/tg/Station 13

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Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:27 am People are showing basic kindness game is a hugbox

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:43 am Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff. Imagine being the mapper behind one of these stations thinking you can finally go play the game and have some fun without being bombarded by "I hate X" and then the fucking nukie called "FUCK TRAM FUCK NORTHSTAR FUCK BIRDSHIT" shows up. That must fucking suck, keep the note

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:27 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:09 am Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

It's not protecting the map, it's protecting the creator of the map, who is, or at least was, a player before getting harrassed out of the game by things like this. To you, it's a lighthearted "hahaha get it guys i'm joking about not liking the map", to them, it's yet another slap in the face they've received for dedicating a large amount of their time to a project.
Rule 4 affords no out of character protections. You can't bully someone in OOC just because you're an antagonist in the round, as an example. Setting a nukie name is an OOC act. Your character doesn't choose their family name at the start of their mission; you're not interacting with a console, or saying something, to change your name. It's a completely OOC prompt with very few, mostly non-impactful IC consequences.
Setting your nukie name to FUCK TRAM ALL MY HOMIES HATE TRAM isn't going to do much beyond annoy players who like tram. You aren't rewarded for or encouraged to have a stupid or funny name.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

IMO it ultimately depends on how far you go. It's very contextual.
If you go on a full crag-tier rant about how the coders are dung-guzzling wankers that eat raw alligator cocks for breakfast because they removed nanites, I could see an admin muting OOC and giving you a stern talking to. "I don't like <X map>" is probably fine. going into detail is probably fine. it's when you're abusive or excessive about it that it becomes a harassment issue. Expletives generally don't lend themselves well to constructive criticism.
When you take it into a nukie name, you're taking OOC (your opinion of the map) into IC(your character's last name).

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:34 am stay on Manuel.

>someone says they struggle with people verbally abusing them/their work on a regular basis
>proceeds to use weird server tribalism & rib them
I don't care if this is serious or not, the timing seems real off. You kinda suck.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:02 am It is everywhere. I cannot go anywhere in the community because I'm told straight to my face that the project I care about is shit without any constructive feedback behind it. I literally do not want to play the game, admin, or contribute because it feels like feeding a pack of coyotes that'll just gnaw at my arm.

oranges wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 9:29 am no no, you're confused, i'm not upset that people hate me, I don't like that they hate people like chesify who are literally super nice and do nothing to them but try to contribute their passion.

because that's exactly what allows the situation where I am the headcoder despite all of my negative flaws.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:03 pm Apologies for the forbidden double post, but this is an open source game, and no one is entitled to play here. Same goes for coders, if you enforce your map on people, and a vocal minority don’t like it. Learn to cope or ignore them. This is an open source project, so buck up sonny and not let them get to you, or log off. No one deserves special treatment because of how much they contribute or admin. We are all equal.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:43 am Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff. Imagine being the mapper behind one of these stations thinking you can finally go play the game and have some fun without being bombarded by "I hate X" and then the fucking nukie called "FUCK TRAM FUCK NORTHSTAR FUCK BIRDSHIT" shows up. That must fucking suck, keep the note

Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:03 pm Apologies for the forbidden double post, but this is an open source game, and no one is entitled to play here. Same goes for coders, if you enforce your map on people, and a vocal minority don’t like it. Learn to cope or ignore them. This is an open source project, so buck up sonny and not let them get to you, or log off. No one deserves special treatment because of how much they contribute or admin. We are all equal.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:43 am Name sucks, this deserves the note and is just in general rule 1 stuff. Imagine being the mapper behind one of these stations thinking you can finally go play the game and have some fun without being bombarded by "I hate X" and then the fucking nukie called "FUCK TRAM FUCK NORTHSTAR FUCK BIRDSHIT" shows up. That must fucking suck, keep the note

Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:03 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:27 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:09 am Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

It's not protecting the map, it's protecting the creator of the map, who is, or at least was, a player before getting harrassed out of the game by things like this. To you, it's a lighthearted "hahaha get it guys i'm joking about not liking the map", to them, it's yet another slap in the face they've received for dedicating a large amount of their time to a project.
Rule 4 affords no out of character protections. You can't bully someone in OOC just because you're an antagonist in the round, as an example. Setting a nukie name is an OOC act. Your character doesn't choose their family name at the start of their mission; you're not interacting with a console, or saying something, to change your name. It's a completely OOC prompt with very few, mostly non-impactful IC consequences.
Setting your nukie name to FUCK TRAM ALL MY HOMIES HATE TRAM isn't going to do much beyond annoy players who like tram. You aren't rewarded for or encouraged to have a stupid or funny name.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

IMO it ultimately depends on how far you go. It's very contextual.
If you go on a full crag-tier rant about how the coders are dung-guzzling wankers that eat raw alligator cocks for breakfast because they removed nanites, I could see an admin muting OOC and giving you a stern talking to. "I don't like <X map>" is probably fine. going into detail is probably fine. it's when you're abusive or excessive about it that it becomes a harassment issue. Expletives generally don't lend themselves well to constructive criticism.
When you take it into a nukie name, you're taking OOC (your opinion of the map) into IC(your character's last name).

