/tg/Station 13

https://tgstation13.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29692

Obviously he shouldn't have killed the guy, but...
Isn't breaking into bridge/cap's office/armory a crime that makes you valid? So if the det found out it was the guy who broke into cap office, the guy became valid - why would he be required to revive him?

Your job is detective, that is, you detect/investigate.

Right, but on Sybil which is LRP isn't this relaxed? The detective is expected to be the guy to scan the prints of things that need scanning, which is to be fair a very small amount of time required. Outside of that why wouldn't they help sec catch and stop traitors? I see no real problem with this aside from not upholding a certain MRP standard.

Aside from that, removing the gloves specifically is incredibly suspicious and might imply bad-faith in itself, so that heavily points to him just unga-ing.

>be jannie
>spend your sunday morning writing an essay on why you banned some guy who shot a shitter who probably had it coming
reflect on your life and find the wrong turn

det revolver go brrrrrrrrrr

how long is this ban? If this is a day/week long ban it's okay.

Trigger happy dets are nothing new and nothing fun. If I understand the situation correctly (haven't read the logs) the plasmaman just gamed for some loot and wasn't caught on the act, so why round-remove them later when they aren't even doing something antagonistic.

The "fearing for my life" part is also bullshit if all the plasmaman did was run away after they were being stripped of their gloves.

the abridged version seems to be
>det finds suspect
>det tries to search him
>suspect says he's armed
>runs off
>gets owned
>det wants him borged
>he's not
>ban

terranaut wrote:the abridged version seems to be
>det finds suspect
>det tries to search him
>suspect says he's armed
>runs off after det starts stripping him (they're plasmaman)
>gets killed
>det wants him borged
>he's husked and beheaded
>ban

There, fixed for transparency in wording.

seems like the typical situation evolving out of everybody involved not understanding and communicating game mechanics and shitty decisions happening because of lack of information available to actors
aka prime ss13 stuff

>play special needs race
>break the law
>get stripped because detective is stupid
tough luck, but why are we banning stupid players now? if he went and tried to get the guy borged that's acting in good faith and trying to keep the guy in the round i'd say

Eduardo Kiefer ban #2

sinfulbliss wrote: Isn't breaking into bridge/cap's office/armory a crime that makes you valid? So if the det found out it was the guy who broke into cap office, the guy became valid - why would he be required to revive him?

Amazingly never mentioned in the original ahelp that lasted most of the round either. Also not confirmed until after the guy was shot to hell and scanned. Ahelp defendant fixates on the fact they ran all through the ticket and seems to believe this is all the justification needed. Still seems gratuitous and I'd still expect non lethals until the *suspect* had been confirmed (*confirmed*) to have committed a heinous enough crime that they're not even worth talking to and deserve outright execution.
Even the HOS notes in IC chat that they'd better "go find some proof they're a traitor" as the corpse burns (which also worries the HOS). Since the captain's stuff wasn't even mentioned until the appeal I can't even ask for the other persons POV really. (and they were honest and forthcoming about having a gun and having found it, both IC and to me in ahelps)

sinfulbliss wrote:

Your job is detective, that is, you detect/investigate.

Right, but on Sybil which is LRP isn't this relaxed?

Absolutely, this isn't about the "stay in lane" law that applies to MRP, and I tail off with "if you have a valid reason", which passes as "i'm bored" on LRP I imagine. I never asked /why/ they were doing any of this stuff as detective, only mentioned it in the appeal.
Ultimately the gun comes as part of being detective, security officers do not get lethal ballistic weapons as standard issue. IF you want to roll as detective and then play as security officer, you should do the latter in a way appropriate to a security officer, that is, grab the baton, cuffs, flash, disabler and play as per the security officer page. The detective page defines that role, the gun, and it's purpose.
Or, put another way, rolling detective just because you get a lethal (self-defence) weapon, and then going off and playing security without re-arming appropriately, is not a suitable excuse for gunning them down. If anything, worst play here is the powergaming play of only selecting detective because you get a gun, and then playing any other job with gun. None of this clears them of the "lack of non lethal approach" and is just about implicating their detective-gun's misuse further.

Agux909 wrote:how long is this ban? If this is a day/week long ban it's okay.

Should be in the appeal but probably isn't due to the lack of template. Two weeks security role ban, and as I mention in the appeal, I'd have gone anywhere from "just a note" to "1 week role ban" depending on the ticket conversation if there was a clean history. But far from clean, and if anything maybe I low balled this.

iprice wrote:

Agux909 wrote:how long is this ban? If this is a day/week long ban it's okay.

Should be in the appeal but probably isn't due to the lack of template. Two weeks security role ban, and as I mention in the appeal, I'd have gone anywhere from "just a note" to "1 week role ban" depending on the ticket conversation if there was a clean history. But far from clean, and if anything maybe I low balled this.

This is fine. I also referred to a server ban in my post and you applied none, so yeah you're being lenient.

Milthy wrote: Fearing for my life, after several warnings I fired upon them.

ahahahahahaha


With warm regards
-The prosecution

BONERMASTER wrote:

Milthy wrote: Fearing for my life, after several warnings I fired upon them.

ahahahahahaha


With warm regards
-The prosecution

*man with back to detective*
detective: HE'S COMING RIGHT FOR US

american det find american admin

iprice wrote:Still seems gratuitous and I'd still expect non lethals until the *suspect* had been confirmed (*confirmed*) to have committed a heinous enough crime that they're not even worth talking to and deserve outright execution.

This is fair, although there are situations when you don't have nonlethals as sec but need to detain someone. They're pretty rare since you can almost always grab/recharge a disabler or something, but they do happen (i.e., long space chase trying to detain a suspect and all your nonlethal ammo runs out). From the logs though this was clearly not a case of trying to detain a suspect, but a case of a detective trying to kill a plasmeme (he has a baton and if he was within range to take the gloves off he was also within range to use his baton).

iprice wrote: If anything, worst play here is the powergaming play of only selecting detective because you get a gun, and then playing any other job with gun. None of this clears them of the "lack of non lethal approach" and is just about implicating their detective-gun's misuse further.

100% agree, ban was definitely justified, but it makes more sense to treat it as a simple case of bad-faith grief rather than powergaming or misuse of the role/gun (since these things don't mean much on LRP). Hell half the time a random assistant who tided into the det office is the one with the detective gun.

If you try to strip a plasmaman and then kill him for taking issue when he doesn't let you do the thing that sets him on fire, you deserve the ban

also it's another "security kills a guy then tries to use something they discovered after the killing to try and justify their decision to kill in the appeal" episode

everyone involved in this situation got mega owned so it's a good ban