Reider Meza - How I learned to stop worrying and love the Bwoink
Posted: Tue May 16, 2023 12:24 am
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viewtopic.php?p=685781#p685781You literally just said roleplaying game game
What are you talking about? You brought up "doomman" and "edgemasters" not me? If you want to force that interpretation of someone fighting over tools as them being doomguy I dont think lrp mrp or hrp is right for you unless you are clearly joking about it as the clown or something.
You are trying to argue with vekter's ruling on the basis of a semantic objection. You are saying that causing destruction is a form of roleplay, so they couldn't be guilty of a lack of RP. The issue being that nobody besides you considers that roleplay, and even if we did it doesn't change the fact that players like that are universally not enjoyable to play around if its the only thing they ever do.
I did not narrow it down to destruction although destruction in all its forms can be present within a dynamic interaction that comes from other players, roleplay is literally how you impact everyone regardless if its positive or negative, do you feel anger when someone breaks into your room? do you feel joy when the engineer does his job and you dont have to worry about power? do you feel contempt when someone else uses all of the materials? Good because you are feeling as though you are from the perspective of the character you are playing as given your personality.Lacran wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:45 am You are trying to argue with vekter's ruling on the basis of a semantic objection. You are saying that causing destruction is a form of roleplay, so they couldn't be guilty of a lack of RP. The issue being that nobody besides you considers that roleplay, and even if we did it doesn't change the fact that players like that are universally not enjoyable to play around if its the only thing they ever do.
Your generous reinterpration of what Roleplay is doesn't actually justify this persons actions.MooCow12 wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:41 am I did not narrow it down to destruction although destruction in all its forms can be present within a dynamic interaction that comes from other players, roleplay is literally how you impact everyone regardless if its positive or negative, do you feel anger when someone breaks into your room? do you feel joy when the engineer does his job and you dont have to worry about power? do you feel contempt when someone else uses all of the materials?
Roleplay does not have to be direct it does not have to be verbal it does not have to be obvious and it does not have to make you feel good.
To repeat what I said on the discord, unless it gets overruled by headmins, he has until the next headmin term, or next year I guess, to get his act together, and then try to rejoin as a reformed player.Scriptis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:48 am upon closer inspection i think vekter may be right due to the fact that--
well, to be perfectly honest, i've less led maskenary to water here than i have drowned him in the lake at this point, and i'm usually too lenient anyway so maybe shouldn't be my call for once
i'm still disappointed and i hope he keeps hanging out on discord despite the ban (and gets parole for hanging out in discord and being a part of the community despite all the odds stacked against him)
{Also the "desire and desperation" you talk about is things like "that guy took insuls before me I must fight him because I am impatient"}Archie700 wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:42 am Also the "desire and desperation" you talk about is things like "that guy took insuls before me I must fight him because I am impatient" or "I must raid medbay by myself for supplies over being punched", or "let me make a entire security chase me by being a complete ass to players" so if your idea of high RP is to constantly be an edgy troublemaker then I guess hippiestation was high RP.
I'd agree with this if it was relevant at all to the current case.MooCow12 wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:41 amI did not narrow it down to destruction although destruction in all its forms can be present within a dynamic interaction that comes from other players, roleplay is literally how you impact everyone regardless if its positive or negative, do you feel anger when someone breaks into your room? do you feel joy when the engineer does his job and you dont have to worry about power? do you feel contempt when someone else uses all of the materials? Good because you are feeling as though you are from the perspective of the character you are playing as given your personality.Lacran wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:45 am You are trying to argue with vekter's ruling on the basis of a semantic objection. You are saying that causing destruction is a form of roleplay, so they couldn't be guilty of a lack of RP. The issue being that nobody besides you considers that roleplay, and even if we did it doesn't change the fact that players like that are universally not enjoyable to play around if its the only thing they ever do.
Roleplay does not have to be direct it does not have to be verbal it does not have to be obvious and it does not have to make you feel good.
No but the more you namecall the more i want to die on a hill directly opposite from yours.
You are right none of the arguements so far have been about this, I even said earlier there were better reasons to ban reider than just not talking and this is one of those scenarios where talking is worse than not talking.kinnebian wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:52 am
You catch the guy who wordlessly slighted you in some way, and when you beat him in a fight? he just screams "unrobust" then disconnects. Thats not RP, thats just lame.