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:34 am stay on Manuel.

>someone says they struggle with people verbally abusing them/their work on a regular basis
>proceeds to use weird server tribalism & rib them
I don't care if this is serious or not, the timing seems real off. You kinda suck.

Apologies for the forbidden double post, but this is an open source game, and no one is entitled to play here. Same goes for coders, if you enforce your map on people, and a vocal minority don’t like it. Learn to cope or ignore them. This is an open source project, so buck up sonny and not let them get to you, or log off. No one deserves special treatment because of how much they contribute or admin. We are all equal.

conrad wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:45 pm I don't like Birdshot and Northstar, but I see them improving over time and I got no reason or right to just go ballistic at them.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:56 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 12:45 pm I don't like Birdshot and Northstar, but I see them improving over time and I got no reason or right to just go ballistic at them.

Yes or no question: are nuclear operatives the type of antagonist that would "go ballistic" at things?
Big boy followup question (don't strain too hard): if yes, should their name be a valid part of that?

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:36 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 2:03 pm

datorangebottle wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:27 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:09 am Rule 1 doesn't apply to antagonists like nukies who are sent to blow everyone up, nor is it there to protect a non-sentient entity like a map.

It's not protecting the map, it's protecting the creator of the map, who is, or at least was, a player before getting harrassed out of the game by things like this. To you, it's a lighthearted "hahaha get it guys i'm joking about not liking the map", to them, it's yet another slap in the face they've received for dedicating a large amount of their time to a project.
Rule 4 affords no out of character protections. You can't bully someone in OOC just because you're an antagonist in the round, as an example. Setting a nukie name is an OOC act. Your character doesn't choose their family name at the start of their mission; you're not interacting with a console, or saying something, to change your name. It's a completely OOC prompt with very few, mostly non-impactful IC consequences.
Setting your nukie name to FUCK TRAM ALL MY HOMIES HATE TRAM isn't going to do much beyond annoy players who like tram. You aren't rewarded for or encouraged to have a stupid or funny name.

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:38 am On topic about the actual peanut, if you can get a note for a name like that, can you get a note for saying you don't like a map in OOC since you're technically being a dick to the mapper who made it? If you say you don't like a new feature/removal in OOC, is that a rule violation to the coder who made the change? If those examples don't count, why does it count for nuclear operative names? Where is the line in the sand drawn differently? Sorry to play the devil's advocate here, but I'm curious on the justification.

IMO it ultimately depends on how far you go. It's very contextual.
If you go on a full crag-tier rant about how the coders are dung-guzzling wankers that eat raw alligator cocks for breakfast because they removed nanites, I could see an admin muting OOC and giving you a stern talking to. "I don't like <X map>" is probably fine. going into detail is probably fine. it's when you're abusive or excessive about it that it becomes a harassment issue. Expletives generally don't lend themselves well to constructive criticism.
When you take it into a nukie name, you're taking OOC (your opinion of the map) into IC(your character's last name).

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:34 am stay on Manuel.

>someone says they struggle with people verbally abusing them/their work on a regular basis
>proceeds to use weird server tribalism & rib them
I don't care if this is serious or not, the timing seems real off. You kinda suck.

Apologies for the forbidden double post, but this is an open source game, and no one is entitled to play here. Same goes for coders, if you enforce your map on people, and a vocal minority don’t like it. Learn to cope or ignore them. This is an open source project, so buck up sonny and not let them get to you, or log off. No one deserves special treatment because of how much they contribute or admin. We are all equal.

