Romerol final objective removal codenut

[Rohen_Tahir]

https://github.com/tgstation/tgstation/pull/64464
"I do not like romerol and I do not like zombies"

[cacogen]

Just rework how zombies work. I agree, it's bullshit. But it doesn't mean you have to remove something fun in the process. They slash you once and you continuously lose health until you die. Then you have to sit out for what feels like an age until you revive. They suck to play as. It's like having AIDS, all you want to do is pass it on to other people out of spite for the fact that your life has to be this now and theirs doesn't. And nobody knows how to fix it (although I think you just remove an extra organ it gives you from the head or something). I think it should take more than just one slash to infect someone, personally.

[Shadowflame909]

oranges doesnt like non-scifi monsters clashing with the sci-fi

My only idea to salvage the "zombie fun" is to just make it corrupting terminator nanites, that have the outer shell of your appearance. But once they take enough damage, they look like full robots IE Combat Synths.

Ideally, they'd turn humans into simple mobs so it's more of an easy tell when the crew is being replaced by terminators, because they can only make punching effects on walls and everything.

[SuperNovaa41]

I like romerol

[Pandarsenic]

Honestly I was pretty happy to see it showing up more often. It's a great "oh SHIT" moment

[Farquaar]

Zombie hordes are fun to play and fun to fight.
There’s a reason games from playground Team Tag to vidya like Zombie Panic are fun. Changing teams when you get “hit” is an inherently interesting, chaotic dynamic.

[Shadowflame909]

[bbvideo]https://youtu.be/a3_PPdjD6mg[/bbvideo]

[The Wrench]

Sad, romerol was something unique.

[YBS]

That's right, roundsets that give everyone a chance to play are so dumb! We should just do changeling every round it is so interesting and compelling for everyone to play haha it's like amogus look dad i'm venting stop hitting me

[Bawhoppennn]

I think zombies should be rare, not something that can occur regularly. I'm onboard with it

[Kendrickorium]

slippery slope fams, they found out they could get rid of swarmers for the literal reason of "I no like this", now they know they can literally remove anything they want with no resistance

very sad, many such cases

[Shadowflame909]

I blame goofball for this. His PR before was a targeted nerf of starfury, but orange man said "starfury meh it's romerol that's cringe"

And now romerol is getting booted

Darn you goof!!! You accidentally destroyed the water tower when you targetted the walmart!

[nianjiilical]

i dont like toxins can i open a pr to remove it

[Mothblocks]

slippery slope fams, they found out they could get rid of swarmers for the literal reason of "I no like this", now they know they can literally remove anything they want with no resistance

very sad, many such cases

Surely something was removed before then

[Kendrickorium]

many such cases

[massa]

I think romerol is one of the most fun things in the game. It's also literally so fucking insanely rare to see it that you cannot seriously think it's a problem at all.

[sinfulbliss]

Romerol is a great gamemode, it keeps people in the round even after you lose and converts you to a unique antag type with unique functions.

[iwishforducks]

zombie infections should have their own separate surgery procedure that doesn't involve having to cut someone's head open and they should show up on medical huds. maybe infections should only have a 50% chance so that you never know for sure if you got infected from that one scratch.

also things like armor should have resistance against infections. bio suits should give you complete resistance. that's all.

[massa]

Romerol is a great gamemode, it keeps people in the round even after you lose and converts you to a unique antag type with unique functions.

It's also great for atmosphere and mood. Romerol outbreaks have the most intense and hopeless atmosphere besides total cult war. 10/10, rare, hard to get, doesn't ruin every single round ever, and sometimes isn't even a round ender/definitive part of the round. I've seen many contained outbreaks. They're a lot of fun plz no remov.

[toemas]

did anyone even dislike it other then some citrus guy who doesnt play the game

[CMDR_Gungnir]

Romerol is a great gamemode, it keeps people in the round even after you lose and converts you to a unique antag type with unique functions.

It's also great for atmosphere and mood. Romerol outbreaks have the most intense and hopeless atmosphere besides total cult war. 10/10, rare, hard to get, doesn't ruin every single round ever, and sometimes isn't even a round ender/definitive part of the round. I've seen many contained outbreaks. They're a lot of fun plz no remov.

