/tg/Station 13

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So...that happened.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:03 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:59 am What’s my… “Proposed remedy” to an offhand unrealized threat to breach conduct? Uhhh. Maybe like a temporary mute or ban from Discord? Definitely not DEADMINNED + SERVER BANNED + SCRUBBED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH + L + RATIO.

^has no idea what goes on in adminbus
"Broo just temp mute for an imminent possible adminbus leak bro"
glad 2 have u back sinful

probably a debate about the N word or something

doesn’t really matter… i’m sure it’s just both sides got heated and overreacted and now here we are

you should record an apology on cancer killing /tg/

Don't think Vekter should be permanently punished for such a thing. He's a good admin even if I disagree with him on some stuff. He made a comment he shouldn't have from being upset and the extent MSO went to to punish him was out of pocket unless theres something here I'm not seeing. Really went into "making an example out of him" territory when it hopefully could've been solved with a productive conversation.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:12 am

Capsandi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 4:03 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:59 am What’s my… “Proposed remedy” to an offhand unrealized threat to breach conduct? Uhhh. Maybe like a temporary mute or ban from Discord? Definitely not DEADMINNED + SERVER BANNED + SCRUBBED FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH + L + RATIO.

^has no idea what goes on in adminbus
"Broo just temp mute for an imminent possible adminbus leak bro"
glad 2 have u back sinful

probably a debate about the N word or something

doesn’t really matter… i’m sure it’s just both sides got heated and overreacted and now here we are

MSO showed up at the big balls competition and then noticed his opponent was Vekter

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:43 am …and just like that, 50% of all future urgent ahelps have been sent into the abyss.

I try to grab them if I am on but urgent ahelps tend to be the most unenjoyable part of being an admin. Most urgent ahelps aren't the type of thing to solve real quickly and move on, so it can easily devolve into having to sit there for extended periods of time. And there's the tendency for more tickets to pop up that you then need to deal with alone, or even deal with ones that have just been sitting there. If you are adminning a server when a ticket pops up you can't really dodge it, but if you see an urgent ahelp you can just not show up to deal with it entirely devoid of guilt. And with how awful some urgent tickets can be, it's really fucking tempting.

Ok cmon share your game theories, what juicy drama is going on here

I can't divulge direct details without actually leaking adminbus logs, but MSO muted another admin over something I felt was unacceptable

This all happened suspeciously after this admin mute, so my game theory is:

- Jackraxxus gets muted for spamming in the admin shitposts channel
- said spam messages were made as responses to the admin that banned Jackraxxus
Which CAN be seen as unacceptable, guy posted shitposts in the shitpost channel answering an admin, then that admin bans them. Weird!! (potato did justify themselves im sure its nothing serious)
So Vekter maybe got pissed at seeing that, got a bit too feisty, got muted by mso, and when unmuted in a fit of rage threatened to leak the adminbus, which promptly got him kicked the fuck out.

Counterpoints:
1. MSO didnt mute Jackraxxus
2. The time between Jackraxxus's appeal and Vekter getting kicked out is 10 whole hours which seems absurd

MSO the only issue I got is with the server ban, Vekter taking a break to play the game instead of just sniping fools from the INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower can only be good for him.

None tell small about the audit log

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:49 am None tell small about the audit log

The What

TheSmallBlue wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 6:09 am

TheFinalPotato wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:49 am None tell small about the audit log

The What

im sorry, but you know too much

what the FUCK

bros this is all a bad dream, i'll wake up tomorrow and dad'll come back from the milk store with his cigarettes

apology for poor english
when were you when vekter dies
i was sat at home when discord dm ring
'vekter is die'
'no'
and you????????????

Vekter may be overly concerned and strict about a number of things, but they've been part of the community for quite a long time and I would hate to see them be forced out as an admin in such a screwy situation as this is

in a more serious light:
i dislike some of vekter's decisions but i feel like this is a massive overreaction.

It has been 0 days since last drama.

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 7:05 am in a more serious light:
i dislike some of vekter's decisions but i feel like this is a massive overreaction.

it'll all blow over tomorrow

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 5:48 am MSO the only issue I got is with the server ban, Vekter taking a break to play the game instead of just sniping fools from the INTERNAL DISCUSSIONS tower can only be good for him.

Yeah, about that playing the game part...

For what it's worth: immediate removal from all channels and suspension of services was our standard reaction back when I was the head of a MEGA-ALLIANCE in notoriously bad game EVE Online (it being so standard we had a lockdown checklist for it) so like, I get it.

That said, we generally didn't advertise whenever it happened, and would attempt to mend fences in private. It very rarely stood for more than a few days.

Yeah he is permabanned :/

Nice, now I can finally play the game again.


With FUN regards
-BONERMASTER

I can't imagine this not being revoked at some point, once everyone's had a calm discussion about events and cooled down a little

Vekters done more for removing shitters from our servers than anyone

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:42 am I'm not discussing it until we've had time to talk.

Y'all know where to find me if you need me otherwise.

So true, see you in the Krusty Krab son

o7

Everything, everywhere, all at once about all of what led to this just pisses me off.

