/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

I was talking with Kendrickorium about it because I thought I had a funny idea. But now we're both conflicted. Help us decide.
For context.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:19 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

Tell that to me when I latejoin as a sec officer and all the lockers are emptied because the fuckin captain detective and HoP all want their secHUDs

can't you just print a sechud and combine it with your sunglasses nowadays?

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:19 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

Its a comparison. The same justification for taking sec huds can be used for null rods, I am sure there are better items to compare if this one flew by.

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:21 pm

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:19 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

Tell that to me when I latejoin as a sec officer and all the lockers are emptied because the fuckin captain detective and HoP all want their secHUDs

Been there. Take their regular sunglasses, order the AI to research sec huds (if they haven't yet been researched), print a standalone sec hud and craft sec hud sunglasses.

kawoppi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:26 pm can't you just print a sechud and combine it with your sunglasses nowadays?

Yes.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:36 pm Its a comparison. The same justification for taking sec huds can be used for null rods, I am sure there are better items to compare if this one flew by.

It didn't "fly by", it was refuted by me.

kawoppi wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:26 pm can't you just print a sechud and combine it with your sunglasses nowadays?

fr? didnt know that. thats p cool

Refuted? How? Your point is they are different because sec huds are easier to create, my point is that the justification for taking a sec hud and null rod are the same, its just that one of them is a whole lot more important

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:19 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

No, it’s not.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 10:35 am imagine if you didnt fucking care, and gave people whatever access they wanted, thus enabling CRAZY WACKY SITUATIONS?????? SCENARIOS???? ANTAGS DOING THINGS??? ASSISTANTS DOING GIMMICKS???????????

IMAGINE?????

*bwoink*
"I noticed you gave atmos access to the assistant who used it to build single tanks despite him being wanted, heads are held to a Higher Standard Of Play"

Besides, giving out dangerous access to random people roundstart in ways that fuck over the rest of the station is the captain's job.

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

PWRGMING is when you start rounding up assistants roundstart and mindshielding them before there's a single "Viva!" over the radio.

The possibility of having revs being one of three separate possible non-seccie reasons for sechuds to be useful to a hop is not powergaming. Any more than picking up a station-bounced radio early on before there's a comms outage is "powergaming" because you're expecting comms to get bombed or shut down by antags before it has. Is a head taking a pinpointer roundstart powergaming because they're useless except when it's ops or MALF?

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:03 pm How about not trying to optimize your gameplay in a way that eliminates all fun and risk in exchange for your own personal enjoyment

The problem with forming your perspective of the server based exclusively on bored tider mains who spend their rounds breaking shit while waiting for an antag roll is that anything that doesn't enable their sort of "gameplay", like changing access and replacing id cards as HoP, doesn't matter.

And tiders usually don't use the HoP because when they want access to an area they just break in, or steal someone else's id.

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 1:09 am

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 10:35 am imagine if you didnt fucking care, and gave people whatever access they wanted, thus enabling CRAZY WACKY SITUATIONS?????? SCENARIOS???? ANTAGS DOING THINGS??? ASSISTANTS DOING GIMMICKS???????????

IMAGINE?????

*bwoink*
"I noticed you gave atmos access to the assistant who used it to build single tanks despite him being wanted, heads are held to a Higher Standard Of Play"

Besides, giving out dangerous access to random people roundstart in ways that fuck over the rest of the station is the captain's job.

And tiders usually don't use the HoP because when they want access to an area they just break in, or steal someone else's id.

stop playing on manuel

wait, whats that scrubby? he plays on sybil? you mean he's just making shit up about being boinked for giving access? interesting

Manuel would also dunk whatever admin who did that ruling.

zyb, why the fuck are you even still playing a social game when you just aren't a social person? do you have even a single lasting relationship you've built within this community? who the hell is left here that will support you?

why the fuck are you even still here?

go play tf2 or something

you've got a fucking toxic codependency on this server and it's not good for anybody

you need to find a community that isn't sick of your shit man. this ain't it. this ain't progress

