/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

kieth4 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 12:56 am Manuel refugees coming to terry to experience high threat... I will protect you (I am a hos main) don't be afraid

conrad wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 3:03 pm This idea feels like a very milquetoast compromise 'cos neither server's playerbase is gonna like the change and the only people hip thrusting into air at the moment are people that play on LRP that assume the MRP ruleset is gettting nuked with no change to the their favourite ruleset...even though TBM said that the floor for current expected gameplay will be raised.

You can lower threat on Manuel and Campbell without nuking the ruleset.

I also partially agree with RedBaronFlyer. Partially 'cos people don't become admins to ban people as a primary goal (at least they shouldn't). They become admins to have fun with DMing tools, have a level of authority when discussing policy they think will be good and help maintain or improve the quality of the server (which is where banning people comes in).

The Manuel playerbase has a tendency to be incredibly anal when they get so much as bwoinked for anything, and until very recently the support that burnt out admins got when they didn't wanna comb through an essaypost was "The Admin Team doesn't like to read ban appeals."

E: I should just post this entire thing (trimmed for the important bits) on the policy thread.

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

Having a good sec team to stop a player from tiding ain't going to work.
They will do it again next round because it was fun. It ain't fun for players like me. With a more LRP ruleset I can't stop them with an ahelp either, I think??

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:46 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

Having a good sec team to stop a player from tiding ain't going to work.
They will do it again next round because it was fun. It ain't fun for players like me. With a more LRP ruleset I can't stop them with an ahelp either, I think??

Greytiding or grief fnr is ahelpable, and you have extra departmental rights to kick them out without them being able to say kill you.

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:29 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:46 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

Having a good sec team to stop a player from tiding ain't going to work.
They will do it again next round because it was fun. It ain't fun for players like me. With a more LRP ruleset I can't stop them with an ahelp either, I think??

Greytiding or grief fnr is ahelpable, and you have extra departmental rights to kick them out without them being able to say kill you.

Didn't the recent escalation policy change remove "You can beat people up and kick them out and they cant fight back"?

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:31 pm

Not-Dorsidarf wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:29 pm

TheRex9001 wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:46 am

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:17 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:06 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Nothing really, but both those issues can be alleviated with a good security team.

Having a good sec team to stop a player from tiding ain't going to work.
They will do it again next round because it was fun. It ain't fun for players like me. With a more LRP ruleset I can't stop them with an ahelp either, I think??

Greytiding or grief fnr is ahelpable, and you have extra departmental rights to kick them out without them being able to say kill you.

Didn't the recent escalation policy change remove "You can beat people up and kick them out and they cant fight back"?

Its still in the rule 1 precedents section
"You may defend your workplace from trespassers who damage or steal property within that space with significantly greater force than elsewhere. If someone is severely disruptive and returns after ejected, this opens them up to "fun" of the creative workplace death variety."

Capsandi wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 3:42 pm Uh oh, already off the first page and still no actual argument against this proposal. Seeing an abnormal amount of empty posting.

Capsandi wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:45 pm Holy shit this is what ive been telling you people to do for years(in my head also everyone thinks im central to the continued existence of the tg server project not to be confused with TGS server project or the /tg/station code project in my head. I am able to contain all of this because of my HUGE FUCKING BRAIN).

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:56 pm

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:53 pm *snicker snack*

You should play a few rounds of Sybil. Murderboning, just from the progtot changes alone really isn't much of a thing anymore, and when it does happen its usually later into the shift.

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Chadley wrote: ↑Wed Nov 01, 2023 8:49 pm

NoxVS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 11:01 pm

Indie-ana Jones wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:56 pm

Constellado wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:53 pm *snicker snack*

You should play a few rounds of Sybil. Murderboning, just from the progtot changes alone really isn't much of a thing anymore, and when it does happen its usually later into the shift.

How does it handle greytiding and powergaming?

Counter-tiding and more advanced powergaming.

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:52 am

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

And what does this mean to you, what sticks from MRP? What sticks from LRP?

• Toss out LRP and MRP names as they have baggage attached to them and use a neutral term.

• Get rid of most of the anti-murderboning rules as they limit creativity

• Shorter more frequent bans for breaking powergaming rules to get the point across to the bottom 5% with the thickest skulls

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:06 pm

Cheshify wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:52 am

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

And what does this mean to you, what sticks from MRP? What sticks from LRP?

Poggers discussion

Nabski wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:15 pm Appeals Section Going Wild

Critawakets wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 2:03 am man the "LRP is gonna win this" crowd ain't gonna be happy when they find out which rp level the codebase is built against

Fikou wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 12:07 pm what did he mean by this

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:53 pm

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

What in the world is between LRP and MRP

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:08 pm

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:53 pm

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

What in the world is between LRP and MRP

peak ss13

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 10:00 pm

NecromancerAnne wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:29 pm

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 9:08 pm

mrmelbert wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 8:53 pm

mindstormy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 02, 2023 1:29 am I have always said Manuel shouldn't exist. Slightly above LRP and slightly below MRP is the sweet spot.

What in the world is between LRP and MRP

peak ss13

The Promised Land. Spoken of only in myth and legend. Some far flung realm in which the game was better than it is now.

