/tg/Station 13

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What do we think? tl;dr refusing to respond to a minor threat using your words (ie "silent arrests") voids your metaprotections as sec while doing so cements them.

I think this is pretty good. I'm worried it might slide the game further into a state where "actually fighting people is the point of the game" is a norm but I think it's an efficient way to handle the problem. What better way to disincentivize it?

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:49 am Okay, so what? Why do you NEED to arrest the person who’s wanted for a minor crime (which this policy only applies to) in the most optimal possible way without giving them a chance to respond?

And how exactly does the policy protect them? You can STILL wordlessly arrest them. All it means is that they’re allowed to retaliate normally against you if you choose the wordless approach.

I'm not saying arrests have to be optimal. I'm saying you can't tell some players why they are being arrested cos they flee as soon as they see you.

chocolate_bickie wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 7:43 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:49 am Okay, so what? Why do you NEED to arrest the person who’s wanted for a minor crime (which this policy only applies to) in the most optimal possible way without giving them a chance to respond?

And how exactly does the policy protect them? You can STILL wordlessly arrest them. All it means is that they’re allowed to retaliate normally against you if you choose the wordless approach.

I'm not saying arrests have to be optimal. I'm saying you can't tell some players why they are being arrested cos they flee as soon as they see you.

I think the point is that an attempt is made, and that would satisfy the requirement. Obviously you can't game the system by just running from the officer whenever he sees you.

oranges wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:06 am this rule will be rolled back within 2 terms

you will be rolled back within 1 term come here

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 4:30 am This is 100% the sort of policy that needs to be tested out before launching

I've seen people taking advantage of it already to shove/steal prisoners if they don't hear an arrest reason given. I haven't noticed a difference from before though, same amount except they're now even further justified. I need to get in the habit of telling people I'm arresting them but it's hard because sometimes they're doing actively detrimental shit right in front of me (like stealing prisoners that I fairly arrested/shove spamming me), and other times I point at them to get them to talk and they act like they didn't see me and run off anyway.

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:44 pm

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 4:30 am This is 100% the sort of policy that needs to be tested out before launching

I've seen people taking advantage of it already to shove/steal prisoners if they don't hear an arrest reason given. I haven't noticed a difference from before though, same amount except they're now even further justified. I need to get in the habit of telling people I'm arresting them but it's hard because sometimes they're doing actively detrimental shit right in front of me (like stealing prisoners that I fairly arrested/shove spamming me), and other times I point at them to get them to talk and they act like they didn't see me and run off anyway.

Randomly stealing prisoners from security is already against the rules, ahelp it!!!

kieth4 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:47 pm

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:44 pm I've seen people taking advantage of it already to shove/steal prisoners if they don't hear an arrest reason given. I haven't noticed a difference from before though, same amount except they're now even further justified. I need to get in the habit of telling people I'm arresting them but it's hard because sometimes they're doing actively detrimental shit right in front of me (like stealing prisoners that I fairly arrested/shove spamming me), and other times I point at them to get them to talk and they act like they didn't see me and run off anyway.

Randomly stealing prisoners from security is already against the rules, ahelp it!!!

The whole point is that it used to be against the rules, but no longer is.
"Security gameplay with limited meaningful communication in low threat situations can completely remove security meta-protections, falling back to standard escalation rules instead."
Standard escalation means if someone tries to stun and handcuff a random person, bystanders are allowed to save them.

Not gonna lie I never knew that was against the rules. But interfering in arrests makes them valid IIRC so that makes things super lax for sec.

If someone’s randomly shoving and interfering in the arrest you can just flash them or drop a flashbang or something. Don’t whip out the batong unless you have a super quick draw or you’ll get it taken. If they try again just crit them with a lasergun and continue dragging the arrestee.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:29 am Not gonna lie I never knew that was against the rules. But interfering in arrests makes them valid IIRC so that makes things super lax for sec.

If someone’s randomly shoving and interfering in the arrest you can just flash them or drop a flashbang or something. Don’t whip out the batong unless you have a super quick draw or you’ll get it taken. If they try again just crit them with a lasergun and continue dragging the arrestee.

Feel free to ahelp if random non antag tiders are harassing/stealing batons while officers are doing their job. I have been cracking down on those people when i see them, helps make the server a better place.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:54 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:29 am Not gonna lie I never knew that was against the rules. But interfering in arrests makes them valid IIRC so that makes things super lax for sec.

If someone’s randomly shoving and interfering in the arrest you can just flash them or drop a flashbang or something. Don’t whip out the batong unless you have a super quick draw or you’ll get it taken. If they try again just crit them with a lasergun and continue dragging the arrestee.

Feel free to ahelp if random non antag tiders are harassing/stealing batons while officers are doing their job. I have been cracking down on those people when i see them, helps make the server a better place.

Personally I find it to be healthy conflict, would be boring if I could just drag every arrestee back to brig and process them 1-2-3 free of struggle.

BlueMemesauce wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 11:21 pm

kieth4 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 10:47 pm

BeeSting12 wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:44 pm I've seen people taking advantage of it already to shove/steal prisoners if they don't hear an arrest reason given. I haven't noticed a difference from before though, same amount except they're now even further justified. I need to get in the habit of telling people I'm arresting them but it's hard because sometimes they're doing actively detrimental shit right in front of me (like stealing prisoners that I fairly arrested/shove spamming me), and other times I point at them to get them to talk and they act like they didn't see me and run off anyway.