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 1:32 am damn

damn looks like it's roast night at the inventory am i right guys

i know it's harsh but that's the point. we've been here before already and literally nothing has changed. why are you so hell-bent on playing on a server whose community you refuse to interact with in the first place? like, you understand what being in a community entails, right? that you meet people and socialize? that you give a shit about other people? that when you've been here for more than two years it's a really fucking bad sign that nobody knows anything about you, and when they do it's only because of shit like this? this isn't cs:go matchmaking. this isn't some halo 3 lobby. these are the same people hanging out in a place they like every day and you're supposed to talk to them and hang out

do you just not feel comfortable with all the shit we give you at this point? surely at this point it's time to throw in the towel and find a community you're actually compatible with?

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:06 am that when you've been here for more than two years it's a really fucking bad sign that nobody knows anything about you, and when they do it's only because of shit like this? this isn't cs:go matchmaking. this isn't some halo 3 lobby. these are the same people hanging out in a place they like every day and you're supposed to talk to them and hang out

Completely disagree with this outlook. While ss13 is a more social focused video game, it's still just a video game. You don't need to be a social person to roleplay. You don't need to interact with the ss13 community to enjoy the game. You don't need to make friends or hang out with people. It's a video game. People will take what they want from it and you can't fault them for that.

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:46 am Completely disagree with this outlook. While ss13 is a more social focused video game, it's still just a video game. You don't need to be a social person to roleplay. You don't need to interact with the ss13 community to enjoy the game. You don't need to make friends or hang out with people. It's a video game. People will take what they want from it and you can't fault them for that.

while tg is on ss13, tg is not ss13. tg is a community. it's a bunch of people who like the same thing getting together to have fun. you don't get to "just play the game." when you turn up on the servers here you are opting in to interact with our community. that's how it works. that's how it's always worked for any small game community, and we are a small game community.

if the community doesn't know you're there it's one thing. that's fine. you can do that. just be good and stay towards the back. if that's what makes you comfortable, that's fine. we want to welcome you.

when the only interactions the community has with you are negative drama shitfests like this, then you are not compatible with the community and you should find a different one. that's what i mean by toxic codependency. we treat zyb like shit, zyb treats us like shit. and yet, for some reason, he still wants to be here. it's not a healthy relationship. it's an abusive one. this shit is like your ex from college trying to drag their way back into your life over and over again. at some point you've just got to fucking say no. find something else.

Actually, I'm going to retract this. My post is essentially just me disagreeing on what counts as community interaction, and that's fairly pointless to discuss.

Original post below because it feels wrong to just delete it.

It does not really matter because Zybwivcz fails on both counts.
He fails to interact with the community outside and inside ss13 positively.

Ugh the anticipation is killing me for this peanut

It won't live up to the hype

its a diceroll whether its an admin complaint on timberpoes (lol) or if its a ban appeal

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:29 am This is just my personal view but by playing you're not really interacting with the community (You are at a surface level, because you're playing with them. But I don't consider that to be "community interaction"). I don't really see a round on tg being much different than a match on a tf2 community server.
While you're definitely more likely to end up fully interacting with the community because of its size, it's not automatic. Communities come from similar people enjoying a topic, the topic itself doesn't become the community.

The difference between a TF2 community server and TG is the sheer time investment required. If you're going to be here for 200+ hours (which is going to happen if you have any real interest in what we host), you should be involved in the community in some capacity, even if that capacity is as small as "people recognize me in game and greet me now" or "this guy taught me how to do ordnance, that's pretty cool."

It's a weird place on the spectrum of "required community engagement to be fun." I was an admin for a very technically-oriented Garry's Mod server for a very, very long time. Community was functionally all that mattered there. TG falls a bit short of that, but the time investment is still there, and I firmly believe that by virtue of being a real, living, breathing human being you must end up becoming more involved in the community if you have a strong interest in the game.

Why?

It's 'cuz you're human. You're a social animal, dummy. You're really going to learn to play an atmospherics simulator without asking questions--without making social connections? Not gonna happen. You don't get to just pick pyro and W+M1. You gotta L E A R N.

