/tg/Station 13

Bottom post of the previous page:

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=35349

I'm unsure how to feel about unconsensual catification.

admins only bring silicons into the argument for these scenarios because they have absolutely nothing left to grasp at but the vague don't be a dick rule, which gets them (rightfully) ridiculed when they use it so liberally. it's not that it's actually the problem that they think it is but it's an easy cop out. historically when a person goes around non-humanning people the AI, rather than targeting the non-human, focuses on detaining the dude going around non-humanning folks since "humans being non-humanned can lead to someone who is now a human being harmed later"

also what the fuck is this example? a guy gets surgery in plain sight and is given cat ears. he can easily explain to the AI that he's actually human because he's not meowing and doesn't have a tail and was just given ears by forced. or even to check his medical records assuming the CMO didn't alter them. or to check his crew manifest photo which the cmo can't touch. or ask other people to confirm. the admins aren't arguing in good faith here in the slightest

dirk_mcblade wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:31 am What if instead they removed felinids ears and tails. That's am Asimov buff.

i know this is a joke but taking the tail of a species that normally has one gives a permanent mood debuff (and giving someone a tail when they normally wouldn't have one) and so purely wouldn't be an aesthetic change. but funny enough the code doesn't check for a specific species tail so if someone steals your tail as a felind and destroys it, you somehow get a lizard tail, it'll remove the debuff all the same

TypicalRig wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:11 pm admins only bring silicons into the argument for these scenarios because they have absolutely nothing left to grasp at but the vague don't be a dick rule, which gets them (rightfully) ridiculed when they use it so liberally. it's not that it's actually the problem that they think it is but it's an easy cop out. historically when a person goes around non-humanning people the AI, rather than targeting the non-human, focuses on detaining the dude going around non-humanning folks since "humans being non-humanned can lead to someone who is now a human being harmed later"

also what the fuck is this example? a guy gets surgery in plain sight and is given cat ears. he can easily explain to the AI that he's actually human because he's not meowing and doesn't have a tail and was just given ears by forced. or even to check his medical records assuming the CMO didn't alter them. or to check his crew manifest photo which the cmo can't touch. or ask other people to confirm. the admins aren't arguing in good faith here in the slightest

So am I allowed to remove cat ears from you because I thought it would be funny?

it's ass behaviour cus it's a non-antag CMO at the time. non-antag heads shouldn't rly be mutilating people as a meme. if they had an IC reason i would understand a lot more. putting cat ears on someone is pretty low harm when you consider all the possible things they could have done but really where do you draw the line when it's someone who's both a head and a non-antagonist

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:28 pm it's ass behaviour cus it's a non-antag CMO at the time. non-antag heads shouldn't rly be mutilating people as a meme. if they had an IC reason i would understand a lot more. putting cat ears on someone is pretty low harm when you consider all the possible things they could have done but really where do you draw the line when it's someone who's both a head and a non-antagonist

Agreed with this take.

They shouldn't be mutilating or giving medically unnecessary body modifications as non-antag without permission or other IC reasoning.

i think its an ic issue if it doesnt cross into the "i do this every round because im funny" realm

Archie700 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:18 pm So am I allowed to remove cat ears from you because I thought it would be funny?

If you replace them with another type of ears so there is no mechanical drawback, then yes, you have just learned how IC issues work. If you just leave me earless and deaf for no reason, no. But you'd be entitled to an ass beating ICly for it without being able to escalate yourself.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:28 pm non-antag heads shouldn't rly be mutilating people as a meme.

Also a good take. Heads, sec, and silicons, roles that have higher metaprotections and responsibilities shouldn't be doing this kind of stuff since people tend to trust them more and if a person tries to take revenge they'll probably get beat up by others in the process even if their actions were justified. Maybe the note should be altered to emphasize not to do it as a head, rather than a focus on the action its self.

On further thought "Everyone who dies will be brought back as a felinid this shift" does feel more like the sort of thing a captain might be able to declare with the CMO's help, using that old "Yes you can run an obnoxious station gimmick occasionally if you accept the consequences of it inevitably going wrong" dispensation they get. Feels above the level of thing a head should be doing without captain's endorsement though.

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:24 am Yeah Vekter but what about throwing a pie at someone, huh? That alters their sprite until they wash their face. Should I be banned for throwing a pie?

I could've swore I remember an appeal where someone got banned / noted for throwing a pie at someone, I can't remember though...

Fikou wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:50 pm i think its an ic issue if it doesnt cross into the "i do this every round because im funny" realm

Thats what Im leaning to, especially since its Terry. Being a cat eared person would make you face more challenges in round, however I dont see how that goes above other usual Terry Non-Antag trolling. Being the CMO kinda doesnt even hurt, they DID treat the patients otherwise lol.