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:49 pm Why do people always bring up NRP, LRP, MRP, HRP, etc. None of it means anything: its uselessly loaded buzzword garbage until TG takes the time to universally define these things for the community and then adhere to said definitions. Which hasn't happened.

The term MRP was stricken from the rules for a reason (The only place any of it exists are some uh oh'd tiny sections of the wiki and a Discord channel that has not been renamed. It could very realistically be removed from both and it would have zero repercussions to do so.) -- it tilts everything into some undefined arbitrary means of measure. Pointless substance-less trash.

I don't start GMing an RPG for a group and say, "Okay everyone this is going to be a heavy roleplaying campaign.". Then refuse to elaborate and make people figure it out on their own. Stupid. Define RP expectations between the two environments or don't, but the labels are bullshit. Immersion expectations, levels of seriousness, balance with gameplay elements, etc. Anything BUT the funny labels.

Those labels were a mistake from the get go.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:48 pm

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:49 pm Why do people always bring up NRP, LRP, MRP, HRP, etc. None of it means anything: its uselessly loaded buzzword garbage until TG takes the time to universally define these things for the community and then adhere to said definitions. Which hasn't happened.

The term MRP was stricken from the rules for a reason (The only place any of it exists are some uh oh'd tiny sections of the wiki and a Discord channel that has not been renamed. It could very realistically be removed from both and it would have zero repercussions to do so.) -- it tilts everything into some undefined arbitrary means of measure. Pointless substance-less trash.

I don't start GMing an RPG for a group and say, "Okay everyone this is going to be a heavy roleplaying campaign.". Then refuse to elaborate and make people figure it out on their own. Stupid. Define RP expectations between the two environments or don't, but the labels are bullshit. Immersion expectations, levels of seriousness, balance with gameplay elements, etc. Anything BUT the funny labels.

Those labels were a mistake from the get go.

It's actually quite clear and obvious. NRP is no roleplay. There is no requirement to play a character. LRP is light roleplay. You are expected to play a character within reason, and should attempt to base your actions on what your character would perceive. HRP is heavy roleplay. You are expected to play a realistic character and take it very seriously. The key difference between LRP and HRP is the RP mindset. In LRP you play a character for the fun of it, and in HRP you aim to roleplay as realistic as possible in the setting.

MRP is fake and means nothing. LRP and HRP aren't part of a gradient and can't be interpolated, but rather a different mindset and take on RP.

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:30 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:48 pm

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:49 pm Why do people always bring up NRP, LRP, MRP, HRP, etc. None of it means anything: its uselessly loaded buzzword garbage until TG takes the time to universally define these things for the community and then adhere to said definitions. Which hasn't happened.

The term MRP was stricken from the rules for a reason (The only place any of it exists are some uh oh'd tiny sections of the wiki and a Discord channel that has not been renamed. It could very realistically be removed from both and it would have zero repercussions to do so.) -- it tilts everything into some undefined arbitrary means of measure. Pointless substance-less trash.

I don't start GMing an RPG for a group and say, "Okay everyone this is going to be a heavy roleplaying campaign.". Then refuse to elaborate and make people figure it out on their own. Stupid. Define RP expectations between the two environments or don't, but the labels are bullshit. Immersion expectations, levels of seriousness, balance with gameplay elements, etc. Anything BUT the funny labels.

Those labels were a mistake from the get go.

It's actually quite clear and obvious. NRP is no roleplay. There is no requirement to play a character. LRP is light roleplay. You are expected to play a character within reason, and should attempt to base your actions on what your character would perceive. HRP is heavy roleplay. You are expected to play a realistic character and take it very seriously. The key difference between LRP and HRP is the RP mindset. In LRP you play a character for the fun of it, and in HRP you aim to roleplay as realistic as possible in the setting.

MRP is fake and means nothing. LRP and HRP aren't part of a gradient and can't be interpolated, but rather a different mindset and take on RP.

What are you on about?

LRP means play as a character and not yourself. HRP means you have to write out detailed emotive expressions.

Or no wait.

LRP means you don't have to take things super seriously but in HRP you have to have high quality interactions with others.

Nope wait that wasn't it either...

In LRP you can know about mechanics that haven't been experienced in character but in HRP everything is canon whether you like it or not.

I still didn't get it right...

In LRP you don't have to roleplay at all but in HRP you have to stay in character all the time.

Damn I still didn't get it right.

In LRP you can focus on gameplay but in HRP you have to make sure everything is immersive.

Not right either?

In LRP you can know how to do everything but in HRP you have to know all of the games lore in order to be on the server.

Or was it that LRP lets you bring in out of game references and in HRP everything is dialogue driven?

It would have sucked to have actually had to sit down and lay things out based on aspects of roleplay instead of just using those labels where everyone knows and agrees on what they mean. Silly me.

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:49 am

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 1:30 am

Turbonerd wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 9:48 pm

Misdoubtful wrote: ↑Sun Nov 05, 2023 5:49 pm c

b

a

What are you on about?

RP labels are the mindset the server is in. The "x allowed?" are server specific rules and aren't really relevant for defining the labels.

Dax Dupont wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2023 8:53 pm The RP rules make it way more relaxing to play without getting ganked.