So anyway, here's this guy with 3,744 logged hours on our servers and he's still drumming up bullshit like this

I think zyb doesn't have to be permabanned but he rather needs a sec ban and a heads ban. I think he ought to be able to not play sec at that point. Or maybe he's already had enough chances. Seems like he doesn't understand what people are talking about when they complain concerning him and that ahelping shit kind of pisses me off. Don't get people noted if you spend 20 minutes fuckin with them. Goddamn.

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:13 am

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:29 am This is just my personal view but by playing you're not really interacting with the community (You are at a surface level, because you're playing with them. But I don't consider that to be "community interaction"). I don't really see a round on tg being much different than a match on a tf2 community server.
While you're definitely more likely to end up fully interacting with the community because of its size, it's not automatic. Communities come from similar people enjoying a topic, the topic itself doesn't become the community.

The difference between a TF2 community server and TG is the sheer time investment required. If you're going to be here for 200+ hours (which is going to happen if you have any real interest in what we host), you should be involved in the community in some capacity, even if that capacity is as small as "people recognize me in game and greet me now" or "this guy taught me how to do ordnance, that's pretty cool."

It's a weird place on the spectrum of "required community engagement to be fun." I was an admin for a very technically-oriented Garry's Mod server for a very, very long time. Community was functionally all that mattered there. TG falls a bit short of that, but the time investment is still there, and I firmly believe that by virtue of being a real, living, breathing human being you must end up becoming more involved in the community if you have a strong interest in the game.

Why?

It's 'cuz you're human. You're a social animal, dummy. You're really going to learn to play an atmospherics simulator without asking questions--without making social connections? Not gonna happen. You don't get to just pick pyro and W+M1. You gotta L E A R N.

So anyway, here's this guy with 3,744 logged hours on our servers and he's still drumming up bullshit like this

There are no friends on the internet, dude.
Like I understand your point except the talk of this being a social thing because there's not one person you shouldn't be willing to backstab online if they start acting out of line. That's actually how you maintain a healthy community too by not playing favorites. Because you don't actually know them.

Neither Dirk nor Scriptis is entirely right or entirely wrong, it's somewhere in the middle

I started typing this but I am too lazy to elaborate further

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:46 am

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 3:06 am that when you've been here for more than two years it's a really fucking bad sign that nobody knows anything about you, and when they do it's only because of shit like this? this isn't cs:go matchmaking. this isn't some halo 3 lobby. these are the same people hanging out in a place they like every day and you're supposed to talk to them and hang out

Completely disagree with this outlook. While ss13 is a more social focused video game, it's still just a video game. You don't need to be a social person to roleplay. You don't need to interact with the ss13 community to enjoy the game. You don't need to make friends or hang out with people. It's a video game. People will take what they want from it and you can't fault them for that.

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 4:29 amI don't really see a round on tg being much different than a match on a tf2 community server.

You have a few hundred hours of "game content" before you burn through the mechanics and jobs and are left bored. Now what?
Well what else is there? Roleplay. Socializing. Getting involved in little stories. Maybe making the little stories. Community. That's inexhaustible.

Sometimes players start out for mechanics then learn and enjoy the social roleplay component as they go. But the really bad players, never burn out of the purely mechanical silent playstyle. When they join a round it's like they're joining the lobby of an FPS game. There's no roleplay involved, in fact lots of them make fun of roleplay, there's no soul, just sucking mechanical fun out and then disconnecting in the halls when they get bored or don't feel like playing. When these players haunt the servers for thousands and thousands of rounds without getting burned out, that's when the anvil has to be dropped on their heads. They're usually underaged anyways.

That's not to say you have to be social. But there's a reason you play the game on the servers instead of a localhost. You don't need to go HRP mode either to roleplay -- I firmly believe shovefights and playful scuffles are a form of roleplay. Literally anything that involves acting as a character, in some storyline of the round, as opposed to a soulless husk that stands in for you gaming OOCly, is roleplay.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:20 am ...