Had a Romerol round earlier today, where when word got out, the surviving crew immediately rushed departures, and the shuttle got redcalled, while crew held Departures and defended it so everyone could escape.

[BlevRuz]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

[Farquaar]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

[oranges]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

[Farquaar]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

Based

[Vekter]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

The question then becomes "what does a round end for zombies look like?".

I feel like the lazy option is to end it like a cult round and have the station nuke go off, but there's probably a better way to handle it.

[Farquaar]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

The question then becomes "what does a round end for zombies look like?".

I feel like the lazy option is to end it like a cult round and have the station nuke go off, but there's probably a better way to handle it.

Rounds would end just like every other zombie game with permadeath. When every last brain has been devoured or left the station.

If one is worried about rounds dragging on too long if somebody afks in a locker somewhere, zombies could get a blood sense for the nearest non-zombie crewmember when zombies outnumber survivors by a large enough margin.

[BlevRuz]

really the one thing romerol needs is a way to end the round. its pretty much good as is besides that

The question then becomes "what does a round end for zombies look like?".

I feel like the lazy option is to end it like a cult round and have the station nuke go off, but there's probably a better way to handle it.

Rounds would end just like every other zombie game with permadeath. When every last brain has been devoured or left the station.

If one is worried about rounds dragging on too long if somebody afks in a locker somewhere, zombies could get a blood sense for the nearest non-zombie crewmember when zombies outnumber survivors by a large enough margin.

lmao, that and play the L4D game over soundbyte while fading to black

[cacogen]

Zombie is like spite for having your round ended and being reduced to something with claws instead of hands that serves no purpose but to end other people's rounds weaponised against people who still get to enjoy their rounds. It's the crabs in a bucket mentality or the scorpion and the frog fable, turned into a role. It's terrible. That said, zombies are fun to fight against. So implement Iwishforducks' suggestions and call it a day.

[Vekter]

Zombie is like spite for having your round ended and being reduced to something with claws instead of hands that serves no purpose but to end other people's rounds weaponised against people who still get to enjoy their rounds. It's the crabs in a bucket mentality or the scorpion and the frog fable, turned into a role. It's terrible. That said, zombies are fun to fight against. So implement Iwishforducks' suggestions and call it a day.

I mean, I like Romerol how it used to be - it was a reward for finding and teaming up with another traitor to pool your TC and afford it. It was also a great way for people who were out of the round to come back as long as they hadn't been debrained.

I guess I'm okay with it being moved to a late-game acquisition for prog traitor but if you're gonna do that, it needs to be more than just "make people into zambos".

[massa]

Zombie is like spite for having your round ended and being reduced to something with claws instead of hands that serves no purpose but to end other people's rounds weaponised against people who still get to enjoy their rounds. It's the crabs in a bucket mentality or the scorpion and the frog fable, turned into a role. It's terrible. That said, zombies are fun to fight against. So implement Iwishforducks' suggestions and call it a day.

I mean, I like Romerol how it used to be - it was a reward for finding and teaming up with another traitor to pool your TC and afford it. It was also a great way for people who were out of the round to come back as long as they hadn't been debrained.

I guess I'm okay with it being moved to a late-game acquisition for prog traitor but if you're gonna do that, it needs to be more than just "make people into zambos".

Why would it?

Romerol used to be easier to get. Shout your codes on comms, someone is bound to shout back, use the dropper and be an assistant and just look like part of the tide dropping shit into eyes. You've destroyed the round within the first 3 minutes. I've done this time after time.

Current prog tot takes INSANE effort and TIME to do what used to be doable off rip and was never a problem. Romerol good.