I'd make the argument that rule 12 is designed for people like Reider, where his competitive "play-to-win" behaviour is actively harmful to other players rounds, no matter if hes caught.
Has shown a willing refusal to interact with the game in any context other than as a combat simulator. Repeated and constant violations of rules 1, 10, and 12 over the last few years, including consistent attempts to avoid actually RPing in a role-playing game, to the point where they will go far, far out of their way to steal things instead of ask for them. What little RP they engage in is sufficiently low-quality to be questioned as actual RP. While we would normally need an inciting incident to escalate to a permanent ban, we are placing this as a quality control measure.
This was mainly what alienated me from Vekter that and combination of this and stuff going on irl for me to try to avoid is why id rather type away in a peanut thread than deal with that. I dont LIKE people being removed from a community and its not something i can internally feel right about without sufficient copium like "he did this really really bad thing that actually did hurt everyone"Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:42 am
You're not understanding how his actions affect other players. His refusal to RP isn't an excuse. He actively refuses to RP with people because his preferred method of getting things is to break in, steal it, and beat the absolute piss out of anyone who tries to stop him.
He will have to be the second coming of Jesus Christ to get it appealed before the year is upconrad wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:50 amTo repeat what I said on the discord, unless it gets overruled by headmins, he has until the next headmin term, or next year I guess, to get his act together, and then try to rejoin as a reformed player.Scriptis wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:48 am upon closer inspection i think vekter may be right due to the fact that--
well, to be perfectly honest, i've less led maskenary to water here than i have drowned him in the lake at this point, and i'm usually too lenient anyway so maybe shouldn't be my call for once
i'm still disappointed and i hope he keeps hanging out on discord despite the ban (and gets parole for hanging out in discord and being a part of the community despite all the odds stacked against him)
But I'm too cynical to believe that'll be the case.
i wrote an entire paragraph explaining how the lrp culture has caused the degeneration of antag gimmick play styles & how it affects how people play & start conflicts, only to realize it made 0 sense given the context and sounded like deluded ramblingsLacran wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:37 amConflict is important in a round, but that's also why we have antags, if this person solely comes to the game to wordlessly create conflict they are just fabricating conflict so they can line toe self antagging.
this.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:57 am More thoughts:
People don't want to be around Meza. It's pretty clear why, because everybody thinks they are a 'greytiding shit'. They get pretty much valided, and because of there reputation, it's ok, as it's 'just meza'. This toxic cycle of everything just shitting on Reider whenever they get brought up means they never really have a chance to roleplay. They have never been shown good RP, just collecting bans for not RPing, and I would assume they have tried once, and just got fucking dunked by everybody else.
For the record, I can and have bonked people for treating Reider (among other "known shitters") differently based on prior knowledge. That's just objectively against the rules. Like I said earlier, as far as I'm aware, the last time anyone in the admin team even talked about helping Reider improve as a player was a year ago. If this is his effort over a year, it's not enough. It's not worth sacrificing everyone else's experience for one player in the hopes they'll get better while they say shit like "i am testing new loadout...""MAGBOOT + ADVANCED INSUL" "+ BATON" in-character and spend pretty much every round being a nuisance to everyone around them. I respect you and understand your perspective, but I'd appreciate if you respected mine - this isn't just because he doesn't talk enough, it's because what talking he does is stupid, inane, OOC bullshit that doesn't pass the sniff test and he's a massive pain in the ass to anyone who even remotely inconveniences him IC.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:08 pmthis.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:57 am More thoughts:
People don't want to be around Meza. It's pretty clear why, because everybody thinks they are a 'greytiding shit'. They get pretty much valided, and because of there reputation, it's ok, as it's 'just meza'. This toxic cycle of everything just shitting on Reider whenever they get brought up means they never really have a chance to roleplay. They have never been shown good RP, just collecting bans for not RPing, and I would assume they have tried once, and just got fucking dunked by everybody else.
if you can establish a pattern of NOT TREATING THEM LIKE A FUCKING MONGOLOID every encounter, they will very quickly lighten up
I can't tell you how many times ive observed reider and seen people fucking with him JUST BECAUSE ITS REIDER.