This usually results in a bad day to be a headmin, and a lot of lost hours worrying about things I shouldn't really need to dedicate the headspace to.

Its definitely frustrating when we get a scorched earth as a first reaction then are stuck with the consequences for 8 or so hours.

Holy crap, imagine removing one of the most active admins over a shitpost.
His "threat" was about as real as my threat to turn the escape shuttle around and send everyone back to the station for misbehaving in the shuttle bridge.

Let vekter play so he can know what it is like to face the oppressed us players face every day.

We have 3 key general admin channels.

#admin-auditorium - public, only admins can talk, has some shit posts.

#admin-chatter - private, chatter and chitchat, ideally low on shitposts but mostly low on moderation for free discussion. new admins can not view history for a few weeks.

#adminbus - strictly ontopic discussion about admining, the game, or other related on-topic-to-administration topics.

This happened in #adminbus, about #adminbus.

They weren't shitposting, they got angry, and crossed a very bright line by threatening to cross an even brighter line.

When sawage got angry and crossed a bright line involving meteors and catgirls, they got a 2 day admin ban.

If i wasn't so angry in the moment, thats likely what would have happened here in the first place, but i don't regret going the extra mile and removing all of the privileges of somebody who was so angry they would do that.

The implication was that i was to either calm down, or, they would leak adminbus, which is, like, the worse way to try and get somebody to calm down.

I'm disappointed but not for the reasons people would think. Partly just want to shrug at this at the moment.

Cooler heads will prevail when the people involved are ready to convene. No amount of finger wagging at them is going to give anyone any sudden epiphanies here.

MrStonedOne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 10:45 am The implication was that i was to either calm down, or, they would leak adminbus, which is, like, the worse way to try and get somebody to calm down.

TBF mso, I'm pretty sure the implication, or a message he didnt have time to post, was "Stop abusing privileges of host for reasons that really didn't warrant that", and not "Calm down or Ill leak bus". At least thats the way I read it, and looking that way, its sorta logical in a twisted way. As a host there is no higher person to call on, except the people who donate.

so wait are we forking or what? ive already got my pitchfork and torch ready

The real frustration here is that I can't say what I actually want to say about the matter because I still don't know to what extent I'm being punished, since MSO has responded to this thread and not the appeal, nor my DMs in Discord.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:32 pm The real frustration here is that I can't say what I actually want to say about the matter because I still don't know to what extent I'm being punished, since MSO has responded to this thread and not the appeal, nor my DMs in Discord.

Sorry Vekter but MSO has sent out a PM to everyone declaring your depersoning. You don't exist, and never have. All evidence of your presence will be edited or removed using advanced machine learning programs, and you will never again be talked with or about by anyone in or outside of teegee station and its affiliated platforms. Just by making this post i am nearly guaranteed a blacklist by our dread Stoner overlord (may His supreme fury cleanse this world of all that opposes His vision). I am sorry...

Based on how this situation plays out, I'd advice remaining admins consider this situation carefully and whether your efforts are valued in this community when Vekter, who has one of the highest coverages of anyone, is excommunicated on a single emotional flare up. Not so much that a punishment was placed, but to the level it was placed.

Can there be disagreements even in a professional sense if MSO will just shove you out on a whim? What about what happened to Fikou, how did that come about?

Even if this is resolved peacefully, you shouldn't sit comfortable as you are. You're a lot of very talented and dedicated people. Remember that you're all valuable to the continued and smooth operation of this game we enjoy together, and the structures that exist is from the combined history and experiences of the team before, and passing on of procedure and knowledge to the next generation of administrators. That's why the team is one of the most effective in the SS13 as a whole. Your absence will be felt.

I'm gonna say the L word
L
E
A

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 12:56 pm Based on how this situation plays out, I'd advice remaining admins consider this situation carefully and whether your efforts are valued in this community when Vekter, who has one of the highest coverages of anyone, is excommunicated on a single emotional flare up. Not so much that a punishment was placed, but to the level it was placed.

Can there be disagreements even in a professional sense if MSO will just shove you out on a whim? What about what happened to Fikou, how did that come about?

Even if this is resolved peacefully, you shouldn't sit comfortable as you are. You're a lot of very talented and dedicated people. Remember that you're all valuable to the continued and smooth operation of this game we enjoy together, and the structures that exist is from the combined history and experiences of the team before, and passing on of procedure and knowledge to the next generation of administrators. That's why the team is one of the most effective in the SS13 as a whole. Your absence will be felt.

mso already intimated he plans reduce it to a temp ban

ain’t that big a deal. would be cool for it to be declassified though for transparency reasons (viz: continued peanuting)

What does the "(ADMIN)" mean in the public bans page?

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:28 pm What does the "(ADMIN)" mean in the public bans page?

It means it applied to admins. Normally bans don't apply to admins, you have to press a special button to make it stick

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:05 pm mso already intimated he plans reduce it to a temp ban

ain’t that big a deal. would be cool for it to be declassified though for transparency reasons (viz: continued peanuting)

I think the issue is less how it is going to be resolved, but how this came to be in the first place. Any pretty severe incident like this should be a learning opportunity and a chance for maybe changing things to make sure that the process is impartial and fair. It's how you foster a healthy community of trust.

