/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=34531&sid=6f2efa785 ... e79eaeb197
I refuse to learn how to do formatting

But lol jeff I can't believe it, you killed someone cuz they were annoying. Good job man, have a good break, will kill ya later for being annoying

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:09 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:09 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:45 am For the record, if the goal is to check the AI’s laws because you think it’s compromised, you don’t “use your words.” Imagine asking a malf AI to let you into its SAT and turn off its turrets.

Using your words only works when the AI is fine to begin with which means you might as well not even card them! Breaking in is the only option that makes sense if you need to check laws cause you distrust them.

I don't think that was the case here, at first. The original concern was that the nuke disk was in the AI room, not that the laws were compromised. Jeff even ordered the AI to open the door and then the AI called him out for deconstructing something only 9 seconds later.

Dax wrote:The AI was understanbly irate because someone just barged into it's satellite, deconstructed walls instead of doing the medium RP thing of using words.

This is what I'm responding to. Deconstructing walls and breaking into the SAT is how you're supposed to check laws if you suspect the AI of being fucky.
Because the alternative is asking it nicely, being let in, and then it turns tasers on and merks you. Has happened dozens and dozens of times.

it's almost like silicon in general fucking suck

Archie700 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:09 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:45 am For the record, if the goal is to check the AI’s laws because you think it’s compromised, you don’t “use your words.” Imagine asking a malf AI to let you into its SAT and turn off its turrets.

Using your words only works when the AI is fine to begin with which means you might as well not even card them! Breaking in is the only option that makes sense if you need to check laws cause you distrust them.

I don't think that was the case here, at first. The original concern was that the nuke disk was in the AI room, not that the laws were compromised. Jeff even ordered the AI to open the door and then the AI called him out for deconstructing something only 9 seconds later.

I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The disk is a very time sensitive thing, and if the AI hasn't answered in a few seconds for something of that importance, do and then apologize after.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Wed Jul 26, 2023 1:13 pm wordless sec trying to win the game at all costs is insufferable. we're not playing counterstrike. even when an antag is caught, they should get RP out of it with the ensuing processing with sec. this "valid secured: victory achieved" mindset is not only detrimental to the round but ultimately pointless in the grand scheme of things. slow down and enjoy the ride a little more.

Manuelsec is *so bad* about this that I have a self-imposed rule to just not roleplay with security and SSD if arrested (whether I'm an antag or not). I can only go through "Get taken to the brig without a word and then get ignored for five minutes trying to talk to the arresting officer while they talk to the warden, silently set an egregiously unnecessary timer and then walk away" so many times and I hit that limit a long time ago.

Ever since I started doing that my enjoyment of SS13 has improved considerably to the point that I expanded the rule to just not roleplay with security at all. My enjoyment of rounds has improved even more since doing that as well.

Manuelsec badly needs some kind of culture change in security and possibly even an additional RP rule along the lines of "Let 'em cook" when interacting with other players. In order to not get silently batoned (and often RRed) while you're doing a gimmick as an antag at the moment you have to super dramatically telegraph that you're non-hostile, which is a problem that runs up against the recent change to RP rule 6. It pretty badly undermines the tension and fun of the scenario.

If antags were given more opportunities to cook and roleplay then I'd actually cook and roleplay more as an antag.

BrolyButterfingers wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 7:21 am Manuelsec badly needs some kind of culture change in security and possibly even an additional RP rule along the lines of "Let 'em cook" when interacting with other players. In order to not get silently batoned (and often RRed) while you're doing a gimmick as an antag at the moment you have to super dramatically telegraph that you're non-hostile, which is a problem that runs up against the recent change to RP rule 6. It pretty badly undermines the tension and fun of the scenario.

I love shitting on Manuel but my personal experience with Manuel sec is only a small, yet very visible portion are the wordless stunners, but they're easily identifiable as they're either an HoS player (rip jeff) or a warden out of brig with a shotgun with no real reason (bonus points if a plasmaman?) Otherwise usually I have sec point at me to get my attention and talk to me before going stun baton mode. I've even had one cute interaction where an officer was chasing me down from the inside of the station while I, a ninja, was on the outside and instead of spamming disablers at me we were exchanging goofy emotes at each other. Mind you, we had a window between us, but the communication was still there. On Terry/Sybil, most officers would go straight for wordless disabler spam and then leap out into space to maul me to death.

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 4:09 am

Archie700 wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 3:09 am

sinfulbliss wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 2:45 am For the record, if the goal is to check the AI’s laws because you think it’s compromised, you don’t “use your words.” Imagine asking a malf AI to let you into its SAT and turn off its turrets.

Using your words only works when the AI is fine to begin with which means you might as well not even card them! Breaking in is the only option that makes sense if you need to check laws cause you distrust them.

I don't think that was the case here, at first. The original concern was that the nuke disk was in the AI room, not that the laws were compromised. Jeff even ordered the AI to open the door and then the AI called him out for deconstructing something only 9 seconds later.

Dax wrote:The AI was understanbly irate because someone just barged into it's satellite, deconstructed walls instead of doing the medium RP thing of using words.

This is what I'm responding to. Deconstructing walls and breaking into the SAT is how you're supposed to check laws if you suspect the AI of being fucky.
Because the alternative is asking it nicely, being let in, and then it turns tasers on and merks you. Has happened dozens and dozens of times.