I can't tell you how many times ive witnessed players that should have been banned for metagrudging the guy IC.
the IC spreads to OOC which infests more and more IC
i've watched reider in command roles before and the fucking amount of literal ROVING BANDS OF TIDERS that fuck with him just "because its reider" rivals the amount that would go after dean ivanov, BOTH OF WHOM would ALSO go into departments and steal shit instead of asking for it. dean was ALSO just as mute when it comes to roleplay as Reider (sorry dean i love you)
TLDR-
Reiders banning is a result of a self fulfilling prophecy.
Self-fulfilling prophecy, also known as interpersonal expectancy effect, refers to the phenomenon whereby a person's or a group's expectation for the behavior of another person or group serves actually to bring about the prophesied or expected behavior.
the fact that he doesn't talk enough to make the admins happy should not be grounds for perma.
yes, he needs work as a player, and some of us are trying to get him there. let us cook longer. the fact that scriptis(the admin that sybil didn't know it needed) is trying to work with this guy should open up a lot of other admins' eyes.
He says it enough that I figured it was worth noting; it's not a common word that most people use outside of that context.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:46 am I do want to point out that vekter doesn't seem to know what the adjective "devious" means and says "obviously spamming obscure tiktok memes in ic" which is funny?
You can only kick someone in the shins so many times before it becomes obvious that it's not working.
maybe i just say devious an unusual amount and have an inflated idea of its commonnessVekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:21 pmFor the record, I can and have bonked people for treating Reider (among other "known shitters") differently based on prior knowledge. That's just objectively against the rules. Like I said earlier, as far as I'm aware, the last time anyone in the admin team even talked about helping Reider improve as a player was a year ago. If this is his effort over a year, it's not enough. It's not worth sacrificing everyone else's experience for one player in the hopes they'll get better while they say shit like "i am testing new loadout...""MAGBOOT + ADVANCED INSUL" "+ BATON" in-character and spend pretty much every round being a nuisance to everyone around them. I respect you and understand your perspective, but I'd appreciate if you respected mine - this isn't just because he doesn't talk enough, it's because what talking he does is stupid, inane, OOC bullshit that doesn't pass the sniff test and he's a massive pain in the ass to anyone who even remotely inconveniences him IC.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:08 pmthis.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:57 am More thoughts:
People don't want to be around Meza. It's pretty clear why, because everybody thinks they are a 'greytiding shit'. They get pretty much valided, and because of there reputation, it's ok, as it's 'just meza'. This toxic cycle of everything just shitting on Reider whenever they get brought up means they never really have a chance to roleplay. They have never been shown good RP, just collecting bans for not RPing, and I would assume they have tried once, and just got fucking dunked by everybody else.
if you can establish a pattern of NOT TREATING THEM LIKE A FUCKING MONGOLOID every encounter, they will very quickly lighten up
I can't tell you how many times ive observed reider and seen people fucking with him JUST BECAUSE ITS REIDER.
I can't tell you how many times ive witnessed players that should have been banned for metagrudging the guy IC.
the IC spreads to OOC which infests more and more IC
i've watched reider in command roles before and the fucking amount of literal ROVING BANDS OF TIDERS that fuck with him just "because its reider" rivals the amount that would go after dean ivanov, BOTH OF WHOM would ALSO go into departments and steal shit instead of asking for it. dean was ALSO just as mute when it comes to roleplay as Reider (sorry dean i love you)
TLDR-
Reiders banning is a result of a self fulfilling prophecy.
Self-fulfilling prophecy, also known as interpersonal expectancy effect, refers to the phenomenon whereby a person's or a group's expectation for the behavior of another person or group serves actually to bring about the prophesied or expected behavior.
the fact that he doesn't talk enough to make the admins happy should not be grounds for perma.
yes, he needs work as a player, and some of us are trying to get him there. let us cook longer. the fact that scriptis(the admin that sybil didn't know it needed) is trying to work with this guy should open up a lot of other admins' eyes.
He says it enough that I figured it was worth noting; it's not a common word that most people use outside of that context.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:46 am I do want to point out that vekter doesn't seem to know what the adjective "devious" means and says "obviously spamming obscure tiktok memes in ic" which is funny?
You can only kick someone in the shins so many times before it becomes obvious that it's not working.