except, we arent equal, all we do is PLAY here, and i'm on team coderbus for this one.
can you IMAGINE how many fucking hours chesh put into making northstar, only to, as he described, be attacked on all sides, in game, out of game, discord, etc etc. I don't have to be a game designer or coder to know that that's soul crushing when you put a lot of effort into something only to have a bunch of people scream at you that it sucks

it's absolutely necessary for people like chesh to speak up about how this personally affects him, so that we can take a step back every once in awhile and remind ourselves that we're all just hanging out in a small corner of the internet and that these guys are trying to make it better for us as players
yeah, chesh could get thicker skin, and get over it, but then we'd just have another oranges, and just one of him is enough, thanks

put disco inferno back into buyable shuttles plzkthx

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:18 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

there is a fine line between saying what you dont like about a map and being a poopoohead about it. Even something like "why the FUCK is x the way it is?" or "what the HELL did you do to y????" can at the very least invite a conversation. Just being mean with no valuable critique doesn't do anything for anyone though. The issue isnt that criticism happens, but that there is such a large amount that is not helpful in any way (which must be frustrating if your only goal is to improve the map and actually fix the issues)

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:30 pm If you consider a nukie family name as anything more than half-assed shitposting some guy thought of during the beginning 30 seconds of adrenaline rush after rolling, you are taking this game way too seriously and need to touch grass.

That's my final comment on it.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:08 am maybe nuclear operative names are supposed to suck

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:37 pm i remember someone talking to chesh about how chemistry was way too small and chesh replied to them that it was on purpose, that departments are meant to be “kilo-sized”. i also remember talking to chesh some months back about the pods all being in one area and how it defeats the entire design of escape pods, but they kept that in i think. im not here to comment on the design of the map- because i haven’t played it. but i want to comment on this sort of weird design mentality that mappers (and coders) seem to have on tg these days. these days, it feels like mappers intentionally try to make their station hostile to play on. tram immediately comes to mind- i mean the tagline is “tram: keeps medical busy”-, and birdshot is intentionally just fucking awful. i have more to say about these two maps but i digress.

maybe it’s a little unfair to lump northstar as one of those “hostile to play on” maps but to be honest the only reason why i have zero interest in it is because i genuinely think multi-z is a mistake and that the game would be better off without it. but anyways im rambling on here. if you’re going to intentionally design your map in a certain way you should probably expect “x sucks” - just stay true to yourself and have a design plan you’re following - it doesn’t help that there’s a headcoder whose job is solely to try to make things as toxic as possible, if they’re not already busy calling strangers “bottoms”

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:27 pm While that would be the ideal, we can’t expect all our community members to have that level of decorum as nice as it would be. Everyone here is extremely passionate about this ancient space game and emotions tend to run high.

Players get assmad about changes, and then coders get assmad about players getting mad about changes. At the end of the day though, this is just a game, and nothing here really matters. Just as players have no right to play here, coders should expect no right to
Be able to code here and be completely isolated from the response to their code.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:27 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:18 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

there is a fine line between saying what you dont like about a map and being a poopoohead about it. Even something like "why the FUCK is x the way it is?" or "what the HELL did you do to y????" can at the very least invite a conversation. Just being mean with no valuable critique doesn't do anything for anyone though. The issue isnt that criticism happens, but that there is such a large amount that is not helpful in any way (which must be frustrating if your only goal is to improve the map and actually fix the issues)

While that would be the ideal, we can’t expect all our community members to have that level of decorum as nice as it would be. Everyone here is extremely passionate about this ancient space game and emotions tend to run high.

Players get assmad about changes, and then coders get assmad about players getting mad about changes. At the end of the day though, this is just a game, and nothing here really matters. Just as players have no right to play here, coders should expect no right to
Be able to code here and be completely isolated from the response to their code.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:43 pm 1) Whether or not the map actually sucks isn't relevant to the conversation, though I'll note that "multi-z is a mistake" is such a weird fucking take, what?

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:37 pm im not here to comment on the design of the map- because i haven’t played it. but i want to comment on this sort of weird design mentality that mappers (and coders) seem to have on tg these days.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:43 pm 2) If you can be bothered to bitch about how a map sucks, you can be bothered to give actual criticism. "(map) sucks" isn't criticism, it's bullshit noise. "I don't like the chemistry on this map because it's too small for me" is good feedback, but it's up to the creator as to whether or not they take that into consideration.

iwishforducks wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:37 pm if you’re going to intentionally design your map in a certain way you should probably expect “x sucks” - just stay true to yourself and have a design plan you’re following

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:27 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:18 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

there is a fine line between saying what you dont like about a map and being a poopoohead about it. Even something like "why the FUCK is x the way it is?" or "what the HELL did you do to y????" can at the very least invite a conversation. Just being mean with no valuable critique doesn't do anything for anyone though. The issue isnt that criticism happens, but that there is such a large amount that is not helpful in any way (which must be frustrating if your only goal is to improve the map and actually fix the issues)

While that would be the ideal, we can’t expect all our community members to have that level of decorum as nice as it would be. Everyone here is extremely passionate about this ancient space game and emotions tend to run high.