I would want and hope that the system from top to bottom is one where everyone is on the same page, and there are equal expectations of professional conduct and limitations. It's a volunteer role. Nothing is binding anyone to this, but everyone wants to see it succeed, right? I don't think it is a radical statement to say 'let's be fair and professional about how we handle disagreements'.

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:30 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:28 pm What does the "(ADMIN)" mean in the public bans page?

It means it applied to admins. Normally bans don't apply to admins, you have to press a special button to make it stick

So if an admin were to get banned (say 1 day for an invalid kill) they can just play anyways? Or would an admin ban be applied in that situation? If its a regular ban is it applied with an expectation of good faith that the admin wouldn't play and would only join to handle ahelps/observe?
Not really important, I'm just curious

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:41 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:30 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:28 pm What does the "(ADMIN)" mean in the public bans page?

It means it applied to admins. Normally bans don't apply to admins, you have to press a special button to make it stick

So if an admin were to get banned (say 1 day for an invalid kill) they can just play anyways? Or would an admin ban be applied in that situation? If its a regular ban is it applied with an expectation of good faith that the admin wouldn't play and would only join to handle ahelps/observe?
Not really important, I'm just curious

Honestly I don't really know why it exists, if an admin is being banned we'd press the admin ban button.

wtf

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:54 pm

SkeletalElite wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:41 pm

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:30 pm

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:28 pm What does the "(ADMIN)" mean in the public bans page?

It means it applied to admins. Normally bans don't apply to admins, you have to press a special button to make it stick

So if an admin were to get banned (say 1 day for an invalid kill) they can just play anyways? Or would an admin ban be applied in that situation? If its a regular ban is it applied with an expectation of good faith that the admin wouldn't play and would only join to handle ahelps/observe?
Not really important, I'm just curious

Honestly I don't really know why it exists, if an admin is being banned we'd press the admin ban button.

Pretty sure it exists as one of precautions to the entire "one person gets their account hijacked every admin gets instantly banned" problem

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:38 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:05 pm mso already intimated he plans reduce it to a temp ban

ain’t that big a deal. would be cool for it to be declassified though for transparency reasons (viz: continued peanuting)

I think the issue is less how it is going to be resolved, but how this came to be in the first place. Any pretty severe incident like this should be a learning opportunity and a chance for maybe changing things to make sure that the process is impartial and fair. It's how you foster a healthy community of trust.

I would want and hope that the system from top to bottom is one where everyone is on the same page, and there are equal expectations of professional conduct and limitations. It's a volunteer role. Nothing is binding anyone to this, but everyone wants to see it succeed, right? I don't think it is a radical statement to say 'let's be fair and professional about how we handle disagreements'.

So the rules don't apply if you play long enough?

i accidentally posted in the appeal thinking i was here

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:23 pm

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:38 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:05 pm mso already intimated he plans reduce it to a temp ban

ain’t that big a deal. would be cool for it to be declassified though for transparency reasons (viz: continued peanuting)

I think the issue is less how it is going to be resolved, but how this came to be in the first place. Any pretty severe incident like this should be a learning opportunity and a chance for maybe changing things to make sure that the process is impartial and fair. It's how you foster a healthy community of trust.

I would want and hope that the system from top to bottom is one where everyone is on the same page, and there are equal expectations of professional conduct and limitations. It's a volunteer role. Nothing is binding anyone to this, but everyone wants to see it succeed, right? I don't think it is a radical statement to say 'let's be fair and professional about how we handle disagreements'.

So the rules don't apply if you play long enough?

Yes

Super Aggro Crag wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:35 pm

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:23 pm

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:38 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 1:05 pm mso already intimated he plans reduce it to a temp ban

ain’t that big a deal. would be cool for it to be declassified though for transparency reasons (viz: continued peanuting)

I think the issue is less how it is going to be resolved, but how this came to be in the first place. Any pretty severe incident like this should be a learning opportunity and a chance for maybe changing things to make sure that the process is impartial and fair. It's how you foster a healthy community of trust.

I would want and hope that the system from top to bottom is one where everyone is on the same page, and there are equal expectations of professional conduct and limitations. It's a volunteer role. Nothing is binding anyone to this, but everyone wants to see it succeed, right? I don't think it is a radical statement to say 'let's be fair and professional about how we handle disagreements'.

So the rules don't apply if you play long enough?

Yes

Lvl 99 boss

for the amount of free labor they are willingly doing its worth keeping them

Every time I send an urgent Ahelp, vec is there. Thanks man, you have been really helpful.

Kubisopplay wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 2:33 pm
Pretty sure it exists as one of precautions to the entire "one person gets their account hijacked every admin gets instantly banned" problem

Hey dude in sent you a really funny youtube video in discord DMs. You should click the link and watch it ASAP. Trust me it's really good. Click the link

maskenary wrote: ↑Fri Apr 07, 2023 3:52 pm for the amount of free labor they are willingly doing its worth keeping them

I'm absolutely fucking floored that you'd say this given how many times I've answered urgent adminhelps brought up against you.

Also we're sorting this out, results soon.

All is right as rain with time.