There are no friends on the internet, dude.
Like I understand your point except the talk of this being a social thing because there's not one person you shouldn't be willing to backstab online if they start acting out of line. That's actually how you maintain a healthy community too by not playing favorites. Because you don't actually know them.

What? I don't think you're getting me.

You maintain a healthy community with strong player-moderation relations. You make friends. You encourage other people to make friends. You discourage people from being antisocial.

If you don't know your own community, if your community doesn't interact with itself, you don't have a community. You have a dead Minecraft server you posted on every server board on the internet and nobody who wants to turn up because you're doing it wrong.

Most communities get spun up because of four or five friends just wanting to play some video games.

No friends on the internet? Backstab anyone you can? Man, that's some depressing shit. Who hurt you?

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:32 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:20 am ...

There are no friends on the internet, dude.
Like I understand your point except the talk of this being a social thing because there's not one person you shouldn't be willing to backstab online if they start acting out of line. That's actually how you maintain a healthy community too by not playing favorites. Because you don't actually know them.

What? I don't think you're getting me.

You maintain a healthy community with strong player-moderation relations. You make friends. You encourage other people to make friends. You discourage people from being antisocial.

If you don't know your own community, if your community doesn't interact with itself, you don't have a community. You have a dead Minecraft server you posted on every server board on the internet and nobody who wants to turn up because you're doing it wrong.

Most communities get spun up because of four or five friends just wanting to play some video games.

No friends on the internet? Backstab anyone you can? Man, that's some depressing shit. Who hurt you?

Right so if you have an admin friend who's abusing the rules and called in a favor as your friend, would you let it slide?

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:45 am ...

Right so if you have an admin friend who's abusing the rules and called in a favor as your friend, would you let it slide?

You're aware that you can be angry at people you're friends with, right?

You alright, man?

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:45 am

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:32 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:20 am ...

There are no friends on the internet, dude.
Like I understand your point except the talk of this being a social thing because there's not one person you shouldn't be willing to backstab online if they start acting out of line. That's actually how you maintain a healthy community too by not playing favorites. Because you don't actually know them.

What? I don't think you're getting me.

You maintain a healthy community with strong player-moderation relations. You make friends. You encourage other people to make friends. You discourage people from being antisocial.

If you don't know your own community, if your community doesn't interact with itself, you don't have a community. You have a dead Minecraft server you posted on every server board on the internet and nobody who wants to turn up because you're doing it wrong.

Most communities get spun up because of four or five friends just wanting to play some video games.

No friends on the internet? Backstab anyone you can? Man, that's some depressing shit. Who hurt you?

Right so if you have an admin friend who's abusing the rules and called in a favor as your friend, would you let it slide?

Dirk, I don't think that's what they mean. Like, some admins play minecraft or whatever together, because they meet in the game and become friends. I, in fact, have made friends here, and just because we are friends doesn't mean I don't backstab them, because I do. I have played some Terraria with some members that I meet here, because they are cool and fun! Again, I still kill them, and that almost makes it funner. Anyway, that's just my two cents, tell me if I am off the mark Scriptis. <3

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:45 am Right so if you have an admin friend who's abusing the rules and called in a favor as your friend, would you let it slide?

Friendships aren't transactional like that dude. You don't "call in a favor as your friend." People have something called integrity too.

Sinful and I are reading Dirk here as "treat everyone as strangers and have a plan to kill everyone you meet" as a community moderation policy which is just, so far off-base from any mindset I had even considered even slightly reasonable. I dunno man, I'm at a loss.

I don't know why I'm being asked leading questions about corruption, either.

Maybe I'm just tired.

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:50 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:45 am ...

Right so if you have an admin friend who's abusing the rules and called in a favor as your friend, would you let it slide?

You're aware that you can be angry at people you're friends with, right?

You alright, man?