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:52 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:24 am Yeah Vekter but what about throwing a pie at someone, huh? That alters their sprite until they wash their face. Should I be banned for throwing a pie?

I could've swore I remember an appeal where someone got banned / noted for throwing a pie at someone, I can't remember though...

Found it: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32962

ive lost faith in our admin team

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:45 pm ive lost faith in our admin team

If's fine friend I still have faith in you.

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 5:35 pm

BonChoi wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 4:52 pm

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 3:24 am Yeah Vekter but what about throwing a pie at someone, huh? That alters their sprite until they wash their face. Should I be banned for throwing a pie?

I could've swore I remember an appeal where someone got banned / noted for throwing a pie at someone, I can't remember though...

Found it: viewtopic.php?f=34&t=32962

That was about metagrudging, the pie was just the final straw

Notes are punishment. We just punished someone for an harmless gimmick. The west has fallen.

Horrible horrible note by TBM. This is unironic. I'm seriously bothered by this.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:01 am
2) No, because if they are revived with the cat ears on they lose silicon protections under Asimov (Silicons can identify non-humans based on species traits, like wings, tails, and cat ears).[/spoiler]

Actually racial identity is decided from health analyzers to be sure, a simple extra trait or limb isn't gonna stop a sane ai/borgs from respecting you if you make it verbally clear you are still human and ask for the health analyzer test.


Also a clown or mime mass turning people into lizards and getting lynched is literally the occasional norm for sybil/terry.

Asimov protection isn't a god given right either, its simply what the lawset sometimes is at the start of the round, nonhumans are perfectly capable of turning the word human into lizard or moth or felinid without getting bwoinked because they have every ic reason to try to flip the script once in a while and that is a lot more than just making one person's pixels look nonhuman shaped.

conrad wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 7:13 pm

EmpressMaia wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 6:45 pm ive lost faith in our admin team

If's fine friend I still have faith in you.

<3

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:35 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:01 am
2) No, because if they are revived with the cat ears on they lose silicon protections under Asimov (Silicons can identify non-humans based on species traits, like wings, tails, and cat ears).[/spoiler]

Actually racial identity is decided from health analyzers to be sure, a simple extra trait or limb isn't gonna stop a sane ai/borgs from respecting you if you make it verbally clear you are still human and ask for the health analyzer test.

The AI has no way of using a health analyzer on someone without a shell, and even if they did, expecting them to do so every time they need to make a snap decision about someone causing harm would be unreasonable.

You (and TypicalRig, of course) are also missing the fact that this isn't the only reason this behavior is against the rules, it's just a mechanical reason for it. It's also just a shitty thing to do to someone else's character. I'm seeing most people who don't understand this concept resting firmly along the "RP is stupid and I don't participate" line, so it's not really a surprise that they don't understand that someone's character is something that matters to them in most cases, but we'll get there together, I believe in us.

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:00 pm

MooCow12 wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 8:35 pm

Vekter wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 2:01 am
2) No, because if they are revived with the cat ears on they lose silicon protections under Asimov (Silicons can identify non-humans based on species traits, like wings, tails, and cat ears).[/spoiler]

Actually racial identity is decided from health analyzers to be sure, a simple extra trait or limb isn't gonna stop a sane ai/borgs from respecting you if you make it verbally clear you are still human and ask for the health analyzer test.

The AI has no way of using a health analyzer on someone without a shell, and even if they did, expecting them to do so every time they need to make a snap decision about someone causing harm would be unreasonable.

You (and TypicalRig, of course) are also missing the fact that this isn't the only reason this behavior is against the rules, it's just a mechanical reason for it. It's also just a shitty thing to do to someone else's character. I'm seeing most people who don't understand this concept resting firmly along the "RP is stupid and I don't participate" line, so it's not really a surprise that they don't understand that someone's character is something that matters to them in most cases, but we'll get there together, I believe in us.

You also have sec records that state someone's spawning race. If you explain to the ai you were surgical given cat ears they can just check sec records to confirm you are telling the truth or send one of their mediborgs to scan them.

Also I think minor griefing is fine because it allows players to conflict without one side being able to nuke your ass for no reason as long as it isn't done all the time.

Also as a lrp player

WE

WANT

BLOOD

Also currently I feel like it takes way too long to roll fucking antag. So I don't really blame people acting out their minor gimmicks without the pass. Like for real you can play a reasonable few hours of ss13 everyday for a week and you won't roll antag.

shit note

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:39 pm You also have sec records that state someone's spawning race. If you explain to the ai you were surgical given cat ears they can just check sec records to confirm you are telling the truth or send one of their mediborgs to scan them.

