/tg/Station 13

stupid ai player that should be sent to cool off, im on morgans side. there was no reason to deconstruct the library exept to trigger the curator which is covered under rule 1 as "dont be an asshole"

i'm on the curator's side, the AI just deciding to grief the library and the admin saying "it's totally ok!" is stupid

you cant call it renovating when it was just renovated 3 minutes ago

SOMEONE puts effort into a non essential role, gets shafted not only by the playerbase but by the administration as well. Just goes to show you that a baseball bat and a finger trained on the left mouse button can solve problems better than any administrator ever could.

terry seems like the worst

clear rule 1 violation, but if any admin had banned them for it you'd all be in the peanut calling them a banbot removing player agency and how they should go back to manuel, so this is just your own rich desserts

also why the fuck is terry overrun with hippie tier players? i tell you what the rot in that server comes from the admins who hang out there if you ask me.

wheres the thread

Super Aggro Crag wrote:wheres the thread

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic ... ead#unread

i dont get the minecraft part of this issue, did they put lava tiles in the library? did they obsidian bomb it with rwalls?

Bagil is worse then Terry IMO. Hop office Dosent get rushed every round on terry

oranges wrote:clear rule 1 violation, but if any admin had banned them for it you'd all be in the peanut calling them a banbot removing player agency and how they should go back to manuel, so this is just your own rich desserts

also why the fuck is terry overrun with hippie tier players? i tell you what the rot in that server comes from the admins who hang out there if you ask me.

There's a middle ground between banning the guy and saying "oh it doesnt matter you're just the librarian i dont give a fuck go away".

Shitmin. People trying to put some effort at the rp aspect in the round and the admin's response to players being complete dicks to him is basically "go play in Manuel"?

This kind of attitude is what we don't need in the servers. It's of course not even close to being enough for deadminning, but by principle it should be.

the librarian had CB to valid the vandals, but instead asked the admins to deal with minor grief / ic issue? printing books that no one will ever read isnt what i call effort, would have been a different story if the hoodlum crowd was breaking plumbing machines, botany plants or anything that actually matters ingame

What if he didn't want to escalate or if his character was pacific? Having fun in the game doesn't matter?

What a shit mentality to have

Tlaltecuhtli wrote:the librarian had CB to valid the vandals, but instead asked the admins to deal with minor grief / ic issue? printing books that no one will ever read isnt what i call effort, would have been a different story if the hoodlum crowd was breaking plumbing machines, botany plants or anything that actually matters ingame

Nonhuman curator tries to valid a fucking AI shell. AI goes "hoho cowabunga" and flash -> pickaxes him to death. Maybe the curator wins because he managed to sneak a flash out of science - AI goes "oh man you killed my shell" and bolts down the library and panic siphons the poor fuck to death.

Guy just wants to enjoy his autism project while people fuck up his workstation, gets told "bro you're not an important role it doesn't matter if you get griefed". I should remember that it doesn't matter if you grief unimportant crew members the next time admins cry at security for killing a greyshirt.

Not a good ruling so far.

dont play furry race then lol

I for one think that I honestly appreciate admin (I've never even heard of them before I think wtf) just dropping these hard truths right in guy's face
>You play the RP role, but it's not the one with cool stuff, and license to grief so I and everyone else just don't give a shit about you
>Nobody reads books so whatever
>Sure they ruined your place, but technically speaking since no one reads, it's as meaningless as any other place so you can just go someplace else, for all we care

Time to start slapping that "spawn devil" button until people learn to respect curators.

I have exactly zero idea why is devil not in rotation, while families are worse on about any front people gave devil shit for and are easily a thing.

Omni wrote:I for one think that I honestly appreciate admin (I've never even heard of them before I think wtf) just dropping these hard truths right in guy's face
>You play the RP role, but it's not the one with cool stuff, and license to grief so I and everyone else just don't give a shit about you
>Nobody reads books so whatever
>Sure they ruined your place, but technically speaking since no one reads, it's as meaningless as any other place so you can just go someplace else, for all we care

Doesn't matter if it the role is useless for everybody else. If someone is having fun in a harmless way, and someone griefs them for no reason besides wanting to annoy them, that's a rule 1 infraction.

The AI should at least have gotten bwoinked.

1. Don't be a dick.
We're all here to have a good time, supposedly. Going out of your way to seriously negatively impact or end the round for someone with little IC justification is against the rules, this also includes harassing a player OOC (Out of character). Legitimate conflicts where people get upset do happen however, as detailed in the escalation section of the rules.

One would think this is straightforward enough for people to understand, and yet here we are.

i would be more inclined with the librarian if they actually made an attempt for ic resolution instead of giving the borg several minutes to dismantle their base then ahelp.

they didnt even ask the ai to actually stop, just "why" and "what the fuck"?