[Shadowflame909]

mfw romerol gets removed

>it gets replaced with the alien xenomorph transformation virus

"CHEFS FOOD IS TURNING PEOPLE INTO DRONES CALL THE SHUTTLE"

[nianjiilical]

its okay for things to be a little bad sometimes if they're rare, unique, interesting, and result in small flashes of exciting gameplay

ive been watching some british guy on youtube talk about mmorpg design lately and at one point he makes the argument that although a lot of modern qol in mmo games is objectively an improvement for the vast majority of people, it comes as the cost of interesting social experiences and a sense of achievement, and while the argument is pretty detatched from ss13 on a surface level i still think the core essence of "things can be a little bad or jank and still be good for the game in the right doses" applies here

that isnt to say zombies couldnt be improved on at all, just that removing something thats 60% fun but only happens 10% of the time feels a lot less good than removing something thats 60% fun but happens 80% of the time

[oranges]

its okay for things to be a little bad sometimes if they're rare, unique, interesting, and result in small flashes of exciting gameplay

yeah so when will zombies be any of those things ever.

[Pandarsenic]

One of my most memorable recent rounds was performing a desperate unZombie surgery on someone on the floor of an escape pod, another survivor in zombie crit with us, and the one with a gun who kept the zombies off us

The downed guy was being kept alive on epipens and antitoxin meds, I was doing surgery using the tools from a Syndicate Surgery "Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to" Duffel Bag, and we all managed to make it back to centcom alive

The only change I'd really make is to make Zombie Infection visible to Med HUDs

[Annihilite111]

One of my most memorable recent rounds was performing a desperate unZombie surgery on someone on the floor of an escape pod, another survivor in zombie crit with us, and the one with a gun who kept the zombies off us

The downed guy was being kept alive on epipens and antitoxin meds, I was doing surgery using the tools from a Syndicate Surgery "Don't ask questions you don't want to know the answer to" Duffel Bag, and we all managed to make it back to centcom alive

The only change I'd really make is to make Zombie Infection visible to Med HUDs

I prefer the infection being an uncertain thing personally. I agree that it should be a percentage infect chance on hit, so that there's some uncertainty as to whether or not you've been infected before the toxin damage becomes noticable, and for that to work it can't be too obvious who's infected for anyone with a medHUD. The RP generated by a deadly but near undetectable infection combined with ravenous corpses kicking down the barricade outside is superb. I've found that bitten surivors often choose to actively hide their symptoms once medbay is overran, for fear of being beheaded as an easy solution. It works super well because player OOC motivations line up perfectly with IC motivations (desperately hiding your infection because of your drive to live just a moment more and hoping against all hope that you will survive the pathogen and also because you would rather play zombie than be round removed).


Honestly, removing romerol just further reduces antag variety and seems to discourage antags that dont round remove people. I love zombies because they create a unique situation where you actually feel like a pandemic is slowly consuming the station (unlike viruses which just infect you silently from a single tile of blood splatter or someone sneezing on the other side of the station, and can't be done anything about unless you happen to be a chemist) and that forces cooperation between the most unlikely allies.
I've had romerol rounds where me and the guy i was feuding with all shift band together against the undead horde and forge an unbreakable bond in the process. I've seen truly cinematic scenes where an infected bartender holds the tides back just long enough for his customers to escape before succumbing to his injuries and rising again.

Romerol is one of the best story generators ss13 has, and it would be a such a shame if it is removed.

[Farquaar]

The only change I'd really make is to make Zombie Infection visible to Med HUDs

I don't think zombie infection should be visible on medHUDs. I've had at least one fun incredibly fun zombie experience caused by:
"Hey, are you bit?"
"Nah man. It's just a scratch. I'll be fine."

If it were visible on the med HUD, then the most interesting conflict in the whole round would have ended before it even began. Why remove a fun zombie movie trope?

[Annihilite111]

The only change I'd really make is to make Zombie Infection visible to Med HUDs

I don't think zombie infection should be visible on medHUDs. I've had at least one fun incredibly fun zombie experience caused by:
"Hey, are you bit?"
"Nah man. It's just a scratch. I'll be fine."

If it were visible on the med HUD, then the most interesting conflict in the whole round would have ended before it even began. Why remove a fun zombie movie trope?