Yeah I'm fine I just don't see how it's a smart decision to make friends online. Leaving aside the people I've seen self destruct online over the years... your role as an admin is to met out discipline for rules valuations.
But I don't know. You're right that the questioning could come across as leading so I'm not going to go down further that road since I haven't seen or heard anything amiss regarding that so I'm not going to try to put you on the back foot.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:09 am Yeah I'm fine I just don't see how it's a smart decision to make friends online. Leaving aside the people I've seen self destruct online over the years... your role as an admin is to met out discipline for rules valuations.

My role as an admin is to maintain the community, not blindly enforce the rules. This is a clubhouse, not a courtroom.

As for making friends--look, the medium is irrelevant. We're still just regular people. I've seen just as many people self-destruct in the real world as I have on the internet. The same rules apply otherwise; don't follow the shady guy into the alleyway. But the whole "trust nobody, and carry a gun at all times just in case" thing is just... it doesn't work, man. It really doesn't. If you can find me a single small game community that isn't dead that operates like that, I'd truly be impressed.

Well you created the zyb shitsec metric so I guess I can't look a gift horse in the mouth by trying to poke holes in the thought process that spawned that.
If nothing else but because of how much that bothered him.

You can ask, man.

• I was a player at the time.
• Zyb attempted to wordlessly arrest me in maintenance.
• I cuffed him and attempted to de-escalate.
• He refused to talk to me for twenty minutes while getting an admin involved and constantly trying to break out of his cuffs to kill me for stopping his wordless arrest.
• Immediately after the admin had me let him go, the first words out of his mouth were "kill Brick" (read: me).
• He opened an admin complaint against the admin that didn't side with him as an OOC stopgap to an IC issue.
• I created that shitpost of a metric to very boldly demonstrate how hopeless of a player he was at the time: "the fraction of the words you say that are just the names of antags."

There's your thought process

edit: I dug up the complaint for you as well

In hindsight it was a mistake not preemptively banning him from hop or any other head roles for that matter. Should've been foreseeable that he would've played hopcurity.
Furthermore I think restricting him to assistant only would be funny. Might make him more mad than the permaban.

We ain't minority report, preemptively banning people is bad, change my mind.

Zybwivcz playing assistant security without gamer gear and getting lynched repeatedly would be funny. More funny than perma'ing him in my opinion.
Also ban him from random names.
We can rehabilitate him, lads.

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:13 am The difference between a TF2 community server and TG is the sheer time investment required. If you're going to be here for 200+ hours (which is going to happen if you have any real interest in what we host), you should be involved in the community in some capacity, even if that capacity is as small as "people recognize me in game and greet me now" or "this guy taught me how to do ordnance, that's pretty cool."

I agree with this. It would be easier to enjoy the game when you're a member of the community. I won't dispute that having friends makes games a lot more enjoyable. However, I mainly disagreed with your original post that made it seem like not interacting with the community was a BAD thing.

Scriptis wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:13 am It's 'cuz you're human. You're a social animal, dummy. You're really going to learn to play an atmospherics simulator without asking questions--without making social connections? Not gonna happen. You don't get to just pick pyro and W+M1. You gotta L E A R N.

In my time learning ss13 I made one friend. They noticed I was new and helped me with a few things in-game. However, 95% of everything I know is self-taught. From medbay, chemistry, botany etc. I just made a localhost and tested things. This probably isn't the best way to learn, but I enjoyed it.

Anyway, I do agree with what you're saying. I just read "that when you've been here for more than two years it's a really fucking bad sign that nobody knows anything about you" and strongly disagreed with it. Maybe because it applies to me? I don't know.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 6:32 am You have a few hundred hours of "game content" before you burn through the mechanics and jobs and are left bored. Now what?
Well what else is there? Roleplay. Socializing. Getting involved in little stories. Maybe making the little stories. Community. That's inexhaustible.

To me roleplaying should feel natural. Ideally it's not something you need to go out of your way to interact with. I don't think roleplaying or socializing in-character is interacting with the community, it's just a part of playing the game.

As I said before, this is just me disagreeing on what "interacting with the community" is. To me that's something like making a forum post or talking with people on the discord. Not doing things in-game that you should already be doing.