This is part of an attempt to make the experience on Sybil better overall. It's very clear that things have deteriorated to where newer people think that this is the norm, but it's not. If you are dealing with issues like this on the regular, you need to be reporting them so we can further work towards raising the quality of play to somewhere we're comfortable with. I understand the mentality people have that they don't want to be snitches or don't think it's worth reporting it, but it's better for the server as a whole if we can help bring things back to where they once were.InternJohn wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:50 pm I've had to deal with FAAAAAAAR worse characters than Reider, and I say that as both a tot player and a security player. I've had HoS players that are maliciously and purposefully incompetent, who straight up grief the entire department as a gimmick. I've had HoS players who torture someone for 40 minutes, failing to do their job to live out their weird sadistic RP. And an endless supply of greyshirts who will silently tide you for no reason. So he's an odd one to single out, especially since I've seen him get better.
But it has become the norm, and I don't believe administration is the way to deal with this being the norm. It's not the community's fault that the game plays this way. You are always going to end up with people developing into this kind of player because that's how the game WANTS you to play. I myself have been changed into a wordless killing machine by the simple nature of TGstation's combat. Granted I'm not as far gone as Reider or Axle or some of the others, but it's still what the system does to you.Vekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:10 pm This is part of an attempt to make the experience on Sybil better overall. It's very clear that things have deteriorated to where newer people think that this is the norm, but it's not. If you are dealing with issues like this on the regular, you need to be reporting them so we can further work towards raising the quality of play to somewhere we're comfortable with. I understand the mentality people have that they don't want to be snitches or don't think it's worth reporting it, but it's better for the server as a whole if we can help bring things back to where they once were.
i respect the viewpoint, but i really believe the only people that should be permad from here are the ones that are just downright malicious when it comes to their actionsVekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:21 pmFor the record, I can and have bonked people for treating Reider (among other "known shitters") differently based on prior knowledge. That's just objectively against the rules. Like I said earlier, as far as I'm aware, the last time anyone in the admin team even talked about helping Reider improve as a player was a year ago. If this is his effort over a year, it's not enough. It's not worth sacrificing everyone else's experience for one player in the hopes they'll get better while they say shit like "i am testing new loadout...""MAGBOOT + ADVANCED INSUL" "+ BATON" in-character and spend pretty much every round being a nuisance to everyone around them. I respect you and understand your perspective, but I'd appreciate if you respected mine - this isn't just because he doesn't talk enough, it's because what talking he does is stupid, inane, OOC bullshit that doesn't pass the sniff test and he's a massive pain in the ass to anyone who even remotely inconveniences him IC.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:08 pmthis.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:57 am More thoughts:
People don't want to be around Meza. It's pretty clear why, because everybody thinks they are a 'greytiding shit'. They get pretty much valided, and because of there reputation, it's ok, as it's 'just meza'. This toxic cycle of everything just shitting on Reider whenever they get brought up means they never really have a chance to roleplay. They have never been shown good RP, just collecting bans for not RPing, and I would assume they have tried once, and just got fucking dunked by everybody else.
if you can establish a pattern of NOT TREATING THEM LIKE A FUCKING MONGOLOID every encounter, they will very quickly lighten up
I can't tell you how many times ive observed reider and seen people fucking with him JUST BECAUSE ITS REIDER.
I can't tell you how many times ive witnessed players that should have been banned for metagrudging the guy IC.
the IC spreads to OOC which infests more and more IC
i've watched reider in command roles before and the fucking amount of literal ROVING BANDS OF TIDERS that fuck with him just "because its reider" rivals the amount that would go after dean ivanov, BOTH OF WHOM would ALSO go into departments and steal shit instead of asking for it. dean was ALSO just as mute when it comes to roleplay as Reider (sorry dean i love you)
TLDR-
Reiders banning is a result of a self fulfilling prophecy.
Self-fulfilling prophecy, also known as interpersonal expectancy effect, refers to the phenomenon whereby a person's or a group's expectation for the behavior of another person or group serves actually to bring about the prophesied or expected behavior.
the fact that he doesn't talk enough to make the admins happy should not be grounds for perma.
yes, he needs work as a player, and some of us are trying to get him there. let us cook longer. the fact that scriptis(the admin that sybil didn't know it needed) is trying to work with this guy should open up a lot of other admins' eyes.
Bad players are allowed to improve if they show a pattern and willingness to improve. Reider has been banned 26 times and noted 57 times, 25 of which have been over the last year (since Scriptis started trying to rehabilitate them). There's a point where we have to look at it and decide if Reider is just using our good nature against us.