So you're suggesting it's best to bite for an obvious banbaity situation than to avoid it and doing a harmless ahelp so the admin tells the AI player "stop"?

Christ, the way you guys make mountains out of molehills.

This is an IC conflict.

Put in some IC effort to resolve it before demanding admin action.

No more interaction between players. Admins are now the mediator of every interaction. Nobody is allowed to win or lose. If you made your character in a way that willingly removes some of your power in the round, it means instead of creating challenges for yourself you instead create opportunities to have an out of character resolution with the other party.

This isn't even good enough for a peanut thread man eff you guys

It's not mountain out of molehills, it's about setting a bad precedent which will carry worse consequences in the future. You allow a shitter to grief in a certain situation without even a little bwoink and what will they think about what they can do next time then? Careful with that

Oh wow and in the time I took to make that post the peanut thread is now heading in the direction of slippery slope fantastic so cool i love it

The problem is also the dismissal from the admin. "Suck it up or go play somewhere else".

Is this the new standard for admin/player interaction. Because if so god damn.

how do you get banbaited by asking an AI to stop or get a human to order it? Yes I have an issue with someone not asking a person who is wronging them to stop beyond vague one-worders, give them several minutes to continue to wrong you, and then proceed to ahelp about them doing this for the past X minutes (again not telling them to stop).

I said IC resolution, not try to kill it or even escalate the situation. Just do the bare minimum before ahelping...

The assumption here is that the AI was being malicious. Considering an admin and even the person who made the appeal agreed the library "renovations" was to make it look like the original version, its very possible the AI wasnt trying to ruin their round (or even notice the librarian was trying to edit it depending on how close it was) and could have easily been solved by the player just actually asking them to stop.

I looked at the ahelp, I would have gone with a different angle but it's not an unreasonably handled ahelp

Cobby wrote:how do you get banbaited by asking an AI to stop or get a human to order it? Yes I have an issue with someone not asking a person who is wronging them to stop beyond vague one-worders, give them several minutes to continue to wrong you, and then proceed to ahelp about them doing this for the past X minutes (again not telling them to stop).

I said IC resolution, not try to kill it or even escalate the situation.

The assumption here is that the AI was being malicious. Considering an admin and even the person who made the appeal agreed the library "renovations" was to make it look like the original version, its very possible the AI wasnt trying to ruin their round (or even noticing the differences depending on how close it was) and could have easily been solved by the player just actually asking them to stop.

i would have spent that round cutting cams and breaking APCs, probably disabling AI interact on whatever too i'm a spiteful fucker

Fuck the administration, we need to take policy into our own hands and be radically kind to one another.

I guess crowbarring floor tiles and taking down bookcases counts as a serious negative impact to a round now

Fatal wrote:I guess crowbarring floor tiles and taking down bookcases counts as a serious negative impact to a round now

for a player who wants to play as a librarian and had to dedicate his whole 40-minute round to rebuilding and preserving the library? it is.

i do agree that he should've tried harder to deal with the AI IC, but it is still a rule 1 infraction

you have the logs, you can check if it was actually fourty minutes.

i am too lazy to actually read logs

that is why i am a peanut poster only

Fatal wrote:I guess crowbarring floor tiles and taking down bookcases counts as a serious negative impact to a round now

Tread mech lost its floor tile smash over serious negative impact so yeah, you have guessed correctly.

wasnt serious, just annoying and something you couldnt toggle.

source: me, i merged it

Cobby wrote:wasnt serious, just annoying and something you couldnt toggle.

source: me, i merged it

NOOOOOOO YOU CAN'T JUST DESTROY MY SLAPDASH BULLSHIT WITH REAL FACTS

the ministry of truth does not agree with your post.

take him away boys.

"Sure sucks that those guys tore up your department and broke everything in it and then proceeded to draw attention to that. Oh well IC issue pack it in boys. Its not like you were an important role anyway."

I'm still trying to figure out when application of administrative justice applied only to important departments and station roles.

By reading the logs, curator had their library dismantled multiple times by more than one person, and for more than 40 minutes, tried to rebuild and re-arrange it, telling people multiple times to stop their shitting, and also telling the AI (who seemed to be bolting the doors so they were roughly aware of the situation) to stop them from doing this since it meant human harm (it seems they were building weapons from the library materials?).

So the AI wasn't ignorant of the situation at all, and the curator dealt with all of this ICly, until after finally rebuilding the library, the AI decided to go in and again dismantle everything for some "minecraft" bullshit reason

Given the context, how do you expect the curator to not ahelp at that point? This shitting in the library looks all very intentional, and the AI themself doing it after all what happened was the final drop. It was pretty much the definition of going out of your way to seriously negatively impact the round for someone

This isn't a "ban request" peanut for the AI player but my reasoning of why the ahelp was handled so badly, and why the admin complaint is 100% valid and it's so important for it to be upheld.

