, and that's why they're responsible. Premature EORG is a very common occurrence, so it makes sense for admins to curb it. Shuttles aren't that different from planes, and no one is going to let you deliver a bomb to a plane.

It doesn't make sense to bring bombs to the emergency escape shuttle, especially while the alert level is blue, so it does not grant the coolness factor to invoke rule 0. It was completely preventable grief.

Having the possibility to get banned is a good motivation to at least make sure your shit is secure. Perhaps a hastily welded locker isn't the most secure thing.

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2023 6:46 am**

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 9:17 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 8:38 pm
Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:37 pm
Boot wrote: ↑Sun Mar 12, 2023 7:10 pm This idea that just because you brought it onto the shuttle you are fucked no matter how it goes off is just crazy. It makes people more paranoid that they'll get bwoinked instead of at each other.

If the events happened 3 tiles outside in evac and suddenly it's not the scientists fault at all then that's retarded. Everyone knows what a scientists welded locker means.
Then don't prepare for EORG before the round actually ends, and consider RPing instead. It's not that hard, lol. Admins will probably blow Centcom up anyways. It is not anyone's right to competitively be the person to end everyone else's EORG before everyone else can.
Hey Terryfriend I'm not saying that they have a "right" to do so, anyone can bully someone obviously preparing EORG. Infact I do it all the time. My issue here is that when someone goes out of their way to trigger that EORG early I don't really think that the guy who prepared it in the first place ought to be held as the one responsible.
The person that sets up the EORG is part of the reason why this happens, and that's why they're responsible. Premature EORG is a very common occurrence, so it makes sense for admins to curb it. Shuttles aren't that different from planes, and no one is going to let you deliver a bomb to a plane.

It doesn't make sense to bring bombs to the emergency escape shuttle, especially while the alert level is blue, so it does not grant the coolness factor to invoke rule 0. It was completely preventable grief.

Having the possibility to get banned is a good motivation to at least make sure your shit is secure. Perhaps a hastily welded locker isn't the most secure thing.

Understandable, EORG preparation means cutting out a corner tile on the outside of the shuttle and wrenching your shenanigans down.

Posted: **Tue Mar 14, 2023 7:00 am**

Wonder what the effect on the game would be if you made unreasonable eorg prep a punishable offense for a few months

Bringing a toolbox to hit people with? Sure whatever

Bringing the entire armory/maxcap with you? Bwoink

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:09 am**

With a pretty interesting (albeit delayed) headmin response on this, I'm tentatively re-opening this so people can have a bit of a chat about the final outcome and the classic 3-way headmin split.

Note that I tl;dr the more complete reasonings for both Misdoubtful and Kieth, so if I picked the wrong stuff to communicate that's totes my bad. In that case, do shoot the messenger (me).

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:13 am**

the wild thing is i agree with all 3 headmin decisions

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:07 am**

Yeah, any of those decisions would've been valid ingame admin rulings to make. Amending the note makes the most sense as a middle ground. It's a little late to overturn the ban so misdoubtful got his way on that one anyway. Also nice to see some internal debate amongst the headmins. I always find it interesting to see their individual opinions instead of it just being a monolithic 'uphold'.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:19 am**

The best thing to come from this thread is this quote to collect for my signature

Scriptis wrote: ↑Thu Mar 09, 2023 7:07 am upon closer inspection i can safely confirm that bawhoppennn is right

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 10:02 am**

I don't agree with Kieth4 ("Oh wow Ricky really?" No seriously hear me out). It generates a precedent that people should not worry about their EORG stuff being stolen/used prematurely since it'll "totally not be their fault since people bring it onto the shuttle all the time, man".

I don't like this "who cares" attitude. Some people do care. It alienates and fails to cater to people who want to see the round end screen without being turned into chunky salsa, which has rules and precedents protecting that want.

It's important to not take the game so seriously. It's also important to keep a certain minimum standard to just how serious is enough.

I'm glad there's a least a note, in the end. Please don't make this headmin term the "it's ok to be a shitter" term.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:09 pm**

simple policy change would be to look at the person who actually kaboomed the bombs to ban and then giving the scientist a note that explained the situation just in case a pattern starts to emerge

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:32 pm**

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:09 pm simple policy change would be to look at the person who actually kaboomed the bombs to ban and then giving the scientist a note that explained the situation just in case a pattern starts to emerge

LolSwat is correct again.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 5:08 pm**

I stand by my stance that both parties should probably be punished in equal measure. If you want to spend the time and energy to do le epic eorg grief XD then you're betting big on pulling it off, and you need to take your lumps if you fuck up. If you don't want that risk? Don't do this shit, then.

Part of this is because of the inevitable level of failure on only ruling one side:
"The player that activates the bombs is at fault and the creator is faultless" -> lmao everyone bring bombs and OOPS I DROPPED MY SIGNALLER!! SO CLUMSY OF ME!!
vs
"The player that creates the bombs is at fault and the person who triggered them is faultless" -> Guy brought bombs, must be valid, kill him. If he isn't valid and we do it, there's no consequences for us.

This ruling keeps us in a grey area that it has to be evaluated on a situation by situation basis, which is tiring for admins and players.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 6:35 pm**

Applying a bit of general transparency; the bomber had a generally clean history since 2021 with nothing similar to this, so they ended up only getting a note.

Mazur averages multiple notes per month and has collected over 40 combined bans and notes for rule breaking behaviour since January 2021 from over 20 different admins. It's a miracle they're not perma'd already, as they show precisely 0 signs of improvement over the past 2 years.

That aside, it still didn't feel right to hold Mazur responsible for the bombing itself. I personally draw the line at holding Player A responsible for the independent actions of Player B breaking the rules, which is a large part of why I felt the ban portion should be overturned. I totally felt it was fine holding him accountable for setting up the scenario where it could happen for such a low-effort reason.

These rulings will always be a grey area. Admins are trained to evaluate incidents on a situation-by-situation basis.

Posted: **Thu Mar 23, 2023 8:25 pm**

A bomb on the shuttle is intrinsically the spirit of the game. But we as a society need to at least pretend it isn't.

/tg/Station 13

i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut

Re: i want a headmin review because the explosion wasn't my fault nut