Randomly stealing prisoners from security is already against the rules, ahelp it!!!

The whole point is that it used to be against the rules, but no longer is.
"Security gameplay with limited meaningful communication in low threat situations can completely remove security meta-protections, falling back to standard escalation rules instead."
Standard escalation means if someone tries to stun and handcuff a random person, bystanders are allowed to save them.

Standard escalation has never meant that you can randomly steal prisoners, I think you have a misunderstanding of the rules.

This, more so hits everyone who is wronged by the seccie as opposed to random people off the station floor- please, ahelp the shit.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 8:28 am

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:54 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:29 am Not gonna lie I never knew that was against the rules. But interfering in arrests makes them valid IIRC so that makes things super lax for sec.

If someone’s randomly shoving and interfering in the arrest you can just flash them or drop a flashbang or something. Don’t whip out the batong unless you have a super quick draw or you’ll get it taken. If they try again just crit them with a lasergun and continue dragging the arrestee.

Feel free to ahelp if random non antag tiders are harassing/stealing batons while officers are doing their job. I have been cracking down on those people when i see them, helps make the server a better place.

Personally I find it to be healthy conflict, would be boring if I could just drag every arrestee back to brig and process them 1-2-3 free of struggle.

sure sometimes it could be interesting on a slow round, but when its every round you need to deal with a tider knocking you down to steal your baton while dealing with undercover nukies or a mass murder hobo it gets unfun for other players who want to play the job.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:19 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 8:28 am

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:54 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 12:29 am Not gonna lie I never knew that was against the rules. But interfering in arrests makes them valid IIRC so that makes things super lax for sec.

If someone’s randomly shoving and interfering in the arrest you can just flash them or drop a flashbang or something. Don’t whip out the batong unless you have a super quick draw or you’ll get it taken. If they try again just crit them with a lasergun and continue dragging the arrestee.

Feel free to ahelp if random non antag tiders are harassing/stealing batons while officers are doing their job. I have been cracking down on those people when i see them, helps make the server a better place.

Personally I find it to be healthy conflict, would be boring if I could just drag every arrestee back to brig and process them 1-2-3 free of struggle.

sure sometimes it could be interesting on a slow round, but when its every round you need to deal with a tider knocking you down to steal your baton while dealing with undercover nukies or a mass murder hobo it gets unfun for other players who want to play the job.

that tracks. it just makes me think of servers like fulp or yog or bee where security’s rounds are given so much protection by admins that all nonantag conflict against them stops and antagonists become 99% of their job content. which is lame both for the antags and the officers

for a good example of this, try out sec on 70pop Terry, then try out sec on Fulp/Bee. youll find them pretty relaxing but mind numbingly boring because there’s simply no one causing issues for sec (they’ve all been banned). sec exist to deal with those issues. on the contrary Terry you may have too many issues but that’s sort of the fun of LRP innit

If tiders want to make conflict then do it when the officer is not trying to deal with a real threat or doing their job like arresting someone? Not against it stopping 100% but its really a killer to have your work stolen from you after a hard fought win.

JusticeGoat wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:40 am If tiders want to make conflict then do it when the officer is not trying to deal with a real threat or doing their job like arresting someone? Not against it stopping 100% but its really a killer to have your work stolen from you after a hard fought win.

it’s incredibly rare for a tider to interfere with sec dealing with an actual threat like cult/ling/nukie etc, simply because they’re validbrained

i think sec can withstand having a B&E arrestee or two dragged away. honestly if they can’t handle that I don’t think LRP is for them, why not play MRP where things are calmer?

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:53 am i think sec can withstand having a B&E arrestee or two dragged away. honestly if they can’t handle that I don’t think LRP is for them, why not play MRP where things are calmer?

"Calmer" lol, Manuel also has a lot of greytiding, not sure where you're getting that misconception from.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:53 am it’s incredibly rare for a tider to interfere with sec dealing with an actual threat like cult/ling/nukie etc, simply because they’re validbrained

Speaking of that, I've had rounds in MRP as sec where non-antag greyshirts actively interfere in the arrest of confirmed traitors.

Fren256 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:02 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:53 am i think sec can withstand having a B&E arrestee or two dragged away. honestly if they can’t handle that I don’t think LRP is for them, why not play MRP where things are calmer?

"Calmer" lol, Manuel also has a lot of greytiding, not sure where you're getting that misconception from.

I suspect we have different definitions of greytiding. I invite you to try Terry sec and then compare it to what you experience on Manuel.

Fren256 wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 1:02 pm

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Sat May 27, 2023 9:53 am it’s incredibly rare for a tider to interfere with sec dealing with an actual threat like cult/ling/nukie etc, simply because they’re validbrained

Speaking of that, I've had rounds in MRP as sec where non-antag greyshirts actively interfere in the arrest of confirmed traitors.

I intentionally didn’t mention tots since tiders sometimes drag them away to loot them for themselves. I suspect the reason on MRP is more of a metagang thing though.

kawoppi wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 8:20 am

oranges wrote: ↑Fri May 26, 2023 12:06 am this rule will be rolled back within 2 terms

you will be rolled back within 1 term come here

you don't scare me with this baking gestapo act