Players get assmad about changes, and then coders get assmad about players getting mad about changes. At the end of the day though, this is just a game, and nothing here really matters. Just as players have no right to play here, coders should expect no right to
Be able to code here and be completely isolated from the response to their code.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:13 pm The point is, no one is above criticism, and dispite how awful it makes me feel to say, even with how kind Chesh is, they aren’t either. It comes with the territory.

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:22 pm We have look up and move up keybindings???

• "L" is to look up the Z level above you, ";" is to look down the Z level below you (though I've never been able to get this one to work)

• "Page Up" lets you move upwards Z levels

WineAllWine wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:54 pm This is the best peanut title we've had recently (most of them have been crap)

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:10 pm I believe the major issue is that Sinful is sincere in that it was meant to be a joke.

Vekter wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:14 pm

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:10 pm I believe the major issue is that Sinful is sincere in that it was meant to be a joke.

And I believe the major issue is that I think they didn't.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:10 pm I'm not a big fan that this note started off with Vekter misunderstanding the current naming policy then post hoc rationalizing it. The fact is that Vekter noted him "mainly" because of something that wasn't even a rule. This should be lifted on these grounds alone.

Admins [...] can approve or disallow names at their discretion while in-game.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 3:13 pm The point is, no one is above criticism, and dispite how awful it makes me feel to say, even with how kind Chesh is, they aren’t either. It comes with the territory.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:47 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

This is the worst kind of take. You can't simply chalk up bad and stupid behaviour to "how it's always been" or else nothing will ever change. You need to make a stand and tell people to shut the fuck up or contribute constructively. If you can't handle that, don't play an open source game where you refuse to make the changes you want to see.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:54 pm

Cheshify wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:47 pm

Adam Klein wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 1:53 pm Hot take, but if you can’t take the heat get out of the kitchen. autists are going to autisticly screech about changes they don’t like. If you can’t handle that as a coder, don’t code for an open source game where your changes will be forced on everyone.

This is the worst kind of take. You can't simply chalk up bad and stupid behaviour to "how it's always been" or else nothing will ever change. You need to make a stand and tell people to shut the fuck up or contribute constructively. If you can't handle that, don't play an open source game where you refuse to make the changes you want to see.

Sounds pretty easy then. Just ignore the rabble who have no power over you and keep on doing what you want to do. If you can't handle people not liking what you make in a way you view as "unconstructive" then I would suggest going to a space where only you get to decide who speaks. Personally I would think that would suck because I like what you do so I do ask you to grow up, not out of a sense of being mean or spiteful but because you are going to deal with people who are alot crazier then some random shitters saying "northstar sucks".

Fren256 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 4:49 pm

• "L" is to look up the Z level above you, ";" is to look down the Z level below you (though I've never been able to get this one to work)

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:09 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:54 pm Sounds pretty easy then. Just ignore the rabble who have no power over you and keep on doing what you want to do. If you can't handle people not liking what you make in a way you view as "unconstructive" then I would suggest going to a space where only you get to decide who speaks. Personally I would think that would suck because I like what you do so I do ask you to grow up, not out of a sense of being mean or spiteful but because you are going to deal with people who are alot crazier then some random shitters saying "northstar sucks".

why should volunteer coders / mappers have to take weirdos attacking them instead of an admin telling them to knock it off for not giving anything constructive

Archie700 wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 5:10 pm I believe the major issue is that Sinful is sincere in that it was meant to be a joke.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:15 pm

TheLoLSwat wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 7:09 pm

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:54 pm Sounds pretty easy then. Just ignore the rabble who have no power over you and keep on doing what you want to do. If you can't handle people not liking what you make in a way you view as "unconstructive" then I would suggest going to a space where only you get to decide who speaks. Personally I would think that would suck because I like what you do so I do ask you to grow up, not out of a sense of being mean or spiteful but because you are going to deal with people who are alot crazier then some random shitters saying "northstar sucks".

why should volunteer coders / mappers have to take weirdos attacking them instead of an admin telling them to knock it off for not giving anything constructive

I don't want to create a space where saying "I don't like northstar" gets you nuked for not being constructive. We don't do this for anyone else and we've been doing fine.

Boot wrote: ↑Wed May 10, 2023 6:54 pm Sounds pretty easy then. Just ignore the rabble who have no power over you and keep on doing what you want to do.