He says it enough that I figured it was worth noting; it's not a common word that most people use outside of that context.Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:46 am I do want to point out that vekter doesn't seem to know what the adjective "devious" means and says "obviously spamming obscure tiktok memes in ic" which is funny?
You can only kick someone in the shins so many times before it becomes obvious that it's not working.
okay, this is honestly a really good point, especially with summer just around the cornerVekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:10 pmThis is part of an attempt to make the experience on Sybil better overall. It's very clear that things have deteriorated to where newer people think that this is the norm, but it's not. If you are dealing with issues like this on the regular, you need to be reporting them so we can further work towards raising the quality of play to somewhere we're comfortable with. I understand the mentality people have that they don't want to be snitches or don't think it's worth reporting it, but it's better for the server as a whole if we can help bring things back to where they once were.InternJohn wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:50 pm I've had to deal with FAAAAAAAR worse characters than Reider, and I say that as both a tot player and a security player. I've had HoS players that are maliciously and purposefully incompetent, who straight up grief the entire department as a gimmick. I've had HoS players who torture someone for 40 minutes, failing to do their job to live out their weird sadistic RP. And an endless supply of greyshirts who will silently tide you for no reason. So he's an odd one to single out, especially since I've seen him get better.
At what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:23 pm i respect the viewpoint, but i really believe the only people that should be permad from here are the ones that are just downright malicious when it comes to their actions
lol good analogyVekter wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:45 pmAt what point does someone's refusal or failure to improve become malice in and of itself? If you give someone a year to stop shitting on the carpet and they keep doing it but get slightly closer to the bathroom every time and sometimes they get to the toilet before it happens, at what point does it become acceptable to just ask them to go shit in someone else's house?Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:23 pm i respect the viewpoint, but i really believe the only people that should be permad from here are the ones that are just downright malicious when it comes to their actions
Please share these deluded ramblings I’m genuinely interestedsaprasam wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:36 ami wrote an entire paragraph explaining how the lrp culture has caused the degeneration of antag gimmick play styles & how it affects how people play & start conflicts, only to realize it made 0 sense given the context and sounded like deluded ramblingsLacran wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:37 amConflict is important in a round, but that's also why we have antags, if this person solely comes to the game to wordlessly create conflict they are just fabricating conflict so they can line toe self antagging.
He plays LOL so that explains it.Chadley wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:46 pm I like Reider as a person, immensely I'm not too fond of his playstyle, all the choices he makes have turned his character in itself into a kill bait. Grabbing slips and a medkit and doing the do. His development has clearly been an upward trend (from sec that kills valids wordlessly), but from what I've seen of him, even recently, is a trend of stealing shoes, slipping people frequently, and then attacking them if they take his soap or peels and doesn't say a word. It's an extremely hard dynamic to get behind since if you try and fight him about it his Cheshire grin will grow to sizeable proportions and you'll probably get your dick kicked.
I want Maskenary to be part of the community, not Reider.
Reider represents rolling every antag type so you can murderbone every round.
Reider represents over-escalating situations and getting into these constant fights.
Reider represents a frustrating static that is almost synonymous with the tide.
It seems like a lot of people have faith in Maskenary, but the admins have exhausted the chances. Maybe this is a blessing in disguise. Maybe this shows that we should all think about how we play the game and how it affects others.
Maybe the real Reid was the friends we made along the way.
So it goes.
We call that incriminating little bro.
Admins being afraid to take action is not a bad thing and it's weird that you speak as if it is. Those in power should fear the people, not the other way around.nianjiilical wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 4:22 am the fact that people will use this as an excuse to shit on vekter specifically, despite the fact that qc bans like this are something no admin would be confident trying to pull off without knowing they can convince a good amount of headmins/other admins, is a great example of why admins dont always have the balls to actually take action on players a lot of the time
I agree. Reider is just an average Terry assistant. Vekter is out of touch.
Greenshit has entered the chat. Self-antags save security's fun on greenshit rounds.
Absolutely. I was in a round recently where people were cheering in comms upon learning Reider had died, just because it's Reider. Not even Lisa Green gets this much hate.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:08 pm I can't tell you how many times ive observed reider and seen people fucking with him JUST BECAUSE ITS REIDER.
... because he is a victim, both of players undermining his "improvement" and now of admin abuse.iwishforducks wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:19 pm there’s nothing defendable about reider so everyone here has devolved into making reider a victim
Who's the good headmin? Is it Misdoubtful or is it Kieth?