A simple "I will look into it" would've been fine, regardless of what they decided to do next regarding the other player.

it really sucks as a player to have to defend literally every aspect of your job from greytiders who are only trying to bait you into that fight that they will probably easily win and kill you, but the admin team will pretend all day like there's any other "IC" solution than having to kill literally every single person who griefs your shit somehow and then they wonder why everybody just wants to play assistant so there is nothing they have to actually defend from the swarm of bored experienced players just looking to kill anyone who shows the slightest bit of fight back.

But oh no, "Just find an IC solution" like anyone on terry would give a fuck that the AI dismantled his workplace and that the captain would ever do anything about it. I'm sure if he just engaged the AI in a good faith constructive dialogue then he could have talked them down out of their position of destroying literally everything he just rebuilt because he happened to be a non human.

If there's any administrative copout killing servers, it's this one, there are NO (ZERO, NONE, NADA, ZIP, ZILCH) other IC solutions to someone fucking your shit other than literally fighting them and beating them and most players greytiding have been playing the game four times as long as you. (except on manual)

Oh and if you really believe that the AI would have stopped if asked cobby, this is that player in ooc next round

OOC: Technokek: OOC: NamelessFairy: Hope everyone had their fun ruining what I spent the entire shift making for a minecraft joke
OOC: Technokek: yes
OOC: Technokek: yes we did

next-round ooc banter/trashtalking after the situation is done and unfixable is just that. Maybe he genuinely enjoyed ruining the final minutes of their round, idk.

Maybe he would have stopped or maybe he wouldn't, the point is that the opportunity was not provided and it was just assumed because the ahelper said "why" and they continued dismantling stuff. I would very much be on the librarians side if they made an attempt to ask first or even just demand they stop before ahelping, and until that point I would have (albeit probably in a different way) tell them to try to solve it ICly first. The fact that different groups of people trashed the place earlier has no bearing on the AI situation unless the AI was one of those people. It sucks but it happens.

I agree entirely tiding is annoying, especially when it happens repeatedly, but being grieffed previously by different participants doesnt justify skipping the portion where you ask them to leave/stop before taking action.

Maybe im out of touch because europeans act differently than the american playerbase? Terry is our containment server

I do not subscribe to the idea that its less important so whatever. If they were dismantling the console that the librarian actually required for the job id be upset in the same vein that I would not care if medical tiles were lifted up so long as people aren't trashing the beds/chem machines/etc.

I mean I WOULD care, just not to the point where im calling admins.

Remove assistant role I know you want to. Assistants add nothing to round.
(Alternatively could just make assistants have zero access)

oranges wrote:snip

You love to give us all taht shit Fruit, but from my experience majority of old regulars actually minds their business most of time, it's usually newer people who breathe and fume with grief.

Jack7D1 wrote:Remove assistant role I know you want to. Assistants add nothing to round.
(Alternatively could just make assistants have zero access)

Break assistants into actual no-jobs like accountants, HR, marketing and whatnot and have them work in shitty cubicles and producing meaningless paperwork. Make SS13 emulate the horror of daily life of the low tier white collar worker.

Omni wrote:

oranges wrote:snip

You love to give us all taht shit Fruit, but from my experience majority of old regulars actually minds their business most of time, it's usually newer people who breathe and fume with grief.

Jack7D1 wrote:Remove assistant role I know you want to. Assistants add nothing to round.
(Alternatively could just make assistants have zero access)

Break assistants into actual no-jobs like accountants, HR, marketing and whatnot and have them work in shitty cubicles and producing meaningless paperwork. Make SS13 emulate the horror of daily life of the low tier white collar worker.

2019 isn't OLD okay also just because nobody said it yet the reason assistant wasn't nyxed awhile ago was because they'd just grief as real jobs

worth trying on manuel??

Stop playing on Manuel and all is solved. Metagangs outweigh the griefers and we can just live happily ever after as a lynchmob.

Armhulen wrote:

Omni wrote:

oranges wrote:snip

You love to give us all taht shit Fruit, but from my experience majority of old regulars actually minds their business most of time, it's usually newer people who breathe and fume with grief.

Jack7D1 wrote:Remove assistant role I know you want to. Assistants add nothing to round.
(Alternatively could just make assistants have zero access)

Break assistants into actual no-jobs like accountants, HR, marketing and whatnot and have them work in shitty cubicles and producing meaningless paperwork. Make SS13 emulate the horror of daily life of the low tier white collar worker.

2019 isn't OLD okay also just because nobody said it yet the reason assistant wasn't nyxed awhile ago was because they'd just grief as real jobs

worth trying on manuel??

I know it's not old per se, duh! But I'm having trouble recalling anyone still playing regularily on Terry who started way before ssethtide, other than Lepi, Tlal and Isto.

Well, then have assistants breathe manually via emote. Perfect roleplay solution.

Omni looks like you weren't active either before ssethtide