Also I think minor griefing is fine because it allows players to conflict without one side being able to nuke your ass for no reason as long as it isn't done all the time.

It's going to take a single incident of someone who's a human but has been forcibly cat-eared trying to kill someone who's visibly a human and a cyborg killing them for people to start freaking out about how the AI fucked up and killed a human.

Also you can have conflict without needing to grief people, it happens all the fucking time.

Shellton(Mario) wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 10:45 pm Also currently I feel like it takes way too long to roll fucking antag. So I don't really blame people acting out their minor gimmicks without the pass. Like for real you can play a reasonable few hours of ss13 everyday for a week and you won't roll antag.

The point of the game isn't to play antag then fuck around for how many ever rounds it takes to roll it again. This is one of the reasons we punish people who antag roll.

Was the player even bwoinked??

if someone is actively putting car ears on people frequently with the explicit intent to grief/metagrudge someone who hates it maybe thatd be a rule 1 issue but i have a hard time seeing this as something that needs admin intervention unless it's happening constantly

im definitely not a very rp minded person but in a game with beard viruses and bioscrambler anomalies and hundreds of horrible ways to die theres some base level expectation that your character isn't sacred, hash it out ic unless you have reason to think theres more to it than just silly prank (and by hash it out i mean beat the absolute shit out of the doctor this is a great example of good ic conflict starter, and hell a good way to rp your character reacting to getting cat eared)

for a game that's so centered around letting things play out so fun can form naturally, we sure have been seeing a lot of the exact opposite. TBM (and some of the other posters in this thread) really needs to realize that you can do shit to other people, even things that could be considered mean, without 'being a dick'.

it's pretty simple, folks: sometimes, the joke is just on you and that's fine. the mentality of 'anyone who impedes on the personal distaste of another in any way is a dick' is so overwhelmingly stuffy and suffocating it's simply not feasible long term in a game that survives solely on social interaction with others. yes, sometimes bad things will happen to you in this game. that's why everything resets when the round ends. rule 1 is meant so that as a collective we can all have fun, not to safeguard your feelings. if something is "negatively impacting your round" solely because you can't take a joke (even a bad one!), your only option really should be to just grow up.

should we start ahelping everyone who throws jersey shores at people?
should we start ahelping everyone who releases a virus, and doesn't tell us what it does?
should we start ahelping everyone who gets a sticky taped item stuck to our hands?
should we start ahelping everyone who injects space drugs or skewium into the cafeteria food?
should we start ahelping everyone who shoots you with that circuit gun that makes you look all wobbly?
should we start ahelping everyone who makes cyanide pills labeled "fun healing drug"?

if your answer to any of these questions is yes, consider the concept that you might just be such an NRP shitter that you're completely incapable of grasping the idea of coming up with creative, fun ways of approaching a conflict. in my eyes, you're the digital equivalent of a fat kid who cries on the playground because he's too slow to catch anyone in a game of tag. just because something has happened that throws a wrench in the plans for your round, and you now might need to spend some kind of time dealing with the issue does not entitle you for an admin to fix your boo-boo.

conflict is the heart of ss13. if we continue to neuter it, we will be losing the main draw of why we play here in this first place. if you just want to do your job unimpeded by anyone, go play skyrat.

dendydoom wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 1:28 pm it's ass behaviour cus it's a non-antag CMO at the time. non-antag heads shouldn't rly be mutilating people as a meme. if they had an IC reason i would understand a lot more. putting cat ears on someone is pretty low harm when you consider all the possible things they could have done but really where do you draw the line when it's someone who's both a head and a non-antagonist

agreed

head cmo should be the one smacking doctors around for doing this not admins.


also ffs bible its a game

page two in like 5 hours??

how exciting...

i would not care if this was some random bozo goofing around and putting cat ears on people in their maint surgery but imo a non-antagonist CMO shouldn't really be doing this to random people for no reason.

the "for no reason" is the crux of these situations when i'm looking at them. "i gave gary ears because earlier he did x to my friend" or "my character hates emily because of y so i put some ears on her when she was under" i would not give a shit, totally IC. "i did it because i felt like it" is a reason that would work for antagonists and assistant hobos off the street who crawled into your surgery room through an open window, but not for the dude running the entire medical department. "everyone who dies is being turned into a cat today." okay, why? "command have greenlit a secret project to study the effects of felines in space." good enough for me. if you manage to bring this idea into the IC realm and communicate it to command/the captain so they can get involved and it becomes some kind of plot then this is the sort of shit i'm handing out positive notes for. it is excellent. to me, it's better than coded antags. it's pure ambrosia. it's the "rp paper trail" that keeps getting brought up that validates your ideas and makes them real in the IC space.

i don't care about people's statics or feelings or that their round is sacred. i don't expect a novel of build-up or for people to have to be nice to each other ICly to be baked into the rules. i oppose these things if they come up. if your conflict has no meaning, then what you have is a contrived annoyance, not a story. is killing people when they're annoying for its own sake and then moving on the best we can hope for here?

what i care about is people taking 5 seconds to come up with a reason for their conflict (in the case that they are creating it and not reacting to it) so that literally any surviving delusions left of this game being about storytelling are maintained.