I refuse to interact with the rest of your post because it's stupid, but FYI there's a policy thread already up talking about removing greenshifts for this exact reason.
i deleted the entire paragraph in my realization but i can paraphrase itNoxVS wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 5:23 pmPlease share these deluded ramblings I’m genuinely interestedsaprasam wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 9:36 ami wrote an entire paragraph explaining how the lrp culture has caused the degeneration of antag gimmick play styles & how it affects how people play & start conflicts, only to realize it made 0 sense given the context and sounded like deluded ramblingsLacran wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 6:37 amConflict is important in a round, but that's also why we have antags, if this person solely comes to the game to wordlessly create conflict they are just fabricating conflict so they can line toe self antagging.
while kendrickorium also brings up a good point about how reider, when he isn't constantly being harassed for "being reider" is a generally amiable person to be around, and i have experienced this exact thing by interacting with him.InternJohn wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 3:50 pm Honestly this ban makes no sense to me, he's an efficient player, I'd prefer him over a lot of other people I deal with on Sybil. Getting upset at Reider using terms like "i am testing new loadout...""MAGBOOT + ADVANCED INSUL" "+ BATON" in LRP is mind boggling to me. And yeah, I see people treat Reider badly all the time, to the point to where he had to alias a number of times to catch a break. People treat people badly just because they are good at the game. I see Dean get picked on for also being good at the game. There is this weird stigma when it comes to players who are actually GOOD at combat, and I end up experiencing it myself as well.
The game is brutal and it's coded to be brutal purposefully, the balance is not in favor of sitting there monologuing while 'sticking someone up' for 5 minutes. I myself have died at the hands of Reider valid hunting me once, when I tried to RP. I wanted to do a standoff with security, and Reider wordlessly snuck in behind me, bola'd me, and killed me with a cleaver. That taught me an important lesson more than anything about being more cautious. I was upset with Reider, but now I'm not. It's just part of the game, and that works against people who are good at it.
I watched Reider become better about all these complaints as I've known him and played with him. He WAS getting better, and I think it's entirely unfair that you've just been stalking him with a microscope waiting for him to slip up. I know a LOT of players who would get into trouble if you did that.
the fact that reider was banned for "not interacting in the roleplay game" is absurd to me. many people play in very similar ways, actively avoiding all interaction. there is zero ruling on people being banned for being player-averse.Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 12:08 pmthis.vect0r wrote: ↑Tue May 16, 2023 1:57 am More thoughts:
People don't want to be around Meza. It's pretty clear why, because everybody thinks they are a 'greytiding shit'. They get pretty much valided, and because of there reputation, it's ok, as it's 'just meza'. This toxic cycle of everything just shitting on Reider whenever they get brought up means they never really have a chance to roleplay. They have never been shown good RP, just collecting bans for not RPing, and I would assume they have tried once, and just got fucking dunked by everybody else.
if you can establish a pattern of NOT TREATING THEM LIKE A FUCKING MONGOLOID every encounter, they will very quickly lighten up
I can't tell you how many times ive observed reider and seen people fucking with him JUST BECAUSE ITS REIDER.
I can't tell you how many times ive witnessed players that should have been banned for metagrudging the guy IC.
the IC spreads to OOC which infests more and more IC
i've watched reider in command roles before and the fucking amount of literal ROVING BANDS OF TIDERS that fuck with him just "because its reider" rivals the amount that would go after dean ivanov, BOTH OF WHOM would ALSO go into departments and steal shit instead of asking for it. dean was ALSO just as mute when it comes to roleplay as Reider (sorry dean i love you)
TLDR-
Reiders banning is a result of a self fulfilling prophecy.
Self-fulfilling prophecy, also known as interpersonal expectancy effect, refers to the phenomenon whereby a person's or a group's expectation for the behavior of another person or group serves actually to bring about the prophesied or expected behavior.
the fact that he doesn't talk enough to make the admins happy should not be grounds for perma.
yes, he needs work as a player, and some of us are trying to get him there. let us cook longer. the fact that scriptis(the admin that sybil didn't know it needed) is trying to work with this guy should open up a lot of other admins' eyes.
The problem with this is that I don't care enough about your opinion to bother arguing against it.
You can repeat the lie that I'm wrong over and over as many times as you want and I'll still be right.