Mice World wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:16 am
Anyway, I do agree with what you're saying. I just read "that when you've been here for more than two years it's a really fucking bad sign that nobody knows anything about you" and strongly disagreed with it. Maybe because it applies to me? I don't know.

Going to cosign this. People don't have to know you on a friendly level for you to be a good player.
You do want to avoid becoming an infamous player, which was zybwivcz's problem.
But I still think he can be fixed by making him wear a scarlet letter so to speak rather than reaching for a ban evasion perma.

vect0r wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 7:58 am We ain't minority report, preemptively banning people is bad, change my mind.

This isnt a preemptive ban, he got permabanned for evading a permaban

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:01 am Zybwivcz playing assistant security without gamer gear and getting lynched repeatedly would be funny. More funny than perma'ing him in my opinion.
Also ban him from random names.
We can rehabilitate him, lads.

I somewhat agree, I dont know much of Zybs history but they might one day figure out more fun ways to play this, though their behaviour in this thread does not give me great confidence

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:55 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:01 am Zybwivcz playing assistant security without gamer gear and getting lynched repeatedly would be funny. More funny than perma'ing him in my opinion.
Also ban him from random names.
We can rehabilitate him, lads.

I somewhat agree, I dont know much of Zybs history but they might one day figure out more fun ways to play this, though their behaviour in this thread does not give me great confidence

He can always be permabanned later.
I'm going to keep beating this dead horse until it's deadest:
Appearance ban with the middle name 'Zyb' in his forced static name so everyone knows who he is.
Job banned into the assistant zone.
Also banned from ahelping.
He'll either be fixed or I'll be entertained seeing him manage to get himself banned again for trying to play assistant cop.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 9:01 am

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:55 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 8:01 am Zybwivcz playing assistant security without gamer gear and getting lynched repeatedly would be funny. More funny than perma'ing him in my opinion.
Also ban him from random names.
We can rehabilitate him, lads.

I somewhat agree, I dont know much of Zybs history but they might one day figure out more fun ways to play this, though their behaviour in this thread does not give me great confidence

He can always be permabanned later.
I'm going to keep beating this dead horse until it's deadest:
Appearance ban with the middle name 'Zyb' in his forced static name so everyone knows who he is.
Job banned into the assistant zone.
Also banned from ahelping.
He'll either be fixed or I'll be entertained seeing him manage to get himself banned again for trying to play assistant cop.

It would be funny but he’d probably just continue to shit up the place in boring-but-not-rulebreaking ways so I genuinely don’t see why he should be given a 16th chance.

https://youtu.be/VGIlJhMAGyk this is the one (1) in game interaction I know that I've had with zyb. Round 202885, zyb is roundstart HoP on an awfully-started round where everyone is on the escape shuttle and gets teleported to the AI sat. My suit gets stripped, my ID and PDA stolen by the chaplain in the video, and I eventually teleport onto station transformed into a mostly-nude flyperson.

12:52:47 SAY Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) "I'll just give you maint" (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:12 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Armory to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison.
12:53:12 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Armory to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison. (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:13 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Security to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison.
12:53:13 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Security to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison. (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:14 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Holding Cells to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison.
12:53:14 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Holding Cells to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison. (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:16 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Power and Engineering Equipment to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison.
12:53:16 GAME Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) added Power and Engineering Equipment to an ID card belonging to Josiah Harrison. (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:46 EMOTE Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) points at Some Shitass's ID Card (Roboticist) (62, 123, 3) Head of Personnel's Office
12:53:50 SAY Zybwivcz/(Josiah Harrison) "you're welcome" (85, 132, 3) Captain's Office

is what zyb was clicking at ~36 seconds

ekaterina wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:19 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:13 pm

Zybwivcz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 8:05 am

Boot wrote: ↑Fri Apr 28, 2023 7:41 am So first off you don't need Sechuds to be a Head of personnel, you want them because the moment you see the red w you want to be able to chase them down.

There is an entire game mode where having or not having a sec hud as a head is the difference between winding up a headless corpse in maint and not.