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 2:47 am page two in like 5 hours??

how exciting...

I need a title ranking.

Pepper wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 2:07 am should we start ahelping everyone who makes cyanide pills labeled "fun healing drug"?

Im fairly certain its been policy you cant do this for at least a year now

The "nut" in title meme is postmodernist drivel only popularized to ignore the fact that over half of peanut threads in 2023 should exist and most of those threads contain a significant amount of emptyposts
title 3/10

realistically I dont think they did anything wrong, if this was sybil that is.

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:40 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:35 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:35 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:34 am why was this note as a punishment for an IC issue?

this note wasn't a punishment, it was just a record of a line toe

if notes aren't punishments then why do people get banned for having them down the line??

because they set tracks for establishing behavior that may end up being punished with repetition, as seen here.

cope, buddy. notes are absolutely punishment and youre delusional if you don't think that.

Constellado wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 6:47 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:40 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:39 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:35 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:35 am

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Fri Nov 24, 2023 12:34 am why was this note as a punishment for an IC issue?

this note wasn't a punishment, it was just a record of a line toe

if notes aren't punishments then why do people get banned for having them down the line??

because they set tracks for establishing behavior that may end up being punished with repetition, as seen here.

cope, buddy. notes are absolutely punishment and youre delusional if you don't think that.

Sleepy TBM posts one thing - immediately contradicts it! Brain scan now! MANY SUCH CASES! SAD!

speedran the note argument for the 200th time

Striders13 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:07 am speedran the note argument for the 200th time

what 1 evening in bus does to a mf

how embarrassing

TheBibleMelts wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 7:01 amCensored

HES GEX POSTING KILL HIM

The end all be all road of the notes are punishment argument is that it doesn't matter.

"Notes are punishment, notes aren't punishment" assume the server collectively agrees through some sort of cordyceps brain slug mind control 1984 doublethink on either side of the argument.

It means fucking nothing lol

Spend energy on things that aren't pointless.

Honestly I see it all as IC issue the more I think about it. I think the CMO should basically be opened up for being murdered by the victim or demoted by the captain. I think noting people over this is peak server nanny state.
I think an outcome where a mob of forced felinids murders the CMO is a pretty funny round and the game is made more boring by punishing people for playing a gimmick with their job.

Honestly this is just fight baiting, there's no real reason to attach cat ears to people who came in to get healed except to piss off people to beat you up or get demoted.
And if you go and ahelp or try to retaliate you'll get punished anyway

conrad wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 8:42 am The end all be all road of the notes are punishment argument is that it doesn't matter.

"Notes are punishment, notes aren't punishment" assume the server collectively agrees through some sort of cordyceps brain slug mind control 1984 doublethink on either side of the argument.

It means fucking nothing lol

Spend energy on things that aren't pointless.

You'd have to logoff forums to do-

Capsandi wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 4:58 am The "nut" in title meme is postmodernist drivel only popularized to ignore the fact that over half of peanut threads in 2023 should exist and most of those threads contain a significant amount of emptyposts
title 3/10

you can apply to be a judge when i post applications in december

I do hope you score well on the written portion because it's not looking good if this is why you think this is a bad title...

Itseasytosee2me wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 3:22 am

Kendrickorium wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 2:47 am page two in like 5 hours??

how exciting...

I need a title ranking.

while not particularly clever, the word DOES fit very well into felinification, though i would have preferred it if you had included some alliteration

7/10

Simply put, if I were a game admin, this would be a rule 1 noting from me. Uphold note.

Imagine keeping people sedated and in crit just to mutilate them then calling it IC. If it was IC fully heal them and remove the anasthetic.

But no this pussy ass CMO made sure they couldn't fight back.

Fuck the bitches trying to defend them.

TWATICUS wrote: ↑Sat Nov 25, 2023 9:57 pm HUH??

Who are you
You belong in the old player bin next to people like imsxz

Rule 1 is like the admin's version of the secret rule "I THINK ITS BEST FOR THE SERVER" especially with how much they are relying on it and treating anything they dont personally agree with as "being a dick"

the player/general community should be what decides admins get to invoke rule 1 on while admins get to decide what players can invoke the secret rule on...




If an admin is invoking rule 1 they need a damn good reason especially if nobody ahelped the person they are invoking this emergency power on.