Mate stop saying what i needed a whole paragraph for in two sentences. It makes me look bad

[massa]

its okay for things to be a little bad sometimes if they're rare, unique, interesting, and result in small flashes of exciting gameplay

yeah so when will zombies be any of those things ever.

please don't remove them they're extremely fun, they are rare to see in game, do lead to unique gameplay and rounds and are a good thing

it is unparalleled in its ability to produce desperation and a very visceral, memorable round and unique stories. for zombies, crew, antags, sillycones, everyone.

[Bawhoppennn]

its okay for things to be a little bad sometimes if they're rare, unique, interesting, and result in small flashes of exciting gameplay

yeah so when will zombies be any of those things ever.

please don't remove them they're extremely fun, they are rare to see in game, do lead to unique gameplay and rounds and are a good thing

it is unparalleled in its ability to produce desperation and a very visceral, memorable round and unique stories. for zombies, crew, antags, sillycones, everyone.

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

[CMDR_Gungnir]

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

What ways remain, then?

[Jonathan Gupta]

ok scrubs get mad

► Show Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrLequ6dUdM

[massa]

its okay for things to be a little bad sometimes if they're rare, unique, interesting, and result in small flashes of exciting gameplay

yeah so when will zombies be any of those things ever.

please don't remove them they're extremely fun, they are rare to see in game, do lead to unique gameplay and rounds and are a good thing

it is unparalleled in its ability to produce desperation and a very visceral, memorable round and unique stories. for zombies, crew, antags, sillycones, everyone.

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

Can you still get it via the uplink normally on its own with 25 tc (and I presume high rep)? (after this gets merged)

[Shadowflame909]

Can you still get it via the uplink normally on its own with 25 tc (and I presume high rep)? (after this gets merged)

No

Maybe nukies can? But I don't know it's been a lot of revamps and retooling to the traitor panel.

[Bawhoppennn]

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

What ways remain, then?

Since it's not removed from the game, we'll still see it on occasion from admins, which is what I'm happy about

[Bawhoppennn]

Can you still get it via the uplink normally on its own with 25 tc (and I presume high rep)? (after this gets merged)

sorry for doublepost but I think some way to get it in round rarely would be fine to add eventually, although we'll have admins for the time being to initiate it

[massa]

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

What ways remain, then?

Since it's not removed from the game, we'll still see it on occasion from admins, which is what I'm happy about

It is functionally removed from the game and is irrelevant unless it remains a final objective or item for purchase, and that's what we want to stop.

Getting to these objectives is very difficult for all but the most robust, and even they won't make it a crazy amount of time. Romerol or star fury are equal in fun potential. They are both good, and the objective is a good one, even if it's extremely rare and can only be gotten from that objective. Just make it like a reasonable percentage to roll for rarity.

[Mothblocks]

I will stand up for the mouse and say that this is actually true. That's why they need to be rare, and we should simply just remove the progtraitor round end ones only.

What ways remain, then?

Necrotic revival

[iain0]

Romerol's a fun race against time, especially around medical. The devaluation of TCs makes rarifying things complicated though (similarly with TC trades)

No way of ending the round? Isn't that most things? Spiders, xenos, any powerful antag in a late revs round can just take over the station and if the shuttle isn't coming then it stagnates, same as zombies. Most things don't have a "defined ending", they either get killed, or they force a shuttle call and kill anyone they can. We have admins and vote restart to deal with the few things that fall through the cracks.

Nuke when 90% of souled non SSD mobs on station Z's are zombies.

[massa]

Romerol's a fun race against time, especially around medical. The devaluation of TCs makes rarifying things complicated though (similarly with TC trades)

No way of ending the round? Isn't that most things? Spiders, xenos, any powerful antag in a late revs round can just take over the station and if the shuttle isn't coming then it stagnates, same as zombies. Most things don't have a "defined ending", they either get killed, or they force a shuttle call and kill anyone they can. We have admins and vote restart to deal with the few things that fall through the cracks.

Nuke when 90% of souled non SSD mobs on station Z's are zombies.

It will be rarer and more impressive if locked behind 1300+ rep and a lot of TC than it was before when it was a 25 TC trade? 40 could be a reasonably tall order for that rep.