They only 'suspected' the AI while they were already deconned doors in the satellite.
His whole interpretation of AI might be rogue pretty much started during the "knowledge check". The AI does go a little off their laws depending how you interpret law 3 and 4 while the HOS is already fucking up the inner chamber.

Also this is manuel, some RP is expected.
Jeff's history indicates he just prefers to get an excuse to click on spacemen till they go horizontal, LRP is probably more suited for low roleplay standards.

If you threaten to kill the entire sec team without a great law reason as ai while actively provoking the guys breaking into your chamber because you're acting like a crazed rogue/subverted ai instead of your own lawset, I think they should be allowed to wipe you when they card you and find out that you were a shithead instead of rogue, honestly.

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:06 pm Jeff's history indicates he just prefers to get an excuse to click on spacemen till they go horizontal, LRP is probably more suited for low roleplay standards.

It's funny you say this when I distinctly remember a time you, as Captain, responded to a non-actionable threat by firing at me through the bridge doors, then sprinting out of the bridge to chase me down through the halls, drag me AWAY from the SecOff who was trying to cuff me, execute me in your office, decapitate me, headcarve, and try to forceborg, while having a fucking QSI already set in a Sec Locker long ago.

You of all people have no fucking room to talk about wanting to turn people horizontal.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 4:53 am

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Thu Jul 27, 2023 5:06 pm Jeff's history indicates he just prefers to get an excuse to click on spacemen till they go horizontal, LRP is probably more suited for low roleplay standards.

It's funny you say this when I distinctly remember a time you, as Captain, responded to a non-actionable threat by firing at me through the bridge doors, then sprinting out of the bridge to chase me down through the halls, drag me AWAY from the SecOff who was trying to cuff me, execute me in your office, decapitate me, headcarve, and try to forceborg, while having a fucking QSI already set in a Sec Locker long ago.

You of all people have no fucking room to talk about wanting to turn people horizontal.

Considering I've been around since 2013, it is very likely I've fucked up before. I don't recall the situation so I'll take you at your word. Not sure what QSI means either.
My apologies if I negatively affected your round due to bad behavior on my part in the past. This probably happened right before my work related burnout where my playstyle was rather aggressive, not an excuse of course, but I recognized that, realized I was not being a good player and tried my best to change that. I picked less stressful jobs, I set reminders to take a breath and did a bunch of other stuff related to dealing with stress.

That's kinda my point as well, people can change but they need to step back from things that aggravate the problem. Learn to enjoy the rest of the game again, make growth serum melons, heal people as a doctor, crank the SM to max as an engineer with a custom mix. I feel like bad security play usually starts later in the round with a lot of stressful elements happening first causing you to not think clearly.

That said, my last note is from August 22 for brigging a mime we just caught up to and went ssd for 15 minutes just before.

2019 I have a few terry notes, including one for shoving people but the note says it's an ic issue so I'm not sure why that even is a note. Also one role ban for fucking up as an AI for 3 days.

2018 I got a minute ban for voring citrus.
I also banned myself twice because of ick ock because I messed up with hotkeys. I rebinded them.

There's a difference between fucking up once or twice long ago to having a bunch of recent notes specifically about terrible security behavior.

If you are part of a situation that breaks the rules, please ahelp. If the situation was as you described then I would've been noted or banned at least on manuel if you had ahelped.

personally i think that i and only i should be able to kill people for being annoying

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:20 pm [snip]

For what it's worth, I did ahelp it. But I was told that it was perfectly fine, even though everyone who saw it went down was against it. I personally always just chalked it down to "Admins don't want to Note other Admins" and held a bit of resentment about it.

I remember at the time, looking at your feedback thread and seeing a lot of "has a tendency to always think that's in the right and refuse to try to understand anyone else, snarky and rude with a tendency to speedlock/resolve things to get the last word" which kinda just verified my opinion at the time.

I won't say one way or another whether I was right or not, it's hard to really know for sure. But that's just kinda the vibe I had at the time. How you are now, though, is extremely different to everything I remember from that thread.

So I'd like to apologize, too, then. I held the past against you, while you acknowledged your mistakes and are trying to do better. That was wrong of me.

CMDR_Gungnir wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 6:42 pm

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Fri Jul 28, 2023 2:20 pm [snip]

For what it's worth, I did ahelp it. But I was told that it was perfectly fine, even though everyone who saw it went down was against it. I personally always just chalked it down to "Admins don't want to Note other Admins" and held a bit of resentment about it.

I remember at the time, looking at your feedback thread and seeing a lot of "has a tendency to always think that's in the right and refuse to try to understand anyone else, snarky and rude with a tendency to speedlock/resolve things to get the last word" which kinda just verified my opinion at the time.

I won't say one way or another whether I was right or not, it's hard to really know for sure. But that's just kinda the vibe I had at the time. How you are now, though, is extremely different to everything I remember from that thread.

So I'd like to apologize, too, then. I held the past against you, while you acknowledged your mistakes and are trying to do better. That was wrong of me.

It's all good, in the end we're all imperfect people playing an imperfect game with imperfect information. As long we try and learn from our past mistakes it's all good ya know.
After all we did keep giving 2beard chances hahahahaha

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Sat Jul 29, 2023 4:12 pm After all we did keep giving 2beard chances hahahahaha

Give him another one, he'll ruin it but it'll be funny.