This is just powergaming, you are basing something of x antag rolling. This type of play is really unfun, its like stealing the chaps nullrod because there is a gamemode were its the difference between life and death.

That's different. Sec huds exist in dozens, taking one doesn't harm anyone, but the null rod is unique.

You can also print sec huds once they get the research, but it is a pretty cheap and early research node and as the HoP you have the reseearch app on your PDA and can research it yourself, then you can just craft your glasses into sec glasses.

The real problem was Zyb giving himself holding cells access round start and then gulaging people as HoP.
The reasons why he wasn't "caught" were because he was randomnaming, making it harder for others to identify him, and that admins aren't usually aware because they don't get pinged when he performs a change of access or are aware of his notes.

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:33 am The real problem was Zyb giving himself holding cells access round start and then gulaging people as HoP.
The reasons why he wasn't "caught" were because he was randomnaming, making it harder for others to identify him, and that admins aren't usually aware because they don't get pinged when he performs a change of access or are aware of his notes.

He should be appearanced banned to fix the randomnaming.
What I'm proposing is a degradation of zyb to the point that there is no practical way he can interfere with antagonists, yet his compulsion to play the game will keep him around.
A clockwork zybwivcz.
Job ban him to assistant only, force him to have a static name, give him the pacifist trait, and the galactic uncommon trait. Watch him to see if he keeps playing under these circumstances. He can be rehabilitated.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:41 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:33 am The real problem was Zyb giving himself holding cells access round start and then gulaging people as HoP.
The reasons why he wasn't "caught" were because he was randomnaming, making it harder for others to identify him, and that admins aren't usually aware because they don't get pinged when he performs a change of access or are aware of his notes.

He should be appearanced banned to fix the randomnaming.
What I'm proposing is a degradation of zyb to the point that there is no practical way he can interfere with antagonists, yet his compulsion to play the game will keep him around.
A clockwork zybwivcz.
Job ban him to assistant only, force him to have a static name, give him the pacifist trait, and the galactic uncommon trait. Watch him to see if he keeps playing under these circumstances. He can be rehabilitated.

"Encourage him to roleplay by (among other things) removing his ability to talk with other players"
This might be one of the dumbest suggestions I've read on player rehabilitation.

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:49 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:41 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:33 am The real problem was Zyb giving himself holding cells access round start and then gulaging people as HoP.
The reasons why he wasn't "caught" were because he was randomnaming, making it harder for others to identify him, and that admins aren't usually aware because they don't get pinged when he performs a change of access or are aware of his notes.

He should be appearanced banned to fix the randomnaming.
What I'm proposing is a degradation of zyb to the point that there is no practical way he can interfere with antagonists, yet his compulsion to play the game will keep him around.
A clockwork zybwivcz.
Job ban him to assistant only, force him to have a static name, give him the pacifist trait, and the galactic uncommon trait. Watch him to see if he keeps playing under these circumstances. He can be rehabilitated.

"Encourage him to roleplay by (among other things) removing his ability to talk with other players"
This might be one of the dumbest suggestions I've read on player rehabilitation.

agreed with ekaterina here, are you rehabiliting the man or subjecting him to such a miserable time that he may as well be perma'd anyways??

ekaterina wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:49 am

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:41 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 29, 2023 10:33 am The real problem was Zyb giving himself holding cells access round start and then gulaging people as HoP.
The reasons why he wasn't "caught" were because he was randomnaming, making it harder for others to identify him, and that admins aren't usually aware because they don't get pinged when he performs a change of access or are aware of his notes.

He should be appearanced banned to fix the randomnaming.
What I'm proposing is a degradation of zyb to the point that there is no practical way he can interfere with antagonists, yet his compulsion to play the game will keep him around.
A clockwork zybwivcz.
Job ban him to assistant only, force him to have a static name, give him the pacifist trait, and the galactic uncommon trait. Watch him to see if he keeps playing under these circumstances. He can be rehabilitated.

"Encourage him to roleplay by (among other things) removing his ability to talk with other players"
This might be one of the dumbest suggestions I've read on player rehabilitation.

He can still talk to the curator.